Warning Before Punishment

I try to do Love and Logic too, but the book 1, 2, 3 Magic was, well, magical for me and my 5 year old. It gives a small warning (kids are really too young to never step out of line for a second - sometimes they just don't realize), totally without emotion, like Love and Logic (the anger or frustration ruins it), and then the consequence comes on 3. For something really bad, like hitting, you can jump right to a 3, and give the consequence (That is so sad!)

You would have to read the book (a fast read), but it's different than counting to 3 like, "You have to do this by 3." It's kind of letting them know that there has been an infraction. You calmly say, "That's a one." And if they do it again, "That's a 2." I swear it was a whole year before my son even DARED to go past 2. I don't know why. It just worked. It's worth a try for you! I hope this makes sense. I'm tired, but it did help me, so I thought I would share. Good luck!

I usually give one warning but there are exceptions:
The offense is serious, like he ran in the street or hit someone.
I might remove him from an activity with no warning if it becomes clear that he's having a bad day and just isn't going to play nice or cooperate no matter what.
He is clearly just trying to push his limits with me and I need to nip it in the bud.
It's a chronic problem behavior and I am cracking down on it.
I really don't like to give more than one warning before escalating to discipline . Multiple warnings only teach kids that they don't have to stop the behavior right away.

I try to explain the behavior I expect of my kids before we get to the destination. Once we are to the destination, if they act up I don't warn. I leave. I have to many kids to do that whole love and logic thing. If I say to get your coat on you had better get your coat on. I am not going to wait for you to discover that your cold and then tell you well that's why I asked you to get a coat. I am pretty sure your daughter knew she was misbehaving. Why warn her. That's wasted time. You should have followed your husbands lead. I can almost guarantee that the next time she will misbehave and challenge her dad because you did.

Sometimes he gets a warning and sometimes he doesn't-- depends on what he did, how worn o ut my patience is, etc. Somethings, like playing with the windows or not stopping at the curb there are NEVER warnings for. I think sometimes we worry too much about perfect consistency-- life is not consistent and we all need to learn to deal

Sometimes when the nice State Trooper pulls me over he gives me a warning and sometimes he gives me a ticket.

Not a good idea to undermine your husband in front of your son. Think about the word with you break it down. Mining is to dig and when you are undermine him, you dig underneath him and he isn't on stable ground. Not good. You both need to be on firm footing when you are parenting your kids.

I think there are some things that need warnings, like use of words, tone of voice, acting out.

I think there are some things that don't need warnings, like hitting, kicking, and throwing toys.

I think communicating expectations BEFORE you leave for the park (or store or restaurant) and again BEFORE you get out of the car helps the most. Then one warning and out you go.

I agree about the warning in this instance, but I also think that if you had gone along with your husband your son would have recoverred from the lack of warning and dad would have been respected more.

It's ok, though, M., so don't get too worried about it. We all do things like this from time to time and we just learn, compromise and go on.

In our house new rules get three freebies. After that, it's instant consequence. OTW my son learns that x is okay 1 time, every time, because he gets a warning the first time.

I give warnings beyond the three freebies when things are HEADING towards, but haven't reached the no fly zone YET.

Have you not, as a universal rule, told your son that if he acts out that you will leave? That's a basic sort of warning that would hold for all occasions and therefore he wouldn't need a warning before leaving, tho in most situations it would be best. It gives him the chance to change his behavior.

And, leaving is a natural consequence. It sounds like you missed the opportunity to warn him. Perhaps his acting out had reached the point that he was out of control and it would be unfair to expect him to calm down.

Did he calm down after you decided to stay? If so, then it worked out OK. You did do love and logic.

However, a united front is important for parents. I understand your husband's anger. You countermanded him and thus detracted from his authority. I suggest this is more of a problem between the two of you then a negative influence on your son, unless this happens often.

This is not a serious error. One time of going over Daddy's head in front of the child is not going to cause him to question your togetherness. I would look at this as a lesson to be learned. Perhaps the two of you need to work on communication so that you make decisions together. The two of you could've talked about it and together made the decision to stay after all.

Or perhaps you can decide to trust that your husband makes good decisions even when you don't agree with them and follow his lead.

You should have shown your child a united front and gone with dad's decision to leave. Your owe your husband and apology and need to let your child KNOW that your were WRONG and DAD was RIGHT and the next time he acts up, he will be leaving the PARK, PARTY, RESTAURANT, etc.

Blessings....

I don't do the love and logic thing....well actually I do 99% of the time, but I do include firm discipline within the loving logical standard instead of sticking to the positive parenting mold.

I have ALWAYS used warnings, because they cut out SO many needs for follow through. I ALWAYS explain things with no consequence the first time they do stuff. THEN the second time is a warning, re-iterating what they were already taught and giving them one more chance to act right, and the third time is a firm, consistent consequence EVERY TIME.

