4 Year Old Going Thru Second Preschool in Less than 6 Months

I only read through the responses quickly and didn't see this suggestion exactly. I agree with getting him in to see a counselor for teaching him ways to deal with his emotions, but you might also consider having him evaluated for Oppositional Defiant Disorder. I don't personally know anyone with this disorder, but it sounds like it might be worth looking into. Good luck!

What does he do when he loses his temper? I'm asking because I have noticed my 5 year old's temper has progressively gotten worse (birthday 10/13/04). He doesn't direct it at his classmates but will do them to teachers, staff. In forder from frequent to not frequent: not paying attention to the teacher, destroying things (luckily not valuable things), scratching, and it happened once he bit one staff and pulled the necklaces of another.

You're not alone, I'd like to see what other parents' responses are.

have you tried a therapist? someone all of you could go to? perhaps that would aid with "communicating" on his part? just a thought! I wish you much luck and it will be fine.

Have you sought professional counseling to get advice? You sound like you're past the point of casual tips about this or that possible trigger. I'd ask his pediatrician tomorrow for a referral to someone who can evaluate him and evaluate the techniques you're using to deal with him. What you're trying isn't working, and you say the issue is with his temper and not with the preschools themselves, so it sounds like it's time for a trained third party to look at things for you and work on his anger management skills with you. Sometimes it really, really helps to hear someone who does not know you, whom you do not know, and who has no emotional investment (in other words, not a friend, not a grandparent or aunt or anyone like that) give objective, outside advice. But you and your husband will have to ask yourselves if you're both willing to listen and make changes based on a counselor's ideas. I've seen posts in the past where women said their husbands saw any counseling or outside intervention as "being weak" and "letting other people into our family business." But it isn't about judgement, it's about the child's future. If you don't deal with this lovingly now, you will have far, far worse problems as he gets older.

Meanwhile, remember that kids his age can recite rules all day long, but the rules are merely words to them; they won't stop and reflect on any rule when in the heat of the moment. Also, check out his diet (sugars, artificial colors etc. can jazz kids up to the point they act out); review what he watches on TV and/or computer games he plays (even if he's not watching "violent" TV, too much TV whatever the content can shrink kids' attention spans, which translates to easier frustration and...acting out). If you can bear it, maybe go back and talk frankly with the two preschools about details of his behaviors there if they didn't tell you earlier -- what seemed to set him off, were there times of day when he was more violent (when he might have been hungry? Or were his issues with switching gears from one activity to another, which some kids find difficult? Did the teachers try to redirect him when he started to "go off"?) etc. If you approach them with a sincere attitude of "We don't understand this behavior and we have to help him now, so please help us understand," they may well talk with you.

And bear in mind, since he's four and kindergarten is on your horizon: Please do not send him on to kindergarten until this is under control! I believe you can hold him back if you choose -- find out how, in case he's still got these control issues when it's time for him to start kindergarten. Several times now I've seen kids enter kindergarten when they were not socially and emotionally ready for it, and it's a recipe for disaster not just in the kindergarten year but for several years after. Good luck. You CAN deal with this -- he's young and still forming, and needs to learn impulse and anger control and he will, with some new techniques.

If you're looking for a place to get him evaluated, perhaps you might try The Kingsbury Center's Diagnostic and Psychological Services. www.kingsbury.org. You would get a thorough evaluation and recommendations on how to help him, including appropriate school placements. Good luck!

Maybe the preschool is too simple for him and he doesn't feel challenged. I had a preschool for 10 years, and had some 3 year olds that were reading and others who didn't even know how to hold a pencil!!!! Maybe he's just tired of doing the things others his age are doing.

At home---instead of always having negative consequences. What do you do positive when he does have a good day????
If he knows he'll "push your buttons" if he has problems at preschool, he'll think, "the way I get mom's attention is if the teacher gives a bad report, so I'll be bad". Just ignore the bad.

Do give lots of praise when he has a good day!!
Grandma N.

Your community will probably have someone that can come and observe him in school and make practical suggestions to the teachers. He probably needs a behavior plan that is developed for him at school and is reinforced at home. For example, he would have a sticker chart in school. The teacher can jot a note everyday about how he managed and send it or email it home. You can have a supply of something he really likes at home if he acheives whatever reasonable milestone you and the teachers set. In the beginning it should be pretty easy to meet with success and then get increasingly more challenging. Good luck!

Have you had your child evaluated by a professional? If you live in Anne Arundel County - contact Child Find - this is a free service. Even if you don't live in AA County - perhaps they can refer you to some agency in your own county. I am not saying that there is anything wrong with your child - but the pros at Child Find can observe the child in your home and in pre-school and perhaps can find a reason and some solutions to this behaviour.

