Is It Just an Age Thing ?

I think it is both an age thing and the things she has had to deal with so early in life. I have been doing some research of my own and Dove is doing really great things for young girls. they have a workshop coming to Philadelphia in December. the web address is:

www.dove.com/makeadifference

I hope that this information will help you. Best of luck.

J.,

Whether it's just an age thing or not, I think that anything that you could do would be nice.

M.

Maybe you should take her along with you on a volunteer opportunity (Meals on Wheels, Food Pantry work, Homeless shelter) so she can appreciate what she has. Your 5 year old would probably get a lot out of it too. Just a thought.
Losing a father at 8 has gotta be tough. Girls look to their dads as role models for the men they choose in the future. Can your husband step in and do some things with her?

I am glad that you care about your niece and I do think that it is normal that her mom can't give her the attention she needs right now. She's licking her own wounds. When I was a desperate teen I got a lot of self asteem from getting good at tennis. I loved it and then the real perk, I got a lot of positive attention because I became the number one player on the girls team. If I were you, I would take her out on a regular weekly outing, maybe a lunch date on Saturday. Does she like being with you? Does she live near enough that you can include her in your home life maybe bake together, spend time with your kids? This way you can influence her in the right direction. See if there is an activity that she likes. I learned to sew clothes around that age. It was a wonderful creative outlet for me. Do stay involved in her life and her mom will thank you when she comes out of her grief.
Good luck
N

While she sounds like a normal teenager, your concern is understandable. I bet anything you do would be appreciated, whether or not anyone says so. Over time she might even appreciate your efforts. Including her in anything with your family, even the most mundane things, would be good since it sounds as though she does not have much of a home life. She is lucky to have such a loving Aunt. Good luck.

It sounds like your niece could benefit from some outside help; something is motivating her. But I have to tell you that she sounds a lot like me at that age. My mother says I was a pricker bush--you couldn't get near me. Years ago during one season of the old show "Roseanne" they had Darlene acting this way. (My favorite: she was lying on the couch watching tv. Her sister asked her to fold the laundry. The sister had done so much of all the housework that the laundry "is the least you can do." D. responds,"No, this is the least I can do." One day a few years ago my mom and I were watching a rerun, and we just kind of looked at each other. Suddenly not so funny because we were both remembering how I'd been.Dark, dark, dark!
But just because I found my way in life doesn't mean that I didn't need help. Phase or no phase, it would be lovely if you could help ease her pain. Good luck to you.
Martha

It sounds like she needs help.
I would invite her to do stuff with you(no makeover or movie stuff) but Do something. Climbing wall? Ice-skating? A one to one ratio for your boys might be help for you and fun for her. Are their things you would like to do that she can join you? Musical, ballet, art show? Does she have any interests?

Don't start and then stop though, she lost her dad, her mom has checked out in another way, she will be guarded for a while.
If she's being bullied have her take martial arts. JuJitsu is great but it doesn't matter. It isn't about hurting someone or even defending yourself as much as the feeling of knowing you can take care of yourself that would help. Could you or your husband drive her and make it your present to her or better, one of you take it with her? I know money is tight but you might be able to get a 2person discount. Some things are worth scrimping for.
It may seem like bad attitude but its probably misery
Don't expect gratitude or enthusiasm it would take a while for her to come out of this.
Love the suggestions to help others - there is a study that says volunteering improves mood more than anti-depressants

I can honestly say that this comes with the age of 13. With that said, if she didn't have to deal with the death of her father, and if her mother was more attentive who is also dealing with the hell of this loss, she wouldn't be as bad off as she is. If you feel comfortable enough to talk to the mother, I would try to have a sit down with her. If the mother feels like she can't deal with things herself then try suggesting counseling for mom and also for the daughter. They can have sessions together. It's hard enough to be a single parent but to become single due to a death is just too much for everyone. It hurts not just the mom and daughter but others around them as well, hence your email. Keep up the good work of trying to be supportive to this young girl and try to get the family some help. Good luck!

