Raising a Spirited Child

Parenting is the toughest thing sometimes.

My 9 year old needs routine, he needs to know the plan and if we may vary from the plan? He likes to know ahead of time. He can cope if he doesn't, but he is just happier when he knows what's coming and to sometimes expect change.

So routine is important. But down time is also important. I have ALWAYS give my kids time warnings for changes (leaving the park in 15, now 10, now 5, now do one more thing and let's go, etc). I let me kids know they have the power to chose their day. If they react poorly to things, they will likely get a poor reaction and the day will be rough from the start. So carefully thinking about reactions is important.

I'm glad you all are getting in to therapy - it sounds like it will be good for the whole family.

I addition to therapy, I suggest finding a great parenting class. If you'd said that her behavior at school matches her behavior at home I'd suggest a psych evaluation but if she's fine at school then I don't think that's necessary. Good luck!!

the first thing that is banging at me from this post is that school has good boundaries, a routine, and expectations.
is this the case at home? does she feel safe there?
the fact that her mother, from whom she derives her security and safety, is not sleeping or eating and is melting down herself over and over during the day is a huge red flag.
i suggest it's not you coming unglued from your 'spirited child', but your desperate daughter flailing about looking for an anchor in her life.
i'm glad you're in therapy. i'm glad you're getting it for her.
i hope you're able to make your home a safe, calm, happy place where the boundaries are clear and inexorable and she knows what to expect.
good luck.
khairete
S.

I'm glad you are all starting therapy, hopefully they can get you in the right direction.

This poor kid's life has been kind of a mess for at least four years: multiple divorce plans, accusations of your husband's alcoholism, you admitting many times that you yell way to much at her and she takes it out on her sister and more. I'm not sure this is a "spirited child" but one who has lacked structure and a calm, loving environment.

Therapy is the best place for you to be. Get some support for yourself. Some else mentioned some marital issues--how is that going? Could that be impacting your ability to handle the behavioral issues? Is your daughter aware of the stress at home with a possible divorce?

Getting her in therapy was a great idea too. You're doing the right things.

Good luck to you.

She has structure at school, she knows what is coming next, there is a routine. I am willing to bet the house she has no structure at home so she keeps failing and that is frustrating. I am also willing to bet the house if you gave her structure in the evening these outbursts would stop. She needs to know homework at this time, go back to homework at this time, dinner here, you can play with friends here.

I have yet to see any child that does well in school not thrive at home when structure is implemented.

You are all in or soon to be starting therapy.
Sounds like that could help all of you a lot.

It's ok that she melts down - she just needs to do it in her room - and you (and the rest of the family) need to use ear plugs.
My sister did this - and the only thing that would stop the 'performance' was my Mom (the audience) would leave the room.
When the audience was gone, the show was over.

It's only disruptive if you allow it to be.
When she says horrible things - just say
"You know that's not true. Your Mama is not appreciating the drama. When you can speak calmly, then we can talk about this but until then I have things to do and you can get yourself under control in your room. Come on out to talk when you're done.".
Then ignore her until she's more calm.
Spirit shmeer-it - she doesn't get to rule the roost - don't let her.

If she can behave herself at school - then she CAN and is ABLE to do it.
She senses she'll make a fool of herself if she loses her temper in public.
She needs to know she's making a fool of herself at home.
Maybe you can record her in full tantrum mode and play it back to her later - then tell her to QUIT IT already because you KNOW she's better than that!
Plus it would be useful for the various therapists to see what she pulls when she's having a tantrum.

One of my children had psychological problems that we just tried managing through the years. This caused our other, stable child, TONS of grief and heartache (as well as us). He too, was good at school but loved to create havoc at home. After trying everything else, we saw a wonderful child psychologist and had psychoeducational testing to make sure we knew everything we could possibly know to move forward. There were some learning disabilities uncovered as well as psychological issues. Armed with this new information, we also decided to have genetic testing and found out that his body doesn't process methylfolate (that's HUGE). Good news is now, things are much better for us all. Please get evaluations done. We waited until our family was nearly broken instead of dealing with it early on. I wish you guys all the best.

I agree that some of this could be anxiety. Some kids pent it up all day at school and let it out once home in safe comfortable environment - with people they trust.

Is she introverted? Some kids feel stress throughout the busy long day and need time out when they come home or after activities. They are on best behavior all day then need time to adjust - to let some of the stress or anxiety out.

The therapist will be able to help - give you tools as a parent to cope and not let it affect the rest of your family - and for your child.

Added: One thing we found helpful was always following through on consequences and having firm family/house rules. If kids behave at school where there are rules and consequences, and at activities, then they can follow rules. So even if it's hard to enforce at home or you feel stressed or bad about it, because the other kids don't need so much of your attention, enforce those rules.

When you do, remove the emotions (on your side) as much as possible. Just keep calm (take a moment for yourself if you have to) and just keep repeating "We don't raise our voice in our house, you need to calm down and take a moment in your room until you can use your appropriate voice and rejoin us". If your husband raises his voice and loses temper (your earlier post) make sure he's on board and doesn't model the behavior you want her to curb.

