Ungrateful BIL...

He's 34 and you are still sending him presents? I'd stop immediately. It sounds like he's the way he is because his mommy has been babying him. Why does she even know when you guys call him or not and do you think she asks him to call you all?! Deep down she knows he's a bum and just making up excuses for him. Probably to make herself feel better for raising such a lump! :)

Nope, just be done and dont worry about it anymore. As a mom and a wife, you have better things to worry about. Dont stress over this.

Your not being unreasonable. If he isn't even acknowledging them, stop. maybe he will wake up one day and remember your kindness and realize oh, they didn't send me a present! Wonder what is going on.....hummmm...and then maybe think about his previous actions/reactions etc.

In my opinion, you are thinking too much about this guy----he is not going to reciprocate, so let it go. If you are wanting to send him gifts-which sounds like you don't then do it only if you want to with no intention of you getting anything back.

Molly

You can stop sending gifts to your BIL... or you can choose to continue because you want to make your MIL happy... or you can choose to continue because it's what YOU decide to do. Any one of those options is perfectly reasonable.

Evidently your MIL feels helpless when it comes to both her sons. She's hoping that perhaps you can do something she can't. I don't know whether you can do it or not.

But if you decide to keep connecting with him, it will need to be without any expectation of return. There's no point thinking that next year might be different. Of course, it could be, but you don't want to pin hopes on it. (This has been my situation with many relatives over the years. They're just not interested!)

You could send BIL a greeting card next year, or a small gift card (nothing big, and certainly nothing to have to track!), simply because he's family and you've decided to stay connected with the relatives - on your end, anyhow.

Your children aren't hurt by your BIL's inattention; they're too young. You are, but... the time has come to lower your expectations. It's too bad - HE'S the one who's missing out on something wonderful. You can't do a doggone thing about his behavior; you just need to decide what your response to it will be.

Sounds like BIL wants space. Spare yourself and give it to him. He'll initiate more if he wants otherwise it's up to him mama to keep contact. Besides, giving gifts should be because you WANT to, not because you have to. Let your in-laws figure out their own relationships...the stress you are experiencing is unnecessary and not your problem. Just my opinion:)

Not sure why you are still sending this guy presents? He is an adult, not a child. If you don't have that kind of relationship, then you don't. Why send presents? You are not obligated, so just stop and don't worry about it. Next time MIL brings stuff up, just tell her kindly that she really should talk to her son about his brother and walk away or change the subject. Rinse, repeat. She'll get the hint.

Well, I've been in a similar situation and I do understand how you're feeling, but here's the reality of the situation, as I see it...First off, BIL I assume is single and has no children, so he most likely he wouldn't even know where to begin to send something to your children for birth, birthdays, Christmas or anytime, especially if he barely knows them. He doesn't know what is age appropriate or appropriate at all. That does not get him off the hook for not being appreciate, at least verbally to you about what you send, that's just plain rude, but he's a man. Yes, of course, there are men who are "exceptions to the rule", if you will, but honestly, most men don't buy presents for anyone but their wife. You even said it yourself, you're the one buying the presents for him and sending them AND tracking them. YOU are the one who's being talked to by MIL to get your husband to call him...do you see a pattern here...men don't get it. He's probably appreciate of what you send, but he doesn't, for whatever reason, let you know. I get that you're angry, I would be too honestly, but it's not going to change. So you can either accept it and send him gifts to "do the right thing" or stop. Either one would be understandable, you just have to be okay with what you choose. I had ot make the same decision with my BIL and his son. They never thank me for anything I ever do for them. I went throught a long time being angry and getting pissed over it and talking to my husband about it and one day I just told myself to get over it...and I did...mostly ;) Sometimes I still feel those feelings inside but I push them aside b/c I'm doing what I think is right and I still send them stuff, mostly for the son and for my husband, so I can put in an effort and be "supportive" of his family. Stop if you want, or don't, but be okay with it.

It obvious he isn't interested in your family and isn't going to change. Men like this tend to not realize what a joy family is until they have one themselves and have a baby. When they look at that baby the first time and fall in love with them it changes them.

I think if it really matters to you then stop, Tell the MIL nothing, just say okay the next time she asks you to talk to your husband. No reason to upset her over something so easy to just agree with and let it go.

