Crrrrrrramps

Dr. Steve Pilkington and Dr. Daniel McDonald are Catholic obgyns who do not perscribe birth control for their patients. I remember Dr. McDonald who delivered my first child telling me that putting people on the pill for painful periods just treats the symptoms but does not discover or treat the underlying causes of painful periods. I believe Dr. Pilkington is also certified in Na-Pro Technology which is groundbreaking work in discovering how different hormonal imabalances impact female fertility. Here's a link to a website about him:

http://www.healthgrades.com/directory_search/physician/pr...

Not a new suggestion, but just to add validity to what others have posted:

Red Raspberry leaf tea. It's cheap is you buy it in bulk through herbal stores. but Traditional Medicinals also sells it in as packaged tea bag.

Also, my mom used to have me drink ginger tea when I had really painful cramps as a teen. Just dissolve regular ginger powder from the spice rack in warm water with honey and lemon.

I am soooo sorry for her.

I been told way....way latter that it might help to go to see a ciropracter(please sp) to get 'adjusted'. It did helped me.

I would not put her on BC. The first thing to check is her intake of caffeine and sugar. The week before her period, both these things should be restricted. Caffeine should be removed from her diet completely.

Around the time of her period, get both motrin and tylenol. You will want to alternate these two meds every 4 to 6 hours for the first two days of her cycle. You may want to get her the meltaway versions of these meds to take with to school.

Make sure she is drinking plenty of water, a daily 8 oz of whole milk, and get her a multivitamin.

Good Luck!

I too sffered from severe cramps when I was a teen and into my early 20's. My mother did/does not believe you should take a girl to the OBGYN unless they are having sex, so I just suffered every month. I too would have to stay home from school some days or just try and suffer through the day at school. In my early 20's I started BC and it worked wonders for me. I would still have the PMS since I was on a tri-phasal pill, but I did not cramps like I had before. In my early 30's I started going to a doctor that had done MUCH research on BC and the female body. She first changed my BC from the tri-phasal type to the same dose of hormone every day which helped with my mood swings that were HORRIBLE. She then had me quit taking the placebo week all together. I never took them, unlike with YAZ and others where you take them every 4 months I think. Anyway, doing this helped with EVERY SINGLE ASPECT OF MY PMS. I quit having cramps, diaherra, mood swings, headaches, ect. And when I stopped taking it when my husand and I started trying for a baby, I was pregnant within a month and a half. Through her research she found that being on the BC like this was actually healthier for our ovaries because doing it like that, you are not having as many periods. Which women now are having more than women use to because we are starting periods at a younger age and stopping at a later age and not having as many kids. This doctor is also the doctor that established the Worth the Wait program used by many schools here in Texas so she does not advocate using the BC for pre-marital sex, but to help women ease their pain. She is a fabulous doctor and she helped me and my PMS out tremendoulsy.

With that beig said, I realize that BC pills may not be right for everyone. Other things that doctors have told me to do to help ease the pain was to exercise, drink plenty of water, and take calcium supplements. Drinking milk every day will help also because you are getting more calcium. Most people do not get enough calcium anyway and that will only help. The calcium assists in normal blood clotting and helps to maintain proper nerve and muscle function. And I will also agree with the switching the ibuprofen with tylenol. Ibuprofen helps with inflamation and tylenol is a pain reliever. Soaking in a hot bath and using heating pads also helped to ease my pain some.

My husband and I are trying for number 2 and my PMS is horrible once again. I wish things would work in our favor to get pg soon so I will then be able to go back on BC to help ease that PMS! I am miserable atleast 1 full week, if not two, out of every month. My cramps aren't as bad, but everything else still is. I wish your daughter luck to find something that is going to work for her because it is really and truly a miserable feeling! My sympathies are with her!

My daughter has found that putting one drop of clary sage essential oil (from Whole Foods)on her tongue gets rid of cramps in 10 minutes. You can also put drops in bath. The brand name is Aura Cacia. We do not use the 'Now' brand of any essential oils. Make sure it is 100% pure if you see another brand.

Red Raspberry Tea, Red Rasberry Liquid Drops (Vitamin Shop)

It will take time to kick in, but she should do the tea and the drops everyday...even eating red raspberries wouldn't hurt because they are good for all the feminine parts....

Now this isn't an overnight fix, but it will help...

