Inlaws Gush About Other Grandchild, and Other Gripes I Have with Them

To sum it up: A son is a son till he takes a wife, a daughters a daughter the rest of her life. You cannot change her, so just accept it for what it is. Two very different relationships.

I would just be thankful they live a ways away and dont visit often. When they come over just smile and nod, and ignore them.

As a grandmother of eight, I'm thinking that they really don't favor A over E, they just know her better. I think they talk alot about her because they are trying to make conversation. I doubt that they mean any offense and I just about bet you on the way home, they are thinking about the visit and probably realize that they talked constantly about A without really meaning to.

You should really try not to get too frustrated; I really don't think they are playing favorites. They are just noticing differences between the two babies and their mothers' parenting styles, but it doesn't mean they think one is better than the other.

The next time you go out to eat, why not just ask them if they would mind holding E so you and hubby can eat. It may be that they don't feel as comfortable just taking her because YOU are her mother and they are being deferential to you. They perhaps are just not as comfortable kind of "taking charge" with E because you are not their child.

And if I'm wrong, and they really do prefer A, just consider this. I have seen some of the very BEST babies turn into really not very good kids and young adults. So they very well may change their opinion as the years pass.

Bottom line - every minute/day/month they don't see E is their loss and THEY WILL come to regret it.

Oh, she sounds so much like my MIL! Just moments after we got engaged, she told me her son makes more than enough money for me to be a SAHM. I thought, but I don't want to be a SAHM. I want to be able to work. She was a SAHM, and her daughter is a SAHM. That is wonderful!!! But, it's ok to be a working mom, too. We're happy, our kids are happy, it really is a good fit for us.

I wonder if it's a little bit a mother/daughter thing. My SIL is parenting in much the same way that her mother did, whereas I am going to parent much like my parents did. Not because I'm making a conscious choice to do so, but because it's what I know and what I've experienced.

My MIL and I actually have a really good relationship now, but it really was hard at first. I had to realize that really, she just wanted to be needed. She saw herself as an experienced mother who had lots of advice to share with me. When I didn't do it her way, she thought I was telling her that her way was wrong. It's too bad that she didn't have the confidence to realize that there really can be more than one right way, and my decision might not have anything to do with her.

So I started really trying to see her advice whenever I could. What kinds of first foods did she give her kids, did they like to sleep with a blanket, how old were they when they got their first tooth, etc. Really just anything I could think of to show her that I respected her as a mom. Overtime, she came to respect me as a mom. She realized (and even told me) that different does not mean wrong. There were many things I did differently then her, but I was still a good mom. So glad she realized that one!

I also had to develop a thick skin. So not easy, I tend to be very sensitive, but it really helped.

You will find some tricks to work for you. It's worth it!!! This might be a challenging time right now, but it's totally worth the effort to really try to develop a good relationship with her. Good luck!

This was our world for many years until we moved far far away. Now, we deal with it in short bursts on the phone. My MIL and I get along well and I want to preface with that because I essentially ignore her, which is why we "work".

I seriously ignore the commentary because it hit me one day that her on-going reporting in my SIL and her "perfect parenting" (her words, not mine) were born out of insecurity.

I work, my SIL does not. Commentary usually included "I help her all the time because I don't think it's right to have other people raise your child." OK, but you are actually helping her out because she can't manage two children and her household at the same time AND they are so far in debt that they are living in the grandmother's house rent free so they don't have to file for social services.

I have multiple graduate degrees, SIL does not. Commentary usually included "College is over-rated. You don't need an education to have common sense." OK, but SIL was knocked up at 17 and they can't pay their bills without you buying their groceries every week. Pretty sure my "useless degrees" are keeping a roof over our heads!

You get the idea. I ignore most of what she says. I finally "came clean" with my husband about this because I felt really guilty ignoring her running commentary. To my surprise, his response was "I've been doing that for the last 25 years. You can't actually listen to her or you'll go insane!"

So, that's my advice to you. Ignore her or you'll go insane. If she misses out on getting to know your child, that's her loss. She was so detached from our children that we moved across the country to be near my family. Despite being around her frequently, she had no relationship with my children because she didn't put forth the effort to get to know them. As a result, they miss her but they don't really ask about seeing her.

Ignore the comments and know that her relationship with your child is her responsibility. Your responsibility is to model for your daughter how to be gracious and respectful.

