Lie Is a Lie, Right?

I don't consider a bit of fun fantasy to be lies.
There's the truth, and the brutal truth (may be true but not kind in the telling of it), white lies (a lie out of kindness), and lies of omission (only telling part of the truth but not all of it), and outright baldfaced lies.
To complicate things, truth often depends on context and how you look at it.
Some might think the promise of an afterlife is quite a lie (since no one can ever prove it), but the brutal truth (physical life is short) is usually too harsh for anyone to think much about.
I love Terry Prachett's discworld book 'Hogfather' - it covers some very interesting philosophies concerning the power of belief.
To condense one theme, children need to practice believing in small lies (like the tooth fairy and Hogfather (discworld version of Father Christmas)) so they can believe in the big lies (like truth and justice) when they are grown - because believing in the impossible is the only way such things can become real.

My husband has run into this with friends who were really shaken up when they were told the truth and had a hard time trusting their parents after. We decided not to do the lie thing. Santa is the spirit of giving and Christmas, and was a real person a long time ago, etc. The Easter bunny is a fun thing at the mall and doesn't deliver baskets (LOL). We don't take the fun away cause it's everywhere, and we'll be honest when he asks. But I'm not going to lie about the stuff. Pretending is fun, but we all know when pretending passes into lying and it doesn't feel right. I think the big thing is, if you have a thoughtful and introspective kid, they'll realize you've been lying for YEARS, and I think that's the big problem. The pretending mutates into lying. So enjoy the story part, focus on the religious aspects.

I can't tell you what's right and what's wrong. I can tell you that I didn't consider it a lie when I found out. What stands out for me is that Christmas was no longer fun. No more mystery to it.

My family has a saying:

"You don't have to lie, but you don't have to run around shouting the truth, either."

I'm another who believes there are degrees of lying, AND that non-truths (be they lies or fictions or theories/ideas) are both necessary and useful in life and should be used wisely. Also, that sometimes an out and out lie is the RIGHT choice in certain situations.

For example:

I don't tell my son (or anyone else for that matter) when I have sex, what we did, the rating scale, etc., when they ask me what I did on a datenight with my husband. Lie of omission right there. And durn straight.

I don't tell my son "No those are woodchips, not hot lava." at the park, and I WILL say "I'm a lava monster! Coming to get you!!"

I don't keep my son from reading fiction, or watching it, creating it, or preforming it.

I don't tell my son religion is a lie (because faith can't be 'proven' true or otherwise until the argument is academic).

I don't tell my son I'm afraid he'll die, I can't stand his friend, I don't like his choice of color in a painting... even though they all might be true.

I teach my son that if someone hurts him, and makes him promise not to tell; to durn well promise, get safe, and then tell.

Most kids are a lot smarter than we give them credit for.

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I dont think so. Lies that are meant to hurt or conceal malicious things are quite different from the "spare feelings and childhood whimsical" lies.

As with everything there are intentions. Within the intentions is what matters.

so by your line of reasoning if you want to "out" santa you might as well explain , abortion, miscarriage, anal sex, the death penalty, drug addiction, molestation, youthanasia, paralysis, cancer,

etc....

etc....

I think your son will miss out on A LOT because of your theory :-( I'm SO Glad my parents 'lied' to me about certain things!

We were Catholic too, and they told us some whoppers, but that is a whole other story they were trying to say things were absolute truth when in reality it is faith based.. ..

I LOVED believing in Santa and I was so proud of myself when I figured out the big "secret".. I loved then being able to "play Santa" for others..

we still do for families without means. Santa really does leave them trees, gifts, food, gift cards and to this day they have no idea.. except that Santa, Mrs. Claus and the elves, left it all for them.. .. I have never felt as though any of these things are lies.. . We are participating in the "spirit of the event.".