Also there is a chiropractor who could help her...I understand not everyone likes chiropractors, but this one is a Master Herbologist, Master Nutritionist, and he could help her...he helped me...I would go in and see him when I was cramping and it took a month or two to start seeing the difference but there was a difference....

If you are interested his name is Dr. Alan Bonebrake
###-###-####--- he is at 12000 Ford Road, Farmers Branch TX
I cannot remember the suite number at this time, but if you go tell him C. Burson sent you.

Hope this help you and your daughter...I understand that that time of the month is misreable and I fully support no birth control....Dr. Bonebrake is anti-birth control as well...in fact I did not even try birth control pills until after my first son was born and even now I use a non-hormonal IUD because I don't like the extra hormones in my system.

some tips:

-a good quality liquid calcium/magnesium supplement
-a good quality fish oil supplement (salmon oil is good)
-plenty of water
-regular strength training/resistance exercise
-plenty of sleep (important for proper hormonal balance!)

HTH!
edited to add: i second the red raspberry leaf tea, too!

W.,

That was totally me when I was around that age. Don't know if your daughter uses tampons, but I was allergic to the kind I was using and they were making me sick and the cramps HORRIBLE. I use to sit on the toilet and lay my head on the clothes hamper and just sit there for hours because it was the only thing that made me feel better. I couldn't walk, eat, sleep...I would throw up...the pain was so bad that I couldn't focus on anything. I understand where she is coming from and I didn't want to be on the pill either because I didn't want anyone to think that I was on it for other reasons. Even after I changed tampons I still had cramps...I took midol and tylenol and that helped me get through the day at school. As I get older I still have cramps, but I can function with them now. Best of luck!

Obviously OTC anti-inflammatories such as ibuprofen-aleve-tylenol and aspirin. Heating pads help too. You probably know this already so-

Here's a few suggestions you may not know.

Chaste Tree Berry is a large shrub growing up to twenty two feet tall and is native to the Mediterranean and southern Europe. It is used exclusively for female problems. It balances the body-because it is an adaptogen which means it works through the adrenal glands-and in this case-the pituitary to produce adjustments in the body that normalize hormone imbalance. Another words it constrains hormonal excesses and encourages deficiencies. Because it encourages production of progesterone the herb has helped restore mestruation, regulate heavy periods, relieved PMS tension. Some also believe it is helpful for premenstrual breast tenderness. It can be taken as a tincture 20 drops once or twice a day is normal. Capsules or tea (one cup) may also be taken once or twice a day. Taken before bedtime may help improve sleep. It's slow acting and may take two or three months to see results. (www.morethanalive.com)

Chammomile is another soothing herb that can be used to relieve painful menstrual cramps and back pain.

Red Raspberry Leaf is known to alleviate or elminate cramps. It is rich in Vitamins C,E,A, AND some B complex. Increasted Vitamin A can ade the woman's immune system. It's also rich in potassium and phosphorus. It's a water soluable source of calcium and provides it well to young girls.

It aids in contraction of the uterus, control of pain,,, and replacement of lost blood. Tea is easy-ad one to three teaspoons of dried Raspberry leaves for every cup of boiling water and simmer for ten minutes.

SOS FOR PMS is a combination of Red Rasberry, Peppermint, Nettle, Oatstraw, Alfalfa, Chaste Tree berry, Cinnomen Chips and Horsetail. It's been reported to lessen monthly bleeding, and eliminate bloating, headaches and cramps!!!

To be taken each month-a few cups a day of this blend the week beofre and week of a woman's cycle. 1 teaspoon of the blend for every cup of boiling water and then steep while covered for 15 to 20 minutes.

I highly recommend these herbs. You can find them easily and this information plus more at www.morethanalive.com and you can also call 1-800-516-5911.

I hope this helps your daughter.

It can't hurt her and isn't birth control either.

God Bless!

My doc has me take 3 Naproxyn at a time. I also use the little stick-on, throw away menstrual heating pads made by I think Thermacare. You can get them at CVS, etc. Also, has she been checked thoroughly for fibroids, etc? You could check into endometrial ablation. It sounds like this is pretty debilitating & is not going to be good when she's going to college or trying to work & missing all that time. I would research to find an ob/gyn who specializes in excessive mestrual cramps.