Different people have different ways of dealing with the same situation. My wife is like your parents and I'm like your husband's parents.

I'm more than willing to help, if asked, but I don't volunteer to help very much. My wife on the other hand is almost always volunteering to help. She never asks me I that is ok with me, she just helps and volunteers me too. I don't object. I just carry on.

If you want their help, ask. If they are sitting with you at the table and they are done with their food and you are still dealing with a fussy baby ask for their help. I would not offer to help, but would be glad to hold the baby if asked. My wife would ask to hold the baby. If the waiter failed to fill the water glasses, and you mentioned that you would like something to drink, I'd get up and get water. If you said you would like for someone to hold the baby so you could eat, I'd hold my arms out to have you hand me the baby, but you are a grown woman. I just figure you can handle things and if you wanted help you'd ask.

Anyway. That's my perspective.

Good luck to you and ours.

Consider that you may be a little sensitive. They may be gushing about your child to their other kids!

Tell your MIL that you wish you lived closer so that the cousins could know each other better. Tell her things that insure that she knows you feel a part of the family. Sometimes when we get defensive we unknowingly hold back and can be causing what bothers us.

If your instincts are totally right and they do favor the the other grandchild (besides that it is normal they talk about her because they know her better) then come up with strategies to protect yourself, accept it and let it roll off. One strategy would be to ask your husband for some help before their visit. Perhaps you can make a run to the grocery store while they are visiting to give them time alone with their son, and a break for you from them?

Ask them to babysit so that they can get to know your baby better.

Visit them more often so that they feel included. This whole thing could just be about them being closer to the other family and included more.

J.M. -

2 hours a month over 10 months. I would just breathe, smile, and say a lot of "that's nice."

They prefer baby A, they prefer SIL's parenting style, they are hands off grandparents. I am right there with you in wishing they would be less vocal about it, but little you can do to change it.

Good luck to you and yours,
F. B.

I don't think you are being too sensitive. What I do think is the underlying issue is they aren't as active of a participant in your baby's life, and then on top of it they make these comments. Well heck yes that is irritating!

My in laws come over maybe once a month. They never babysit (I take that back, maybe in a handlful of emergencies over an 8 year period), they don't bring the kids anything or do anything fun (ex, they showed up at easter to eat dinner, not a thing for the kids. What grandparent doesn't at least bring a chocolate bunny?!) They are very self-absorbed and they BRAG ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE'S GRANDKIDS THAT THEY SEE MORE OFTEN. That is the kicker.

So, I can relate. But at the same time, there are some positives. They are a healthy couple, for the most part (as in not mentally ill, abusive, happily married, etc). They still love the grandkids, even if they don't spend time with them anywhere near the amount we would like. And I don't have parents who help me, so you beat me in that aspect as well.

All in all, I get it, but your husband really needs to say something if you want this resolved. These are his parents, not yours, so I think he needs to be the one to speak up. Tell them how you feel (through or with hubby) and if nothing changes, then you have the right to be mad!

I think a large part of the problem may be that you and they have different expectations.

1) Not coming to help when your baby was born. MANY MANY MANY grandmothers (and sorry about the gender stereotyping but it is the root of this issue) will automatically come to help their daughters but NOT their daughters in law. This is only because they do NOT want to step on toes, not because they don't want to help. It is assumed that one's mother will 'help' and one's MIL will interfere. It is very possible that she floated a 'hint' about coming with your husband before your child was born and he completely missed that it was a hint. He may not even remember.

2) Holding the baby. Basically the same as above. If you would like them to hold her (after they eat), just ask. If they don't want to hold her, there's not much you can do. However, they may very well assume that you are the mom, you will decide who can and will hold the baby and when that will happen. And that you will tell them. Also most people do not try to take a baby from its parents when it gets fussy. Most people give the fussy baby right back, thinking the parents will calm the baby.

3) Comparisons and the working mom/SAHM comparison. Maybe she is truly being judgmental. Or maybe talking about SIL and A going to the zoo is her talking about what she has in common with you. You have a baby and she has a baby she can talk about too.

4) Babysitting. Sorry, not a grandparent's job. It's nice if they volunteer sometimes but they have no obligation and they may assume that if you trusted them enough to baby sit, you would have asked them already. The grandparents' job is to visit with the grand kids. At the infant and toddler age, that means the parents will still be there.

