What to Do Regarding Marriage!!!

Definitely NOT petty and not cold feet. It sounds as though you are thinking very sensibly and realizing just what you need out of a partner. Once you walk down the aisle it is NOT going to get any better...probably worse. Just because you have a dress and save the dates you do not have to get married to him right away, or at all. A wedding is one day out of a loooooooong life together. You need a partner, not a dependent.

It's not very smart to marry, when you have a weak relationship. You can not and should NOT marry him expecting him to change. Either accept that he does not fulfill things you want and need, or don't get married.

I just gotta say a man that will load a dishwasher and wash and fold laundry sounds like a keeper! Now the job thing us what would worry me personally, I mean why was he out of work so long. For me a man without a decent job would be shakey. What is he doing since the job he has isn't great? My guy is not the greatest around the house but would sell ice to the Eskimos if that's what had to be done to provide for us :). This for me would be a big red flag.

Sorry, honey. If you're a basketcase now, what are you gonna be when you get married? He's shown you point blank that you are pretty much on your own running a household. When you have kids, it will be more of the same. Even counseling isn't working.

I wonder if he's only working in order to placate you. The issue of a job that holds no future and only pays a few bills is terribly important.

If it were me, I would postpone the wedding. He probably doesn't believe you won't do it. Calling you negative is the way he has kept you "on the plan" and once you get married, he can just coast.

I feel really sorry for you. I don't think there's any way out of this hell you're experiencing. The man is not driven and you will either live with it or leave it. I do hope that you strongly consider leaving it. When counseling doesn't help, it just means that there will be a divorce down the road...

Call it off.

You're not even married yet and you're in counseling and having major issues.

Those are obstacles you overcome after YEARS of marriage. You two may be both wonderful individually, but you are not bringing out the best in each other.

Do you want a LIFETIME of someone not bringing out your best?

Call it off now. It'll hurt, but you know it's for the best.

Here is what will NOT happen: He will not become a motivated high-earning, household-helping handyman AFTER you're married.

The fact that you set this in motion is helping you focus.

If you need these things from him, do not marry him. Your disappointment will only increase once you feel trapped and married.

I mean heck, I never even thought I wanted a man to be helpful around the house or good at fixing things....and when my ex turned out to be not so handy OH MY GOSH, OVER TIME? NIGHTMARE! I had to do all the house repairs etc plus all my own responsibilities.....and NONE of our issues got better with time, only worse. So if you already have doubts-don't do anything permanent.

he sounds like a great guy for somebody.
doesn't sound like he's the right guy for you.
you want a guy who is hardwired for things this guy is not.
marrying him will not magically change his hardwiring.
getting married so that you can use the dress is not logical.
rethink this. do it now. do it before it's too late. for his sake as well as yours.
khairete
S.

Having bought a wedding dress and mailed save the date cards out is a terrible reason to go through with a wedding--and marriage--you are having doubts about.

You are planning to promise to spend the rest of your forever with this guy. That isn't a desision to be taken lightly. It sounds to me like you aren't yet ready to make that pledge, so take some more time. Marriage will not fix your problems, it will only make them permament.

And for the record, "good guys" step up and act like adults around the house.

well.... do you want to support him for the rest of your life? He won't change. You will be marrying a man who feels that it is not his responsibility to help out around the house. If you marry him, you can't then expect him to change.

Now - there are some very happy relationships that have division of labor as far as who does what and it works for them.

However, you have to know that if you have a child or children with this man, he's not going to step up. You will be doing it all.

I really don't agree with the premise that you love him so you should marry him. "Love" has very little to do with having a successful marriage. It's an emotion.

You have to decide if what he brings to the table emotionally and mentally is worth the tradeoff of what you will always to physically. If so, then marry him. But don't marry him and expect him to change.

I have to agree this sounds like its not heading anywhere great.

There are all kinds of successful marriages out there in which the man doesn't do the traditionally male jobs and vice versa (in my own marriage, we have some of these flip-flops, like I'm more likely to put together the Ikea shelf, and he does the grocery shopping!).