W.,

I did not get a chance to look at the other responses but I have used "Aunt Flo - Cramp Relax" before and it worked. It is all natural and I bought it at Whole Foods.

I was the same way. I am now 43...she will survive. I know that is no consolation. These are things that my dr suggested to me. It will take some tweaking, but...

Take as much vitamin E that you can tolerate. I ended up with the 1000 level pills and it made a difference. Also, drink as much milk as you can. I don't what it is about that, but when I drank a good deal of milk, the pain was less. My dr also prescribed anaprox for me (OTC is alleve now). She told me to take 2 at onset and 1 more 2 hours later and then follow regular dosing. Regular exercise also made a big difference. Not sure why, when I played ball in the spring, I did better than the fall and winter when I didn't play any sports. It took about 6 months, but I was finally able to "make it through the day" and not miss any time at school.

If she hasn't seen an GYN it is probably time for her first visit. Check and make sure there are no Cysts in her uterus. I have an ongoing problem with those and have had a procedure every 3 or 4 years to have them removed. They are benign, but make my periods painful....

Try a chiropracter. Fusion Chiro in Frisco is good and could help her with the pain.

I have had severe cramps since I have been about 14. Here's what worked for me!
1- HOT bath to soak in
2- Those heating pads that stick to you (Thermacare I believe makes them) -- I used to stick them on the inside of my panties when I had to be at school.
3- I now take 4 Pamprins and they work -- read the labels on the midol and other stuff -- it's basically just tylenol or motrin.
4- I was on some sort of medication that I would take so many days after my period and it worked, but I can't remember what that was called --- sorry, it was about 12 years ago!
5- I don't know your reasoning for not wanting her to get on Birth Control, but at the age of 16, I finally had to do it. I couldn't take it any longer. I had to get a prescription from my GYN for my insurance saying what it was for, and they covered it. It worked WONDERS!!! If nothing else works, she needs to get on them. Now that I have had 2 children, I can now say that they are equal to contractions.... it's horrible! I know I don't want my daughter going through that!!! Get her some meds!

Either advil(ibuprofen) 3-4 at a time ask your doc the max that can be taken or chinese herbs (I think it's called Long Feng Bao).

I tried acupuncture, did not seem to help.

Also, hot chamomile tea & heating pads.

Ablation is not a good option because I think it does not allow a person to get pregnant in the future.

Take care.

I have always had horrible periods from the time I started at 12 until now. I am 32. It sucks. I am out of commission completely for 2 or 3 days every month. My suggestion is not birth control. That is what they tried for me, it doesn't work for everyone. The issue that I have (and possibly your daughter) is that my body produces too much of the hormone that causes cramps. I am not sure what it is called. They didn't figure this out until I had my daughter and one of the medications to induce is the same hormone. Not pitocin (sp?). What works for me is Midol or Pamprin Extra Strenght, heating pad, and laying in bed. Avoiding caffeine while cramping helps too. I don't like to drink water but I will, or Orange Juice. I also have a heart shaped uteris and that contributes to the pain. Unfortunately, there is just not much you can do. If she stays active, takes the midol or pamprin and you get her a good heating pad, she should be fine. Good luck. My 12 yr old just started hers yesterday and I am just hoping that she doesn't have the problems that I do. I will feel awful for her if she has to suffer the same way. Take care.

H. V.
H.'s Sweet Scents
Handmade Bath and Body Products
www.havenssweetscents.webs.com

To stop uterine contractions, use cramp bark tincture(which you can NOT overdo) as needed or every hour. Another way to stop contractions is to get in an epsom salt bath- epsom salts are magnesium sulfate, which is what they'd give you IV if you went into the hospital with preterm labor. They absorb well through the skin, so use plenty and soak a while. Besides that, the warm water will help you relax.
Epsom salts you can find an nearly any grocery store, but cramp bark should be available at a local health food store.

There is menstrual cramp medicine at the store, it is OTC, Midol and it worked wonders for me when I was a teenager learning to manage my periods.

Midol. The best thing for them. I am 62 and cramped horribly for 3 days per month, every month from the time I was 12 to the time I was 51. Midol is awesome. As for natural, my mom gave me a little rum in a little coca cola sometimes at night when I couldn't sleep they hurt so badly and that really helped too but I don't know if you would approve of that. It seemed to help relax the cramps though.