K. B
mom to 5 including triplets

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Hi J.. Bless you for caring! You're right, in many ways it is a stage. In my experience (two teens, one wanna be and I worked with teens for years!) at 13 the world is boring, stupid and everything is lame and everyone is "mean to me". Loosing a parent at a young age and having a mother that isn't on top of things doesn't help either. About the only thing you can do is be there to listen, and then talk to your sister (or sister-in-law) and tell her to wake up and smell the coffee! If she doesn't start paying attention to her daughter who needs her more now than ever before she will regret it. Personally I feel that teens really need their parents to be there and engaged in everything they do, everyone they hang out with and involved in their day to day lives. Sure it's a pain at times, but really, the teens who have involved parents are the ones that stand a better chance of making it though their teen years healthy, happy and successful. I know lots of people think that now that their kids are 13, 14 15 and up that they can "leave them alone at home" more without worry, that they don't need to be involved at school, or with their activities any longer. They think that they can start to live "their" lives more. I don't believe that, sometimes when I talk to my kids' friends I realize that teens need their parents more than babies do! Almost anyone can feed, diaper, cloth and entertain a baby...but teens need sooo much more! Good luck and best wishes!

My opinion is that it's not just an age thing. I agree with the suggestion for you and your husband to develop a relationship with your niece. She doesn't have to know it's because you think she's out of control. And if she has someone she can count on or go to when she's not sure what to do -- someone who can't punish her -- then she may come to you rather than her friends. You can't control the situation, but you can try to be a stable, mature, non-judgemental influence in her life.

Good luck.

Is she involved in any after school activities? If not talk to her mom and make her do something. It is so important at this age she do something. Let her choose, it does not have to be a sport, or even associated with school, It can be something with the church or really anything. My Uncle is on our local school board. He attends all the suspension hearings. Everyone of the frequent "offenders" he asks one question, What do you do outside of school, What are your hobbies. Everyone of them has NO out of school activities, other than "hanging out." These kids get "bored" and get into trouble. They bore themselves out of a life. They are depressed and don't care about anything, not grades, eventually not even about apperances. They need to have something that stimulates and interests them. Once they have this, other things will follow. You as an aunt could offer to drive her or make sure she gets to where she needs to go. If your kids are involved in activities, you know how hard it can be to get everyone to where they need to be. If her mom is a little depressed and out of it herself, it might be hard to get mom on board to suddenly start driving her daughter all over town. You could offer to step in and help. I honestly think she should sign up for 2 or 3 activites (Dance, school play, scouts, babysitting, swimming, Karate, ect..). The parents who run these activities are generally people who really care. it would place another set of parental eyes on your neice so to speak. Once she gets really involved in something she really likes, you can "use" that as leverage, so to speak, to get her grades up. For instance have her mom refuse to take her to girl scouts unless she gets an B or higher on her test this week. I think you will find her grades will come up with out even having to use the leverage. Just being involved in an activity will force her to organize her time and schedule. She will have to come home from school and get her homework done so she can eat supper and get out the door for practice. Have your husband talk to his sister and his neice. Sometimes it is hard coming in as the "in-law" with personal sugestions. Best of luck!

My daughter was the same way. Never stand up for her self so i made her take jujitzu and it has been 2 years now and she is now 15 years old and boy did it change her personality. She can stand up for herself and i made her do public comunity service to show her that other people don't have what she has and she is a GRAT kid now. I would step in and help her she is asking for help with rerally asking and shame on her mother.
Jade

I know that 13 year olds can be like that but you mentioned that her father passed away when she was 8 and that her mother is self absorbed right now. The first thing that comes to my mind is that she is crying out for attention from her mother. Maybe your husband or both of you can sit down with her and tell her that although bad things happen, she has a child that she needs to attend to and needs her. No one can do for that child what her mother can. I do think that you can let her know that you and your husband are there for her and if she needs to talk and needs to maybe get away for a little while that your there to help her. Don't push her because that will probably make it worse. Just let her know you love her and you'll be there for her and reiterate that to her. It is normal for a teenager to think that nothing is good enough and that their friends and people they know have more than them but her mother needs to spend time with her to help her realize that it isn't always about what you don't have, but what you do have. And I also think that because it sounds like she doesn't want to do anything really, that she may have some kind of teenage depression issues and maybe some from losing her father so young. Good luck and I hope that everything works out.