Yep, I'm with JB. Never in my life until I started hanging out at this particular website have I ever seen so many people take the route you're taking about 'lying to your kids' and that causing later trust issues. Are you kidding me?? Seriously? I don't know, maybe I just don't get it, but it seems awfully all-or-nothing to me & imho, I would not choose to deny what little bits of magic I can provide to my kids, even if it is only for a short period of time.

I guess it depends on how you look at it, obviously. Santa, EB and TF are all "feelings" we instill in our little ones. However, as a child that grew up with awesome parents that fully led me to believe in Santa, EB and TF I can honestly say I'm not screwed up because of that. I don't look at my parents differently as to think they "lied". There is a spirit around the holidays as well as events that I think all kids need to feel. These are all traditions in our culture and it's up to you if you want to play along or teach your kids from the get go that presents come from Target. Kids are only young for so long and in no way do I believe it is harming them to play along that Santa exists. Clearly they figure it out sooner or later, but it's all in fun.

Myths and fairy tales are not lies... they are lovely stories children love to hear to make them happy and feel good about the world.

If you are Catholic... then technically the Bible isn't truth, because it's a whole bunch of stories placed together with a similar theme by men... if you aren't going to call the Bible a lie - no reason to call Santa, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, etc lies either.

I did not have Santa, Easter Bunny...or any other fun holiday extra's.

You bet your butt my kids are getting them.

It blew not getting to think there was a Santa.

Being the only kiddo that didnt.

My sister and brother in law are bring up there family without the extra's...so when we have older children I can compare who is more damaged.

I side with your hubby. Just like the Catholic church teaches that there are venial sins and mortal sins, there's lying to your children over something important and letting them believe in something magical/fairy-tale-ish. I never went to great lengths to "make" my kids believe in Santa, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy etc. but I did let them believe and get excited as long as they wanted to be. Eventually the older ones figured it out and no one felt betrayed.

There's a difference between a lie and a tradition. There's nothing wrong with celebrating with those things and putting them into context: they're not reality, but a fun tradition associated with the holiday. No damage done.

Thinking your son will have trust issues because of Santa and the Easter bunny is just ridiculous. Personally I think that people resort to this "all truth" thing because maintaining the fantasy is just too hard. Honestly let your kids be kids the easter bunny, santa clause, tooth fairy all stories that have been around for years and make being a kid a little more enjoyable than being an adult. The thought that when you are little there are talking bunnies and a jolly elf flying through the skies and tooth fairies makes it seem a little magical.

Santa is not a lie, he is the symbol of the magic of the season. Same with the Easter Bunnie. No adult I have ever known has been traumatized by the fact that they found these to be myths as they got older. I say let kids enjoy these holiday traditions while they are young enough to, and let kids be kids.

Don't take the magic away from your children. They won't be mad at you later for lying but will be mad at you for not "lying". The magic is what it is all about for them . Let them dream . Why would you want to take away the idea that anything is possible . Santa is a good thing . You need to believe . Have you ever seen Polar Express? Believe

a lot of good questions and answers on here from Christmad time. You can search those and get opinions on both sides. I agree wtih both you and your husband. It's deception, but you can do it in such a way that its not. I never lied to my kids, but I never set them down and told them these things are just made up. I answered thier questions with questions, and was vague - I dont know dear, what do you think? And I alluded that the world is a great big place full of mysteries and that anything is possible, all with a wink in my eye.

oooohhhhh.....

For Santa and such - it's more like a fairy tale and not so much a lie...it's such a fine line....because EVERYONE has a different opinion on it.

I don't that letting him "believe" in this is wrong...but what can I say? I still get presents from Santa and I'm 45!! (no kidding!! SMILES!!)

I don't know how old your son is either...my boys are 9 and 11 and are getting to realize that Santa is make -believe and they aren't mad at us....

I think there is a difference between make believe and a lie. Very few people I know were scarred over finding out Santa wasn't real, but my husband was one of them. So we take an approach that those characters are fun and real in our hearts and spirit, though they are not necessarily tangible. In that way, Santa is real. But we still do the fun Santa leaving out toys. We also do the Easter bunny, tooth fairy, again, emphasizing the fun part.

