Can a Nonrelative Go to Court Without Me Being There and Take Custody from Me?

J.? I have been there, where you are. My daughter has been there too. She lost her kids and they were adopted out. She screwed up by not listening to me on some of these things but the ONE THING she didn't do was do everything the judge ordered her to do. So they listed off the things she hadn't done every time she went to court. They didn't care about the things she had done/was doing. They fixated on the things she wouldn't do. So they terminated her parental rights on 3 of her kids and put them up for adoption.

You have to do whatever the court asks you to do. Even if you have to get a second job to afford to pay for it out of pocket. You just have to prove you are committed to having your children home and that you are working on bettering yourself so you can be a good parent.

They came up with a plan of 8 things she had to do. She couldn't do #1, a psych eval, because it cost hundreds of dollars and SoonerCare wouldn't pay for it. Since she couldn't afford that she didn't do some of the others. She had a full time job. She had a rental and bought stuff at garage sales and thrift stores and got stuff on the 100% free pages in her community on FB.

The court forms an opinion about you on how you look how you speak, what your level of vocabulary is, what you do, and what you say. You have to be on your best behavior or they will dislike you. You are taking their time and they want to get done with this hearing.

You need to go to court. YOU need to look, to the judge, like you have it all together. Do NOT go in old jeans and a tee shirt. You are presenting yourself and you need to look presentable. Do not dress up unless you dress like that most of the time. I wear dresses and slacks all the time. I wouldn't be uncomfortable or feel out of place nor would I look like I tossed my clothing together in an attempt to look better. You are on trial. Not the foster mom.

ONE THING, if your hair is dyed and cut, your nails are salon perfection, and you have on jewelry and other things that you obviously have spent your money on then you don't look like you care about your kids. Sorry but that's just how the court looks at it. You will be judged on that. Don't waste money on superficial things. Save your money to get on your feet.

My daughter went to court with her hair freshly streaked, her nails professionally done, makeup to the max, a couple of pieces of jewelry that were costume stuff but looked nice. The judge looked at her and told her that she obviously had money to spend on trivial things like salon visit so she couldn't care that much for her kids, or she'd have spent that money on them.

When she had supervised visitation with her kids the foster mom would bring them to McDonald's. My daughter would go to visit, not spend money. She could barely buy food for herself and she did NOT have money for Happy Meals. She wanted to see her kids and spend time with them. They wanted to eat then run off and play on the equipment. Bad place to do a visit in my mind.

But anyway, if you have visitation and it's supervised they are going to be watching everything you do. If your at a food place and you don't offer to buy them food they will report back to the judge that you didn't even care enough to feed them while visiting. If they run off to play on the playground and you sit and watch then you don't interact with them at visitation. Ask for visitation to be at a place with limited distractions. Not so few that you can't play with them or sit and talk to them while they play, just interact with them as much as possible. See if there is a visitation room anywhere around.

If I were going to court this week I would wear a nice top and slacks. I'd also have on clean nice looking shoes with my hair brushed and maybe a little bit of makeup on.

You speak to the judge. You don't get pulled into an argument with her. You don't start off defending yourself to them. You sit quietly. The judge will dislike you if you show a temper, if you call her a liar, if you do anything that makes YOU look like the person she is describing. You are on trial. Not the foster mom. One show of temper or a rudeness and the judge has his mind made up, she's right and you're bad. Don't fall for it. You are on trial. Not the foster mom.

"She" is a foster mom, the court has already investigated her and found her to be perfect. So anything she says they are going to listen to. YOU have to be the opposite of what she says about you. YOU have to be polite, put together, clean, and able to show documentation that you are working and saving money and more. Overboard proof. She has to only say you do something for them to believe her. She has credibility and you are a mom that dropped off your kids and left. So you have to be a quiet, responsible, calm person that only addresses the court. Acknowledge your mistakes and show how you've overcome them.