And everything 8KidsDad said.

Hi, J.M.

One of the things that we, women, may never have been taught is to hold people accountable for how we are affected by their behavior.

We have forgotten that people have FEELINGS!

I suggest you learn to ask for what you need.
Ask your In-laws, Parents or Siblings, if they would want to babysit your baby?

If they do, arrange a time and date for them to do it. Make a regular appointment for them.

The other thing about feeling less than, here is a way to address those feelings.

1. Say what you felt when you realized what had happened.
2. Say what impact this behavior (incident) has had on you and others.
3. Say what has been the hardest thing for you.
4. Say what you think needs to happen to make things right. (In other words, say what you need).

Good luck.
D.

When my Grandma used to come visit, all she would talk about was my cousins. Bessie is doing this, Bessie is doing that. They lived about 30 mins from Bessie and family, We were states away.

When I would try to tell her something that I had done so that she would be proud of me, she would come back with oh yes, Bessie has done that too. Finally when I was in high school I had had enough. They were up visiting and she was going on and on. Finally I said, 'Grandma, I am me. I am not Bessie, I don't want to BE Bessie, I don't want to hear about Bessie and I don't care what Bessie is doing.' She was so shocked and hurt. She started crying and then I felt bad. She said she was sorry, she hadn't realized that I thought she was comparing us, she was just trying to share. While I felt bad, it did help things. She stopped bring up Bessie. Although, I think it strained things to because all of a sudden she didn't know what to talk about.
A few years later I was at a reunion talking with my cousins and I brought it up.
Me: You know, I love you, we are family, but every time Grams comes to visit, she compares me to you. It drives me nuts!
My cousin just looked at me.
Cos: Really?
Me: Yes, you are ALL she talks about when she comes to visit.
Cos:Hmm, because when she comes to visit me, YOU are all she talks on and on about.
Me: Really?

As for helping when they are visiting, do you ask them to hold E for a second?
As for the SAHM vs working, that is a battle that many people will chime in on over the years. You'll need to grow a thick skin. As to all of the trips she takes to the zoo and stuff, just respond with, "well, it is easier to get there when you live closer"

Are you on facebook? If yes, are you friends with your SIL? That way, when the say things about A, you could just say, oh I know, I read that. Takes a little sting out of it.

Hey JM,

First, you are doing an awesome job as a mom. I read over your previous posts and it seems like you are really working your tail off to make things work both at your job and at home.

It's really too bad that your in-laws can't see it and don't choose to acknowledge it.

I do understand your frustration. I have someone in my life like this (in my family) who used to really drive me batty. She has those strong, false 'facts' about working moms vs SAHM moms which are totally unfounded and only based on her perception of reality. They are too vulgar and stupid to repeat, but it made me angry. I worked for years as a nanny supporting working mothers who were very involved in their children's lives. It's an outdated and unfair assumption. I have also worked off and on as a mom. I now get to hear about how wonderful and bright my nephews are and because my son is the youngest, how "he'll get there one day"... blah blah blah. Sad that they can't just let it be and enjoy him in the here and now.

I've come to accept that this is just who this person is for me, in my life. I have grown to basically compartmentalize anything this person says on this topic as more or less potential 'crazy person talk'. Their comments are really about them, their perception and their beliefs, and while I find some comments rather offensive, I realize that this person is rather 'broken' in this area. She needs to assert the rightness of what she did in order to validate her own life. I've learned to be rather 'Teflon' about the whole thing and let those comments slide right off.

I had to do this with my own in-laws as well. Sometimes, those of the older generations feel like they know the ONLY was to raise a baby, and it was the way they did things. (I know a lot of grandparents who are hands-on, awesome and flexible about letting their kids parent in their own way, too.) I heard plenty about how my extended nursing and cosleeping was going to make our son a spoiled brat. I now hear from them about his good manners and how much they enjoy his thank you notes and his company. It took them time to see that their unfortunate predictions didn't come true and it was only then, I believe, that they came to really trust me to raise their grandson.

One thing that helps in both those situations is that I have stopped seeking approval from those parties. I don't look to them for positive strokes--if I get them on occasion, they are a nice surprise. It is hard to do this, huh? We want our families to think we are doing a good job. The negative messages are projections of their own fears and worries, not necessarily reality.