You should totally read this book to your kids for Christmas, it marries the legend of Santa with the birth of Christ and the historical context of the true Saint Nick. It helps us keep it fun yet focused on the reason for the season.

"A Special Place for Santa" ;
http://www.amazon.com/Special-Place-Santa-Legend-Time/dp/...

Some of my best childhood memories with my parents were the fond memories of looking back on how they managed to surprise us every year. What my tooth fairy gave me and her cute little notes, made me love my mom more for her sweetness when I realized that she was the tooth fairy.

Make believe and magic and wonder is so very enriching for childrens lives. It's good for them to foster the maturity to start to question the truth and figure it out. When you approach the subject with your kids and they are in the know, now they get to be on the other side of the fun. It's all how the parent leads it.

Did your parents "lie" to you - do you trust them?

I think lying is subjective. What you may consider a lie, I may not, or vice versa. There is a difference between letting a child be a child, believe & use his imagination & lying because you did something wrong or to hurt someone, IMO.

So, by your argument, your child can only read factual books & watch factual tv shows, only play with toys that are replicas of "real" things, because to do anything else would be partaking in a fantasy, something that is made up, not factual, something that is imaginary, or in your words "lying".

To each her own, but I think some of the best parts of being a child are the things are whimsical, innocent, and imagined. All kids end up finding out that fairies & transformers don't exist in the real world, and it's not damaging to their psyche.

I never felt lied to one I figured out Santa and the gang weren't real. We've continued the tradition with our children. I never felt crushed, betrayed, or any other emotion besides sadness. After I knew Santa wasn't real, the holiday lost it's magic. Now that I have children of my own, the holiday seems magical again. And, we completely focus on the true meaning of Christmas as well, but we include Santa in our celebrations.

I was pretty shaken up as a child when I found out that these things were not real. I mean I got in trouble for lying, but it was ok for my parents to lie to me?? Anyway, what we have always told our kids is that Santa is a decoration at Christmas, the Easter Bunny is just a decoration for Easter and that the tooth fairy is just a fictional character in a book, that he isn't real. They will see these things in life and even have friends that believe they are real. We have always just told our kids that they are just decoration and that the people that are dressed so they can help be decorations for the holiday.

I argue with my brother about this all the time!! I remember my childhood being full of magic and make believe - pretend play was the ONLY play for me and my 4 siblings. We knew that Santa brought most of the presents under the tree, that the toothfairy made losing a tooth worth the pain, that the easter bunny loved to hide our eggs, and a slew of other forgotton childhood truths. When I found out that these ideas were as made up as the lava surrounding my bed each morning that kept me from getting ready for school, lol, i didnt feel that I had been misled by my parents. But this is the thing. There is no rulebook here. I go along with the whole thing for my two boys - because i remember how much i loved the magic growing up - but who is to say what is right for you? Definately not me! I just think that in whole our children are growing up much too quickly these days and i want to preserve that wonder and innocence and magic for my kids as long as I can.

We are not doing Santa, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, etc.

I agree. A lie is a lie. Not to mention they are ridiculous. I remember believing in Santa and the Easter Bunny as a child and how disappointed I was when I found out it was all FAKE. Not cool.

Btw: When a child reads a fairy tale or a fiction book, they KNOW ITS FAKE. When mom and dad tell them santa brought a present or that the tooth fairy took their tooth and left money, they believe us! We spend time and effort to create an absurd charade just to get our child to believe in Santa or Rudolph or The Easter Bunny. What is the point? Kids will still have an amazing imagination even if they are not taught those things. Mine do.

Good for you for sticking up for what you believe in!

I totally disagree with you. All lies are NOT created equal. Esp the one you reference-which I really don't even consider a 'lie'. Does any child honestly blame their parents for these beautiful and fun 'lies' of childhood? Are we really offended that they 'lied' to us? No-not at all. And if we are there are bigger issues to deal with.