But what stands out to me in reading your post is that for YOU, having your husband fulfill certain roles is important. Just like you can't expect him to change (which is totally true), you can't expect your own core beliefs and values to change either.

At the end of the day, regardless of who does which chores, there has to be a balance. On any given day it won't be 50/50, but big-picture-wise, you both have to be contributing.

If you can already see that there isn't this balance, and if you personally believe that a husband needs to fulfill certain roles, then you need to seriously think about this.

I agree that love is not enough to make a marriage work. I remember once when I was going through a breakup that stemmed not from any drastic betrayal or event, but rather from a realization that I just couldn't see myself with him long term, I was crying to my mom once saying "he's so nice! how can i do this to him? he's such a good guy!" My mom said, "honey, being nice is the least you should expect from the cashier at the grocery store. it doesn't make a marriage." and she was totally right.

You have to make this decision with your head and your heart. Maybe it would help to actually make some lists; everyone has characteristics of an ideal spouse that are "nice to have" and some that are "must have;" I wish my husband were taller so I'd be more comfortable wearing cute heels, but oh well. If he were unwilling to contribute to our life and household, different story.

Don't settle.

Good luck.

Better to call it off now than deal with a divorce later with maybe a few kids added into the mix.
He might be a good guy, but he's not what you need/want.
Free him and yourself and keep looking.

All I can offer is this observation: women marry a man thinking he'll change. He won't.
Men marry women hoping she'll never change.
She will.

If you marry this man, do it knowing that in 5, 10, 20 years, he's going to be just like he is today. If you have any qualms about that with hopes of "changing" him? Forget it. If you can live with how he is RIGHT now? Go for it.

Be choosy. This is your chance.

AS IS.
Marriage is an as is proposition. He is who he is and is coming to you as is.

If your desire and image of a "man" is one who can fix things around the house, then this guy is not the guy for you. He has no desire in that direction. Unless you change your expectation of him and his skill set you can only expect to be disappointed when things break and he can't fix them.

As far as your position of "participate in house duties like a man should", that is truly subjective. My husband can't fix squat or diddly but he is excellent and hiring people to get the job done and paying them. The main thing is that things are fixed. I can fix some things and I do when needed.

If you think you feel stuck now, don't marry this man. End it now and find a man who is both wonderful to you and can fix things because that is what you truly want. The fix it guy is definitely worth the wait besides everything in you is screaming get out so just end it now. Divorce is so much harder than ending it before the divorce. Don't wait to see if hind sight is 20/20 because it always is.

One of the top three reasons I married my husband was his work ethic. You could see it even when we were in school...his project had to be the best, he would stay up all night if that is what it took. We had been married less than a year and still in college full time, and we thought we might be pregnant...and his first thought was to start looking for a night job...stocking shelves or gas station so he could still take day classes. (We weren't pregnant, but he wasn't going to let us go without...education or money for the baby).

He would work three or four part time jobs, flip burgers at a fast food joint, work at a big box hardware store, etc etc (with a Master's degree) if that was the only work he could find...he is not too proud to take any job.

I am quite honestly more handy around the house...I rewire things, fix broken things...but he will tackle a remodel or painting the whole house to save money (one weekend at a time).

Personally, I could not have married a man who I didn't feel secure that would help provide for our family. It is a team effort...and I know he will get up everyday and go to work somewhere so we can pay our bills.

If you are fine making the money and keeping the house then marry him. People do not change after marriage you are going to get him exactly the way he is now.

Put the wedding off for a year. It will give you time to think and it will give him a heads up, that you are totally serious. It's not so close to the date now, that it will be totally embarrassing. You need to work on somethings.

You have your entire life to be married. You can take another year to make that decision.

Do not get married. You will be miserable and you will make him miserable too. You're only engaged but you're already trying to make him into an entirely different person.

Call it off. The love you do have for him isn't enough. Love alone isn't a good enough reason to marry, nor can it fix the unfixable. He is not the kind of man you really want, and I suspect you're not the right woman for him either. No amount of money spent on wedding plans can justify getting married to the wrong person.