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You sit back and let her have her say and then you come and say:

"Yes, Your Honor, I was in a bad place back then. That's why I entrusted my children to her. I knew she would care for them and I wouldn't be putting them in the bad situation with me. I just moved back to Kansas and I'm working now. I am staying with my sister until I get enough money saved to pay deposits and buy the things I need to provide for my children. I do understand that I'm not ready today to have my kids with me full time but that time is coming. I love my children and want to be a good mother and provider for them. I want to have time with my children. I have been clean and sober for XX months and I go to meetings every day/X days per week, sometimes both lunch time and in the evening. I want to be clean and sober for myself but mostly I want to be clean and sober for my kids. I want them to see that I turned myself around and that we can become a family again some day.

I need to rebuild a relationship with my children and I'm asking this court to allow me liberal unsupervised visitation, both overnight and multiple times per week, and to do whatever the court requires me to do to prove myself worthy to have my kids back in my care. I will take parenting classes, go to counseling, do what the court asks but please I want to spend time with my children.

If I am to have supervised visits for now please consider that am trying to reestablish myself Your Honor and I even though I am willing to do supervised visitation I cannot afford to pay someone. I want to save every penny I can. I ask that it be an independent person, someone that would be objective, such as a CASA volunteer be assigned to our case and they supervise the visits without the foster mom being present.

Thank you Your Honor."

You WILL need to address any formal charges or time served so that you can show that you are no longer doing the things that caused those consequences.

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Did the two of you go to court to arrange this with your older then later on your younger children? Did the state place them with her? What are the circumstances?

If you just went over and dropped them off then you basically abandoned them and that's bad for you. She can say you dropped them off and never came back until now. The court is going to give her what she wants because you have to prove your kids should go home with you. She can say she has no idea where you've been or what you are like now and she fears for the children.

Show income statements that you are employed. Show that you are working towards getting on your feet by being on waiting lists for low income apartments or housing authority or anything.

YOU must prove you're not a homeless leach on society that is just a step away from being back on the streets and dealing drugs, isn't that what she's going to say that you are like? YOU have to prove you are not.

The proof lands on you. So you have to prove beyond a doubt that you are doing what a parent needs to do. Provide a home, food, clothing, care for, and more for your children.

If you don't PROVE to the court these things then she will be awarded custody/guardianship.

I suggest you call the court clerks office and talk to them, tell them that you found out you have a court date but don't have an attorney and need to find out exactly how you need to proceed. Ask them what the laws are concerning custody/guardianship/etc...Guardianship is temporary, once you are on your feet, have your own home with plenty of bedrooms for your kids with you having one yourself, etc...and food in the house with a stable income then you can file for the guardianship to be terminated.

I would like to say that you might do the supervised visits. If your kids are with her through the state they will have to provide a supervisor. If you and she just have a verbal agreement then you might end up having to pay someone, a professional that does this for people, out of your own pocket.

They will testify in court as to how you parented your children, what you said to them, how you spoke to them, did you play with them, feed them if they were hungry, etc...they will tell every little thing you do. You are on trial. Not the foster mom.

There's a lot of missing information here, so it's hard to help much. But it sounds like you have had a tough time for many years (4 children) and it's not much better now. You still don't live on your own, so there's not much room for 2 (or 4) children in your sister's house. Are you working? Can you support the children, including day care and medical care? Have you provided any child support over the years? You say it's been 3 years, but you've been trying to get them back for 1 year - does that mean you've seen the children (the 2 youngest and maybe the 2 older ones as well) in the past 3 years? You say this woman who has cared for your 4 children has "like 10 other kids" - it sounds like she has a huge heart and has provided stability for your children (who are being raised in the same home - not always possible in foster care!) as well as others' children. You should be on-your-knees grateful to her at every turn.

I have no idea what "priority mail" has to do with custody. Are you saying you received notification via a certified letter? If you get something with a court date (and your should), then you can attend and plead your case. But you really should have taken parenting classes and done other things to show the court your intent and your progress. Meantime, if these children do not know you or don't know you well, it would be very unwise to just fight this. That she is offering visitation is an excellent sign. Whether it's supervised or not may have to do with your past but also whether she (or the authorities) think it's likely that you would take the kids. It's not always about them being harmed. And what do you think the effect would be on the 2 older kids if you only took "the babies"? How much rejection do you think children can stand?

