Follow up to Checking in with Mom

Brook A, Rosebud, Jen, and Patty K. THANK YOU! Dang! Some of you on here treat parents and in-laws with such distaste! Keep living...

If I remember, the problem wasn't that you didn't *ever* want to call, but that you felt that they demanded it and harassed you if you didn't, right? You felt like you were being treated like a child.

There's something in Harriet Lerner's "Dance of Anger" ( a self-help book which reframes and identifies anger as not necessarily a negative emotion but as something which happens to be a potential catalyst for positive change) which she refers to as 'change-back' behavior. This is from a short article by Lerner, I'll put the link below it:

"As I explain in The Dance of Anger, the process of change goes like this: One person begins to define a stronger, more independent self, or does something that violates the roles and rules of the system. Anxiety rises like steam. The opposition invariably goes like this:

1. "You are wrong," with volumes of evidence to support this.
2. "Change back and we will accept you again."
3. "If you don't change back, these are the consequences," which are then listed. "

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-dance-connection/...

Check out the entire article; I think this is just where you are right now. You are asserting some independence and individuality, your own preferences for being an adult and your family is angry that you are challenging the 'norm', however unhealthy it may be. Keep working toward finding your own voice and needs... there will come some times ahead where/when you will feel compromise is a reasonable option, but for now, just starting to separate from your parents, this will be difficult. Hang in there... it does get better! Find some support, either through a codependency support group or a counselor. Good going forward.

And I have to disagree, respectfully, with Julie G. There are those of us who do have the capacity for adult discussions/conversations with our parents. I had to earn it with my dad, through a lot of hard work, and it was worth it. My mother refused the conversation-- it had to be only on her terms-- we haven't talked in 13 years now. (Ack! I should also mention that she's very mentally ill, so her reaction is pretty atypical.) Her choice, not mine-- but when we stay stuck in subservient child mode only to please our parents, we risk losing the ability to grow as people, and that's a price simply not worth paying. I refuse to sabotage myself because someone refuses to accept me as an adult and an individual.

I'm sorry, but I would not do this. They are punishing you for being an adult. They are punishing you for asking them to stop trying to manipulate your life.

Ignore this. Stand by what you said. If you give in to this, they will do it more and more about other things.

There is no reason that you can't be the one who picks up the phone and calls from now on, when it is convenient for YOU. SO WHAT if they don't pick up the phone and call you anymore? And since you go over and visit often, why do you need to call them anyway? Just talk when you're over there.

Stand up for yourself. If you don't know how to do that, you need counseling. It's one thing to know that there is co-dependency involved here. It's another thing to walk away from it.

And so what if they are mad at you? If you can't "stand" for them to be mad at you, then you haven't grown up yet. You're in your 40's. You don't HAVE to care that they are mad at you when what they are mad at and how they are acting is totally inappropriate. Stop letting this get to you.

I love my mother very much, but I wouldn't put up with this. I simply wouldn't.

What Laurie said.

They are going to wait till you call them? I think that will last 2 months at the longest. I would enjoy the heck out of it while it lasted!

You teach people how to treat you. By the way you react, you will teach your parents how much you meant what you said. I would be very calm and normal every time I choose to call. Like WWIII never happened. Like you had normal parents. Like you would want them to treat you. It's your chance to show them the relationship that you want.

You get to choose how you feel about this. Right now, it may be, I love you, mom, but you can't control me. Not even with silent treatment or pouting. I know you wish it were different. It can be different. But you have to be strong. Try thinking about your children when they get your age. Say you have a DIL or a sil who is expected to call and check in with their parent at 40. Really?? That's ridiculous. And we are not just talking about checking in, we are talking a whole stinking conversation, when life is happening around. Isn't that a bit much catering to adult's needs? Or shall we say, treating their anxiety.

I have a 22 yr old. Life has been a constant adjustment of finding our boundaries while he grew apart. I have been weened! It can be done.
It will be difficult but you deserve your own life, hun.

Being a healthy adult means acting and reacting as an adult.

Would you EVER treat your child/children like this? No of course not. You want your child to be able to grow into an independent person. You want them to be able to state what they need and then the 2 of you have a conversation about it, but you would honor what an adult tells you.

These conversations are not taken personally and not given to upset the other.

Each of us must have boundaries. We must know that we will always love each other. But we also must respect each other.