Hello.
When I was a teen, I also suffered from violent cramps which would cause me to be sick to my stomach and almost pass out. My doctor gave me a prescription, Anaprox (I think), that I was instructed to take as soon as I would feel them coming on. It worked wonders and helped me be funtional again. That was a long time ago but it may be something you might want to ask about. It seemed to be a much better option and birthcontrol simply because it was taken as needed.
Good luck...I can feel her pain. ;)

I don't have a natural remedy. However, I also suffered from really bad cramps. The only thing that worked for me was Aleve. It was the only way I could function at school and work for the first few days. Now that I am older for some reason my cramps or not as bad after having babies. Good luck!

Cramps that severe warrant a visit to a gynecologist. Cramping is normal - as is heavy flow the first few years after starting your menses - but if she is missing school 2 or 3 days a month that is too much!

There are other options besides birth control pills - we used to get young girls in our obgyn practice with horrible cramping.

Please if you haven't - get her checked my mom had endometriosis from her teens on and was infertile...

Has she been checked out really well, to make sure she does not have endemetriosis? My sister always had horrible cramping, and many women I know who do, usually have suffered from this also.

If not and it's just cramps... perhaps start taking ibuprofen a couple days before she is going to start, and then heating pad. Also something that may help is getting a good magnesium supplement- one that is cheleated... at a heathfood store or GNC. Solgar makes a really good one, you can purchase on line. Mg helps with muscle contractions. And with the way foods are grown these days it's a mineral that is depleted in the ground. But Mg oxide that is in most vitamins is not easily absorbed and used in the body.

Bloating can sometimes make cramps worse, usually we crave things the week before that can cause bloating- limit caffiene, salt and sweets and lots of bread...

Hope this helps.
D.

OK so I went on BC to control my cramps when I was a teen...it didn't work for me, in fact it made them worse. The only thing that helped was when my now Gyno told me a trick. If she knows when her cycle will start, then cound back 3 days and start taking 800 mg of ibuprophen 3 times a day. it keeps the body from producing the "item" that causes cramps. by this time I was on the pill and took it when I started the placebo week. I doubted it would work but the Dr. made a bet with me that I am glad to say I lost. After about a year of this I no longer needed the ibuprophen. it has been 8 years and 3 kids, and I still do not have cramps. Good luck, the Dr. I use is Dr. Gordon with the Omega clinic in Arlington.

I had the same thing as a teenager. Caffeine makes the cramps worse. No soda during that time. I also started taking motrin a day before I knew the cramps would start and it would head the pain off. My mom wasn't so nice. She said I had to get used to living life with a painful period. I am glad she did, because now when I have 3 kids and a day care to run, I get the cramps and know I have to deal. It teaches her that this too shall pass, just like life's other hiccups. Unless, of course it is endometriosis, then she needs help from the doctor. Good luck!

Hi, W.!

I soooo relate to this one! I would first recommend going to the dr to make sure it isn't something like endometriosis or thyroid problems. But, my mom and I have both had great success with increasing our calcuim intake...we started doubling our daily calcium intake (in vitamin form). But if you try this, make sure to split it up to two separate times per day as your body can only absorb so much calcium at one time. Try taking a calcium supplement (or doubling if she is already taking one) daily for a few months and see if she has any improvement.

Good luck!

You could try having her take an herb called Red Raspberry. It comes in capsule form and is easily available at most health food stores. Nature's Sunshine is an excellent brand. It's great for women's health all around. When I was a teenager, I had cramps that would lay me out for a day as well as some pretty extreme pms. When I would take Red Raspberry EVERY DAY all month, sometimes I would even be surprised when my period showed up because I had no symptoms leading up to it and no cramps. It just makes everything work the way it is supposed to. I now take it in pregnancy also. Worth a try and it's totally safe. You can also get Red Raspberry tea, but I'm not sure how much you'd have to drink to get the same effect. I usually take two a day. You could experiment with the dosage. I don't think you can overdo it unless you are taking mass amounts.

You might try a B-complex vitamin. I suggest a high quality one, like from Whole Foods. Start out at 100 mg.

Hello W.,

You have a lot of responses here and I haven't had a chance to read through all of them.

I have a botanically based skin care, health and wellness company. We have a natural hormone balancing cream that will help with this issue. It is a cream so you just rub it on the soft parts of the skin.

We are Vegan certified so no animal products or by-products.