Personally, if someone had told me that a 10 month old needed to learn how to play by themselves more, I'd likely roll my eyes. At ten months, a bonded baby is happy to either play alone or be connected with mama. If you are working it's reasonable that your daughter is 'soaking you up' when you are together. There is NOTHING wrong with that. This should show you that maybe your MIL doesn't, indeed, know everything.

Comparing kids is a dangerous habit to get into. "Kids all come with their own personalities and temperaments. Have you ever read any of the books that are out these days? It's amazing how babies are all so different and so wonderful and change so much." (You can suggest the book "The Science of Parenting" by Margo Sunderland if they want a title, it's focus is on raising emotionally healthy and resilient children with the supportive theme of infant/early childhood brain development.) :)

One thing that I like to think to myself after I'm treated to behaviors like what you described is simply this: "Now I know". Now you know: don't expect much from your in laws. Don't be surprised when they get petty and continue the comparisons. Don't take it personally and do not expect them to be able to be supportive-- either they can't, or they're choosing not to, but don't expect it. Accept that this is what you get with them. My sad sense is that all of their deflection and comparisons are meant to cover up their own inadequacies as grandparents. If the comparisons become problematic as your daughter grows, do point this out to your husband and then *he* should speak to his folks.

It's difficult when you work so hard and get so little support or acknowledgement from those whom it would mean a lot to hear it from. Once again, turn to friends and other supports for validation and try to keep your time with the in-laws as emotionally neutral for yourself as possible. Don't give them any more time and thought than they are willing to give you. Believe me, this is NOT the place to put your energy. Do what you feel is best for your family and keep going forward. Good luck!

I think you need to speak with DH. He may be able to offer insight or help you steer the conversation back to E. You might say things like, "There are many good ways to raise a child" or "I get the details about A from SIL. Currently E is up to..."

It is natural to compare. It is hard not to look at my nieces and nephews and not compare them to my similarly-aged stepkids. My sks went straight from HS to college whereas 2 of my nieces/nephews almost didn't make it out of HS and another did drop out and go the GED route. I have heard grumblings in the family that their parents are jealous or the kids are and my response is, "The sks have worked hard for where they are and we worked hard to get them there. If you are jealous, then perhaps you should look at what you can do differently from this point forward."

I would also try to steer the grands where they are. If they are hands off grands, then maybe they will later appreciate E at the theatre or at a ball game or somewhere they can cheer her from the stands. If you are not used to asking and expect them to offer, then maybe start asking. "Grandma, can you hold E for just a moment?" See how they respond to a direct request.

Some people are just clumsy in how they try to connect with other people. I get the sense that things have always been tense for you with your in-laws, and now adding motherhood into it with a sister-in-law that has a baby the same age as your own adds a new dimension to that tension.

I have a feeling that your MIL is just trying to find common ground with you, and one of the only ways she can do that is by comparing her two grandchildren that she knows are the same age. It's natural for her to do that. They have different personalities, their parents are raising them differently, but those things are normal... consider the fact that you only see them rarely but your SIL (her daughter) sees her very, very often. So she's not just comparing babies, she's also catching you up. She's recognizing differences which might come across to you as jabs and criticism... but are they really? Or is it just discussion?

I get the feeling that it's not easy for your MIL to talk to you. I get the feeling that she may think that you offend easily and there aren't very many topics that are safe to discuss with you. I suggest opening up the discussion a bit and giving her a little leeway. Offer up some new topics. When your niece is brought up, talk about your own child.

"Oh, that's nice, Mom... Clara hasn't crawled yet but you wouldn't believe how many words she can say! Her pediatrician is quite impressed. I was thinking it might be nice if we all went to the zoo together next week... I know, it's an extra visit but it would be so nice to get together and for Clara to see you and Dad more often. We could even pack a cooler and bring our own picnic."

My own mom does this! Every time I talk to her on the phone or every time she comes to visit she gushes over my brother's two daughters. One is the same age as my little one (3). It's really annoying and I find myself fighting jealousy. I really wish all the grandparents out there who do this would stop and think before such things come out of their mouths. I don't have advice for you. I just tell myself my mom does not think before speaking (on anything) and is clueless. I also tell myself she'll be dead one day so I better just enjoy what is good about her. Then I grit my teeth and say "that's nice". For many reasons i do not enjoy spending time with my own mom...it's sad. I'm going to go read your other answers now.