Part of it is an age thing. I teach 7th grade and I have a 14 yr old daughter. Also, could be related to her Dad's death. At some times of your life, you need that parent more than others. Next to toddlerhood, this is the large growth time for a child. Her hormones and body are out of control! They want to be adults but also are still kids. Kids this age are always "bored".

It is a shame your sis in law is self absorbed cause all the things your niece is doing are cries for attention. Maybe you could do some special things with her, take her out for lunch, have her over for dinner, go to a movie (even if it is a ridiculous one you would never normally go to!).

I am trying hard to be a friend and a mom to my 14 yr old. there is a fine line. I keep on top of things so we can talk. and big thing- I listen. Sometimes my daughter doesnt want to hear that things will get better- as all women do- she just needs to vent!

good luck, your a good aunt, kids like your niece need a friend!

It does sounds like a typical teenager, but she may have some issues she just doesn't know how to deal with, so this is how she acts to handle it. I think her mom should take her for some counseling - it sounds like her mom could use some help too - maybe they could go together. It is worth a try.

I think if you start to tell her mum what to do that would be out of line. I think asking her mum is she OK may not be unless she is super sensitive.

I also think asking the mum if your niece and you could go do something together sometime would be fine.

My cousin who was more like my aunt because of the age gap used to take my sisters and I out all he time. We even had sleep overs at her house. It was fun.

I would just suggest one thing though. If you do take her out, the best way to get her to open up is to not ask nay personal questions and to listen and not give advice unless she directly asks you for it. Nothing will make a person clam shut more than someone who perpetually shares their opinion without being asked.

If she shares a problem with you but doesnt ask for your advice, just ask her what shes going to do about. Ask her what do you think will happen if you do that to see if she understands the implications of her choice and then let her go do that even if you know it would never work. Also dont go telling her mum evryhting after or she'll never trust you.

If shes really negative keep trying to be positive about everyting and eventually it will rub off on her. She will start to feel positive around you.

There is nothing wrong with taking an interest in your neices life and making sure she has someone she can talk to.

No, this isn't "just a phase" it may be part of a phase, but this is a sad family system. You are right to care but in our culture, it "isn't your responsibiltiy", as you said. That said, you might get persecuted for trying to intervene. But it would seem to me that there are some gentle ways you could become a part of the process.

Get your niece's e-mail address, and send her notes periodically. You could just send little "i love you" notes. She might laugh at them with her friends, she might think you're wierd, but deep down, it's good to know someone cares enough to tell you they love you. You don't have to go overboard on it, just 2-3 times a week send her a note that says, "how's your day, I'm thinking of you," kind of thing. Maybe she will write back, probably she won't.

but it's a basis from which to start. If she has a cell phone, you culd text her periodically. Kids live by the txt msg these days. Just say "hey, how'a life?" kind of thing. quick chats, but periodic, so she knows that SOMEONE out there is noticing her.

does she live near you ? Could you invite her to come over and visit? I would build the relationship quietly first, then see if there are times she could come to visit.

When you do see her, at family stuff, whatever, find times to talk with her, ask her questions, listen to her. Praise her for things, but be sure the praise is truly honest. Kids know when you're trying to snowball them. I have a 13 yr old and a 15 yr old girls. They sometimes think I'm insane, and they roll their eyes at me and cut off conversation, but they know they are loved, they are very grounded, and they have good relationships with friends and even other adults.

Remember that no matter how involved you get in her life, you are her aunt. Her primary relationship with her dad was cut off by death, and her relationship with her mom is probably short-circuited by her mom's grieving issues which are coming out in self-absorbtion. It's hard to parent well when we are falling apart on the inside, and especially if we are looking to feel good about us by looking in all the wrong places. Even when you look in the "right places" there's a tragic hole in your life that needs to heal.

