Behaving Badly

:)

Eventually they go to college and come back a human.

Seriously my older daughter it came in waves. They are just testing the boundaries. My younger daughter is going through that now. I think she was around eight when I first looked into gypsies. By the way there are no band of gypsies in the midwest so far as I can find.

So I get the eight year old nonsense under control and by ten she figured out a new way to be defiant. Same thing at 14, 16, by 18 I didn't care if they were gypsies anyone could have her! Then she went to college and came back at Christmas a human being again.

Oh your husband needs to develop thick skin. They tend to lash out at those they love and trust. So take it as a compliment, she loves and trusts him not to turn on her. That is a good thing, you know?

Here is my outsider observation/question.

Why is it that you refer to the man in your/her life as your husband, not her step-dad or something similar?

Perhaps she is feeling the lack of his official position in her life. "What are you to me?". Have you discussed her behavior with her? I would try having a very "grown up" conversation with her. "John loves you, why are you treating him badly?" "Your behavior is very hurtful, why do you think you are acting this way?"

Could she be using this behavior to get YOUR attention? I know that when my single mother was dating I often felt like she had no time for me.

Just some thoughts.

M.

I hope you'll run, don't walk, to the nearest library or bookstore and get a copy of How to Talk So Kids Will Listen, and Listen So Kids Will Talk, by Faber and Mazlish. This little "workshop" between covers will show you practical and accessible ways to draw your daughter out, instead of just talking "at" her, and find out how SHE "feels" about her stepdad's place in their relationship.

A great deal of behavioral science reveals that virtually any problem behavior is a strategy (by child or adult) to handle some need. Until you know, and your daughter knows, what that need is, she'll probably go on employing strategies that are less than helpful. She really can't help it, as long as it's all on an "automatic" level.

But if she (or you or your husband) can gain some insight into the need being expressed and more helpful/creative ways to meet that need, the three of you have a better chance of finding a more workable solution. Using the approach offered in this brilliant book, kids themselves can become the catalysts for change and creative problem-solving, learning new life skills in the process.

As a mom who remarried a wonderful man, I suspect Donna is right about loyalty issues. My daughter's bio-dad was not a nice man or a supportive father, but he sure knew how to keep her emotions in a sympathetic uproar, especially following extended visits. I wish I had had this wise and wonderful book as a resource back then. (Good news, though: everything worked out great in the long run, and 30 years later, my daughter and her step-father are very close.)

I wish your family growth and happiness.

Hi, A.:

1) Your daughter may be beginning to have loyalty issues because she has a father and step-father. This does not excuse poor behavior.
2) Sit down with her and the family and write on a poster board the rules of the house. Everyone comes up with the Norms (rules) of what is expected.
3) With the norms add the consequences for each one. Ask her if they are in agreement with her. If not, they what would she suggest.
4) If this doesn't work, have a family circle including all family members involved in her life.

Have someone be the facilitator that will just ask these questions:
The offender will be asked these questions:
1) What happened?
2) What were you thinking of at the time?
3) What have you thought about since?
4) Who has been affected by what you have done? In what way?
5) What do you think you need to do to make things right?

The person or persons affected:
1)What did you think when you realized what had happened?
2) What impact has this incident had on you and others?
3) What has been the hardest thing for you?
4) What do you think needs to happen to make things right?

Another thing is to teach her and others how to apologize:

The Offender says: "________(Name of the person offended), may I apologize?"

The One Offended: "Yes."

The Offender says: "________(Name of person offended), may I apologize for ______________(Say what apologizing for)?

Do you accept my apology?"

The one offended says: "Yes."

The Offender says: "Do you need anything?"

The one offended says: "I need__________(say what it is you need)."

The Offender says: "I will do it."

The agreesment is sealed with a handshake or hug.

Good luck
D.

www.iirp.edu

Since your husband is the only one she acts this way with, I suggest that they need help with that relationship. Have you asked her why she does this? If she can tell you work on changing that perception. If she says she doesn't know why, then spend some time talking about their relationship, allowing her to say anything even if it's negative. Once she's able to work thru her feelings for her step-dad she'll be able to be polite.

I suggest that she may be focusing on the one person all of her feelings about the fact that her Dad doesn't live with you. She's needing to keep a distance from him and does this by being impolite. I suggest she needs help feeling loved and close to him.

I wonder why you say husband, rather than step-father. If you don't refer to him as step-father, I suggest that she has buried feelings about him being a step-father. Yes, she may not want to call him Dad but he's still her step-father and that relationship needs to be recognized.

My granddaughter has a father and a step father. She calls both of them Dad at times because she's really close to her step-father. When their relationship first started she called her birth father Daddy and her step-father Papa. Over time the two have blended together. But then she doesn't see her birth father at all. Their relationship is thru Facebook. She is much happier now, knowing that both of them love her. Calling the step-father Dad or Papa is a sign of love on both sides.

I adopted my daughter. She eventually, in a couple of months, started calling my significant other Dad. It is important to a daughter and father including a step father to call him by a pet name of some sort. It helps to solidify the relationship.

I suggest that having a consequence for rude behavior is appropriate but since that isn't working I'd mix it up some. I would continue to give a consequence but at the same time look into her relationship with her step-dad.

I like YouaremyIlove's suggestion to completely ignore her when she's rude. Tell her that until she's able to be polite you don't want to talk with her.

I suggest that you stop talking about her being rude. Talk with her about how she feels. Encourage a conversation about their relationship. Ignore her and the rude behavior. I learned in a parenting class that ignoring negative behavior is a good way to extinguish or get rid of the behavior.

I suggest that she is withdrawing when you talk and talk and talk about her behavior because it's "old hat." She knows what you're going to say and doesn't want to hear it one more time and one more time, etc. You've lost the impact that a couple of brief conversations would have.