Aw, I can totally feel for you. I don't think you are being TOO sensitive, but I do think you are being understandably sensitive. From what you write, the comparison thing I think is normal. My parents and inlaws do this, too. I think it's just a reaction- they'll see my kid do something and it reminds them of another grandkid and they just say it. I don't think it is intended to be mean, just clueless. And I love how you put it- you want your daughter to be the spotlight when they are there- that makes total sense, and she should be!

As for the other zingers, well, was MIL a SAHM? Perhaps they are judgmental about that. Again, with my MIL, she never passed up an opportunity to point out what I should be doing with my baby or what she used to do. That's the harder one to stop, I just learned to say "oh" and move on.

But I would say "I'm sure you don't realize you do this, and I know that when E does something it probably reminds you of something that A did, but it's hard to always hear about A. I'm so happy you are visiting E, and would love for her to have the spotlight while you're here!". I think that would be fine to say. Who knows, maybe that will make her more sensitive to other things she says and help everything!

I will say, I was much more sensitive about what people said when my daughter was a baby. I think I was building my confidence as a mom, so I was always more defensive and sensitive. Now that she's almost 13, I'm pretty unshakable. Just recognize what is going on with you, that her comments bring up any slight insecuritites that you may have. Know that is normal and then take a deep breath and let it go- knowing that you are a great mom and have a happy, healthy baby.

Good luck!

I think Dana has put a finger on at least part of the problem. If these were your own parents, they would know you better and probably feel freer to interact with you and your baby.

(And as Krista has said, if you listen to her too seriously, you'll go insane!!! Great comment, Krista!)

Three other thoughts occur to me:

1. It's almost impossible to love all babies equally. They are unique individuals, as are we. Even parents find themselves having favorites, no matter how hard they wish otherwise. Your in-laws may appreciate your daughter more at some other stage in her life, but could be rather intimidated by her high-energy personality now. I would not be a good person to care for a high-energy child, even if this were a grandchild whom I loved.

2. These grandparents might also gush about your baby to A's parents. Babies are an easy topic for lively conversation.

3. Consider the source. These are older people who are many years out from raising their own kids. They may think themselves experts because they've been there, but honesty, I'm 65, and since my grandson was born, I have had to brush up on many aspects of child rearing (and find some far more enlightened today than the general expectations that existed when my daughter was a baby). So when they think all 10-month old babies should play by themselves, they really don't know how unusual and unrealistic that is. But that's good information for you – you certainly wouldn't want them caring for your child by expecting to play by herself.

Finally, as difficult as this is to hear when we're suffering over other people's attitudes and behavior, a great deal of that suffering is firmly lodged in our own thoughts.

Often, we are afraid that the comments and judgements are somehow deserved, even though we consciously fight that suspicion with our own opposing thoughts. The internal war that ensues is confusing and dispiriting if we don't understand our part in it. I used to do this with my mother's judgements until I finally realized how very different we are, and that there is no way in this life for my mother to truly value or respect me (unless she needs me to do something for her). Once I got that, life got easier/happier instead of harder/sadder. Now she sends one of her zingers my way, and I just smile at her, maybe even nod and repeat her comment. It is what it is.

Wishing you well.

Ugh. Been there. I put up with a lot of the same kind of judgements. Just like you, I tried to be understanding and bit my tongue till it almost fell off.

I had inlaws who farmed and had 2grandsons near them, but the worst part was the 2 Amish boys that lived next to them. Their life mirrored the life they led when they were young. We got to hear all about them, oh joy.
My kids, on the other hand, grew up techies. Lived in the big city. Very different. One day while we were visiting grandpa was complaining about my boys not doing something or not playing with the Amish boys and the fact they didn't really want to. I said, what do you expect when all they've heard is how great those kids are and how wrong they are? He was totally surprised. Blindsided. I think in his mind, he was not near as bad as he was about it. He rethought a few things from there on out.

I wont say it cured things but it was better. They don't really want to spoil their relationship with you or your daughter but resentments will take a toll.
You have to have a brief but honest conversation. Better to have it now before your daughter notices.

Some points:

We love you. We get jealous over the amt of time you get to spend with A and we would love you to have as good a relationship with E.

