Need Help with 3 Year Old Boy - Want to Use Positive Discipline but Not Sure How

Is this a food thing?
I remember when my (now 21 year old) son was 3 and 4. He pretty much lived on carbs (bread, pasta) and fruit.
I know at the time I didn't think it was the BEST diet, but really, he was smart, happy, and most importantly GROWING so I didn't worry about it too much.
We didn't do candy, soda or chips, and fast food was a rare treat, so I felt like it wasn't a battle worth fighting.
He wasn't filling up on junk after all, because there wasn't any junk to be had.
I'd make breakfast, the works, eggs, sausage, potatoes, etc. If all he wanted was toast and jelly? Oh well, that's all he ate.
Same with dinner. Just buttered noodles, no meat or tomato sauce? Okay, I'm not gonna force feed you kid.
He grew out of it eventually, like most do. He's in college now and eats almost EVERYTHING.

A couple of things to consider:

Have you had a chance to talk in depth with his preschool teachers and get them to show and tell you the techniques they use with him? They can be a great resource for you. Be aware, though, that a kid can be good as gold in preschool or daycare and tougher to handle at home; at home they relax, and don't feel as much that they need to "behave" because, truly, familiarity does breed contempt, and you are familiar. That's good -- he relaxes with you -- but it also can mean that he simply is on his toes for good behavior more when with other adults. It's pretty typical.

Have you revisited the 1-2-3 Magic program since you used it without your daughter? I'd look at it again and see if there are elements you might want to emphasize differently with him.

Time outs: Never, ever in a child's own room! That is his own haven; his own personal cool stuff is there. Time outs need to be in a totally boring and bland place: A bottom step (IF he can't see the TV or toys from that spot). I used to use the end of our hallway, which , with the bedroom doors shut, was utterly bland--no sight of TV, no sight of the rooms, just walls and shut doors. Also be sure his time outs are no longer than three minutes; the rule of thumb is one minute per year of age or the kids get so restless they lose all sense of what they did to deserve the time out.

TV "supernanny" Jo Frost has books with very good time out programs and tips in them.

When he melted down over food, was he possibly already just so hungry, his blood sugar dipping so low, that the meltdown was going o happen no matter what? Does he get cranky when it's close to mealtime but he hasn't eaten for a while? He may need more small snacks and small meals--some kids' issues are more about needing a little more food at the right times than really about power plays.

He bangs "all over the house" with a spatula: Create a safe spot where he is allowed to bang all he wants. "Look, here are these pots on the floor in this corner of the kitchen. It's your drum set. You can bang here all you want until the buzzer goes off and then it's time to (do something else specific and distracting)." Let him bang without scolding him at all. When he moves to the next thing to do without fussing, praise him a LOT. If he moves away from his special bang the drum spot and bangs on the walls etc., warn him: "This isn't your drumming spot. That is. We do not bang on the walls (or table, or whatever). If you can go to your drums by the time I count to three, you can drum some more, but if you touch the wall again, the spatula is gone." Then make it real: He whacks the wall, you take the spatula, he will go nuts the first few times -- plan how you will handle that: Time out or taking away something else after a warning to stop wailing? If he says "yes" and stops banging the wall, praise him, again!

He throws toys: One warning, always a clear warning so he has a chance to shape up, and tell him the consequence when you warn. "We do not throw toys. Pick up the bear and put him in the red toy box. If you throw again, the bear goes into time out." Be very specific -- the bear, in THAT box, because "pick up all those toys" will overwhelm him instantly and he will rebel. Thank him if he does it. If he throws again: Bear time out. That means you take the bear long enough for it to hurt.

He is only three and remember that he doesn't have full control over himself, or enough words to express himself even though he is learning to"use his words" and so on. Consistency is key, letting him know that when he does X, then Y will happen each and every time over and over and over. It takes time for kids to connect doing X with the unpleasant consequence that is Y so do not give up. If need be, tag team this with your husband as much as you can so that (a) dad knows the drill and you and dad are totally on the same page and do the same consequences every single time and (b) your daughter can be removed to go do something with whichever adult is not handling son at that moment. That takes your daughter away from your son's example so she won't ape him and also gives her positive attention. She copies him and "regresses" so that she to can get all that negative attention she sees him getting. Young kids love attention -- and if it's negative instead of positive, that's OK with them.

Yeah, those 3 yr old boys are full of spit and vinegar!

Really, it sound like you are really trying to do the right things, except for the eating. it just takes an incredible amt of consistency to get through the threes. For me, this was the hardest age, even the teen yrs.

