What Are Your 2.5Yr and 4Ry Like.....

I thought the book "Siblings Without Rivalry" was fantastic. The authors- Abraham & Mazlish I think- have another equally great book "How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk."

What helps with my 3 yo dd and 5 yo ds is staying close and catching it when a conflict first starts brewing. Whether I catch it early or not (because I don't always), just commenting non-judgmentally on the situation: something like "You both really want to play with that car at the same time." Sometimes just from that they come up with their own solution, otherwise I'll offer solutions like "Hey, let's get you another car" or an idea for me joining them or a different activity for one or both, etc. I never "make" my kids share- we take each situation individually and work out something agreeable to both. The result is they feel "safe" with their stuff and much less likely to lay claim to things and fight just because it's "MINE." Actually, my 3 yo is recently experimenting with the idea of possession and will sometimes run around the house with something big brother has requested with a devilish grin and her little fingers up saying "just one more minute." My 5 yo gets frustrated yet is able to grasp when I tell him she's little and just learning about power and negotiating and having stuff and it might just be better to find something else to do for a bit and she will quickly lose interest in the "game" and drop the thing. Then we can share a secret smile about the antics of his sweet little sister as she runs about the house giggling with the current object of their affection.

IMO, the whole practice of sharing between children has quite unnaturally become something that does not reflect at all how adults negotiate the use of things. We don't go up to something another adult is "playing" with and make them give it to us (either immediately or within a certain time frame) just because we want it. We say, "Hey, can I see that when your done?" or "How much longer are you going to be using that? I'd like to use it." Also, punishment does nothing constructive if your objective is helping children learn tools to get along with other people and will very much contribute to adversarial relationships all the way around. Same with rewards or progress charts and such- for more on that check out the book "Punished by Rewards" or "Unconditional Parenting" by Alfie Kohn (Can you tell I'm a book girl? :)

Developmentally, your younger child is not at a stage where he can understand the concept of sharing. There are lots of good books on this topic eg. Smart Love by Martha Heineman Pieper and William Pieper, 1,2,3 Magic. Basically, what they say is give up expecting a 0-3 or 0-4 yr old to act like an adult or older child. If you accept this and work around it, you and they will do much better. Do not scold or discipline the children to get them to do what they are not developmentally able to do. This will only worsen things and put distance between you and them. Also, Musikgarten in Oak Park has a great parenting class called EndZone that can help.
Interestingly, the Smart Love book suggests that you give the toy to the grabber and try to find a new one for the child that had the toy as they already had it for a while and may be distracted or readier to play with something else. If that doesn't work, only then do you try to distract the grabber with something else.
Fair is not a concept that a child that age understands. They are only able to think of what they want now - no deferred gratification, little empathy yet, no concept of fair etc. You will go out of your mind if you try to make a young child act like an older one when he/she is not capable of that type of advanced reasoning. Good luck.

Hi, M.. What you can do regarding the fighting over toys is buy them similar toys. My parents did this with my sister and me when we were little (we're 2 years apart) so she wouldn't have to intervene over us fighting over toys constantly. As far as rivalry and fighting... A lot of that is normal. All 3 of us fought constantly when we were growing up. But maybe you can set some boundaries so the rivalry can be more play than fight. For instance, let them know they can wrestle (especially outside so nothing gets broke), but there's no hitting, choking, biting, or kicking allowed. Wrestling will give them a way to wear out and be aggressive, but with guidelines. If they break a rule, then fun is over for the day and they have to play away from each other or something. Give them positive reinforcement, too! Let them know when they're playing well with each other. And, at the end of the day, if there were no instances where they had to be separated, give them something like ice cream for dessert (of course, that means no ice cream if they misbehave). I only have 1 child--a daughter. She's not aggressive, but she can be sassy and has selective hearing. We have to revisit the rules once in a while so I can remind her that if she can't listen, she doesn't get what she wants. So you're probably going to have to keep reminding them, too. Good luck!

M.
www.spiceglamup.com

i dont know the answers but i can relate and sympathize. my close in age boys are now 12 and 13 and it hasnt stopped yet. :) What I do find is that they can be good friends too.....they are also very different personality wise and i think that can add some friction. also i am happy to say that they dont treat anyone else the way they treat each other. there was a time that i was worried they were just going to be aggressive bullies....nope they save it all for each other and they do bully their other siblings too. Our own families are always the ones who get the worst of us........i also think its a boy thing personally. my boys still have a lot of hand to hand combat.....a lot of it is in good fun, but like a lot of that kind of fun......someone still ends up hurt or truly ticked off by the end. good luck!

