If you were friends with a family, had kids all the same age who were polite, played well with each other, and you genuinely enjoyed the company of these people, how would you feel if years into the friendship they mentioned that the father was a tradtional skinhead, and that the mother supported him on his views? Tradition skinheads are NOT racist, they stand for the blue collared, working class hero, but are a notoriously, stereotypically, a pretty violent group.
Would you continue to be friends? Would it bother you? You your curiousity be piqued and would you ask questions? Would you cut them out of your lives indefinately?
Again, they REALLY aren't racist ;)
Working class hero... meaning 'we may not be rich, but we work hard for what we have and take pride in it'. They are mostly violent against people who live like trailor trash and don't take any pride in themselves. (Here I would assume that it's one of those 'hey man, take care of your stuff', 'effe you, who are you to tell me what to do', punch punch punch type of things). I know that this families children are not directly exposed to the beliefs, but they are taught the principle of taking care of what they own (I mean, who doesn't do that anyway?) The kids go to a very diverse school; I know racism is absolutely NOT what they're about.
In regards to the question about 'tradional skinhead vs ??'... there are obviously VERY racist skin head groups out there. I guess every 'gang' has different divisions? Kind of like biker gangs... you've got the Hells Angels who will kill you if you stare at them wrong, then other biker groups who ride to raise $ for charities.
I don't have an opinion one way or the other, but I'm kind of bummed by some of the answers. These people haven't been hiding this information, I mean, how often does 'hey, are you a skinhead?' come up in a conversation? I believe the opportunity never really presented itself.
What if you were a republican and your friend was a democrat? And you both had COMPLETE opposite views? How is that any different than this situation? Or if you'e catholic and a friend is baptist?
I think if I found out something like this about my own friends after several years of knowing them, I would question my OWN judgment and wonder why I never picked up on it. Yes, it would bother me! I probably wouldn't ask too many questions, but I would definitely distance myself from them, particularly since there are children involved. I would also wonder what else there could possibly be about them that I don't know.
any skinhead is racists to a certain degree- but so is any politician every body has some sort of prejudice we don't admit it but we do.
The question is would you be friends, as long as he keeps the violent behavior out of my world away from my family I could say probably. My DH has some friends of his that are shall we say "questionable" but as long as they keep that stuff away from my family they are welcome anytime.
uh...no. Yes it would bother me. Not really curious and yes.
I don't like the concept of exclusion, superiority and, generally an us vs. them mentality.
The Nazi party promoted itself as a peaceful group, making changes for the working class, too.
As far as shunning people BASED on my dislike of "exclusion" (ironic, I know) it's just that there are some extremest groups who's discrimination IS so exclusionary--I must exclude them!
R.--based on your SWH update...what Americans DON'T work hard and take pride in what they have?
I just don't "get" why they are called "skinheads" if they do not actively promote/engage in the violence against another part of society.
Does he support the viewpoints or is he an active member of a group? I am extremely liberal in my viewpoints and have an equally diverse group of friends. That said, if he and/or she is a participating member of a violent group, that is a deal breaker for me. Maybe before kids I could look around it, but for my family, its a no-go.
I have to add that you asked our opinions, don't let them bum you out because its not what you wanted to hear.
Wow, I don't really know that I buy the "not racist" thing. And I don't know that I understand "stand for the blue-collared working class here" - are they lobbying on Capitol Hill? I think not. A viloent group? Well, is he violent? Is she? Are their friends and neighbors? Even if not around you?
Yes, I would ask quesitons and be curious. But, I think I woudl proabbly skip out on the friendship thing. There are some moral boundaries I can't see, especially when it comes to putting my children in contact with others they could see as role models.
I would not genuinely enjoy the company of these people. I don't believe for a minute they aren't racist. I am not curious. I know all I need to know. I would not let my kids be around the parents. I would not let my kids spend the night at thier house or go places alone with them.
I would let my kids play with thiers as long as I supervised. Not just beacause of what thier parents believe. I always sit outside with my kids when they play with the neighbors kids. I tell my children to respect other peoples right to thier own beliefs. I wouldn't tell them to devalue thier friends viewpoint, but I would tell them that's not what we believe in this family. It would be a great topic starter for me to continue teaching my children about racial equality and bias, as well as respecting other people.
I agree with the idea of making an informed decision. I would find out as much as you can about their beliefs and make your decision based on your feelings then.