I also think it is perfectly ok to lie to protect someone's feelings from getting hurt.

Anyone who actually thinks they don't lie, to some degree, on a daily basis is lying to themselves, LOL.
I don't understand how can people think the fantasy and fun of Santa or the Tooth Fairy is a flat out lie and somehow wrong? Do you beleive literally in everything your church teaches? If you have enough faith to beleive everything the Catholic Church tells you then you must have enough faith to beleive in fantasy, childhood imagination, the spirit of giving, love and fun. I mean don't you guys believe in miracles, the resurrection? I'm not trying to belittled your faith but it just seems that your OK with some highly unlikely, impossible to prove fantasies but not others. There is a history behind those holiday traditions, they've been around a long time for very good reasons. If you choose your words carefully you can let your son enjoy the magic of childhood without flat out lying or breaking his heart when he figures it out.

I think you can tell the truth with the fairy tale incorporated. Tell him what Christmas is about, and we celebrate His birth by giving gifts. Santa helps give gifts.
I've never met an adult that was traumatized by thinking Santa, the Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, etc was real. Your kid might be more upset that you ruined the innocent imagination of it all.

Edit-
Did you know that Santa Claus is a fictional character based off an actual person? There really is truth behind that whole thing. Sinterklas is what they call him in Holland and some of Europe. You could start with that story.

I suppose you'll only read your children non-fiction books and discourage any imaginative play. Suppose your child says they are a ninja or pretty princess, would you scream, "LIAR!" at them? I don't think you would, but you seem hell bent on taking the fantasy and magic out of childhood.

We did not do Santa and the Easter bunny, and focused on the true meaning and our daughter never felt left out and she now has a stronger faith in Christ and yes we did talk about how Santa was started by a man to help promote Christian faith but now has been elevated above Christ at Christmas. And yes she has read fairy tale books and has a great imagination and now wants to be a writer of sci-fi and other stuff. Our daughter has told us she is glad we did not do Santa and all and never felt left out and did not ruin those things for her frineds and again that we focused on Christ and how doing what we did helped her faith.

We always did the santa thing - infact my brother now is 52 and took over the family business and he loves it when santa still comes to grandmas (moms ) house and has a stocking filled for him - I think it is all up to the family - my daughter is 14 and I told her once she stopped to belive santa stops comming to visit her, the same with the other holidays ---

due to major health issues on my part this year she stayed up and helped the easter bunny - of course she still left a basket for her- and you know what her and I will always rememeber that specail time in the middle of the night.

I do think it is up to you and what you and you want to raise your child...

good luck and happyth of July

We too do not do either of those things and our kids still have fun:)

I dont think it's a lie, I consider it more "fantasy".

I get your point, but your poor child will be the only one NOT being lied to :) it's all in good fun and tradition, not for anything more or less!

When the tooth fairy, Santa, Easter bunny come into their lives they are
small. Little ones love that magic that these traditions provide. Why take
that from them. Nowadays so much is expected of kids, let them enjoy
the magic of it all.

Santa (Yes I have played Santa for years. I love it and the kids reactions are
priceless.)

While I never told my kids a word about the Easter bunny they found out from other kids. Santa is okay, Tooth Fairy good too. Think about the bigger lies we tell them about religion and morality neither of which is fairly practiced.
If I were hiding a runaway slave from her indentured servitute or forced prostitution I'd definately lie about her/him being in my home.
A big lie is to trust the priest. If you don't tell your son what priests are capable of or you pretend it's still not going on you will do him harm that cannot be undone. Open your eyes there are bigger pictures here about lying.

I had the same worry. But I knew that my husband's parents would teach them about it, regardless of what we chose, so we decided to be proactive. Here's what we've done:
Santa brings 1 present per kid each year. Everything else comes from mom & dad. We go to see Santa during the season to tell him what they want, but for most of the Christmas season we focus on the birth of the Savior.
Easter Bunny - is a funny story some people tell (we never did Easter bunny, and when my in-laws mentioned it to my then 18 month old, she about had a panic attack! lol) Again, we focus on the Christian reason for celebrating easter.
Tooth Fairy - brings a coin or gift for tooth, but has ended up being VERY unreliable (lol, I always forget at night!)

