Thoughts/advice on Dealing with Family Member W/ Possible Personality Disorder?

Boundaries and advance preparation for the NPD's weapon of choice: pity.

Boundaries boundaries boundaries.

JMO . . .

I've had to deal with mental illness and personality disorders both in my family and in my professional life. I'm a retired cop. BOUNDARIES are essential and the most important way of getting along.

I'm glad to hear you say that "run away" is the way you feel. This feeling gives you the important message that it's time to think thru and build some boundaries. An important one is to not get involved in their drama. Learn how to either quietly listen without saying anything or when to leave so that you don't say anything. Um, uh huh, I hear you, etc. are important words to use. Don't try to reason with them. Their mind works differently than yours.

If possible only be around them when you're feeling able to remain solidly centered. You will have to practice being centered and you will learn, over time, how to stay focused on yourself and what is best for you and your family. As you're learning how to be with this person, know when to and how to leave so that you don't get sucked in to their drama.

I learned when I was having difficulty and started in counseling that I had a co-dependent personality. I believed it was my job to make everyone happy, to include people who were unreasonable. Perhaps you could read up on co-dependency and see if anything fits. I've found that when I know why I'm feeling a certain way, I'm then able to change the way I feel and better handle difficult situations.

Co-dependency is about having successful boundaries; knowing where you stop and other person begins and being able to keep a distance between the two of you. My family did not have good boundaries. It did take many years for me to understand the concept. Working on developing boundaries was the best thing for me.

A person with a personality disorder does not have boundaries. The boundary setting has to come from you. You have to have a tough skin because once you start to treat them differently they will be angry and fight to get you to go back to the old way. Once you feel the fight or flight sensation, leave the situation. Leave the conversation, leave the room, leave the house. Go as far away as you have to to protect yourself from your own strong reaction. In many cases, I'm able to mentally leave the conversation but stay in the room. I can still "listen" but I only hear the words and don't allow myself to think about what they're saying. Sometimes I pick up a magazine and focus on that as I automatically say, "um" every once in awhile.

If you can avoid even being with the person without creating your own chaos, then do so. Because I don't know anything about this person such as age and whether or not they actually have a personality disorder, mental illness or are just simply self-centered, I suggest that no matter the cause, avoiding them and not being involved in their life is a natural consequence for them to their attitude and behavior. If they're young and self-centered, allowing natural consequences can help them realize that they are creating the distance which would give them an opportunity to change. I've seen this help my relationships over time with a couple of people with bi-polar 2 disorder, too.

Years ago, while learning about mental illness, I suspected many people of having a narcissistic personality disorder. Over time with experience I discovered that they were "merely" self absorbed. There are many causes for self absorption. Mostly the person feels unloved. They've learned to "love" themselves because no one else does. For these people, "killing" with kindness often helps. When they are not talking about themselves, whining, demanding, show them approval. If they like to be hugged, hug them when you first greet them before they can get started. Focus on the love you feel whenever you start to be annoyed by them. An utilize the boundaries by keeping your distance while still being in the room.

Very difficult concepts and skills. Just keep trying if you have to be with the person. If you don't have to be with the person, don't be with them.
Taking care of yourself is not selfish! Taking care of your children is necessary. I wish you well on this journey.

Later: When I talk about good boundaries I'm referring to you deciding what is best for you and your family and doing that. You are right you cannot set boundaries for her. A boundary that will work for you in this situation is for you to leave the conversation, if you can, or to leave the room when she said, "don't you have a go at my heart!" etc. What she is saying is unreasonable besides being very angry. Her attitude and words indicate that there will be more violent language to follow and since you've told us about instances of you being vaguely threatened and a stranger shoved, possibly physical violence as well. If she continues to berate you even when you don't respond to her angry words, then for your own safety, you must leave the room. If she follows you, I strongly suggest it's time to leave the house or apt. If she's in your house, it may be time to call the police if she continues to rant and rave. Those are the boundaries I'm talking about.

As a person with police training, I take all threats literally and seriously. I do not give someone the opportunity to follow thru on a threat. In your case, that doesn't mean you can't be around her. It does mean that you need to leave before she gets angry. Do not stay around someone who is unstable and inappropriately angry.

I admire your willingness to be around your SIL for the sake of your husband. At the same time, your post sounds like you're not understanding your need for boundaries. Your boundaries that protect you from her angry words that can turn into physical violence.

I am close to someone, in their 20's, who would unexpectedly become angry and shove whoever was nearby. That sounds minor but all it takes is falling and hitting your head. If your head lands just right your neck can be broken. If your head hits the corner of a table you can end up with a skull fracture. All from an angry shove. So be careful!

This person did not remember afterward how angry she was or that she'd shoved someone. When one doesn't remember one can't prevent it from happening again. This person doesn't do this anymore. She has had therapy and taken medication and is very much different now. It took years but she gradually realized that she wanted to change. My leaving at the first sign of inappropriate anger did help her realize that she needed help.

Also, someone did call the police a couple of times and I believe that although this increased her anger at the time it has helped her to change. She isn't speaking to one family member, as a result, and perhaps it was worth it, tho, we are very sad and mourn that loss.