Watch a few Suppernanny shows and see what kind of consistency is needed. Crazy, right? Now do that for a year while they fight you tooth and nail! Then again but in a more verbal way in the 4th year. If you get those two yrs right, it's smooth sailing. That ought to motivate you to steel your backbone and have the patience of Job for making him mind. Because if you only do this job half way, your life together will be a power struggle from now on.

You don't have to get angry, it's best if you don't, but you have to endure their fits if it takes all day. If he literally misses a few meals, you will have made a believer out of him and that's exactly what you want. A believer.
He is asking where the limits are, the boundaries, who's the boss?

That's not the worst list I've ever seen for eating habits. Try giving a multivitamin, it stimulates the appetite and forces them to expand their palate. Offer a variety of protein. Let him "help" boil eggs or make a peanut butter sandwich or dip a banana in peanut butter or freeze yogurt or mix fruit In cottage cheese. At Dinner Fix him a plate with everybody else and ignore him.

Get up when you are done and put everything up. Expect a breakdown. Be totally calm. Use your words. No matter how many hours, do not give him the graham crackers till he eats what you have fixed. If it takes all day. It won't but you will have won a victory that you will only have to fight about twice more.

You just thought you were a grown, patient woman! This is the proving ground for many before you!

3 year olds are tough! and yeah, they tantrum. part of it is just getting your own head right, ie realizing that an occasional meltdown is part of his processing as he figures out how to navigate his world, and that your own gentle but firm boundaries are helping him do that. too many parents seem to feel that letting their boundaries get all squishy is 'nice' and 'loving' when it's actually confusing and frightening. part of the reason that littles tantrum is because they're overwhelmed at having so many choices. knowing the rules and simplifying their selections makes it easier on everybody.
you're better off declining food battles altogether. what happened in your scenario is that you 'taught' him that if he stands his ground he 'wins.' a better choice would be to either let him have a graham cracker and decline the entire argument, or take them entirely off the table, ie the only time graham crackers are EVER offered is after dinner. 'something healthy' is pretty wide-open for a little guy. it might be better to say 'no graham crackers now, but you can either have the pizza i've got ready (which really isn't all that healthy either, is it?) or some grapes.'
you really don't want to get into food fights. either be a parent who keeps healthy snacks always available and doesn't ever say 'no', or one who insists on a schedule of good meals and snacks and never caves, but don't wallow around in the middle.
as for getting dressed, i myself had no patience for that. my boys got dressed when i told them to, and at 3 sometimes that meant i was wrestling a shrieking starfish. i don't necessarily recommend that, but they sure never had the option to decline. if you are a gentler mom than i was you could start with plenty of time so that if he's stubborn you can have him sit in the time-out chair for a few minutes to think about it, and after a few minutes if he's still mulish maybe a few minutes more. but do NOT let him continue to play. it's either cooperate, or sit.
give him a place where he CAN bang with the spatula, and if he doesn't stay there, he loses the spatula.
hitting his sister means he gets deserted by both of you, while your daughter gets positive attention from you.
don't be swayed by the hysterical laughter or tears when you put him in time-out. and do keep time-out somewhere other than his bedroom.
stay calm, firm and consistent, mama. and enjoy it! for all the storms, i find the 3s to be an utterly enchanting age.
ETA a thousand flowers to HLooloo!
:) khairete
S.

I have a 3yo who would like to eat ONLY his crackers. They're good organic whole grain crackers, but they're still crackers. Also, we're big on using words at our house. He is super cooperative and responds well to logic, but when he's hungry or tired, he can be a beast. He will refuse anything and everything all while crying and asking for the exact thing that he says he doesn't want. I don't like it for him, but the noise doesn't bother me. In fact, when he's having a loud crying fit, I walk away, sometimes going to my bedroom and closign the door. I let him know that I don't want to hear all that and that when he's finished, he can come on to me and we can talk about it.

When he refuses to eat something on his plate (because his tummy is full, according to him) but wants snack items or a drink, I tell him that he may not have those things unless he eats his dinner. IF he gets so upset--and he sees that I am sticking to my guns ("You don't have to eat all of it, but if you eat none of it, then you won't get what you're asking for.")--then he will calm down and ask how many spoons of the food he HAS to eat. I let him have that. I give him a number, sometimes he'll try to negotiate it down, I sit with him while he eats it. THEN, if he still wants it, he may have the thing that he wants. He's met my condition.