We never really "taught" them about any of these fairy tales, they learned it from elsewhere. We didn't do a whole lot to support (we do give gifts from santa & tooth fairy, but we don't do a whole lot of build up or anything) but we also don't immediately tell the kids that they aren't real.

My daughter figured out on her own about a year and a half ago that Santa was mom & dad (okay, so I was a bit careless, but she's the only one who noticed - she was 11). She wasn't upset at all, and has never ever doubted anything we've taught her about God (that was my big worry!), and now has fun helping with the younger kids'.

So it doesn't *hurt* things to let them believe for a while. But don't make a big deal. And when they come and ask "is Santa real?" go ahead and be upfront.

We do not have our kids believing in any of those things either, based on your same feelings. We want them to know the truth about the holidays and not believe in some pretend person. That said we allow them to know about them since it is so much apart of our culture. Our kids know Santa is a fun part of Christmas, the Easter Bunny is a fun part of Easter/spring. My daughter lost her first tooth a few months ago and knew right away that I was the tooth fairy.

I think that letting him believe in a fairytale is a good thing when he is little. Their world is so much bigger than ours as adults.

Or just don't celebrate in that way at all. You don't have to tell him that Santa is real or fake, just that in your family you choose not to celebrate that.

I posted something like this a long time ago and got BLASTED for even considering not letting my kids believe in Santa.

I say do what you and hubby agree to do. If you cannot agree, well then I can't help you there. On here, most moms will probably say what they did when I asked this - that we are ruining holidays for kids if we tell them the truth.

I remember when I was told by a classmate that Santa was not real. I was devastated. I was also very mad at my mom for letting me believe something so ridiculous and looking like a fool in front of my friends whose parents had told them the truth.

Luckily, I recovered. =)

I honestly don't think it will matter one way or the other - so stop discussing with your husband and move on to something way more fighting worthy, like money!!

Good luck!

I feel conflicted over this just like you, and not because I am religious - because I am not a fan of lying and really value honesty. I read the NY Times article Peg M cited and it was very interesting. My daughter is nearly 4 and I have the same struggles. I have not emphasized Santa or the Easter bunny nor have I denied it - my Mom is meanwhile totally into Santa this and santa that. I don't know the right answer (I guess there isn't one) but I think it's fair for each of us to decide. We do have to be respectfol of the dominant culture and realize that their classmates will mostly be bought into these lies/stories at the young ages.

Good luck!! We all need it!

My seven year old knows the truth, but we still play the game. This is where imagination comes in. She still gets presents at Christmas, she still gets an Easter basket & hunts for eggs & she still gets money from the tooth fairy. Works for us & no lying is involved.

I think your right, although we are liars, I dont think there is anything wrong with teaching your kids the real meanings of the Holidays (which we do also). You can still make it fun.

There is no harm in allowing your kids to believe in something that is fun and imagination filled---childhood is all about these things!!! You aren't lying to them---you are allowing them to use their creative minds to have fun and be joyful! I think you must have some real big trust issues with your childhood that have nothing to do with santa or the easter bunny.

I hear your concern. I'm divided on this myself. I allowed my daughter to participate in these cultural tales so she wouldn't blow her little friends' illusions, but never pushed them hard, and always looked for ways to help her understand they were stories that were really about our own internal hopes and wishes. Ultimately, we are all Santa Clause. Ultimately, we become the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny to delight and bless the next generation.