You don't specify if the violence is true, deliberate violent actions, or is more like impulsive actions such as lashing out with hitting, or throwing a toy, etc. One of the common symptoms of ADHD is impulsiveness, which can manifest as hitting, biting, etc. Has he been evaluated for ADHD? Is he an only child, or is he doing this to get attention away from siblings? Does the behavior show up more often if he doesn't get his way? All these clues help to point to a diagnosis. What does your pediatrician say? What about a child psychologist? They are very skilled in helping to analyze what type of disorder, if any. Books can be very helpful, but a trained specialist gets to see your child in action. Sometimes children with ADHD are academically bright or even gifted, but are frustrated by their inability to focus, or they can't express what they think or feel, particularly at age 4 or 5 when emotions still rule them. Give him plenty of love and affection, no matter what, and get thee to a specialist!! Good luck.

Does he *have* to go to preschool? I mean, is this a situation where you both work and need the preschool as a childcare? If not, then if I were you, I'd take him out and let him stay home with you. He is obviously not ready for a setting like that. If you are not able to do that, then you might consider hiring a sitter for him (with no other children). I doubt anyone would want their children around him with that type of behavior. Strong-willed is just a catchy name for misbehaved!

Aside from all that, you both need to nip this in the flower (I'd say "bud" but it's past that now!). You say you've done all these things to punish him, but obviously none have had much, if any, impact on him and you need to let him know who is in authority. It is much easier to do it now, than 10 years from now! And believe me, he will feel safer overall knowing you are in control.

Strip his room completely of any toys or anything he might play with. Sit him down and tell him--WITHOUT EMOTION--that the next time he gets "violent" no matter what time of day it is, he will have to go to his room for the remainder of the day (no matter what time it is!) and will only be allowed to come out for 3 minutes to go to the bathroom. Then tell him his bedtime will be 1 hour early the next day.

Now here's the key: You must stick to this and you cannot let him out of his room no matter what. If he cries, let him cry and if it bothers you, tell him the door must be closed while he cries. If he whines, tell him you do not talk to anyone who whines. If he wants to talk to you about it, tell him that you will talk to him about other things, but you will not talk about his punishment for violence/misbehavior.

And I will reiterate once more: do not back down. This is likely why nothing you've tried has worked--either you backed down from a punishment you gave him, or you didn't stick with it and do it every single time he misbehaved. If you stick to your guns NO MATTER WHAT, he will learn that you are in charge and that he must respect your authority over him as his parents.

Best of luck to you!

A. - Mom of 2 boys, ages 9 & 15 & 1 girl, age 11

Have they determined what his triggers are? My 5yr old DS was horrible with transistions and a few other things are guaranteed to set him off. He will lash out in frustration. Maturity has helped, but we have a ways to go and also decided to remove him from kindergarten and homeschool. However he also displayed some of this behavior at home.
Has your son been in any sort of class or structured program before? My son does great in a relaxed setting of no more than an hour (less when he was younger), if he enjoys what he is doing. You don't say which books you've read, but two that have worked for us are:
Raising your Spirited Child by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka and
Setting Limits with your Strong-Willed Child by Robert J. MacKenzie, Ed.D.

I think your son is not ready for school yet. Take him out of preschool. Perhaps next year he will be able to handle it. AF

It could be something in his environment at school, such as cleaning chemicals or snacks they use that you don't use at home...

I recommend every parent read the book by Dr. Doris Rapp called Is This Your Child? It is worth its weight in gold. In it you might find some pretty simple answers to figuring out what may be triggering his behaviors. Here is a link to it: http://www.amazon.com/This-Your-Child-Doris-Rapp/dp/06881...

Warmly,
JennyC.

I think you need to visit the school he's currently attending and see exactly what it is that's going on that's causing him to be violent. I bet his prob. is following directions. Because boys who have a prob. following directions tend to get violent. If that is the case you need to pay attention at home what you do in that situation. To you make him follow directions or do you always give him choices. Something you do during the day at home is not the same as school. They can't offer him choices they have many children they can't fight with him over every decision that has to be made. You need to start making it that way at home also. Good luck. R.

What is triggering the violent temper? Is someone picking on him or is he perceiving that someone is picking on him? Is it that he's not getting his way? Is this happening at certain periods of the day? What's going on? You'll have to find out from the caregivers of the first school and this one as well.

There are so many reasons this could be happening. Maybe your child is not ready for preschool. You didn't describe your home structure, or lack thereof. If he's got rules to follow at daycare and none at home, that could be a huge trigger. Would it be possible to find an elderly woman to sit with him in the daytime at your home for the same pay or a little less than what you are paying for daycare? Can you match your home environment to his school environment? Should you? These are things you and your husband will have to consider once you figure out what is causing the violent temper.

Another option is the type of preschool. Maybe he's a child who would thrive in either a Montessori or Waldorf program. You didn't write if you have him in public school preschool or a church-run preschool. The private church-run schools tend to have more structure and rules, and he might just be rebelling against that type of environment.

We had the same problem with our son. Although he was never kicked out, it was getting close to that. We worked with the preschool and broke the day (he was there all day as my husband and I work FT) up into 5 sections....arrival, morning, lunch/nap, afternoon, dismissal and he could earn a sticker at each period if he listened and was good - his goal was three stickers a day and he could get a prize from the treasure chest......we slowly moved it up to earning 5 stars.....We really founf the positive reinforcement adn rewards gave him more incentive. We also all (teachers and me and my husband) made a really big deal..clapping and happy and hugs when he earned 3 stickers.....it made him want to do better and better.....I hope this helps!