In order for that to happen, we would love for you to watch her for a night maybe once a month. Would you do that for us?

Maybe you could say, I love it when A gets to see different things, could you take E to the zoo so she could have that experience with you?
I have friends whose grandparents love doing things like that with their grandchild. What things would you like to share with her? When can we schedule that?

Then theres the direct approach. Mil, FIL, I am sensing some disapproval in your tone and conversations about our parenting choices. Is there an opinion or something you would like to discuss? Because its starting to affect my feelings and I'd rather be open and honest about things instead of letting little hurts grow. I know how much you love A but I think E is getting the leftovers of your grandparenting. It hurts our feelings when you have so little to say about E and so much about A. Could we change that?

Good luck!

I understand where your coming from. I feel the same, but I just stay away from my children's grandparents in general. I don't need to feel even worse or notice how different my children will be treated compare to the xwife's or my husbands brothers gf son.
I find it easier on myself to keep my distance, I may feel sad and neglected towards how my children are treated but I don't need added stress in my life it's not worth it. You can't win this, you just have to comply. ;-)

Rather then look for "zingers to throw back at them", why not have an actual conversation with them about this? Why not say "sometimes I feel like you are comparing E and A and it makes me feel like you are not really concentrating on E and getting to know her for who she is". and if you want them to baby sit, ask. And do you know for a fact that when the grandparents are with A that they are not gushing on about E in the same way?

I am afraid you may be over sensitive and you are seeing their comments through your eyes rather then through theirs.

The best thing to do is to tell your husband how you feel, he may feel the same and you not know it. This was our case, as I finally snapped and told him everything I felt about how his mom (his dad is not in the picture) and step dad gush over their drug head daughter's child and never even ask how ours is. It's always been a competition on her part to "one up me" on everything. The day I gave birth (at 20) she announced she was pregnant (18). So our children are exactly 9 months apart. After that...omg... All I every hear about is how the daughter's children are, and they do this and that and on and on. We used to live 5 min away from her and saw her all the time 2 years ago we moved 45 min away. Since then they have been here once! I asked my husband to not call to see how long it would take for them to call and check on my daughter or ask to speak with or see her. After a little over a month, I finally just let my daughter call them. I'm used to my mom calling every other day at the least to check on her or wanting to see her.
Come to find out after I told my husband, he said growing up it was the same way. His sister (younger than him) was always put first no matter what it was. Said his mom never came to any of his ballgames, but never missed hers. He's straight and narrow, never done drugs or anything bad, she is horribly on drugs, constantly puts her children in danger and this drama seems to just make her mother love her, I think she thrives off the drama also. As we never go anywhere or do anything.

I would be VERY upset.

In terms of the comparing, nicely ask them to stop. In whatever way you are comfortable. Verbally at the time? In a letter? When they first come to visit?

In terms of them not watching E, oh well, their loss. A baby is a JOY. Too bad for them.

In terms of going out to eat and they don't offer to hold E, that is very rude. Stop going out to eat with them. Or be direct and say would you please hold her so I can eat?

Or write everything you said here in a letter to them asking them to improve.

In terms of the snide comments about you working (subtly stated) - call them on it. Say I am really happy SIL doesn't have to work and gets to take her baby alot of places, but when you keep saying these things to me, it makes me very sad. I wish I didn't have to work so I could be with E all the time, but it's not possible. When you say these things, it hurts me. Can you understand?

Have a talk with hubs about how you feel.

Good luck! Hopefully they will improve their behavior. They may not fully realize. If A and E are the first grandchildren, chances are they don't know what to do/how to act. If you'd like them to help more, why don't you ask them? Say how would you like to babysit so hubs and I can go out?

As a note, my parents and in-laws did not do much "babysitting" for me until the kids were a little bigger. Babies are alot of work, and also can get attached to the parents. That said, they absolutely helped me, so I dont think you're wrong to expect that.

Do u truly want them more involved? Consider this before pursuing the "when u...I feel" route bc u might be annoyed if they are there more often. They probably don't know how to relate to you so be as patient and polite as u can. Have hubby lead the way on how u do things. Going out to eat will get annoying as baby gets to toddlerhood. Could he ask his mom to bring a meal next time, maybe she will feel more useful. They might think they couldn't calm a fussy baby for u to eat. Both of my kids would get worse if the once a month grandparents took them from moms arms.