GRUMPY Kiddo

He might be getting to many choices, and it sounds like he knows that in the end he will get what he wants.

I believe in choices for kids, but I will choose the choice and they can pick between them. That's it, no other choice and if they don't like it they can choose to not have it. See that's a choice.

He's not unhappy, he's pushing his boundaries and he will keep pushing them for however long you and dad will let him.

I remember my son doing this at age 2 and a half. He was often pushing the boundaries and had a temper. I think now if I could go back in time I would be really strict with him. I was always trying to help him work through his feelings and help him deal with his strong emotions. I know it sounds mean but I think I would now tell him how I expect him to behave and if he did not do what was expected I would give him consequences/punishment. I would not give in. Ever. So, if he threw a fit over something (like getting the yogurt he asked for) he would get a stern, no, this is BAD behavior and I'd take him to his room for a time out. I'd not be so touchy feely as I was back then. I'd stop letting him push boundaries and I'd tell him what was up. He is 8 now and he is still trying to push the boundaries. He is a born negotiator and he still has a temper. He was pretty bad at age 5. My husband and I learned to be more strict and black and white about things but it has been a learning process for us. He is much better than he used to be due to us being more strict and due to him maturing. I'm sure it's just our son's natural personality, but it is SO ANNOYING now when he decides to be stubborn about things and try to see what he can get away with.

I haven't read Love and Logic, but I would quit giving him the "open-ended" option (the "okay, what would you like"). I think at that age, it really is about pushing boundaries and trying out their independence. At our house, if we get "I don't want grapes! I don't want cheese" we respond with "Ok, well, I guess you're not getting a snack! Let me know if you change your mind and want grapes or cheese."

You still have to deal with some pushback (I don't want THIS container of yogurt...I want the other (identical) one!), but once you quit "letting" them throw the tantrums, it usually limits the resistance.

Also, is he getting enough sleep?

Love and Logic is great, but you have to tweak any method you use to YOUR child, there isn't one cookie cutter method that works perfectly for every child.

When he tantrums a few minutes later another 2 or 3 minute timeout isn't going to cut it. "Your throwing a tantrum again, crying, screaming, yelling, etc., tells me you're tired and need to lie down in bed and rest until I come and get you." A half hour or longer with no toys, just books and stuffed animals. He may go to sleep, he may not. But he will not be allowed to simply go back to having his way. Also consider other disciplines like no TV, taking away a toy or trip to the park or McDonalds, etc. Make it something meaningful to HIM.

And as far as choices, he has too many. Give him 2 like you do and stick to it, he gets to choose from grapes or cheese, and doesn't get to add yogurt to the mix. He can choose from the two and if those aren't to his liking he doesn't get a snack, period.

He is pushing his limits and controlling you and dad, he's miserable because he needs limits, which actually help a child feel more secure. Everything isn't about a choice, a lot of the time it's "This is the way we do it. We don't throw fits when we don't get our way, we are polite even when we say no, and we have consequences when we don't behave."

BTW, many times there are no cchoice in life, it is what it is. I taught my 3.5 year old this from the beginning, though many times he has a choice. In preschool when there is string cheese and orange slices for snack, you can't choose yogurt and bananas. He doesn't have a problem with this but many of the other children do. Yet the teachers don't change the choice, the children can choose not to eat it. You're helping your son learn this lesson now will serve him well in life, as well as helping with your longterm sanity :)

I think as roles and consistent expectations are enforced his happiness will increase, as will yours.

My son did the same thing at that age. One thing is to help them calm down, and learn to communicate. They often just don't know what they want or how to express new feelings of independence at that age, so give him two options he can choose from. The whole mind changing thing is frustrating for both mom and child. I gave my child cinnamon toast (that's what he asked for), than he threw a fit and ave it to the dog, b/c he suddenly didn't want cinnamon toast, He had to quietly sit in time out for a few minutes, and then I made him something else.

Dr Sears is similar to Love and Logic. He has a great article here in helping the angry (grumpy) kids. Maybe it will give you some good ideas?

http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/discipline-behavior

(7 ways to help the angry child):
http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/discipline-behavior/7-wa...

Hi M.,
How much sleep does he get daily? 2.5 year old should be getting 10-12 hours at night and an additional 1-3 hour nap during the day. (average of 13 total hours per day)
I know my son is a total mess if he does not get enough sleep. Even missing 1 hour for 2-3 days in a row has extreme impacts on his moods and behavior. Just a thought.
Good luck!