So, without much info at all, the best we can do is urge you to contact legal assistance or ask the foster mom to go into professional mediation with you. Good luck - hoping you get things worked out for everyone's benefit.

"Ive moved in with my sister and her husband becuz me and sis have been seperated for two long. But i take care of my self.".

Um, no - it doesn't sound like you can take care of yourself.
When you have a job and can pay for your own roof over your head (and pay for feeding, clothing and sheltering your kids) - THEN you'll be able to provide for your 4 (if I got the count right) kids.
This non relative (foster parent?) sounds like she has your kids best interests at heart.

She's going to court in 2 days? Do you have an attorney? You need to be in courtroom, preferably with an attorney.

I don't understand the arrangement you have with her. She doesn't have legal custody or guardianship over them? How is she able to make legal or medical decisions on their behalf? It sounds like she's going to claim that you abandoned them. And, by reading your post, it sounds like you did. You've tried to get them back for the past year, but that's still.2 years that you weren't involved in their life. You're going to need to prove to the court that you made an active effort to get them back and were prepared to parent them. (Most people aren't going to believe that the reason you moved in with your sister is solely because you want to reconnect with her. You can do that by phone.)

This must be so difficult for you but please look at this from your kid's perspective. You lost custody of the two oldest for a reason and now the two youngest have basically been abandoned for three years. Three years in the life of a child is a really long time. Your kids are together and you must know this is a safe environment where they are well cared for otherwise you would never have left them there in the first place.
Also you are a grown woman and should have your own place and be able to provide financially for your kids. To me it doesn't sound like you are ready.

You need to find out the child custody laws in the state your children reside in.

But if a parent hadn't seen her children in three years? Yes, another person may take custody of them. There is a legal process one most go through to gain custody. It sounds like you are stating that your children have become wards of the state and have been placed with this person, and now she is legally filing for full custody.

If you haven't been able to obtain a steady job or housing in three years, the children may be better off with someone else. Especially if that somebody is keeping your children together under one roof.

I hope this is not a real question.

Additional....I hope this is not a real question because it is concerning that you are more focused on what can be taken from you then what welfare is currently being given to your children by others.

You don't say what was going wrong in your life 3 yrs ago. Drugs? Abusive boyfriend?
Drinking? Jobless? Whatever it was you were smart enough to look for help to insure your children had a good adult to help them on a day to day basis. This woman did something she didn't have to do.

You are just getting back together with your sister and her husband. Ask yourself how that'll work out when you add 2 children to the household. They will misbehave because they will be seeing what the boundries are at your house. How will their aunt and uncle take to that? What arrangements to you have for their care while you are working or going to school? Can you financially support yourself and 2 children? Are you strong enough to work through the transition of not having them to having them 24/7. I think right now you have on your rose colored glasses that see everything being perfect but in reality there are some hard times and hard choices ahead.

She's already had unofficial custody of your 2 younger children for 3 yrs. That's a long time in a child's life. If she gets custody of these 2 then all 4 of your children will grow up together. I think you need to step back and look at it as 'what is best for my kids?' instead of 'i asked her for help and now she's trying to screw me over' because that's what a judge will do.

I would suggest not fighting for custody right now. Because you aren't even able to support yourself in your own place yet, you don't have much of chance in convincing a judge you are ready to support yourself plus 4 kids. That's not to say you'll never get there. Good for you if you've overcome some extremely tough circumstances and you are doing better. Don't let those who will judge you get you down. Keep focusing on the present and the future. Since you are back in the area, I would suggest finding an attorney asap. Look into legal aid or whatever services are available at low or no cost if you need to, but this should be top priority. I would ask the court for visitation in order to re-establish your relationship with the children. You have to put yourself in their shoes. THEY would most certainly not be ready to up and move from the only secure home they have known for years just because YOU want them with you now. I would seek visitation for now, with the longer term goal of reuniting them into your household. Then also start working as hard as you can to secure solid employment, save some money and move into a place suitable for yourself and your children.