You are an adult now. You are not a young child. Your parents have not come to grips with this. They for some reason seem to think they still need to parent you, when actually that ended a long time ago.

My mother told me a long time ago. "You will always be my little girl. I will never want you to be unhappy, to be hurt, to be frightened, but I know you are an adult and if you need help, you will ask."

If my my mother has a concern about me, she will tell me. "I am concerned that you seem unhappy, frustrated.." (whatever.) "Do you want to talk about it?" If I tell her No.. she honors that..

My mother also has her own life. She is not dependent on me to fill her days or to keep her informed on every little thing. She has friends and other family members her age and older and they are busy with each other.

You are allowed to set boundaries. Especially since you now have your own family. This is healthy.

Your parents are pouting because they are not used to this independence from you. They think they have been wronged, instead you are setting healthy boundaries and they are the ones that are acting like spoiled children.

You can react anyway you want. With guilt, with anger, frustration, or with a resolve, you are not going to get pulled into their drama and control.

It would make me mad that they are taking away my energy.. trying to make me feel guilty, when I need my energy to go towards my husband and my own child.

Parents should be there to help our lives be easier, not to be harder.

I know all of this is so hurtful. I have people in my life that have devastated me. Brought me to sobs and placed me in bed, I was so shut down from their treatment.

I do not deserve this treatment, I know that, but sometimes, I needed a professional to reinforce, these people are the ones with the problem and it is not my responsibility to try to make them happy.. or to fill THEIR needs. That is Their responsibility.

I still struggle with this. I love making sure everyone is happy, taken care of, and like me.. But I need to make sure I take care of myself, my husband and daughter first.

Be strong.. Seek help and guidance. It is wonderful to have an outside professional help you sort through your feelings and thoughts and help you come up with your plan.. They are pouting.. Give them time and go on along as though this is not a big deal to you.. They will get it together.

I just went through something very similar: only child, very close to parents, protected, etc. This is not WW3, but a small step to gain independence. They are entitled to their reaction. They are afraid. Of course they don't understand because you're changing the game and now they don't know how to play. My mom's reaction was the same: "I'll never contact you again." Histrionic much?

Do not try to make it right if you truly do want the system to change. Allow them to be afraid because that is beginning the process of letting go. I adore my parents. I wrote them a long email (per my mother's request because she acknowledged she couldn't be rational in person or on the phone) and stated how their love, concern, and giving nature were not allowing me to grow up. And isn't that the goal of us parents? To provide roots and wings?

Its going to be strange for a while with them. You need to get very clear about what you want, which for me was the toughest part. There are so many benefits in staying child-like - but, it become less worth it, because wanting to feel great about me while having an adult relationship with them became everything. You may have to really tease out the boundaries for yourself.

It will work out: as long as you stay clear and allow them the time to get used to these new boundaries. Very courageous of you in taking this step!

I actually expected that. So what I would do is put on my big girl panties and call them when *I* wanted to talk to them and ignore their tantrums. Because that's what this is. They were asking you to call constantly, right? Basically you couldn't go out without checking in with Mom and Dad, or calling when you got home, etc.? It was invasive to your life. You have the right to say, "No more".

Let them simmer for a while. If you feel a lot of anxiety because you laid down a very reasonable adult request, then talk to a counselor about it. You're shaking the status quo and it will take time to get to a new normal. To turn it around on you is just a way to control, to lay blame, to not take responsibility for how their behavior made you feel.

ETA: for those who say, "Oh, why don't you call?" Please read her first question. They asked her to call ALL THE TIME and are really intrusive. She's a grown woman with her own life and kids. It's control, not love.

You're NOT wrong, and you shouldn't call. They KNOW you can't stand for them to be mad at you, which is exactly why they are doing this!

I have seen this my whole life with my mom and one of my sisters. Mom gets mad at sister, gives sister complete silent treatment. Sister caves, because mom knows just how to manipulate here. Cycle repeats.

The only way this cycle is broken, is if YOU actively break it. Of course, they will be mad. They need you to fulfill this dependency. Think of it like alcahol. If they were addicted, they would freak out when it's gone. With time, they would grow to learn alcahol was poison to them.

I suggest you get a counselor, who can walk you through to steps of breaking this addiction. It will absolutely be steps, and you will also learn coping skills. Just remember, you are not responsible for their actions. If they act like children, you do not have to recognize or react to their behavior.