I also suggest she's withdrawing because she feels that she's not being heard. Find out what she would say if she wasn't allowed to be rude. Talk with her about her feelings while sticking with the requirement that she be polite.

As I type I remember that I was rude with my father at around that age because I did not respect him. Is your husband doing anything that would cause the average person to feel it as disrespectful? For my father it was the constant fighting that my parents did. I blamed him, tho as an adult I see it was both of their responsibilities to work on a healthy relationship.

Hi A.,

First, the good news: your daughter isn't an unusual child. I spent one summer caring for two eight year old girls and it was all I could do to keep my mouth shut when they were rude. One child I'd known since she was a toddler, one was 'new' to me. I just kept reminding them that I would listen when they could use a polite tone of voice and remember that (usually) they were asking me to do something as a favor to *them*, and thus, they might use a tone of voice that conveyed that. Then, I stuck with my own rules.

The child I'd had a relationship with-- our families are friends. She's one of my son's favorite sitters. She's graduating HS with top honors and has a full-ride academic scholarship to a very nice university. She's a delight to be with and very lovely with both adults and children.

At this age, just like in toddlerhood, kids go through a stage of trying to express their separateness and autonomy. And like toddlers and teens, they are rather clumsy and ignorant of choosing their battles and why. They'll also direct it mostly at us, their familiar caregivers, because we are 'safe'. They practice their rudeness knowing that we will not reject them wholesale or hurt them physically for it.

I think you've gotten some good advice here. One other suggestion I would make is picking up the book: "How to talk so kids will listen...and how to listen so kids will talk" by Faber and Mazlish. This book liberated me as a caregiver and a parent, and I really think it will help you to. The focus is on nonjudgmental communication. You'll find techniques, too, for helping your daughter step in and do some problem solving on her own around chores/responsibilities and even her attitude/demeanor. When she can 'own' some of the solutions and try out her ideas for 'fixing' problems, she's going to feel better about herself. If you can get her father and your husband on board with some of the ideas in this book--even better! I really hope this helps.

Is it possible that someone is talking badly about your husband to her? Maybe her bio dad, or his parents? My half sister's bio mom fed her a bunch of lies about my mom when she was a kid. She even told her that my mom was reason she and my Dad got divorced. The truth was that my mom and dad didn't even meet until after his divorce was finalized. Consequently, my half sister had very negative feelings about my mom until she was a teen and realized the truth.

Sit your daughter down and tell her you've been noticing this negative attitude towards him, and that treating him that way is unacceptable. Maybe she'll open up about why she's feeling the way she is.

Best of luck!

It doesn't SOUND like your husband has done anything inappropriate to her, but of course that's always one of the first things anyone would think after reading this.

Assuming, of course, that that isn't the case at all, another theory is that very often, kids choose to act out most with the ones they trust the most. My son is 2 and he will be a perfect angel with my mom, with my boyfriend, with almost anyone else he's with. Then the second he comes home to me he has an ATTITUDE, screaming and rebelling against ANY request, even if it's something he wants! That's just how kids develop comfort in a particular area.

I think your daughter feels completely secure in yours and his love for her, especially his, so she feels like she has a safe place to test boundaries without fearing the consequences, like she would with a stranger, or just someone outside of your immediate family.

This phase can continue for quite a while, until she gets a little older and learns that she can rebel in other ways (believe me, this is the easy phase! Next it'll be insisting she get a cell phone like every other girl in her class, putting racy pictures up on her Facebook, and throwing a fit because you wont let her have a boyfriend at age 11!)

My suggestion is to try the reverse psychology technique. Any time she needs to be told 'no', YOU tell her. Have her dad just walk away. Don't let him do any disciplining, don't let him have any say so. She is enjoying this game she's being allowed to play, so take away the other players. Force her to deal with only you, and since she hasn't been behaving badly to you, take advantage of that.

If she seems confused, great! She's no longer in control. If she misbehaves purposely in front of him, ask him to come tell you. You discipline her, and she'll freak out, wondering why her game is falling apart. Take the control away from her and you've won. I know it's annoying to have to play games like this but it will be worth it in the end.

She has to learn that YOU BOTH are her parents, therefore, until she turns 18, SHE HAS TO LISTEN TO YOU. BOTH. Right now it seems like although you've been trying to come down hard on her, you've obviously talked about how frustrated with the current situation IN FRONT OF HER, therefore giving her the satisfaction that she's 'winning'.

Also, you said "She also appears to become more and more withdrawn the more I bring up this topic". Which I'm taking to mean that you're just 'bringing this topic up." You're not sitting her down, talking to her in an adult way, explaining that it is not ok anymore. "You're a very big, smart girl. You're 8 years old! I should NOT have to have this issue with you, and from now on, it's going to stop. I will not ask you again to speak up, because you know it's what you're supposed to do. I expect you to do as you're told. End of story. Thank you." and leave it at that. Instead you may be pleading with her, or threatening. Either way, she's still in control!

The next time you want her to speak up, if she doesn't, COMPLETELY SHUT HER OUT OF THE CONVERSATION. Don't play the game! Immediately turn away from her and talk about something else. Don't mention your daughter or her lack of contribution- don't give her any attention for it. She'll be completely taken aback- "How did I just lose the spotlight?!" The behavior will stop. Immediately.

Also, by asking her grandparents to become involved you're subliminally telling her that you cannot control her alone, and that she's the boss. If you take matters into your own hands, and show her you're eliminating not only the other players but also her rules, she's got nothing. She will be so confused (and secretly glad to not have to be in charge) that she will give up, and swing right where she needs to be.

Of course, I cannot guarantee that but it worked for me and I feel like it's a pretty safe bet. Good luck!