Because your husband is her brother and if she values his presence, him leaving might eventually, after months or years, influence her to think about what is happening. For this reason, and to protect his family, you are right in thinking that he needs to set the boundaries. He does need to listen to your input. At the same time, you are responsible for your own safety and that of your children and should also have boundaries for yourself. Boundaries for what you will and will not accept and what you'll do when they're violated. You don't need to even tell your SIL about them. They are your boundaries.

I'm pretty sure my Mom has NPD, although she's never been diagnosed. With age & time I've come to realize that while she does truly love me & my kids, our most important role to her is as players in her little dramas.

Christmas this year was a disaster and pushed me past my breaking point. I sent her a letter, because she dodged my calls for weeks after she went home. Basically I told her that her behavior wasn't appropriate or welcome, and I gave specific behaviors. I listed our ground rules for a continued relationship and told her that we loved her and hoped she would decide that she could comply with our boundaries (mainly things like not disrespecting my dh & family, not undermining my authority/decisions with my kids). Fortunately for me Mom lives several states away, so it has been easier to enforce boundaries. However she is coming to visit over Thanksgiving and the pushing has already started. She's staying with relatives (she's no longer welcome to stay with us after Christmas, yes, it was that bad) and the guilt has started since she's not staying here. I just don't respond. She says how hard it is to get along with her sister, I say that's a shame Mom. She says she feels like she's imposing by staying so long, I say I'm sure they're happy to have you Mom. She says she's really only coming to see us I say we're looking forward to seeing you too. Etc Etc Etc.

The biggest thing I've found is to not feed into it. You have to let go of any idealized concept of your relationship - and this can be really hard - and accept your family member as they are. You know what they're triggers are, don't get in a position where you will push any of them. You know what they feed off of, don't feed them. I now accept I will never have the tv version of a mom-daughter relationship, and I'm ok with that. I have a relationship with her - is it the one I wanted? No. But it's the one I've got and I'll make the best of it.

Unless the person themselves, seeks help or treatment... you can't do anything. EXCEPT for learning how to cope with it yourself.... and NOT letting this person, be Toxic to you nor damaging to you/your family/your children. And not "expecting" them to act normal.. or nice even. Because they have a mental illness. AND you cannot.... rationalize with them with normal logic. They do not operate that way.

I have dealt with a family member with a personality disorder... and well, we just stayed away.
Because of the HUGE toxicity... this person caused... to everyone.
I will not, damage myself/my own family.... because of their harm.

all the best,
Susan

I suspect that my dad has this. I try to remember it and not get caught up in his drama. This is easier since I live out of state, and he is currently mad at me. I would try googling this, but I think that if they aren't willing to go for treatment, there isn't much you can do.

my mom has something, not sure if it's just depression though she's attemped meds. Very warped thinking. I try just to talk through limits with hubby and stay firm, with what i can handle and what i have to "run away from". I"ll have to deal with it eventually when she passes, but for now i try to stay as pleasant as possible with out feeding into the crazy.

Everything Marda wrote is perfect. Also know that people with NPD are VERY resistant to therapy. Which means if you truly need to deal with them, you should seek counseling to learn how to protect yourself and set up your bounderies. I hope NPD is not the case because you will never win and they are only concerned about their outcome and will disregard all your feelings as well as never having remorse for anything they say or do. Best of luck, you are going to need it!

I have a relative with a very severe and dangerous personality disorder (BPD or borderline). What you absolutely must do, is read all you can written from experts in the field, and can give you more information that reading some suggestions on a website. It will better equip you on how to deal with things as they come your way, and how to help the person along, or talk to them about treatment if it progresses. And like everyone else said, lots and lots of boundaries and being firm!

I would research a good book on the subject, buy it, and read it.
basic list of symptoms:
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/narcissistic-personality...

http://www.narcissism101.com/# this has an section about coping with it:
http://www.narcissism101.com/CopingwithNarcissists/forgiv...

This article has a list of books on dealing with people with the disorder:
http://hubpages.com/hub/How-does-one-deal-with-a-member-o...

I would contact NAMI and take thier courses. The offer several for family members dealing with people who have mental illness. You will find a great deal of information, and a great many contacts that could help you.

Personality disorders are very difficult. Distance and understanding are probably your biggest preservatives (and wine!)

M.

I strongly suspect that my brother has NPD along with Asperger's Syndrome, which is on the autistic spectrum. He is 45 years old and I have NEVER been able to have a relationship with him. Honestly, I have chosen to just not maintain contact with him. He has done some terrible things over the years and has absolutely no ability to empathize with anyone. It's all about him all the time. Although it makes me sad to not have the brother I always wanted, it's easier to not be in contact with him as it is far too frustrating. As one of the other people mentioned, he can also be violent and has actually been arrested for a road rage incident. Best to just keep your distance if possible.

There are many different types of personality disorders and often a person can suffer from more than one.
A person can have certain traits without actually having the full on diagnosis.
You can google personality disorders.....there's even borderline personality disorder....
There is a sight that gives tips for dealing with people who suffer from the differing types.
I found a great deal of help, not only through counseling, but with the checklists and techniques that I found.

My ex husband has a bunch of different ones and it can be really hard dealing with him, but understanding helps so you know how to avoid conflicts.

I wish you the best.

NPD is not a reason to run away, it's just a bit annoying to be around them very much. You can set good boundaries and deal with them on your own terms by setting the place and amount of time you'll be in their presence.

I think my sister has it although she's never been diagnosed. I just try to keep my distance, otherwise she drives me insane!