My boys are 2 and the other just turned 4. They are always fighting over just about anything. Even over food because his waffle is bigger than mine. It tries your patience. I've try to explain sharing and over the past few months and it seems to be sinking in. The four year old has it but the 2 year old still does not get it. When they have chips the 2 year old will share but will give his brother a crumb instead of a whole chip. I try to explain that having toys is fun but it is more fun to have someone to play toys with, and thats is when sharing comes into place. Hang in there they will get it. They fight over toys now and will be fighting over girls in another 12 years. ha ha.

I have no words of wisdom. I have three boys that range in age from 14 to 6. They all fight. You think that the 14 year old would know better right? NOT. I think it is the nature of siblings to fight. BOY or Girl. I remember growing up, I got in a lot of fist fights with my brother who is 5 years my junior. So....I guess just trying to come between them ? I don't know. If you find a solution let me know,lol

I have four kids and they are older then 2 and 4, but the two middle boys are constantly fighting still and good friends other days. One thing I have to say is I don't believe your 4yr. old should give up whatever he is playing with because the 2.5 yr. old is fighting over the toy. Our rule in our house, is if you had if first and are playing with it, you don't have to give it to someone else yet. Your 2.5 yr. old is learning, if I choke (or fight) with so and so for that toy, mom will eventually tell him to just give it to me. He is going to start doing that for everything. While your older child may be learning if someone starts fighting with me for something I have, he should just give it up. I am not saying the older one should not share, but I believe he should NOT give it up while the younger one is behaving badly for it. My two middle boys are 9 and 11. They still fight. I tell them they need to get along. I have even gone to the extreme of taking things away from them (tv, video games, something they may be fighting over, etc) because they are fighting. That seems to work for a little while. Good luck.

I have 2 boys about the same age so I know what you are going through! Mine also fight usually about toys, one always seems to want EXACTLY what the other one is playing with...

What helps us diffuse the situation is responding quickly and having one boy get the toy first (I usually make that call and it's not always the younger one getting it either) and I set the timer for 5 minutes or whatever time just so that the other boy knows he's getting a turn. I do also suggest other toys to play with and spend a little time with the boy who did not get the toy just enough to get him playing nicely again.

I've also tried taking the toy away but that doesn't usually work for them and since they each have so many ideas about what exactly they want to do with the toy they really need to play with it by themselves for a period of time.

Good luck with whatever you try! This is definitely an ongoing thing in our house but now they do not get as upset (i.e. toys not being thrown about).

Hi M.,
I have a 3 and 5 year old, and they fight. They go back and forth alot, however I do accredit alot of there apologizing and making up to them and our discussions about fairness. Also, I take them to church and that helps alot. Make sure you are taking away privileges and giving them time outs. This method takes awhile,but you can see the results quickly, if you're consistent. Most importantly give them hugs and let them know you love them. Oh yeah, take them to the park or let them play outside. Redirecting the negative energy into something fun helps greatly. Just give it time it will get better.

D.

your boys are the same difference as my two girls. one strategy that i started implementing and has helped is to separate the kids when they start fighting. i tell them that if they can't get along in the same room they need to go to separate rooms and do their own thing. i prefer to do this rather than always putting one in the corner for time out. it is in some a way a time out for both of them. the point is to get them to settle down. obviously if someone is misbehaving than time-out/punishment is called for, but most times it's just that they are not getting along. since i started this, often times this puts them in check as they prefer to play with each other than by themselves. hope this helps.

Hey M., I know how you feel because my two boys are the same age as yours. what i do is when i buy them twoys i try and buy them the same thing or toys that look very similar. i also noticed what their favorite colors were so that also helps. As for the fighting the only thing I can think of is time-outs. they really work because if one starts the fight, then he gets a time out and it just serves as an example to the other one. And i let him know that those are the concequences for acting in a very bad way. talking to them as if they are " big boys" also helps a lot.
good luck to you!