There's a wonderful book, Nurture Shock, New Thinking About Children, by Po Bronson & Ashley Merryman, which explores why so much of what we believe about raising kids is just plain wrong. You can read an excerpted article from it about how adults teach our kids to lie. Check out this link on lying and arguing: http://nymag.com/news/features/43893/

Well I tend to classify some as "necessary lies." I think we've all been in the position where someone asks us a question that we know the true answer would NOT be in anyone's best interest. IE: Boss asks if what she is wearing makes her butt look big." The truth is she YES of course it does, do u not look at yourself in the mirror before you leave the house. But of course you do not tell your boss that...at least not if you want your next raise...lol. (Of course if it was a good friend I would tell her the truth.) I will dance around the truth to avoid hurting someone's feelings unnecessarily.

We handle it like this : We celebrate all the holidays with the traditional
Santa, Easter Bunny, etc. Our almost 5 y/o has been taught the real meaning of the holidays but we also taught her that the "magic" of the holiday is in believing in Santa and the Easter Bunny. Very simply put to her that if you believe in Santa then you experience the "magical fun" of the holiday but we're really celebrating the birth of Christ. Perhaps you could find a happy medium like we did. Encourage believing in the "magic" of the holiday rather than focus on Santa/Bunny. We haven't had to deal with the tooth fairy issue yet, but I imagine we will handle it the same way. Good Luck and God Bless.

My son was told in kindergarten that santa was not real and to me it was just too young to have the magic taken away from Xmas morning so i LIED!!! I told him that if he stops believing Santa quits coming. The holidays have just in the past two years become fun again for me so i might be greedy but if i can have one or two more years of playing santa then so be it. I know he knows that he can trust me on the major stuff and when he realizes on his own that santa etc is not real he will still have the trust and realize its something fun and hopefully keep the magic alive for his little sister and maybe be a part of it until she is older. Right now I think he believes in big foot more than anything thanks to the finding bigfoot show

I felt like you growing up. When my parents finally told me about everything, I bawled for most of a day and I was quite upset about the fact that they lied to me. Sure I was upset about everything not being real, but I really had a hard time with the fact that they lied, because although it made NO sense to me... ever, I believed them because they were my parents. I understand your situation and really question how I'm going to handle everything when my 2yo gets old enough to have free thought. I just finished reading through most of your answers. Some of them got me kind of fired up. Seriously? Kids are not going to have an imagination because you don't lie about holidays? There are different avenues of imagination that don't involve getting off track of what the holiday is actually regarding. I hate when people on this forum get up on their soap box. People have different opinions, and ways of life.

I never told my kids about those things. They hear it everywhere. So when they asked me about it, I just asked them questions back and had fun with it.
As a kid I never believe any of it was real. When I was five, my mom was crying and said she had something to tell me. It scared me, but she just said Santa wasn't real. Heck , I knew that. But as an adult, I have wondered why she decided to do that. My kids believed it longer, but I never thought to make a point to tell them it wasn't real.

we don't lie to our kids either. They know that santa, easter bunny are just someone in a costume. Of course they know the stories, but they are just that. Stories. We are non demonational Christians, and believe in teaching them the real meaning of those holidays. But we do have fun with the stories

My husband and I are really torn about this too. He figured out the Santa thing at an early age and thought his parents were dumb for trying to make him believe in it. I found out the truth at a later age, and I absolutely had a hard time with the fact that my parents REPEATEDLY lied to me. I remember thinking I would never do that to my kids.

Yes, I understand that part of it is providing "magic" for the little ones. I'm amazed at the things that my 2 year old DD finds wonderful and marvelous.

Yes, I understand that we "lie" to our kids intentionally/unintentionally (that NY Mag article was really interesting!).

On the other hand, at age 34, I still hate the fact that my parents "lied" to me about Santa/the Easter Bunny/Tooth Fairy. Yes, I got over it. And yes, I still trust them.

This will really be the first year that my daughter would understand about Santa anyway, so I guess we'll have to see how it all works out. I'd love to try a "compromise" like some of the mamas here suggested, but I kind of feel like it's an 'all or nothing" sort of idea. Either Santa is real or he isn't....