I think you have to look at your expectations. You seem to have definite ideas of what a man should earn and what he should be doing around the house. You want him to be Mr. Fix-it (a stereotypical role for men) but also Mr. Domesticity. If he never learned to fix things, did you? If he never learned to cook, did you? Find out if he doesn't know how, doesn't like those tasks, or isn't willing to learn. Find out if your expectations are so high that he sits back because he can't measure up to your standards. It's okay to divide the tasks by who likes them (or who hates them the least, which might be more accurate) but then you have to be satisfied with the way the other person does them.

If he's not motivated at all in the job area, that's a problem. If he's stuck in a dead-end job because there are no job opportunities, that's not his fault.

Do you have higher economic standards than he does? Do you want him to support you and do the home repairs and cook too? As others have said, what would your reaction be if he expected all that of you? Or does he, and that's why you are so upset? If he is pushing you to do more, take on more responsibilities while he is lazy? Or is he sitting back because you are so driven and have set ideas about how you want things done?

Does he even know that you want him to take the initiative? It's not clear to me if you feel he doesn't do enough, or if you feel that he doesn't do the things you expect him to know how to do, to want to do, and to know that yo don't want to do them.

You can hire repair people or either (or both) of you can take a course at the local Home Depot or Lowe's to learn how to do many repairs, paint, do tile. You can cook together as a bonding activity, or take a class together. But that's only if you both are interested in these jobs and not because you feel the other one should naturally want to do them.

I think these are the things you should work on in counseling, so that you identify the needs you both have and express them to each other.

But I agree with others that, if you think you can change someone's fundamental make-up after you are married, you are going to be in trouble. I also think you need to clarify with the counselor how someone can be a "good guy" who takes care of you "emotionally and mentally" and still fall so short of what you want. He's either not taking care of you emotionally, because you clearly are very upset, or nothing he does will ever be enough. That's what the counseling should be focusing on.

And if you have to, postpone the wedding. Do not go through with something until you are both more in sync and more expressive of your needs and expectations.

Hold off on the marriage and focus on the issues in your relationship. Otherwise, you'll be in turmoil and conflict from the start.

We have been married for over 30 years. I have learned you cannot change anyone. THEY have to want to change and THEY have to put the effort into it. No matter how much you love each other, you will always be your own people.

Once you are married, it is forever. FOREVER!

And so day in day out, year after year.. if it is a weak relationship before even being married, it will just be worse and more obvious as time goes on.

Have you two been to any sort of couples counseling together? Some churches offer it to couples planning on marrying..

Communication is the secret to good marriages. If the two of you can learn the skills of talking with each other. Being able to be honest without hurting each other,, You can get through most anything in marriage.

Can you speak with him about what you have posted? Can he hear these truths and your feelings? If he is able to understand, but still is not going to change, can you live with that?

I have told my husband the things that he does or does not do that drive me insane.. and same him telling me things.. We hear it we acknowledge it.. most times we try to work on it, other times, there is no hope of changing, but we can at least acknowledge.. "I know this drives you crazy but.. I just cannot seem to change this about myself."..

I too dated guys that provided great emotional support but I knew they were not hard workers. Their lack of ambition bothered me although they too were good, decent guys.
Although I would not call my husband a handyman, my husband is the hardest worker and smartest man I know. I think I was partly attracted to him because of his ambition and work ethic. I knew he would make a fabulous husband and father. He is also a great provider. To this day I am so proud to be married to my husband. He quit his job to start his own company over 5 years ago due to his hard work, things are going well and we can afford to hire contractors.
Honestly, I know I could not marry a man like your fiancé. It just would not work for me. Additionally, it does not make sense to me that you would marry a man where you guys already need counseling together.
I am sorry you are going through this but it is better to call the wedding off now than to be stuck in an unhappy marriage or in divorce court a year from now. Best of luck to you. What a horrible position to be in and I just feel for you and your fiancé.

Here is my take.

What does he have to offer you? Does he have a home or an apartment that is furnished? Does he have a plan on where he wants to be in 5 years? Does he speak about things he wants to do in the future? Does he mention how many children if any he wants? Does he respect you and do things for you now without having to be reminded? If you answer NO to any of these questions, he is not the one for you.