You will need to remember that you are a secondary relationship. That doesn't mean you can't be a positive element in her life, but in the end she'll need to be able to cope with her mom as well as with her life. Be there for her, but be prepared for Mom to get jealous and turn on you, complain to the family, etc. No matter how much good you do, you may become the family bad guy. It sounds to me as if you would be willing to face that in order to "save a child", and that's a good thing.

With her mom, if you can, compliment the things she does well with her child. Listen to her, make suggestions as questions, "can you tell her how you feel about her?" as opposed to, "well you need to be sure she knows you love her." there's a HUGE difference in tone, in the reception of the idea, and even if she says, "no" when you are talking with her, she will think aboutt the question over and over and she'll find a way to do it.

It sounds to me as if both of them are a bit lost. They both need love and support, and it's a huge job. Trying to show your love is WAY better than turning away because "it isn't your responsibility." KUDOS to you for caring !!!

barb

Hi J.,
I will be praying for you. This is so hard because she is not your child. But anything you can do as an Aunt with her as far as connecting with her about her loss as you have also experienced that. Also being firm with her that acting out and hating life is not going to change her father's death, and that I'm sure he would want her to live well and enjoy life. Encouraging her in regards to self-esteem obviously would be good because so many young girls don't feel good about themselves! Coming to terms with who we are, what we,ve experienced in life and where we find ourselves today and then saying, "OK What am I going to do to be the best ME i can be today! (with my good qualities, and my weaknesses, with the happy moments, and the hardships! What can I be and become if i don't fight against myself, but celebrate me and LIVE!) I'm sure this is easier said then done. That's why I find it so important to know the Lord. He is my rock and souce of strength and love, and hope! Again... I will pray for you all today! Blessings! K. W.

PS. I Work from home and love it! check out my website at www.realjobfromhome.net and I would be glad to share with you all the details of our company and work from home opportunity if that would bless you! I just noticed you said you work full time, but wish you could stay home! Have a great day! K. W.

She the only child? Some of it sounds totally normal. Has she been like this the past 5 years or more so last year?

Say the mother is self absorbed in? other kids? work, etc? has she always been like this? maybe the niece pushes her away?

The family might need some counseling to help work out some problems.

Hi J.,

I too lost my Dad at a young age I was 13. I know you said your niece is 13 now and lost her Father when she was 8. Do you remember when you where 13? I do. I remember it being the worst age for me. ( The starting of the dreaded teenage years!) Being a teenager is very hard I certainly would NEVER want to do my teeage years again! It seems to be the changing time for everyone. It seems like it is very hard to fit in at times. I remember kids picking on me or other kids for no reason but just to be mean! I guess I felt like your niece does. And YES you are exactly right now that I am should I say older and wiser that would be the BEST THING for your niece to do is stand up to the intimidating kids. There are many times later in life I felt that if I would have just stood up for myself I might have enjoyed my teenage years better.
If you and your husband have the time that would be the best for your niece. Maybe if you and her can do something together? Ask her what she'd like to do is a start and go from there. There where many times I wish I could have had someone to turn to that was willing to just listen. Sometimes it is easier to talk to an Aunt then it is your Mom.
I hope this helps?
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This is a terribly difficult age, especially for girls. Having an adult that she can talk to and trust (who is not her parent) is invaluable, particularly if you can relate to the difficulty of losing a parent at such a young age. She sounds like she needs some support and some attention - and may be potentially at risk for depression or engaging in at-risk behaviors (early sexual experience, drug experimentation, etc.) given how vulnerable she is right now. Since her mother is not focused on her, I think inviting her to do things with you (alone and with your kids) may give her a positive outlet and help her feel less alone - I imagine it must be really isolating to feel like no one likes you at school and to feel like nothing in the world is of interest. I suspect that she needs some connection with other people and to feel like she can contribute in some way. I think that engaging her in activities that are meaningful (volunteering, etc.) is a great idea. Good luck - and don't give up on her.