Your previous post in July you had been talking about divorce..

Since your daughter is 8, I'm sure she has been affected by your relationship with her father. Maybe she feels that is the only way to feel in control at home. She is reacting to what is going on and displaying her insecurities.. especially since you say that " it is typically just in front of me or her dad when she loses it"

It makes sense if she is fine at school( where it is always the same, structured, interactive) and she only is having these problems at home.. if she acted the same continually despite the environment it would be a behavioral problem..

It's good that you all are going into therapy..

I have a friend who has a daughter that is similar. Nobody would believe her when she would tell them about the problems they had at home, because at school and in public she seemed perfectly fine, smart, talented and popular. At home she was a nightmare, screaming, yelling, tantrums, meltdowns etc She was mean to her parents and her sister, would refuse to sleep and displayed germ phobic behaviours.. She was diagnosed with anxiety, only after crisis intervention had to be called in, because the doctor wouldn't even believe them. I would ask the pediatrician for a referral to a psychologist.

I do a lot of "quiet time" with our son.

I used to spend most of my time 1) telling him what to do 2) telling him what I disapproved of 3) trying to get him to finish what he was saying so I could get to what I felt needed to be done.

Now, when he comes home, we sit down on the sofa together and have a snack and we don't talk. I don't talk that is...he talks when he feels like it, but I don't do 1 through 3 above. I just listen.

I must say that this is so extremely contrary to my Type A nature that it is a huge challenge of me..but the more I listen and not try to "fix" the calmer he is.

My son was like this and therapy really helped...as did maturity (he's almost 13 now). He also used to say heartbreaking things (exactly like what your daughter is saying) and have huge meltdowns. It was very, very hard on the whole family. The therapist also met with me and it was very helpful for me as well. He did therapy for all of 4th and 5th grade and we found 2 therapists (we moved in the middle of those years which did NOT help) who he really bonded with and who were both great with him. I also used to be in tears often and the stress was overwhelming sometimes. I think the process of therapy (I found therapists who specialize in children, tweens, teens, ODD, anxiety, anger and ADHD. They had the right tools.) helped him to really learn to take responsibility for his own behavior, it helped him to handle his very strong feelings in a more productive way, to recognize his own feelings before he had a meltdown, ways to calm down, etc. It helped me to let things go, to learn to not push for what I think is right all the time, my child is not like me and that is ok, to let him be responsible for himself, etc. He definitely is spirited, gets angry or hurt easily, struggled with anxiety, perfectionism, and stronger emotions than your average person. I am really happy to say that the therapy helped so much...5th and 6th grade years he made incredible changes in his behavior/maturity. He is in 7th grade now and is delightful to be around. I can see him sometimes get rigid and start to get angry about something but we both know to just defuse the situation, calm down, let more things go, relax for a bit and then come back to the issue later. I completely know where you are coming from and I feel for you. It's hard. I felt like I was losing it. My doctor put me on antidepressants which didn't seem to do anything for me. It was just all the stress. Once the stress decreased I also felt better and like myself again. It's really important to bond with your child that is this hard...do things they love to do with them, find humor, laugh with them. They really can cause so much stress for the whole family and it pushes you away. I am really glad you have found a therapist and are starting to do this...but don't be afraid to try different therapists to find the right one for your child. PS - Reading others responses makes it obvious that different kids have very different methods that work. We were very black and white with our son and each and every time he was acting out he had consequences (going to his room for example). The therapist taught me to be less black and white...it was just leading to all out war at home. His personality was such that when he got older (5th grade) he told me that he has always felt that he would rather die than give in to us. Even when he knew that he should do x and he actually wanted to do x. He would not give in. Ever. That explained a lot. He was actually starting to talk suicide. Giving consequences every time was NOT working. We had to take a very different approach and treat him like he was mature and let him decide on a lot of things. It is hard as a parent (for me anyway) to not be in control because I was raised in a very controlling way. But lo and behold by handling things differently life got a lot better. That was just one of many things that we worked on with the child/family psychiatrist. I don't know if this would have worked when he was younger though...and we did need help then. I should have started him seeing a therapist earlier...it would have made life a lot easier. I don't know what will work with your child...everyone has to walk their own path. Some parents unfortunately think that what worked for them will work for everyone. Don't let other people make you feel bad about your parenting...just keep working at it. We all get better at this as we go along.

Read the Explosive Child.

I had a very spirited child.
I found that strict rules and consequences were exactly what he needed. If he did wrong, he knew what to expect - instant and consistent consequences. I was consistent with his discipline. I never waffled. I never made excuses. If you talked back, you went into time out. If you whined, you went to your room until you could talk without whining. If you yelled, you sat in time out. If you were rude at a party, we left - right away.
He had a schedule - it may have been different from day to day, but he knew what to expect.
If we went somewhere, I was very specific about my expectations for behavior while we were there. Basically, it was no hitting, no yelling, no rudeness, no back talk. If you cannot behave, we will go home. No second chances. When it is time to go, I'll give you one 5 min. warning. Then, we are leaving in 5 minutes. You will cleanup at the 5 minute warning.
Have her help you with the house rules.
If she is invested in the rules and the consequences, she will be more open to good behavior.