Now at ages 5, 3, and 2, the two year old being born with most difficult disposition, the warning suffices most of the time. I take them everywhere with me, their dad always travels. My five year old hasn't been disciplined AT ALL in years, she is extremely well behaved with her own firm compass, my 3 year old rarely is disciplined and he's also excellent, and my 2 year old, is doing really well catching on with more consistency and firmness than the other two needed.

Warnings are pointless if there is not an effective firm follow through consistently and immediately when setting boundaries. At five, he GETS IT and HAS all self control mechanisms firmly in place, you should not be battling him very often. He honestly shouldnt' need many warnings, since he knows all rules. A warning in advance about behavior before arriving at events and then IMMEDIATE follow through if he acts otherwise is what I would do. And I would firm up at home first, so you dont' end up leaving events immediately all the time and stuff because he pushes things in public still thinking expectations are new and negotiable. This book is very loving and positive, yet firmer and more consistent than love and logic, and could give you a good boost and help the hubs feel a bit less stressed: Back to Basics Discipline by Janet Campbell Matson..

Also, I don't undermine my husband when he's home- but that's not often :) I let him "seem to be in charge" so the kids feel secure in his leadership as well as mine. We get on the same page after the fact in private if our discipline opinions go awry. Dont' sweat it though, all is not lost. If you guys get on the same team, no one will remember this particular day!

Some things are so life threatening, you punish without any wornings because you have told them "No" previously. Or you want them, not to think, but to act immediately, if not sooner.

I would give harsh punishment immediately and without prior warning if:
They chased a ball out in the street.
They picked up or were playing with an electric saw that was turned on
If they picked up a gun that someone was cleaning
If they had a butcher knife in their hands and was waiving it "playfully" at a little baby.

I could go on, but you get the idea.

I like to give warnings first, but there are some things that are too dangerous.

Good luck to you and yours.

It was one day - I try to remember that we will never catch every learning moment and that there will be lots more chances to learn whatever the lesson was. (I don't do love & logic, punishment or consequences so I can't comment on that).

Well, I think you're right about warnings, and were also WRONG to undermine your husband.

In general, absolutely, you should warn before punishing. Remember that the point of discipline is to end unwanted behaviors and replace them with wanted ones. Typically a warning will do that more quickly and happily than a punishment, right?

That being said... the fact that your husband got to the "okay we're leaving" point makes it seem like either a warning was already given or the behavior was going unchecked. Part of logical discipline is that your child can depend on you to make good choices when they cannot... situations like this (Where parents disagree in front of children or where ultimatums are not followed through on) confuse children and make them less trusting of your judgement.

Maybe now is a good time for you and your husband to talk about discipline, re-read some of L&L and get back on the same page for your son :)

HTH
T.

Well, it sounds like today was a learning experience, right? It's great that you're evaluating how you could have helped today run more smoothly. And I don't care how much experience you've had parenting, there is simply no way of anticipating every possible way in which your son might act up.

But for those behaviors that you CAN anticipate, or repeating behaviors, you have the option of giving your warning in advance of that behavior occuring. Let him know the consequence he will earn if he slips up. Then follow through. If you know your son is able to understand your rule/limit/expectation, and he has shown some ability to achieve/obey/cope with his own feelings, then it may be reasonable to give one advance warning.

Do keep in mind that he may be tired or hungry at certain times, though, or he's temporarily used up his good judgement or ability to cope. Even grownups can get crabby, right?

I'm with you about a warning for you son, before his consequence. However, when I disagree with my husband I tell him after the fact and have at time requested he apologize when he's been wrong. I think this has shown our daughter that parents make mistakes too and we are also learning how to be better parents. Only one time have I gone against my daughter, in front of her, was when he told her she was responsible for his being angry. I instinctively interrupted him and clarified that only he is responsible for his feelings and if he feels angry he needs to walk away. I corrected him by stating she is never responsible for HIS feelings. Well this was the only time and we have always tried and continue to try for a united front. Good luck with your team :)

I have Ughhed more times over non unity that I care to admit. You're right that it is very important. I'll just keep trying.

Now for your 5 yr. old...."If thens" work best for me. "If you don't stop hitting, we will have to go home". "If you can be quiet the whole whatever, we will be able to get ice cream" Bla, bla, bla according to their ability of course. Warnings are good. I used to always warn them before grocery shopping that they needed to be good. It helps. You know though, that when they are tired and/or hungry, it doesn't matter what you say or do, they simply need food or sleep. (little ones, that is)

They do need warnings, how would they know what they were doing wrong if they didn't get told and have the chance to change thier actions.

If we are somewhere we give the kids a couple of warnings. They are little kids and get distracted. They usually get the 2 choices. I let the 4yr. old sit in the big part of the cart or the seat. If he acts up he loses the choice and I put him in the seat part. If he continues to act up he goes to the car with papa.