What do you bring to the table? Do you have any of the above items available? If you say yes, then move on.

Marriage is not hearts, flowers and rainbows, it IS a lot of work everyday by both people to make it work. The load is 50/50, 10/90, 110/0 and anywhere in between.

Think of marriage as a business and partnership. If you are not either, than this is not for you.

Just because you know someone for 4 years does not make them a potential mate for life. IF he has little tics that set you off now, think of what they will be like in 5, 10, 15 years -- huge and annoying.

Take your time and don't settle for someone just to have someone. I have told this to my daughter who would love to have a mate but the pool has become very small and the guys seem to have "issues".

the other S.

PS Good things do come to those who wait.

There were quite a few guys that I personally loved...and were wonderful to ME emotionally and to ME mentally. But I knew deep down they were not going to be a good father, financial supporter or be a good leader in a family. Soooo, I decided to call it off. It hurt me..it hurt them. But, I was willing to deal with a short lived hurt..rather than a lifelong marriage filled with regret for myself and our future children.

Please reconsider marrying this man. You are already feeling "single" at times. Ugh....this should be the time he is busting his butt to attract you to wanting to marry him. I assume you are already living together? Sweetie...stop doing this backwards. Put a man in a position where he shows you he is marriage material and earns the privilege to marry you.

You are going to feel very alone and taken for granted once you tie the knot at the altar. Even though you are living together,once you are married you are going to expect more of him,and he won't magically change and deliver. You will get what you have right now.

You are not being petty at all. He is not acting like a true partner now, and he won't once you are married. Look at him now...this is the man you are going to get for a lifetime. Ask yourself some questions. Is this the man I want my future daughters to see as a role model of their own future husband?? Is this the man I want my future sons to see as a role model of how to be a daddy and supportive husband?

I sure hop you want your future daughters to pick better than this man. I sure also hope you want your future sons to be better than this man. Then why don't YOU deserve better?? Why do you feel so "stuck" when you are not even married yet?? Please...please...please take a breather and call off this marriage. It is doomed from the beginning.

You both need to live separately and not be stuck in this rut. Tell him to get a better job so he can better support the family you will create and show forth the effort that he will become the man you really can't live without...then you will reconsider marrying him.

Show him you expect a life PARTNER and you expect him to work hard to be the man you want!! Because right now, all the prayers in the world he offers will not get the dinner made, the groceries purchased, the bills paid, the broken cabinet fixed etc. And you will be left there to do it all...with a crying newborn.

Once you marry him..you can't complain. You chose all of it with full knowledge of what you were signing up for. Please...call off or "postpone" the wedding. You will thank yourself down the road.(and maybe thank all of us that are warning you.)

I know one thing for sure...if you marry him. We all will see you again here on the site asking how to make your HUSBAND help out more because now you are pregnant and exhausted and having to cook, clean and work to pay the bills. Please...don't fulfill this prophecy.

It is so painful and embarrassing to call off a wedding. But..in the end you will be happy and proud of yourself for not tying yourself to this man and the future problems that would come. It is more expensive and painful to pay for a divorce..especially after kids come into the picture.

The motivation issue is a big one. If he isn't highly motivated and is content with a low level laborer job-- and that is not acceptable to you, then you need to recognize that he is not going to change this aspect of his personality.

It seems to me the big issue is the lack of motivation, and the handy-man stuff is just sort of a tacked on slam to add to the negative column...
But the handyman thing I take a different view on. I think that two adults in a relationship need to work from your strengths. If doing handyman stuff isn't his strength, then don't feel like you are getting "less of a man" because he doesn't want to or like doing that stuff. Many women today DO like doing it and are good at it when their spouses aren't. The idea of a marriage is that you work together and pool your strengths to counter your weaknesses. Not that every man has to be able to do x, y, z and every woman has to be excellent at t,u, v.