Sorry but the only thing the judge is going to care about is what's in the best interest of the children. Normally when children are separated from a biological parent, the courts favor reunification of the children with the parent, but the parent needs to prove that she or he is really ready to care for the kids. While finding someone to take care of your kids in a time of need was a good thing to do, taking 3 years to get your act together - after surrendering the care of two other children years ago as well - does not look good. You have a pattern of not living the kind of life that children need. If someone else has been able to provide that stability in your absence, then the children will stay when them. The more time that passes, the less it is in the best interest of the children to be moved from a stable situation to an unstable one.

Do you have an education? A job? What have you been doing for three years? What have you learned in the past 3 years that's different from whatever you didn't change when you had your first two kids? If you've taken this time to get your feet under you and are ready to independently support and raise your kids, then great - and good for you! Now hire a lawyer to help you get your kids back. If your situation is still unstable (and if you're living with a relative instead of a place of your own and don't have space for yourself and your kids, you are still unstable), and can't afford a place to live, health care, childcare, etc. then you need to address that, now. It may be too late for you to get custody of your kids now (or ever), but if you can show that you are taking the right steps to get them back and are 100% focused on this, the courts may push off a permanent decision for a while to give you time to complete your education or a job training program, get a decent career and a place to live, etc.. And even if the court grants this other person custody, you may be able to get more visitation when you're on your feet. Take the long view - it's more than time for you to put your kids first and work hard to be a good mother to them, even if they can't live with you.

And not to be mean, but please stay away from men and get on really good birth control. The last thing your kids need would be for you to get distracted by a boyfriend or another baby. I don't mean to sound harsh or judgmental, but I know several people who are raising other people's children because the parents could never really get their act together and do everything that court required for them to get their children back. At the end of the day, the kids need a stable, loving home and if the biological parents can't provide that, they'll stay somewhere else.

Well, she certainly has too many kids in her house if you aren't exaggerating about how many she fosters. And I wonder if you really DO know how many kids she fosters, because I don't believe they would allow that many kids in her home.

I'm sorry you have had a bad time, but you HAVE been neglectful. Away for 3 years? That's a very long time. You say that you have moved in with your sister, so you evidently can't actually support yourself. Do you have a job? Would you make enough money to support them AND pay for childcare?

The children don't really know you, do they? I would think that is why she would want supervised visitation. Just because you gave birth to them, that doesn't mean the kids would be comfortable with you.

If you want to fight her for custody, you're going to have to have a lawyer represent you. You best start looking for a lawyer that you can afford.

I am sorry you haven't been doing well.Enough other things have been said about the amount of foster children she has, what the certified mail issue means, etc.etc. I agree you should go to court if she is really doing that.I also want to encourage you to pick out a career,something you think you can be good at if you aren't already and find a way to get through courses,or school and get a regular decent job.I know there are a lot of schools out there who provide loans, grants, etc.And I also want to know where the father (s) ? of your four children are and why they aren't playing some sort of a role in their lives. We all have times when we aren't doing so good. But we can also begin to make choices that may not make a perfect future but can be good or better than what you are experiencing in the present. Good luck to you. I know it is difficult. And it can cause a lot of depression -if you can move into action. Take a deep breath and get started.

I'm so sorry for all the problems/troubles in your life...this must be very painful. But if you cannot fully support yourself, have your own place of residence, pay all your own bills, and have extra money for paying for two children, it sounds to me like you still have work to do on the "taking care of yourself" front. Can you afford child care? Can you afford after school care? It kind of looks to me like you have abandoned 4 children. For the last 3 years she is the person who they have bonded with and who they have known as mom. Have you seen them in all this time? I think you need to talk to an advisor to find out the legal process you need to go through in order to get your children back. You also need to be financially independent and have a good job for the courts to allow you to have them back. Start the process. Start supervised visits. Start the paperwork. Go talk to a legal advisor to find out what you need to do. Also -- be thankful your children have been well taken care of by someone who cares for them and that they have been able to stay together. Don't be angry with this woman...she really is trying to do the best for your kids.