I personally would not like the idea of adult role models around my child that believed violence was the answer to dealing with their problems or believed that people who did not follow their standards were "inferior people". I would be concerned about what they believed was an acceptable solution to an given situation or what would happen if they decided my family was inferior too.
Good Luck. I am sure this will not be an easy decision.
My MIL isn't racist in her mind. She just doesn't like all the mexicans taking over our country and the blacks bleeding it dry. and the interracial marriage.
and people showing their multiculturalism and rubbing it in our faces.....etc...etc...etc...We are REAL americans. That is what she says.
But her beliefs towards nonwhites are what proves she is racist. Her denials mean nothing.
I don't know what it means to be a "traditional skinhead" - vs. what other kind? All of these groups claim to be "standing for the common man" and so on, and no one actually labels themselves as being racist. They just think they are right.
It's interesting that you have known them for years and never had a clue about their values. Were they hiding things?
You have 2 choices - find out what they really believe and make your stand, or ignore it and hope for the best since things have been okay up to this point.
If you say this group is traditionally violent, I would find out right now if they have weapons in the home. I do not allow my son to play in homes with weapons. Period. Too many accidents happen when kids are intrigued by guns.
Does fit the sterotype? Is he racist? An anti-semite? Is he violent? Does he accept that the people he associates with are racist, anti-semetic and violent? You can't really know without asking him directly. And there is nothing wrong with asking him questions. He himself may not be violent but there is that old saying - show me your friends and I will tell you who you are. I think it means a lot here.
It's your decision whether to be friends or not. Can you accept that part of his life? Or does knowing this make you feel differently about him and his wife? Your feelings will lead you to actions. Either you will turn your head or you will slowly remove yourself from their lives. It's up to you.
I think it would bother me to only learn this information years into the friendship. What else are my so-called friends hiding from me? How well do I really know them after all?
I would probably have a super "OhmiGOD! Larry and Fran are SKINHEADS!!!" conversation with my husband and think long and hard about continuing the friendship. Maybe I would be comfortable with an occasional backyard barbecue, but not situations where I or my family might be exposed to uncontrolled hatred or violence.
This is America and people can believe what they want to believe. But I don't need to endorse it! I can't imagine my curiosity being particularly piqued because they would have an agenda, so I would not be getting information, just rhetoric.
I think that how people behave is more important than what they say they believe. Our values show up in our actions. You have spent time over several years with this family and their behavior hasn't been a problem. I would ask some questions and see what happens over time. I do have some friends with different views - religious and political, and it sometimes leads to interesting discussions/debates. As long as they are open to differing views, it could be OK.
One concern I might have is that your kids will be having these conversations with their kids, too. You'll want to be aware that your kids are hearing differing views and you would want to share your views and be sure that they feel open to discussing these things with you.
If you sense any problems, then you can decide to end the friendship.
As long as he isn't violent then sure why not.
All my friends have different viewpoints on life, society, religions, lifestyles etc. I don't feel my friends have to be exactly like me in my viewpoints. I like that we're all different, and really nothing like that has ever gotten in the way of friendships.
One of my good friends is a "traditional" and you wouldn't even know it. He's entitled to his viewpoints and I am entitled to mine, and it doesn't get in the way of our friendship, in fact we don't even discuss it.
Good Luck.
As long as they are not preaching any radical points of view at get togethers, I wouldn't cut them off.
Dealing/living with diversity means not huddling together in little like minded groups.
I joined the NRA not because I agree with them on most issues but because some of the more radical elements within the organization need other members to tell them they are nuts. Working for betterment/change from within the system is the great American way.
I would let my curiosity get the best of me and ask lots and lots of questions. I wouldn't cut them out of my life as long as they are good people.
I don't know that I would ask too many questions - that might make them think you are a potential convert! I would ask them about their own personal viewpoints - not what the group at large espouses but what they believe and do. Are they violent? Do they allow weapons? I would not allow my child to go without me into a home with a weapon. I also don't know how I would feel about people that know about or condone violence on potentially innocent people. I mean fist fights are one thing but if they belong to a group that's doing much more than that, I don't know. If there isn't any violence present, I would still be their friends. I don't think it's right to have all black groups like black fraternities or black singles groups but I have several friends who belong to groups like that! That's their choice.
If they aren't racist, and they are not trying to "convert" you then, I say let it lie and just enjoy your friendship. I'm friends with some Republicans, but I'm a Democrat (usually, though it does depend on the candidate). We don't talk about politics or public policy, or, if we do, it's a friendly disagreement (nothing heated).