It's not your responsibility to send gifts or get your husband to call. How does your mil even know that her son even cares if you send a gift or call? Don't let her guilt you. Stop doing anything for him. He's taught you how to treat him. Treat him the way he's shown he wants to be treated. IF he wanted your attention he'd respond. No response means no need to call or do anything.

You know you've done your best and I think you've gone beyond and above. Stop and don't feel guilty. When those guilty thoughts rise to the surface remind yourself that you are a good person and you tried. It only makes sense to stop trying when what you're doing isn't working.

Sounds like your husband has already caught on and his handling this by ignoring his brother and his mother. I suggest you do the same.

Some relatives are just like that, ultra casual about birthdays, holidays and special occasions to the point where you have to wonder if they are in a coma. Your BIL probably won't change unless he happens to meet a woman, settles down and then starts to appreciate how nice it is to be more involved in these little family traditions and that reciprocity and a showing of gratitude is always appreciated.

If you were to stop buying your BIL gifts, would your DH take over the chore? If not, I suspect that BIL and DH are very of the same frame of mind, which is very likely since they are brothers. I guess, if I were you, I would probably would only put in the same amount of effort that my DH is willing to make toward his own family. Why stress yourself out about an issue that no one else seems to care about except for you and your MIL.

Just my own thoughts on the matter.

You cannot expect this single partying self centered bachelor is going to change his insensitive ways & start sending your kids presents. Obviously the BIL and your DH are disconnected so I am surprised that you even expect this of him since he only sees your kids once a year & doesn't even interact with them then.

Not that I am siding with your BIL but typically men have to be groomed into the whole gift buying thing it doesn't come naturally to them like to woman. I personally think you should stop sending him gifts since he really doesn't have a relationship with you guys & it probably makes him feel very uncomfortable to get a gift so he doesn't acknowledge it.

Hopefully one day your BIL will meet a sweet woman that will get him to be more 'sensitive'. Merry Christmas

Make it easy on yourself. Don't send him anything anymore and drop it. If your husband wants to send him something then fine but you don't have to be a part of it. Making a big deal about it will get you nowhere, in fact it will make you the bad guy. He is a grown man and you cannot control his behavior no matter how hard you try. It comes down to the fact that you already know what he is going to do so don't expect any more, it just causes frustration.

Now if you want to say something to his face and see if it gets you anywhere then fine, but I am sure you will just add to your frustration and irritation. I am sure your kids get lots of presents from everyone for birthdays and holidays, they will never know that he is a loser. Just don't teach them anger and that presents are more important than kindness and they won't grow up to be like him.

Good luck, my brother does the same crud and it is hard to drop it but I do. I must admit, I have said something to him before and things improve a tiny bit but not enough to get myself worked up over. He also is a grown man and if he cannot get it together, I cannot do it for him.

Hi T.,
Just saw this, haven't been on this site for a while, but this struck a nerve and I had to respond...
Just to make you feel better: it took me several years of marriage to figure out the difference between what really mattered (my responsibilities as a mother and wife) and what didn't really matter (that is, what everyone else saw as my responsibilities as a mother and wife.)
First, he is your husband's brother, not yours. Would your husband make this kind of effort if the role was reversed and it was your sibling detached from the family?
Second, the BIL is an adult and has made a choice not to participate in the loving bonds of family life. A sad choice, but his choice nonetheless.
Third, shame on your MIL for guilting you, what is this, the middle east? It is NOT a DIL's job to make things right!
I know where you're coming from because you sound like a loving person who enjoys giving and receiving, and being thankful and respectful. Sadly, many people, for many reasons, remove themselves from this flow of goodwill for one reason or another. You'll just need to let it go and perhaps one day he will come back. In my own family, I am treated far better by my in-laws than by my own mother and sibs. My mother doesn't send birthday or Christmas cards to ANY of us (though we all send something to her) never mind presents or thank yous, she says that's just not her thing (?!) It's gotten to the point where my kids hardly even realize they have two grandmas because the other one is just a name and a phone number. It really got me down for a long time but I finally realized all I could do was keep focusing my attention on my own household (a big enough job!) and spend my precious time and attention on those who really appreciate me. I know it's hard, good luck to you :)