We had such an experience yesterday evening. He had a snack on the way home from school, so when he asked for crackers at home, I told him that he could have them after dinner. I explained that the crackers were his snack and that he'd already had a snack. He tends to respond well when I explain things like that. Yesterday, he had a FIT. (This week has been rough on his sleeping pattern, so he's been kinda tired all week.)

First off, he knows that my NO means no. I do not change my mind based on his non-compliance. Ever. When he cries those loud yells, I tell him that that will ensure no [crackers] later. So not only will he not get what he wants right then, but if he has a fit about it, he also won't get it at the next juncture. He quiets down. Or not. I don't stop him from expressing his frustration or anger. If he's on the bed and wants to roll over and kick, I don't stop him. He actually did that for the first time last night, and I knew that my baby was super duper tired. While he was venting, I was getting undressed to lie with him. I gave him a hug and talked to him and held him until he went to sleep. I knew that he'd be super hungry this morning.

I let him know that I can tell that he is hungry and/or tired, and I offer him a hug. I sympathize and empathize with him. Once I have his attention and he's back in his right mind, I talk to him. I explain what's happening and why, and I remind him that it's Mommy's job to help him to learn things. We've had casual conversation about his being new to the world and not knowing everything or being big enough to do certain things. I take those opportunities to explain that we're here to help him learn those things so he can do them for himself someday, so he knows how to think through things for himself, etc. When he's upset, I address his immediate need and then remind him of these prior chats.

It's energy-consuming, but it teaches him that we expect him to think and speak to address his issues, not act out physically and not spend a lot of time crying in frustration. He also gets lots of hugs and kisses. Many people don't appreciate my method, but I believe that it is effective in all the ways that I want it to be. There are some times when I need him to just do what I say in the moment, but--when I really think about it--more often there is time for me to explain what and why and help him to process it. I really don't mind shifting what I'm doing in order to give him information that he'll take with him. Not only will he remember the information, but he'll also remember that I valued him enough to look him in the eye and use my words to help him understand. His soul will remember that. It kinda makes up for the times when I simply don't have it in me to slow the presses.

I guess my point is to know your child. Know what motivates him, how he expresses his emotions. He certainly knows you--which buttons to push to get you to cave. He's learning more the value of using his words because he's having to do that out in the world. Stick to your guns and make him use them at home. Be consistent; my son told his father (when his father was asking me something and I said no), "Daddy, Mommy's no means no." We joked about that, but he was serious. I've explained to him that he earns the right to "get things that [he] wants" when he "does the right thing". He knows the two categories of "the right thing" and "the wrong thing", and understands that doing the right thing gets him the things that he wants. I let him see, too, that I don't forget. When I tell him today that his behavior has earned him no "thing that he wants" tomorrow, I stick to that. By that same token, when I give him something that he wants, I remind him that he has earned it.

That's my answer for "positive discipline". It takes so much energy, but you've also got to show them that they are making these choices. Other people will laugh and shake their heads and tell you not to explain yourself to a child, that you are in charge, etc. You just have to remember what your role is in your kids' lives. Is your goal for them to end up knowing who's in charge? Or do you want to teach them how to think for themselves and problem-solve? Oh, and sometimes you will just have to remember that three is three is three. They want what they want, and sometimes when you can tell that it means so much to them that not getting it right then will be heart-breaking, you have to just let them have it. One night, after putting my 3yo to bed , he begged me to let him get up and go to the other room with his father. I could see in his eyes that he needed that. Then, it occurred to me that he hadn't had a chance to do that. We got home and went straight to dinner and bath and bed. He didn't get any play time. I said this out loud to him, and I could see that he was grateful that I understood. I set a timer for about 10 minutes or so and told him that he could use that time to play. He gave me a kiss and thanked me. When the alarm went off, he came back, removed his shoes and climbed into bed.

Be in each moment. Consider what he needs long-term, but meet his needs in the moment, and don't worry about what the people around you are thinking. Your daughter will see that you are being consistent and that you are tending to his and her immediate needs. Sometimes that will feel messy. Embrace that inevitability, and keep moving.

If they are a part of the decision they are usually less likely to try to assert their independence by throwing a tantrum. Try heading off the problem by offering choices before you cook like "do you want noodles or rice tonight?" or input for meals like "what vegetable do you think we should eat with dinner tonight?".

Also try asking for his 'help' in the meal preparation, and then give him as much independence as you can stand. At three he can pour his own milk, set his plate, etc.