How would you feel if your husband let it slip that he wasn't sure he could be married to a woman who wasn't a good seamstress and didn't make clothes for him to wear, and the drapes for the bedroom, and the bedspreads. Would you be on board with that type of thinking? He doesn't want to buy pre-made clothing, he wants his wife to make it. Wives do that.
Yeah... doesn't feel so good when you look at it that way, does it? Same thing. If sewing is something you are good at, then you might not mind making a table runner or a pillow cover or whatever. But I'm betting that you would be ticked if your spouse expected you to be able to sew EVERYTHING that needed sewn.

There are plenty of areas of around the house stuff that each of you may excel or be weaker. Repairing plumbing or hanging ceiling fans are just one aspect. There is keeping up a lawn (mowing, edging, mulching, fertilizing, treating for bugs, and choosing and planting landscape plants, not to mention irrigation), taking care of cars (oil changes, tire rotation, regular other maintenance), taking care of bills (balancing checkbook, online bill paying, deposits, due dates, rates on loans, etc), cooking (menu planning, grocery shopping, cleaning up after, budgeting), and so on. Tons and Tons of things that you might be better suited to do. Some of it he might be better suited to do. You will not BOTH be suited to everything. Just won't happen.

My own husband isn't as gifted in the home repair department (very minor things, fine. But anything involving water or electricity rates a call from a licensed professional). But he does the lawn. And he put enough effort into his education/career that we can afford to pay for the occasional licensed professional for the things that require it. But, I take care of the pool, and the stuck disposal, and changing the a/c filters. We can both change light bulbs, but he does the ones that require a ladder. :)

The household stuff is only an issue if you don't both take on what you are good at. Unless you are suggesting that he has ZERO ability to do ANYTHING around the house. And you didn't say that, you said he helps with the laundry and the dishes. So, let that become his domain, and you take on something else. What neither of you are talented at, you hire out, or get a copy of " ____ for Dummies". Those are not marriage breakers.

General laziness and lack of motivation... that you cannot ignore.

Cut your losses and run!

Respect yourself. Listen to your intuition. You know what you need and want. You only feel stuck when you stop seeing your choices and making choices.

Your negative, inner voice is getting in your way. You are stuck in the "Good Girl Syndrome." This says: "You must be nice.", "You can't do anything that would hurt someone else's feelings.", "You must never change your mind.", "Love is enough.", "You need to put other people first.", "You are asking too much of him.", "But, he is a nice guy." Really?

I would recommend that you tap into your curiosity and deeply question all of these thoughts. Most of them are only true if you want a live of giving your power away and settling for living everyone else's lives and never living the life you have dreamed.

I think the writing is on the wall. If you're already frustrated by his lack of drive and motivation, things will only get worse....much worse after you're married. It will start to overshadow any positive feelings you may have about him and you will end up hating him.

You have an ideal of what your perfect man is and isn't and it sounds like for you, it's a "handy" man, a man who can readily fix household things and is a cleaner. If that is the case, you will never be happy unless you re-examine what is truly important to you. He's there for you emotionally and mentally but that is not enough for you.

I didn't marry a "fixer," either. He didn't have a father who taught him how to do things around the house. He can't change oil, he can't lay drywall, he can't fix the plumbing. But he's my best friend and my soul mate. We laugh together, watch basketball together, yell at the TV when politics is on. And he's the best damn daddy in the world. So although I'd love, love, love a handy man ... for me, that would only be a cherry on top of my full, gooey sundae. I can live without the cherry because my needs are met in ways that are more important to ME.

If you're not happy with the way things are now, you're not going to be happy with the way things are after you're married. If he's not handy, he's not going to fix things, and you really don't want him to. Every time my ex tried to fix something (because he thought he should be able to fix things just because he had dangly bits), he made it worse, and I ended up either having to come behind him and fix it myself or pay someone to fix the original problem PLUS the extra damage he did.
If he doesn't do housework (other than loading and unloading dishwasher and laundry), then he isn't going to scrub toilets after you're married.
You basically have to decide if you want the rest of your life to be exactly as it is now.

The level of pettiness really depends on what you want and what you are willing to give to get it.

If you are already frustrated and annoyed, know that getting married will NOT make it better.