No, you are not being unreasonable. When I married my husband, I told him straight out that it was not my job to track and make sure that HIS family had gifts, and what not. It is his family and his job. Now I will help, yes...by all mean...but this is HIS family, not mine. And it works well. I even told my in-laws the same thing when they yelled at me one year that my MIL did not get anything for her birthday. I straight up asked them why they were yelling at ME instead of their son who WAS their family and the person responsible. I asked why it was my responsibility just because I married him. It brought to light the fact that just because men get married does not mean they get to drop their responsibilities. And it made my husband have to step up to the fact that this is his family and this is something he has to deal with...and not something that IO should have to add to my already full plate.

Now on the side of gifts...It is always better to give than to receive...but on that note, if he is not also giving, it is time to stop sending and to stop putting your hand out so far. Tell your MIL to start talking directly to your husband about talking to his own brother and that you feel you need to not be put in the middle of this any longer. That you feel the stress of this family situation is not what you should have on your shoulders and that this should be taken acre of between brothers. Also, explain to her that you feel that she may not be trying to make you feel guilty, but she is--and that this is not a healthy situation for you. Explain that you have put your hand out to him for years now and you have children and a family to take care of, as he has only himself and he shows no effort to do anything but take from your giving hand. Explain that you can not do this any longer, and that you need to reduce any and all stress in your life and this is one thing that is on that list for the new year.

Bottom line is this--you need to be honest with everyone. Being nice and biting your tongue is only going to add more stress to yourself. You can still be nice, but be honest with everyone, and explain that this has just gone far enough and that you can not be put in the middle of this any longer. That this is your husband's family and that from now on, they need to go to your husband with this situation, and not you. I would, also, explain to your BIL that if he wishes to still receive the love that you and your husband are trying to share that he needs to knock the wall down, let it in and start handing it back out by picking up the phone, visiting every once in a while, recognizing that his niece/nephew exist with a gift, card or even a Happy Birthday phone call...that he needs to put some effort in, because your effort is just about run out. But again...I think most of this needs to come out of your husbands mouth to his brother.

Why do we "do things" for other people?

For reciprocation?

To express holiday good will?

Because it's a nice gesture to remember relatives we don't see often?

Out of a sense of obligation?

People with NO kids are clueless. Seriously

I think you need to consider YOUR reasons for sending a gift to your BIL? Have you ever called him and said "hey--did you get our package in time for Christmas?"

My own in-laws (that live 10 minutes away) can sit in my house for 4 hours and not "interact" with my son. Let alone a single uncle from out of town!

Take your cue from your husband. MIL asking you to make sure DH is calling his brother is triangulating....if it bothers your MIL, she should talk to your husband herself about it, instead of putting you in the middle.

You are *done*. I get it. I would be too. Let your husband know that you are going to let him decide what he wants to get/do/send for his brother in the way of gifts.

Or you could always send him a box of "thank you" notes the next time a gift-time rolls around!:)

Dear T.,
And it has taken you 12 years to figure this out? Quit sending him andythign- he is so out exchange w/ you it is silly. Just smile and nod to your MIL, and then forget this jerk- it sounds as if your DH has, and has perfected that w/ your MIL.
If you expect your bil to change, well for heaven sake take a look at him.
You don't really want him around your children anyway, so be grateful he isn't and just forget him. And why are you guilty anyway? Smile and ignore.
best, k

yup, i'd be done too. my SIL got all in my a** one year b/c i didn't thank her for a gift for bday or graduation or something. i apologized & never forgot again - geez! anyway, i sent her $$ for her bday this year and heard...nothing. i was like wow, it's a 2 way street. i'm not being ugly or anything, but i'm sending her $$ again this next bday, but if i don't hear anything...i'm done, too. and you've put up w/a LOT more than me, girl!! it's not unreasonable AT ALL to stop giving to someone who's ungrateful. you'd do the same if it were a friend/coworker/etc. nope you are completely in the right and honestly girl, he probly won't even notice, know what i'm saying. don't let MIL guilt you into calling. that's your sweet, darling husband's job. pick up the phone to call BIL every once in awhile, but only when you FEEL it's a good idea. don't let these people tell you how to be! :) you know what's right...and you are so right! :)
good luck...hope it doesn't cause a rift or anything! :)