We have a snack shelf in the pantry and one in the fridge where ours can pick their own healthy snacks: dried fruit, applesauce squeeze packs, whole wheat crackers for the pantry, and cheese, cut up fruits and veggies, milk boxes, ham or turkey cubes in the fridge. We had this system already for our 5 year old and our 2 year old now picks out his own snacks too. They are pre-packed by us in small zip locks or tupperwares.

That might help with your 5 year old as well. :)

ETA: We do use 1-2-3 Magic for our 5 year old and I use more natural consequences for the 2 year old (like if he hits his sister, his sister gets up and leaves the room and I usually go with her).

Don't you see in your example you gave in? He didn't want pizza and you never made him have pizza. How is toast healthy? He waited until you calmed down and then got what he wanted.

So he learned exactly what you taught him, if I wait till she calms down I can ask for toast and not eat the pizza. So next time he doesn't want to eat something he knows if he has a fit, calms down, asks for something he likes, he will get that and his crackers.

Keep you eye on the ball, it seems clear he is.

He is running the show, and it is your job to stop it. You gave in and let him eat toast and graham crackers? So now he has learned that if he just keeps pitching that fit you will give in. Offer healthy foods and if he does not want them then let him be hungry until he does want them.

I know that is not necessarily a "more positive" approach, but sometimes kids need more then praise. To be more positive make sure you praise when he does good, but nip the bad in the bud.

A time out isn't suppose to be punishment.
It's a time (a break) to divert away from what ever he shouldn't have been messing with.
Part of this is just being 3 - it's an exasperating age.
He's doing a lot of growing and he will out grow it eventually.
A lot of this can be handled by you anticipating and steering him into acceptable behavior.
You don't tell him what he CAN'T do - any human being (no matter how old) will try it just to see what will happen.
You tell him what he CAN do,
Sometimes give him a choice between 2 acceptable alternatives (but don't overwhelm him with too many choices).
As far as getting dressed goes - what would happen if you carried on with what ever while he's in his pajamas?
3 yr olds often don't have a sense of shame yet - they don't care or know the difference between pajamas and play clothes.
Alternately - have him sleep in his play clothes.
After bath time, put him in clean play clothes and he can wear that till his next bath time.
He's not going to be like your daughter - you are going to have to take a different tack with him so approach the problem sideways and eventually you'll find what works with him.

It sounds like the day care teachers have an effective way of giving directions, encouraging positive responses and requiring obedience. Perhaps you could talk to them privately, or observe how they interact with the children, since it seems that your son respects them.

Telling a 3 year old that he needs to eat something "healthy" is like telling me I need to figure out the atomic elements in my food before I can eat it. I understand "healthy", as do you, but to a 3 year old, if the cat didn't spit it out or it isn't covered with dirt then it's healthy. Give him appropriate choices: "if you're hungry, you may choose these apple slices or these orange segments." And purchase some "healthy" crackers (whole grain, little or no added sugar, no additives, etc) so if he wants crackers, that will be ok. Make sure the pasta is whole grain (Barilla makes a white whole wheat pasta that looks like regular pasta but is full of nutrition), and make sure the pizza is also healthy - no frozen junk with sugary marinara sauces. If you don't already, make homemade dough and have your son help you pat out a circle of dough. You can make a basic dough and keep it in a plastic bag for 3 or 4 days in the fridge and just take out a small amount when you need it. It just takes a few minutes to make it and your son might enjoy that.

If it's time to get dressed, set a timer, tell him he may choose the t shirt with Batman on it or the one with Superman or whatever. Give him some freedom and set the boundaries. Don't say "get dressed", say "choose one of these shirts and either your blue pants or your brown pants and beat the timer." Then lots of praise and positive attention ("thanks for getting ready and beating the timer! I love that Superman t shirt. You look big and strong in it!").

Yelling at him is rewarding his unacceptable behavior with attention (kids don't care if mom is crazy nuts and yelling, or laughing or crying - it's all attention). Stay calm and ignore the bad behavior and reward the good behavior with your attention, smiles, hugs and conversation.

Back to Basics Discipline by Janet Campbell Matson.

I say leave the positivity for 99% of your day and be firm when necessary. Discipline moments do not have to be pleasant and if they are it won't deter future episodes. The more effective you are, the less often you will have the bad behavior to contend with. I'm one of the few parents I know in my immediate peer group who uses old fashioned discipline (almost never because my kids are super good at 8, 6 and 4), and its ironic, because people have commented before that I must be a "positive parenting" type based on what they see: Loving, positive relationships, respectful, happy kids who rarely freak out. I'm a single mom of three, I take them everywhere, we have a blast, we laugh, we attend mature events, we have fun. But that's only because of a zero tolerance policy on tantrums and bad behavior. I even had one day-care worker say to me, "I love how you interact with your kids. So supportive and loving. I can tell they've never been spanked (??!assumptions much??!). They're such nice gentle kids and so kind." Inside I was like "(choke) BA HA HA HA!! Yeah, they're just naturally like that because I'm so kind and gentle all the time!!!! NOT."