I would contact his pediatrician to discuss this. But is he an only child? Do you know what triggers his outbursts at school vs at home? Is it the teacher showing authority or discipline, having to deal with other children that he is not used to, not being able to handle transitions? Is he not getting enough sleep? Preschool takes a lot out of them, and my 3 yo is a different child when he is tired. If sharing and interacting with other kids is a problem, you may want to try a parent child activity or play group to get him socialized. our preschool uses the 1-2-3 Magic discipline technique. there is a book and also a video. We use most portions of it at home with them too. My son is not violent, but he can play rough. My daughter was known to throw violent tantrums at that age at home, but not at school, usually when she was tired, and when she didn't get her way, because she didn't know how to communicate problems. she was and is still very strong willed. If you do go to another preschool, find a way to observe for the first few days to find out what is causing his issues.

I would look for a private home provider. They have smaller numbers and can offer your child more one-on-one time. Also, they are less strict about when you can/cannot eat snacks, how long you have to do something, etc.

My son was in a public center. They would give them 20m to eat. Sometimes my son would be done, and sometimes they would take the food from him. He also liked 2+ hr naps and they would wake him up after 1.5h. Home providers are a bit more willing to work with your child as far as likes, dislikes, normal schedule etc.

Another option is to hire a nanny/sitter to come to your house where your son is comfortable.
Good luck.
M.

Get a referral to an OT for an evaluation. My otherwise loving 3.5 yo can get violent when his personal space boundries aren't respected. He has a hypersensitive touch response. It was so hard as a mom to realize when he is hurt he doesn't want me to hold him to comffort him you could try reading sensational kids or the out of sync child in the meantime as well

Have you talked to your pediatrician?? There are so many development issues that this could tie into. For a preschool aged child to show this much agression, he really needs outside help.

Call you pediatrician today and start there. If you get no help or vague answers, contact a child psychiatrist for an evaluation. If there is a "condition" going on, it will be easier to deal with it once you know what it is.

Between therapy and/or medication (depending on the reason and your beliefs), it may be the only thing that will help. But you don't know until you seek help.

I commend you for what you've done so far. I too had a child go through a very rough and aggressive period in first grade and it was horrible. We as parents felt so inadequate, the teacher was wonderful but she could only do so much, it was affecting his grades and making friends as well. It took months but we finally got an evaluation and it turned out he has ADHD. After much thought and tons of research, we tried medication and have been very fortunate to have our wonderfully sweet child back.

Bottom line, seek help and start with your pediatrician.

Good luck,
Jules

my daughter is in a small home daycare. i have seen our provider work with kids that lash out and it's amazing how they grow in her care. the combination of fewer children and her patience has worked wonders and now they child seems happier in addition to better behaved. sorry we are far from waldorf but maybe you can find a situation like ours where you live?

I think you should go to the school and find a way to quietly observe without him knowing you are there (if they will let you now that he has been dismissed). You are his mom and you know him best and maybe you will recognize the problem. Does he have other siblings at home? Just curious. Children get used to routine and that includes how we as parents "deal" with them. If that's all he's ever known, then maybe he's having trouble with the combination of having all the other kids around and the way the teacher "does" things. It's a big adjustment for children. Now with that being said, I don't think that his behavior is appropriate and since he has been kicked out of two places, maybe you need to find a private daycare provider that can more closely monitor his actions, but one that does have other children so that he can get used to playing nicely with others. Just a thought. But it will be your responsibility to let that daycare provider know what she is "in for" and whether or not she's up for the task. I've had this exact situation happen to me with the very first child I ever took in when I started childcare, so I knew what was in store for me (he had also been kicked out of two places). It started out rough, but he learned the rules, and he is now 7 (he was 3 1/2 when he came to me) and I don't do care for him anymore, but we still keep in touch and he's a great kid. Through time we found out that he has adhd (not suggesting that your child does) and a few other medical diagnosis as well. You may have to pay a little extra each week for the extra "work" that may be required from your provider, but if you find someone good, it will be worth it. Maybe a homey, smaller setting with a "mommy" is what he needs right now so that he can ease into things. That way he won't feel so overwhelmed. Sometimes baby steps are required, even for us adults!! Just remember, this kinda stuff doesn't last forever. God Bless, B.

So sorry to hear that! It sounds like he might not be ready for preschool. There are lots of activities through the park district you can do with him, if that's an option. You might wait until the absolute latest year to send him to kindergarten when the time comes. Hopefully he'll mature and it'll work out just fine.

Try Rex Forehand's Parenting the Strong-willed Child. We used it with our daughter when she was 3-4 years. If you actually implement the steps - it does work. I didn't think anything would help with our daughter. We had done EVERYTHING to get through to her but her behavior was UNREAL. We tried this book at the recommendation of a cognitive-behavioral pyschologist and it worked. Good luck!