Dear M.,

Carolyn P and KC have good points and suggestions. I agree with them. I have four children, girl-age 10, boy-age 9, girl-age 3.5 and boy-age 2. They do fight at different stages and for different things. One minute they're like peas and carrots, the next its like dogs and cats. So I can relate. My husband & I decided early that we'd not tolorate that & started to be on top of it right at the beginning. I suggest you take time to read and/or study more about child development and have a better idea on how they behave each year and/or stages of development. It would help you tremendously. At the same token, do allow your natural motherly instinct to make the discerning calls to descipline correctly and fit best for your children and family. Yes, children are like us adults, do come with different personalities We need to be in tune with the little ones as we're in tune with adults....with various degrees of temperment and tolorance. Most important thing is we're the parents who need to be in control and in charge especially they're at a young age. It needs to start early. If we lose control at that younge age, it will be difficult as they do get older. My older set are 18 months apart. And the younger set are 19 months apart. I use the same discipline techniques and principles for both sets and of course, modify based on the knowledge I've learnt along the way and apply my skills accordinly, make adjustments based on their personality and development stages. Education is the key. We need to educate ourselves daily to be effective parents. Another most important thing is to work together as a team with your spouse. Children do test both parents. They need to see that two parents are on the same team --descipline together. I've used the timer with my older set and then moved to the chart. Then weaned them off slowly. The 1,2, 3 work wonderfully, too When they got older, they fought about what TV shows to watch, which park to go to, and so forth. I developed a weekly chart, where their daily chores are listed, such as emptying out the dish machine, walking the dog, feeding the dog, taking out the garbage, and such, I rotate their days, so for an example, if my boy's day is Monday, Wednesday and Friday, he takes care of the chores expected of him, and mark them off once they're done and also on those days, he gets to pick where to hang out, what treat to have for desert and what show to watch (with parental approval of course). Then when's its my girl's day, she would follow the same rules. This way, no arguments, no tantrums. It cuts down on the fights, comparing, and it gives them a bit of control to make small choices. Start with something simple & add little more as they improve. It's been working ever since they were at the same as as yours now. My two year old helps me count also. So it is cute to see him learn how to count while he's being desciplined. Yes, children do bicker no matter at what age, but we need to teach them do it in a civil, respectful & loving manner if all possible. If they don't learn it from home how are they going to be loving, caring, thoughtful, and sensitive to the world outside of their home i.e. pre-school, neighborhood friends, or as they get older. Give time out as often as needed, and most of all talk to your children. You'd be surprised how much they do soak in the 'talk' form of discipline we do give. I think it's a blessing watching my older two attempting to descipline my younger two when I'm in another room, using the same tone, words and techniques that I've used on them. Although I've told them it's not your job to discipline your siblings, it's mommy & daddy's job.....but it's nice to know that they're aware of what's right & what's wrong. It may not be picture perfect right of the bat, but it requires practice on our part and positive results will arise. I've seen mine. Be patient and don't forget to give yourself a time-out now & then to take a deep breath & so you can start again. Both parents need to be on the same page & aware of the progress. As far as physical fights. NEVER allow them to get to that point. Never.
On the side note:My mother taught my sister & me at an early young age, "Love, respect and encourage each other no matter what". My sister & I are different as night & day, and we do have our shares of disagreements over the years and we also went through stages of development as we became adults....One thing remains the same...We love each other deeply and respect each other no matter what.
Best of luck to you my dear one.

Mindee

The show "Super Nanny" gives a lot of good ideas on the website. www.supernanny.com She uses charts and rewards for sharing and good behavior. She also uses the time out chair.
My son is 17 years old, so long past that stage, but he was never one to fight but my sisters 2 girls could fight (physically fight) at the drop of a hat. But I think part of it was that they are very close in age and have totally different personalities. They are now 16 and 17 years of age and are best of friends.
Some times when you reward one child for good behavior you have to make sure the other knows why he is not being rewarded. Make it a reward like going out for ice cream and the other needs to stay home with dad, or buying a special treat.
just an idea...

you're not alone. I have a 2 year old and a 3.5 year old, I feel like I'm constantly telling them, don't do this, stop that, leave your brother alone, etc. everyone tells me that it's normal...so that's what I'm going to stick with!

Even a 2.5 year old should be capable of learning to take turns and share (not that he will be successful every time, but....)
I think you need to read the fabulous book called "1,2,3 Magic".... It's a philosophy for time outs and parenting in general and it has helped us dramatically with our son, who is now 3. It definitely took some adjustment period.... about a month or two of following through with the counting technique outlined in the book... but now if we start counting, he almost always stops the bad behavior before I get to "3"... and if not, he knows he's getting a time out in his room for 3 minutes, and after that, all is well. With 2 boys so similar in age, this book will be a life-saver!