Is it possible that your relationship has run its course? I mean, why are you marrying him? Do you fantasize about spending the rest of your life with him? Is there a greater purpose that is served by your being together? Or do you just love him and think that "it's time"? Do you think that you won't find another guy who is nice to you? In addition to your couples counseling, you should do your own individual counseling, just to get a handle on your own thoughts and feelings.

That you are in counseling before you get married is a bad sign to me.

Some guys are not handymen. Some are. Some have enough common sense that they can fix what needs to be fixed if they just try. It doesn't sound like your guy is a tryer.

I was not a handy man. But I do have a lot of common sense and can fix just about anything. If I don't know how to fix something, I know how to read and can follow instructions.

Every woman worth marrying deserves a man that is a tryer. He is willing to provide for his family. If you are working supporting the two of you and he is/was out of work for 12 months of the 48 months you have been together, then he isn't concerned about making a living. You don't want to get stuck with someone that is content to let you earn the living for the family. (I know . . . its the male chauvinist in me.) Your children will learn what the status quo is from your husband and you and how you treat each other.

Find someone that loves you enough that he is willing to move heaven an earth to earn your love and devotion. Sounds like this guy isn't willing to move away from the TV for your love and devotion. If you are worth it, find someone that is worthy of you. ;~))

Good luck to you and yours.

What you have is an "opportunist". I married a fellow, who knew I had a house, good job and career, while he chose go back to school, on my dime, graduate, and not find a "career" to his liking. We set a wedding date, and I stuck to it. He continued to live off of me, and did "the gardening". He said he wouldn't take out the garbage or sweep or wash the floor, unless I put his name on the title of the house. I finally found some letters to his family with details of his plan--to get half of what I have through staying with me, just long enough and then me divorcing him (he became abusive). The divorce took 2-1/2 years, and my entire inheritance, from my mother. I still ended up giving him $10000. I think you have an opportunist, too.

Do NOT marry this man. You need to be able to respect the man you're going to marry. This isn't about expecting him to be the breadwinner, but should you ever lose your job then his job should be able to support the family (and vice verse). That said, at least he's working. Not everyone is driven to work careers that have a future. Not everyone is motivated to be more than they currently are. I personally don't understand that attitude and so a man such as the one you're with wouldn't be a good fit for me.

You're not being petty. You're being practical. All of your concerns are valid. The way he is now is not likely to change. You still have time to cancel or postpone your wedding plans. If you want to try to work things out, continue counseling and postpone the wedding another year to see if things change but if this is personality based then it may not be fair to expect this sort of change from him.

Which means you'll have to decide if you're willing to compromise. Is love enough? And do you love him, or love the idea of being married? Do you love him, or are you in love with him? Is he a hard worker at work? Is he a good father to his children? If he's not your childrens' father, is he a good father to them? Look at the big picture.

It sounds like you want him to be more interested in the corporate world. To be more aggressive in a career. He may just be happy the way his is.

Perhaps you can start to think about him in a different way. YOU get to be the corporate ladder climber and he gets to be the easy going good guy that you fell in love with.

I would consider going through premarital counseling, I believe there are books out there that you can even do it on your own or contact a local church. We did not go through premartial counseling and I wish we had. No marriage or relationship is going to be perfect and you have to support and learn from one another. After 8 years we are still working on things but we love each other.

Have you told him that you need/want him to step up more? If not, that's where you need to start. Something along the lines of let's divvy up the household responsibilities.

Also, he may not feel really comfortable doing much around the house if it was YOUR house prior to him moving in. He may be feeling more than a "house guest" than a permanent resident.

As for the non-future job, I personally believe that being well-loved and treated well are more important than a lot of money. If he's working and bringing in an income to the best of his ability and he loves you, treats you with respect. and tries to help around the house, sounds like he's doing a good job to me. But you are the only person who knows what you can and can't accept.

You've listed so many things the he does do that makes you unhappy. Unless the list of things he does to make you happy exceeds that list, marrying him might not be a great idea. Don't expect him to be perfect, but your goals, values and priorities should be in sync with one another. Also keep in mind that you are not perfect either. No one is. Sometimes, we girls tend to think we are the cream of the crop. Also, not every nice and sweet guy is marriage material. Been there done that.