We have our bad days like anyone, but if you keep discipline firm and calm and CONSISTENT, you'll need it less. Don't let things drag out until you're frustrated and yelling, act immediately. The earlier you nip it calmly, consistently and effectively after only one warning, the more quickly their impulse control develops and you'll prevent a lot of headaches. You'll still need refreshers as challenging phases come and go, but in general you'll be much better off. For difficult kids, sometimes positive parenting can lead to a very negative experience. If it works, great, but if it isn't working, don't eliminate your options. I know families having a very hard time with positive discipline-and by hard time I mean awful and disrespectful kids trampling their loving and kind parents. Their kids aren't happier or more confident with healthier psyches for it. It's ok to be downright punitive at times. It really is. Some kids need it.

As for food, my kids don't have to eat anything they don't wan to-actually not true, I do force them to eat vegetables but for the most part-if they don't eat it, they wait until next meal, No alternative food. And no fits or bad behavior at table. Shift the consequence to his behavior, not to what he is or isn't eating.

Re-read 1-2-3 Magic.

Also a Parenting with Love and Logic class would be extremely helpful.

If you can do some counseling it may also help you to explore what he is triggering in you. There is a new book out called The Conscious Parent by Shefali Tsabary. She talks about how children are our triggers for all of our unfinished business. Your own unhealed wounds are getting in the way of you disciplining effectively and some counseling could really support you in finding what those wounds look like and healing them.

What you're doing isn't working so stop.

You don't sound like you're doing age appropriate things. A 3 year old really doesn't have the cognitive ability to do time out. Time out is not allowed in child care. It's punishment and that's not allowed while the kids are in care.

Time away helps. BUT if the kiddo isn't using the time correctly he needs you to sit his hiney on your lap and hold him until he calms down.

There are many ways to do this. Call around to mental health facilities and find someplace that will teach you MOPY or some other form of non aggressive restraining.

People will tell you not to give kids choices. Why? Because they are little
& have no thoughts or actual wants? No, they do have wants & desires
developing.
The key is to raise your child to be a well behaved (but not dominated by
an iron fist) contributing citizen. And if you do, they will be.
Give 2 easy choices like do you want chicken nuggets & mini carrots or
macaroni & cheese (the healthy kind) & tangerine slices?
Something to remember, their tastebuds change every 6 months or so.
So what they may have liked 6 mos ago may no longer taste good to
them. Instead of forcing them, roll with it & find new, healthy choices to
give.
If you give your kid choices, you're still the parent.
Also, remember their tummies are small so they can't go 6 hrs in btwn
meals like we do. Give them healthy snacks in btwn meals. Sometimes
Goldfish crackers are okay.
When you do give a timeout, set a timer. It's 1 min per year of their age
so for your 3 yr old, you set a timer for 3 mins. Then go to them & say
you were in a timeout for hitting your sister, give them a hug & let them
off timeout. As they age, (4 & def 5), they will be able to recite back to
you why they were in timeout. Be sure to put them in a safe place.
Give spoken recognition w/a smile when they do something right to show
they did do something right & how you're happy & appreciative of it.
People will learn w/negative & positive reinforcement but you get better
results w/positive. Think of you in the work place. You'll respond to both
but you will excel w/positive reinforcement.
Also, redirect his attention at this age. For example, when he is throwing
toys, take them out of his hands & say smthg like "don't throw" look
here's your blocks.
Things will get better & improve w/consistency.
You can teach & raise a good child w/o being a tyrant. My parents did. I
still knew wrong from right. Did a make a few mistakes along the way?
Yes....operative word......a few. Nobody is perfect but you want the
mistakes to be small scale & not huge mistakes.

Ignore the negative, reward the positive. If he has a fit, let him have his fit and ignore it. If he hits his sister, either ignore it (it probably doesn't hurt her, and giving the behavior attention only reinforces it), or calmly put him in his room till he can be nice.

And only give him the food you want to give him. When he gets hungry enough, he will eat what you give him.

A special ed teacher friend of mine has used the positive discipline approach (reward positive/ignore negative) on way more difficult cases than your son, with amazing success. But you have to be consistent.