I like Mama Twinkie's response. And I think it fits perfectly with Love and Logic parenting. You gave him options. He refused both. His natural consequence is to not get a snack right now. Deliver the consequence with sincere love and empathy, but make it clear that it's his choice.

Hi M.,

I've had a couple of experiences with my son that might be relevant.

First, my son was a very unhappy little toddler for a while there. The culprit turned out to have nothing to do with discipline or anything along those lines, though. Turns out, he had an undiagnosed sensitivity to dairy products, and that was resulting in clinical depression. I was VERY skeptical going into this, but when we took every last drop of milk/yogurt/cheese out of his diet, his mood turned around 180 degrees. If you look at him now, you'd think wow, this kid is not capable of being unhappy, ever. At 2, though, he was basically this teary little puddle, perpetually clinging to my leg.

Second, with my guy, punishment and negative incentives have almost never worked. We've tried the whole Love and Logic thing too, but any consequence I apply or threaten, he turns it right around on me. I threaten to confiscate his toys, he instantly threatens to confiscate my car keys. However, we've had great results with positive incentives. I'll say something like, "Wow, we're having a big problem with meltdowns around dinner choices. We really have to make some changes around here. How about this, if you can go for one whole week -- that's seven dinners -- without yelling even once, I will take you to the 99-cent store, and you can pick out any toy you want." This has worked amazingly, incredibly well. We get a week of trying incredibly hard, I'm out a dollar, and then a new (good) habit is ingrained. I do worry about basically bribing my son to be good, but the results are so good, and the alternative seems to just teach him to issue ultimatums all the time. So I say, keep it reasonable, make him really work for it, and then try bribing the little guy.

Finally, there was one period when my son did really well with negative consequences -- when for whatever reason he decided to have a weeklong temper tantrum at age 3. What finally worked (after I tried many things that didn't) was putting not him but his toys in time out. If he tantrumed, a Thomas train went up on the fridge, where he could see it but not reach it. When he shaped it up, the train came down. By day 2 or 3 of the trains-on-the-fridge routine, the whole tantrum at the drop of a hat thing had come to an end. This does NOT work with my son now (at age 6), but it did when he was younger, so you might give it a try.

Well first off, hugs to you. Secondly, this is fairly typical 2 y/o boy behavior. It's not that he's miserable or wants to be miserable or wants to make you miserable, but yes, it is that he's testing limits and does crave boundaries. We do Love and Logic as well and I LOVE it. I think it works but you have to be 100% committed. You are doing the right thing by making a choice for him and yes, it is to be expected that he throws a fit over it. Of course he will because you took control and didn't leave him to be control. I also agree with Mama Twinkie that when you make a choice that is final. If he throws a fit and says he doesn't want it (or whatever) then say okay, let me know if you change your mind and leave the room. Now if it's something more major than a snack, say like getting dressed and he refuses to pick shoes and you have to pick and then a tantrum occurs, then just put him in time out or in his room or walk away and say I'll be back when you are ready to put on your shoes. Don't let him pick other shoes if he calms down. He needs to understand that he needs to choose when you ask, when it's time, not after he throws a tantrum and then acts remorseful.

My tips would be to stick with the choices you offer and don't waver. If he changes his mind, too bad. This will require a ridiculous amount of patience, consistency, and calmness on your part (and husband's) but commit to it and it will get better, I promise!

Also, I agree that sometimes there aren't any choices and kids do need to learn how to cope with that too. But, for most of the little stuff throughout the day there are. In a situation where there isn't a choice, you have to be firm and consistent. It may take you longer to get places, longer to get ready for bed, longer to eat dinner for the next few weeks, but just keep on keeping on and you'll see a difference.

When kids do this, it seems to me they are looking for boundaries. Your son does not WANT you to make him happy - he wants you to set boundaries. Until you do that, he will continue to push and be unhappy.

For instance, in the above example, you should have not given him anything. You offered him a choice of two things that presumably he likes. He pushed for another option and you gave in. What you should have done is told him yogurt was not an option; choose between these two. If he refused both, then he got nothing. Logical consequence!

Try setting and sticking to some boundaries and I bet you will find your little guy is happier. Kids get their security from the boundaries we set; if we keep messing with the boundaries, you are messing with his security.

Good luck to you and your little man.

I would be looking at his diet. Make sure he is not getting any MSG, causes a lot of behavior problems in children. If that doesn't work try taking out dairy for a few weeks, then try gluten. It could also be artificial colors and flavors.

As parents we sometimes have to become dectectives. You can not rely on only one book to answer all your questions. Do more reading and more research.