If you'd like more info, I can email it to you.

I hope this info helps.

Take care and God bless!

M.

Best thing that worked for me and still does is to drink Hot cinnamon with milk or water and put a heat pad on my stomack.. it works wonders try it and tell me what do you think. Cinnamon is knows to be a muscle relaxant and that is why you are not supposed to drink it in the last trimaster of your pregnancy it makes your womb more relaxed and it workd with cramps. Hope it works for her

I would recommend Dr. Susan Linder-Cook in Fort Worth. She is excellent and uses bio-identicals, so no birth control pills.

Please tell her D. Bateman referred you.

Take your daughter to a gynocologist and have her checked out. They are professionals who do more than just prescribe BC and deliver babies. If your daughter is suffering from something more serious, they can help her and if they are just cramps then they can give her some choices to help her with her suffering each month.

W.,

I'll tell you my story. Not that you have to agree or listen but I'll put it out there....

I went through the same thing. Missing school (and later work too) because of debilitating cramps EVERY month. My aunt, not my mother, finally took me to a gyn. He said that it was more than likely endometriosis and that the birth control pill would be the only thing that could help. I told him that my mother was VERY opposed to me getting on the pill so instead he prescribed muscle relaxers. I went another absolutely miserable year because I could pop those muscle relaxers like candy and they didn't even take the edge off. I tried accupressure and pretty much every over-the-counter pain med I could find. When I turned 19, I went back to the gyn and got on the pill. I didn't need my mother's consent and outright told her that. After the first couple of cycles on the pill, I FINALLY got some relief. Being on the pill even helped with my horrible mood swings. I was pretty angry with my mother for making me wait because I had gone years in such misery and all it took was a couple of months on the pill and I practically had a new lease on life. In my early 30's, I ended up having surgery because it had gotten worse and if I wasn't on the pill I went downhill fast. I couldn't stand the pain any longer. As a result of that surgery, I was diagnosed as Stage 4 endometriosis, went through six months of medically-induced menopause, had another surgery to try to clean it up again, had to have my ovaries wrapped in a bio-medical mesh, and was told that, more than likely, I would never be able to have children. And I can't. I've had 4 m/c and my husband and I adopted a baby girl.

Don't do that to your daughter. Take her to a gyn and LISTEN to what they tell you. Its up to you to talk to your daughter and tell her that the pill is NOT permission to have sex. It is to help her. Herbal remedies do NOT help endometriosis. They might help some with the cramps and pain but it doesn't make it go away. Also, really, in all honesty, don't bury your head in the sand. If she's going to have sex, she's going to have sex. Whether or not she's on the pill isn't going to influence her decision. So.. ask yourself.. Is making her deal with the god-awful cramps and miss school every month because you don't want her to be on the pill really the best thing for HER?

I am 35 and I have suffered with cramps like you are explaining. This included pain shooting down legs, vomiting and heavy bleeding the first 3 days. I tried many things over the years and I suffered over 10 year of infertility (including 2 ectopic pregnancies that resulted in the loss of my fallopian tubes) so I would definitely go see an OBGYN. I have been reluctant about birth control my whole life, but after having my twin boys my life could not be disrupted by this anymore. It is an amazing difference! I would not change what I am doing for anything in the world. I experience no pain at all anymore! Please think about it if she is in that much pain and see the doctor for possible other problems.

not really - I understand your reluctance for BC, however after suffering from fibroids & horrible heavy bleeding and cramps there was no alternative. Alieve is your best over the counter med for cramps. But there's no herb to help.

Make sure to have her checked out. I had miserable cramps as a teen, including vomiting and diarrhea several days a month. Like you, my mother would not put me on bc. Once I got to college, I found that I couldn't afford to be misssing classes due to cramps. I finally went to the student health clinic and went on bc and what a world of difference it made!

As it turned out, I had difficulty conceiving and was later diagnosed with endometriosis. My doc said if I had not been on bc all those years, I probably would have been sterile. The bc kept the endometriosis from totally damaging my reproductive system. I only had stage 2, instead of stage 4.

Even with the bc, I still had cramps. The docs all said that Tylenol will do no good unless you start taking it before you get cramps. (Who knows when that will be?) A prescription strength of Naproxen was helpful (otc: Aleve) but the cramps never really went away until I had my kids. I would try those stick-on heating pads too, but if she is like me, it would only offer minimum relief.