I actually sought a counselor some years back. My mom has resented me almost my whole life, because I would not be in this codependent relationship with her. I was never as important as my sister. I was never as loved, liked, etc. I always thought there was something wrong with me, but it was HER issue. I know we have different situations, but seeing a counselor really opened my eyes to how unhealthy and damaging codependency is.

Okay... remember that you just upset the balance of their world. You expanded the boundaries of their separation from you by explaining to them directly what will and will not occur when it comes to how you'll communicate with them.

They're throwing a temper tantrum, punishing you for establishing a boundary, much like a toddler does hoping that you'll give in so that the tantrum will stop. It's also much like when you bring a toddler to preschool for the first few days and the toddler cries because they're experiencing the exact same thing: Separation Anxiety.

You're not wrong. They'll learn that they can't live with the extremeness of their, "Oh yeah? That's how you want to play it? Well then if you're going to set up boundaries with us then we won't call you AT ALL!" Either that, or they'll realize that you do call them often enough and you're a good daughter and it feels good that they don't have to sit by the phone full of anxiety wondering when you're leaving and arriving and about to call all the time.

Perhaps what you can do to help ease their anxiety is schedule a once or twice weekly (or however many you're comfortable with) phone call with them so that they can anticipate when you'll call.

You have pushed your boundary "muscle" and now it hurts!

Sometimes we have to learn how to live with our parents' disapproval or rejection and be OK with it.

I think you need a neutral person to talk to - someone who can help you stay strong in your stance. I'm not saying you should be mean or reactive to them, but I wouldn't cave in either. And if they do call or come back around just be nice without being manipulated.

Good luck - I know you must be in a very uncomfortable place. Hang in there.

ETA: IMHO parents of adult kids do not have the same status as spouses of adult kids. And if the adult child *does* mind having to check in then a thoughtful parent will back off, just as they would with any OTHER adult. It's a matter of respectful boundaries. JMO.

ETA2: Wow, I loved Laurie A.'s answer. Re-read that one.

I had to go back and read your other post. When I first read this I thought you were being really harsh. Both my parents are gone and I wish I had someone to call when we get home from a trip!

Well you're certainly NOT being too harsh, in fact you might have to be even more direct. I think this has a little to do with the checking in and a lot to do with being criticized, controlled and manipulated by your Mom. If this is primarily a problem with your mother I think you should speak with her alone. It's a lot easier for them to band together with their guilt tripping indignation than it would be if you had a heart to heart with just your Mother.

Tell her it hurts you deeply when she constantly tells you your parenting differently than she would or gives you unsolicited advice that's laced with criticism. I'm sure my Mom disagreed with a lot of my decisions but it was a rare day when she would actually tell me she thought I was making a mistake. When she did I took it seriously because it came from a place of real concern, consideration and mutual respect. Your Mom needs to hear that it isn't about the phone calls it's about the way she's acting right now. That you cannot even express your needs to her as an adult and be treated with respect in return.

This is a really tough one but just try to be open and honest and hope you get through to her. Good Luck!

You're not wrong. I have a very similar relationship with my mother that now no longer exists because I stood up for myself. So just be confident in yourself and the decision you made to try to talk to them. I would have done the same thing you did.

Good job!

You've spent a lot of time building up so much anger at being manipulated for 43 years.
Unappreciative of their love?
You're emotionally held prisoner by them and you are suppose to appreciate it?
How much does any prisoner appreciate their jailer?
Your guilt is the degree to which you can not separate YOUR feelings from them - you need this separation.
You and they need a life separate from each other.
Make this right by pleasing yourself - not them.
Try contacting them no more than once a month.
Take a month off every once in awhile.
Do it until you are comfortable with it and feel no guilt and are healed.
How/if/when they heal is up to them and has nothing to do with you.

We had to set a schedule for Facetime after my parents bought us an ipad for Christmas. They want to facetime with my 6 year old all the time. It got to where she was texting and calling as soon as she knew I was home from work to facetime with us. I couldn't take it and had to tell her that we need our family time and wind down time and we could schedule 1 - 2 times per week to talk. They've respected that.

They're throwing a temper tantrum and if you give in to it, then you are giving them permission to keep on doing exactly what you don't want them to do.
What they are doing is the equivalent of a four-year-old holding his breath because he didn't get what he wants.