Of course you are not being unreasonable! I cannot believe how much you do for this jerk! It is NOT your responsibility to send xmas gifts to your husband's brother! You have gone way above and beyond and it is time to stop! I wonder why your MIL is talking to you about making an effort w/ your husband's brother instead of talking to your husband about it. This really has nothing to do w/ you! No more guilt from your MIL, and no more sending your BIL xmas gifts!! You are done, be happy!

you know, it's not really a question of whether or not your children receive gifts from your BIL....the whole point of Christmas is to "give" & not expect to receive.

That said, I do understand your angst over giving to someone without a simple "thank you". I also understand that maybe it's time for your husband to step up to the plate & be responsible for his family. My concern is that you have taken this angst to the level of actually feeling the need to "track" the gifts.....why not just relax & let go? !! Focus on the "happy" & not the "yucky"? !! Life is so challenging at times.......& sometimes we make it even more so! Peace!

When I was growing up, I never received anything or even really knew my Uncle on my dad's side. My dad didn't have a good relationship with him. My mom always tried to incorporate him but he didn't seem to care to much about being involved in our half of the family. Eventually, she just gave up and moved on with her life.

I would just stop sending him stuff. It's your husbands brother, so he can reach out and try to fix the relationship right now. I think it'll be less stressful for you. I don't think it's unreasonable. He has pretty much shown that he doesn't really care enough to even say thank you, so why send anything. It sounds to me like the relationship is already estranged between him and his brother so there is not a lot your gonna change about the situation. Just focus on your family that does seem to care.

The motivation to give (whether it is a gift or time or attention) should be based in care and love...Not guilt or to get something in return. From your post, it sounds like you feel you cannot be giving to your BIL and feel good about the giving?

So stop doing it. But do explain to your DH that you are changing a long-standing tradition. He may decide to step up and be a bigger participant in his brother's life or he may not. But know that your good heart will likely still feel guilty for not giving...As hurt as it now feels for giving without receiving any acknowledgment. So be prepared to simply trade one hurt for another.

As for your MIL...Stop her when she starts suggesting you reach out to your BIL and say, "Just a minute. I want to go get DH because I really think this is a message he needs to hear and act on. They are brothers after all."

Are you giving him a gift becasue you want to or becasue you want him to be grateful and thank you? Sounds like the problem is you want him to pay attention to your kids. This may or may not happen for you I would let it go and move on. He may not be a kid person, he may be mad about something who knows but unless you want to start drama let it go.

You are not being unreasonable; I would have been done a long time ago, if he didn't even bother when your children were born then he never will. I don't know why you with all the million things you have to do, still have the responsability to buy and send a gift. that's your husband's job, if he wants to buy a gift and send it to his brother, let him do it.
You're too busy with your little ones momma, give yourself a break!
Merry Christmas!

I say don't waste your time any longer. This guy BIL obviously has a one-track mind and your family isn't at the top of his list. But he's allowed his life - don't judge him for not being a good uncle/brother/BIL. Some guys are family guys and some aren't. BIL doesn't seem to be. And if he's always been on his own and Mr Partyanimal, then it shows where his priorities in life lie. It shows also that there's not a female in his life to say "what did you send the kids for xmas? When are their birthdays? DId you send them a thank-you email?" Honestly, if my husband were single, he'd probably not send presents to his nephew either. He'd probably call to say thanks for a gift, but not reciprocate. It's just the way some guys are I think. I have to get all the bday cards and say "here sign it." Guys just don't care about that kind of thing. You've tried. He isn't making an effort, so just stop trying. It's not worth your effort. If MIL gets on your back about it, tell her you tried for 12 years to make an effort and have exhausted yourself. You need to focus your time and energy on your kids.

I have to ask: What is your motivation for giving ANY gifts to anyone? The reason I bring this question to light is because too often, and I have been guilty of this myself in the past, is that we tend to give with the hopes/expectations of getting something in return. When we give with that kind of motivation we often feel resentful towards the person for not giving us what we expected and that is often a gift in return. I've learned hard lessons about this and it is has in turn caused me to really examine my gift giving and my motivation for giving in the first place. You see, a gift is something we should always give from the heart (think, "cheerful giver") and not with the expectation of getting something in return, even if it is in the form of a simple thank you. Sure, we want to be acknowledged for our good deeds but often enough we don't even get that.