Good luck; she really has my sympathies!

I get bad, but not severe cramps (and I'm twice her age) so it might not work AS well for your daughter, but it may be worth a shot. If I take a B12 vitamin (I usually take a B complex) regularly twice a day all month then my cramps, mood swings, etc are all MUCH MUCH more managable. Good luck to her!

I have suffered from severe cramps for the last 20 years. Not even the pill helped. The only thing that has helped me was the IUD. I also had to stagger pain meds, advil and tylenol alternating every 2 hours at max dose. Which I hate because I would rather go natural. (no alternative treatments worked for me) My former doctor used to think I was a sissy until I had the IUD put in. I bounced right up off the table ready to go immediately afterwards. They all freaked, said it should have hurt a lot and I could pass out. Nope! I felt fine. They believe me now.

W.,
My OB-GYN prescribed me a medication called Cataflam that really helped with cramping. It is not a "natural" solution, but it is also not hormones or BCP. You may inquire...it works a LOT better than any over the counter remedy or tylenol. Wishing your daughter luck!

Hi W.,

I just read your post and read a few of the responses. I can definitely understand why you wouldn't want to put your daughter on birth control pills, but coming from a person that from the time I started my periods until I finally had a hysterectomy at age 37, you have to think about what is really best for your daughter. You need to take her to an OB/GYN and have her checked. Dr. Peter Sakovich in Irving to me is the best, but that is just my opinion.
Like your daughter, I suffered in my teens from horrible cramps. My mom finally put me on the pill and I got some relief. I was finally diagnosed in my twenties with endometriosis and ended up having 5 laporoscopies to go in and clean it out every few years so that I could hopefully have kids. Which I did. I was lucky enough to have two wonderful kids. After my second child, I had a full hysterectomy and have been pain free since then. But if you don't get your daughter in and get her the help she needs, she may be in for a lifetime of hurt. Please at least take her in for a check up and hear what the doctor has to say. There may be other option available now too. I wish you and your daughter luck with this and hope she finds relief!

Try talking to your physician about this problem. Several years ago, my wonderful OB/Gyn told me that women should never have to put up with pain every month because of cramps. He prescribed 800 mg Ibuprofen - I have taken that for years. Also look at your daughters diet- try to watch the sugar and salt intake about a week before her period and throughout her period. Increase her water intake( a lot) It will help flush her system of all the water weight and bloating- it really helps make you feel better- Stay away from caffeine ( no soda) I have found that it increases the intensity of cramps- Hope this helps! I have had this problem and my daughter has this problem- some months she will have to stay home a day- but no longer- If she(your daughter) can do it, I think drinking the water really helps.

About me: SAHM to 3 kids 17, 14, and 12

I would check with an ob dr. I had severe cramps for years before an endorcrinologist dr. told me that I probably had endometriosis. He did laproscopic surgery and I had a severe case. Once the endo. was removed it made a world of difference.

Before that surgery the only thing that worked was taking meds like midol as directed from the moment the cramps started, before they became unbearable. If I skipped a dose, or if I waited until the cramps were bad, it was really hard to get them under control.

The ablation procedure is an alternative to a hysterectomy. Don't go that route.

You have got a lot of advice, and a lot I haven't heard of. I will tell you that the high does pain meds/muscle relaxers did not work for me. I was the same age (maybe a year younger) when it was prescribe. It took a "little" edge off the pain, but left me kind of dazed. Sometimes I missed a couple of days of school, sometimes I tried to fight it off. I hated it when I would miss an extra, like a band concert. But it hurt so bad I would vomit.
Mine didn't get better until the birth control and then it was still worse than most girls. There are many different kids of birth control, it is basicaly hormones...
Just before I turned 30 (after having my 2 kids) I had an ablation.
If she has not been to an ob, it would probably help. There could be a sist or something.

Hi W.,

I "feel" your daughter's pain, literally. I had the same problem when I was her age. My grandmother gave me iron pills and had me eat as many raisins as I could stand...fortunately, I love raisins! Also, what they didn't have then, but do now...how about the adhesive, heating pads, so sore muscles? I found that a heating pad worked great as it loosened the contracting muscle activity going on down there. Give it a shot...relatively inexpensive and essentially "natural." I hope it helps.

J. M.