I have 2 of these kiddos. From your post, I would bet that she has sensory processing disorder and would greatly benefit from occupational therapy. Counseling is an awesome idea as well. Check out the book The Out of Sync Child by Kranowitz, it really helped me understand SPDs. I also belong to a facebook group called fussy baby site https://www.facebook.com/groups/422937147844151/?fref=nf. This is for toddlers/preschool, but I think it will really help you a lot. There is also an SPD group and a group of parenting kids with Anxiety. I would start with the one I gave you. You will realize that you are not alone, and that just because you have a spirited kid, doesn't mean you have to be so stressed out. There is help! PM me if you want to.

Therapy will help. In addition to that get the book 1,2,3 magic. Her "losing it" is a way to get your attention. She needs To learn how to do that without melt downs. And you need learn to tell what's just temper fits and what really needs attention. Temper fits just to get her way should not be rewarded. But likewise true need for attention should not be ignored.

I dealt with some of those sayings...including my son saying he just wanted to die or no longer be living.

Although at the time he was 4 almost 5.

I took him to the therapist who told me that he was what is called a highly sensitive child. She told me to get a copy of The Challenging Child by Dr. Greenspan. The book covered five types of kids that are just plain hard to parent and figure out.

Then we came up with a plan to reward him not having out bursts like you mentioned above. And a treasure chest he got to pick something out of when he used emotionally appropriate words. Like, instead of leave me alone I want to die....he would learn to say, I am feeling very frustrated right now and angry at myself because I feel out of control. I can control myself if I sit in time out. Then he would take some time to calm himself and do some deep breathing. He had a rime out to calm down zone...that was for him to use when he needed it.

Slowly he learned to name the emotions he was feeling overwhelmed with....check out the book and see if your daughter falls into any of those categories. My son could keep it together for kinder at school but at home he was a hot mess.

Learning to name how he was feeling helped a lot...later finding out he had inattentive ADD explained a lot and medication ended up being a salvation to him.

Start with Dr. Green span's book and go from there. And maybe get an appointment with a child psychologist to visit about ways to help her learn self control.

I would suggest a behavioral therapist (sounds like you are on your way there) and reading the book, the Explosive Child. That helped us early on. It turned out that our daughter has anxiety and ADD. Once she got treatment for both, she's a very happy kid. I tried everything before the diagnosis, diet, sleep apnea surgery, therapy, reading parenting books thinking it was us. It's not parenting, by the way. :) I always knew that deep down, but you get so much advice about how you need to do this and that and not let them "rule the roost". Yes, but these aren't neuro-typical children and they don't respond to typical parenting styles at all, no matter what the style or method used. We do see a small correlation between food dye and behavior too, btw. But, the main progress we saw was when she finally got help and medication for the ADD. She describes that she is happier, her thoughts aren't jumbled up anymore, she can learn quickly. It's amazing to see her come home and willingly do her homework now, compared to the fights we had for years. ADHD isn't just about focus, for my daughter it also caused severe emotional outbursts. The anxiety also doesn't help with frustration and behavior as well, since she is so "good" outside the home and then is comfortable enough at home to really unleash.

I highly recommend behavioral therapy and major empathy on your part. Less discipline and negative comments, more empathy and understanding really helps my girl when she's frustrated. Any time we get even slightly worked up, she feels it. She's very sensitive and we have to make sure we keep everything calm or she can sense the stress.

The other thing to mention is that you should sit down with your other daughter and explain that this is not her fault and that her sister is not acting the way she wants to act. I had to explain to the doctors that I was very concerned for my son, and feel that they finally took that seriously. I don't think they completely understood the toll it was taking on the family and especially her sibling.

Good luck. You are doing the right thing by getting her help. For now, keep in mind that no child wants to act that way. I always have that in the back of my head when things get stressful.

This may seem cheesy, but have you read the five love languages of children? It's a great read! Learn her "love language" and it might help. Please let us know what you've tried and if anything works or doesn't work.

Hi G.,

I agree with the posts below. I will also recommend this book: Parenting with Love and Logic. It was an excellent resource while mine was younger. He's 15 now and in his freshman year of high school. you'll get through this, utilize as many resources as you need and make sure you're not modeling this behavior. The calmer you stay and the less you engage when she's having a tantrum the shorter they will last. Lastly, I recall saying this to my darling son... "when you've calmed down and can speak with respect, I will discuss this issue until it's solved." and once he calmed down, we did just that.

Best of luck to you. the sooner you resolve this the better because they only get bigger and stronger...but you know that. :-) S.