My husband's sister lives near us yet year after year she has not come over, has not sent her nieces and nephew birthday cards, presents, phone calls. Nothing. My husband and I have invited them over for dinner but they have never reciprocated. Ever! After a while you get the feeling that these people either don't like you very much but are happy to take free dinner from you, or it's just their personality. Because of the bad blood in my husband's family, we have come to understand that his sister stays away because she simply does not like me and has "issues" with her brother. We always gave my my SIL and her husband a gift for their son (our nephew) for Christmas and birthday but rarely did they give a gift to my children. One Christmas they delivered gifts on our doorstep and had the nerve to call after they had driven away to "alert us that they dropped gifts off." That was when I drew the line and said, "not again." Since that time, I have stopped sending Christmas cards, our nephew is now a teenager and we don't really know him anyway because we have not spent enough time with him over the years to know what he likes/dislikes. I never gave with the hope of getting something in return but because it was family, there was the expectation on my part for them to act like family towards us. They can't even do that...so we have stopped sending them anything and my husband and I are fine with it.

If your husband doesn't have a good relationship with his own brother, you cannot be the one to mend the fence between them. I know, because I tried for years to be the "mender" for my husband and his sister. She still doesn't like me and she still won't talk to her brother. Personally, if your husband doesn't even talk to his brother then you shouldn't be the one sending gifts. Let it be from your husband.

Are you sure i did not write your story???? My bil and your bil are the same person !!!! After 13 years, finally we have kicked him to the curb!!! It's been 2 years and i am loving it !!! I wish you the best and may you find the strength that i found...

Ridiculous to be sending gifts to him...it should be the other way around. The holidays (IMHO) are for kids...and about kids. Save the money for yourselves, send him a card, or call him. If he bothers to even ask...just tell him you believe the holidays are about the kids...and he is sort of past that stage in life...and leave it at that.

I would be done too... stop spending your hard earned money on a loser. He doesn't call, not even to say thx for thinking about him? He never sends ANYTHING, not even a card to his niece and nephew... cut anymore attempts and just leave him alone - you all will be happier!

My bil is the same, but he has a daughter and I refuse to punish her for his behavior, so I still send up gifts, but I tend to keep most of the focus on her. If bil does not have kids I would not bother to keep sending gifts, just a card.

I would continue to send a little Christmas card, make phone calls. He is still part of the family, just a dunce about making relationships work. It doesn't sound like he is a bad man or has done anything to merit being written off. One day, you may see the benefit of still being a welcoming family to him. I have similar family relationships, we love each other and have concern for one another, but we just forget to call and aren't great at hanging out either.

giving a gift is a choice. he apparently doesn't care if he gets one so don't send one.also it is his choice not to send gifts to your children.thats fine like i said giving a gift is a choice.should never be given with strings attached. as for mil she doesn't guilt you you take that on yourself. she may manipulate but you can choose not to be manipulated.I am not saying don't show compassion but remember he is at a different stage in his life. his mother may be trying to use you and hubby to keep tabs on that son.tell her he can call you and hubby if he likes.He chooses not to.Tell her one day he may be a family man and his brother will have more in common with him.

It's time for a cost/benefit analysis. What are you getting in return for the effort you are putting forth? Taking it a step further, why are you making the effort when you are getting so little in return? My DH and I have some difficult folks in our life, mainly his mom and dad. The time comes when one has to decide whether or not they can accept a loved one for who they are. If they can then that also means accepting the relationship for whatever it is and the fact that it may never be more than what it is at that moment. If they cannot, if that relationship costs too much, then it's time to let it go. While I understand your desire for him to have a relationship with your children, that is something that only he (at this point at least) can truly cultivate. You can allow him access, but you can't make him participate. A relationship takes effort from both parties and work. It isn't a relationship if it's all one sided.
I concur with your follow up. It is time that your DH takes over. If he has no interest then that is his decision and how it will go. As for your inlaws, next time they mention making an effort with your BIL, kindly remind them that you've been doing just that and you've decided to put the ball in his court. He knows where to find y'all and how to get in touch. All you can do is be open and ready to try when he is. Good luck.