Stand your ground and use this as a break to reflect on how you really feel about this situation. Do not give in to their temper tantrums. If you do, the situation will just get worse.

Mom & Dad have always known how to control your behavior and they are freaking out because you're standing up to them.

How would I handle it? Give it some time and some space. Call them a few times a week (randomly) to chat. If they are cold on the phone, OK. "Have a good afternoon mom. I'll give you a call later in the week." and leave it at that.

Name calling your daughter? Wow. That's a new low.

This is decision time for you. If you allow them to guilt you into calling them every time you sneeze then be prepared to do it for the rest of their lives WITHOUT complaint. Bottom line. YOU are allowing this to continue, so if you choose to continue the behavior- stop complaining about it. If you choose to stop it and let them have their tantrum, then feel free to vent, complain, cry etc over their behavior.

I hadn't read your orignal post, but I remember someone else posting something similar something similar.
I think if you are not going to do what your parents want, they will continue giving you a hard time. They are very needy, it seems. So your choice is to do what they want, or to do what you want and accept them giving you a hard time. Call them as you normally would, don't mention them not calling and set the tone of the relationship as you wish. If you've done it their way, no matter how begrudingly, for all of your adult life, it will take them some getting used to.
If you can't commit to doing these check in calls, and you are too busy and would forget, then it's best not to make them because when you forget, the parents will worry. You are in your 40's. It is well past time for you not to check in with your parents every time you get in the car. I would never have been able to do that. They need to seek out help for their anxiety or whatever it is, and learn how to live with not knowing where you are at all times. That should happen when kiddults are college aged.
Reminds me of my inlaws, not about checking in while driving but early in our marriage, every time there was a snowstorm, a noreaster, whatever, they'd be checking in the next morning. These storms are not unusual where we live. It's snow or heavy rain, not a disaster and we did have to gently let them know that we just didn't need to spend time on "checking in" when it snowed. Nothing bad was going to happen, these storms were routine and if the house collapsed or something, we wouldn't be taking calls and would let them know.
Good luck.

I'm so sorry that this is causing you so much stress. Maybe it will help you to see it as a blessing that they won't be calling you. That can give you the space to heal and figure out your boundaries. It'll make you feel better about talking to them at all when it doesn't feel mandatory. Have confidence that your behavior is appropriate and that you are working toward healthier living for yourself. Also, know that change is going to be uncomfortable for everybody involved; there was no chance of this being smooth.

You've given them a heads up, and they responded. Does that change what is truth for you? Nope. Just move forward in your resolve, and talk to them when you want to. Please get some counseling so you can have consistent guidance from someone who is intimately familiar with your situation.

I read your other post. I see your point, and I see hers.

My Mom is the same, and while it can be frustrating to check in, I do it. Not because I have to, but because my Mom is a worrier. If I don't check in, she will be upset and tell my Dad to call my house, call my sisters, etc... just shy of calling the hospitals, because she doesn't know where all of her cubs are. She is this way with all of us that live in town. I will be 39 next week. The only one that she isn't this way with is my brother because he lives on the opposite coast with a time difference. When he lived near by, he got the same expectation.

I have given my friend's the same courtesy when I leave their house late or if there is a bad storm headed home. I don't call everyday, but I do work quite a ways from home, and so when there is a bad storm, I will call and check in with Mom, just so she knows that I am not the one in the accident on the highway. The way I keep it short, is that I call as I am pulling in the driveway. 'Okay, just letting you know I'm pulling in. Talk to you later". Most of the time that is sufficient. Yes, we did call on our honeymoon, we were traveling late at night. 'Hey, just getting here. We'll call you in a week!'

So now you are battling WW3. So don't call. See how much enjoyment and freedom comes from being independent. Just be careful, or like me, you will realize that it's been days since you talked to them. A month since you saw them. When you finally 'cave', you may find that they've had some event happen that YOU wanted to know about as soon as it happened, but no, you didn't check in, so you didn't find out.

Hey! You can see this as an opportunity to re-set it to how you want it to be and where you feel comfortable. In other words, if you want to call them the day before you leave, or whatever, and then the day after you return, set that pattern. If you don't want any pattern, then don't create one. They are mad at the moment, and that's fine, but take the opening to create the pattern that you are comfortable with and feel okay about that! Good luck!

Have specific days and times that you will call them (you set the schedule). If it becomes a regular and predictable event for them, they will start to settle down. Don't tie the calling schedule to trips, just to specific days of the week no matter what is happening in your life.

Hugs to you and sorry they are giving you such a hard time. You are not wrong.

Before cell phones it was a habit to call and let others know that we got home safely. Remember that your parents are from that generation.

oh sweetie. i'm so sorry that your outreach was met with such drama. i HAVE to hope your parents really love you to pieces, and that they will stop being such adolescents. stick to your excellent current plan (calm, loving, understanding, but insistent on your boundaries, and on being treated like an adult) and trust that they'll come around.
good for you!
khairete
S.

Be strong. Continue to be kind and loving to them, but you drew this line in the sand (and from your previous post, it seems reasonable; the calls sounded very controlling to me).

So, stay strong. Focus on your family and keep busy, busy, busy. Give your parents a week to cool off (or maybe two). Then, contact her like you normally do (to visit/chat). If she brings it up, or asks nasty, just say something like "I'm sorry you feel that way. I love you. I will call you again later." and end the conversation.

When people are used to getting their way and being in control, they will be angry when others try to take back control of their lives. So expect that you will have this conversation many times, until they accept the boundaries you're setting. Reiterate your position. If they get manipulative or abusive, politely end the conversation, let there be a cooling off period, and try again later. And keep holding strong!

I wonder if a quick call to reassure them upon your arrival is really worth all this angst.

Try not to think of it as their treating you like a child, but instead think of them worrying about the safety of the thing that is the most precious to them on the planet -- you. When you have grown kids, you will probably understand more.

I think you can acquiesce to their desires, with the condition that the call will be kept short, because you are tired at the end of your travel, and not in the mood to talk.

I understand that you want to feel like an adult, but a 1/2 minute call is not worth making WWIII over. And I don't think this is "codependency" -- you are not dependent, they are.

I think their current stance of not calling you at all is childish, but I still think you should go ahead and be the mature one and "cave," as you put it.

They love you.

Good luck.

Sorry it didnt go so well.

I would have done what I said before, not had a direct conversation about it, but instead weaned them of the calls.

Now that there is a war, I'm not sure what I would do. I would probably apologize, tell them I'm sorry if they feel disrespected, thank them for all of their support, and hope they can forgive. Then I would gradually wean them...so call the first time, but then the next give an excuse why you'll call the second day, etc.

I honestly don't believe you can have adult conversations with your parents. This isn't codependency, this is parents being parents. Instead of laying in bed worrying when you were a teen, they worry during the day until you've called. It isn't hard to meet their needs and your own needs, you just need to gradually shift the pattern.

In power struggles no one wins. In compromises, everyone wins. So I'd figure out how you can meet your needs and their needs.

I guess I am confused because I don't see the big deal in letting someone know you got somewhere safe. Do you worry about your children? That does not stop just because your baby is in her 40s. I would just make the calls, it is only 2 minutes out of my life and if it puts their minds at ease to me it would be worth every second. JMO.

My stomach is in knots reading this, because I know exactly how you feel. The best I can say is to follow through on your actions. You said you're not going to call them, so don't. But continue doing everything else. If you usually call every Sunday, keep doing it. If you call every other day, or go visit every other month- whatever it is, keep doing it, don't make any changes, and keep being loving and respectful.

But I will also add this: do whatever makes you feel best. I am forever calling my mom and apologizing for whatever imagined insult or slight she's crying about, and my husband is always standing right beside me, telling me that I'm giving in to her manipulations and I should stand up for myself. And he's right, but so am I. Most of the time it's easier just to give her what she wants, so we can all move on. She has no problem making everyone miserable when she doesn't get her way, so I have to decide if it's worth it every single time. And it's not fair, but it is what it is. You've made your decision about the "checking in" and you're not wrong. But if you decide it's not worth the turmoil, that wouldn't be wrong either.

Good luck, I feel for you.

You will miss her when she is gone and you would give anything to turn back the clock and happy to call. My father was like that, my mother too. So they worry about you when traveling. Have you not noticed about the crazies that drive out there. It never bothered me. My kids call me when they travel. It is a nice feeling being able to go to bed knowing your family got to where they were going safely. To me it was a non issue. Now it has become a big issue. Wonder how you will feel when your kids are grown.
My my world safety comes first. If I have to travel a bit, I always check,in
With my husband. I always let him know when I am on my way home. He does the same.