No you can blame the ecomony that you cant afford to send presents anymore and he is a big boy now. In our family we just do the kids with presents til there 18.

Tell MIL that you aren't your DH mother she is and to stop emotionally blackmailing you. IF DH doesnt want a relationship that dont push it. You have done more than enough and are gonna go crazy. Focus on the kids. Its a take a bit of courage and she might get mad for a little while but you will feel better and stronger.
I have done this with a friend since i was moving away and nobody else in the group would give the girl a emotional kick in the pants. Funny thing we might not talk but i still love and worry about her but she lost weight, met a guy, and got a great job.

Stop sending him gifts. Just don't do it.

I totally understand how you feel. I can say I always have thanked others for even the smallest gift or card. I've also been raised to send thank you notes not emails, either way a thank you from sending a gift is thoughtful and good manners. Sadly I have been faced over the years with a few new generations that don't thank anyone for anything, not thinking about how a person even thought of them or the act of them giving in the first place. I've noticed shopping that's folks rarely say the words to others "Thank You" for holding open a door, giving them a cart, or at the end to the cashier. We are turning into a thankless society, sadly.

I've given wedding gifts to my nieces and nephews without receiving a thank you card. The countless birthday gifts etc, I don't understand since my sister was raised the same as me, to thank someone.

My advise and this is what I have started to do: send only if you have the extra time/money/or want to put forth the effort. Stop feeling obligated he's unable for whatever reason to respond with manners let alone thinking of others with a card or small gesture of a gift on their holidays, birthdays. Then simply let it go, I have learned to develope this new attitude it sets me free from my guilt and dismay. You aren't being unreasonable in the thought of a simple thank you by even calling or hey texting for that matter. I've learned that people like this I have been expecting too much from them and they aren't mentally able to deliver, so I let it go. Send if you wish but remember not to expect anything in return, it's not part of his make up for whatever reason. I also am faced with my kids have no live grandparents and I've always felt since my sister had all her kids while they were alive she could at least send a card to mine for holidays and birthdays, I expected too much. I only have one sister so I guess that was too much pressure, but she never misses a chance to want from me still when it comes to her older children. I have told my kids I too never had live grandparents so I know how they feel. It doesn't make it better but they know I do know what it's like. As far as my sister I tell them we give when we can and it gives us a good feeling, when her or her family doesn't I tell my kids I guess they don't know what a good feeling like giving is. It's the best I can do I'm not a counselor, they understand and it works for us.
best wishes to you

You're lucky he leaves you alone. My BIL, being awesome, about blew my ear off when I announced he had to pay half the bill for his father's funeral bill (he and DH the only relatives) and that we were not just going to pay for the whole thing. I'm constantly making sure he's not using my husb for money... begging for loans that will never be returned. We are a single income family, and certainly do not have liquid funds. He is by far the most selfish person, constantly making every family issue about him, and throwing tantrums. When there is the moments of peace and good behavior, I certainly give credit, but his overall behavior has sent me over the edge too. Do the bare minimum. If he doesn't want to participate (like my BIL actually told us all he didn't want to participate in Christmas this year), that's his choice. He probably doesn't appreciate your effort anyway, let him do his own thing. Spend more money on the people you enjoy and that enjoy you!

I would tell your MIL how you feel and ask her to stop asking you to call your BIL. Don't buy him any more Christmas gifts, and if he (or your MIL) have the gall to ask why, either tell them the truth, or put the ball back in his court and ask why he doesn't ever get gifts for the kids.

Well, this is clearly not the way the economy of relationships work.

It is extremely rude not to even acknowledge receipt of the gifts you have taken the time to select, wrap, shlug to the post office and pay extra for tracking.

Just stop the nonsense. Send him a card. No money. Christmas giving is meant for children, not for ungrateful adults.

Ok so it is very rude that he doesn't even say thank you. I just wanted to put my two cents in about not interacting with you kids.
I know for the longest time and still even now, I love being around kids, but I don't quite know how to interact with some of them. Could that possibly be something that is going on with him?