Need Some Advise for Discipline for 12 Yr Old Daugter

You might want to try "Love and Logic", this is a parenting book by Jim Faye. He has one for teenagers and younger children. I have found it helpful.

I am a middle school teacher and one thing that my students always say is that they feel that their parents don't listen. One suggestion that I give them that has been very effective with some of them, is to start a journal with their mom/and or dad. Set some ground rules--let her know that she will not be judged and it's a safe place for her to share her feelings, a time line for example she can leave it on the counter before she goes to bed and she can expect a response by morning. Start the journal out by writing to her about her strengths and the things you really admire about her. Tell her about the things that she has done that you are proud of. This will start the dialog. Have her write you a letter back. You can then use this to communicate things that your concerned about--friends, chores, fighting with her brother. Use this tool as a way to explain to her that the things that you do are out of love not anger. The journal will give you both time to process whatever is written without feeling pressure to have an answer. It also takes the heat of the moment anger out of the equation. Good Luck

Your sweet, helpful and polite daughter has been abducted by aliens and replace with a demon child, yes?

What has happened, really, is that her child brain has fallen out and her adult brain hasn't grown in yet. Pretty literally, actually.

In preparation for dramatic physical growth of the pre-frontal cortext (intelligent, careful thought, centred at the front of the head), as many as 30% of her neural connections have been severed, leaving her with this collection of behaviours and problems:

*no short term memory function
*no impulse control (the hitting)
*a window of extreme addictability
*the inability to remember simple, longstanding family rules
*no motivation
*no ability to understand cause and effect
*highly emotional responses
*mood swings
*a loss of the sense of herself
*no cohesive sense of her behaviour as it relates to her
*no understanding of what is happeneing to her
*depression and anger resulting from all of the above...

Fun, hey?

It is a period that last about 16 months, is particularly acute initially for about 3 months and WILL PASS.

I think that last bit is really important to understand -- this is not who she has become, it's just a period of transition for her brain to be able to understand and use abstraction.

This is a period of time when supervision is vital -- they are often in a position to make very silly choices, and because of their age we are often persuaded that they are 'old enough' to make them. But in 16 months, they will have a different, more functional brain. Right now, they're handicapped by the process of change, and need to be cared for -not as if they're evil that needs to be banished, but as if they are incapable (because they are incapable) of doing for themselves.

It helps to think of them as having diminished capacity, and to take care of them as you would a 3yo. Or someone with a brain injury. Which is pretty much the case, at least initially.

welcome to pre-teen hormones!!! I noticed you said you had 1 child in sports, your hubby works part time-goes to school full time and you're working full time-school part time.
I work full time, go to school and do an internship for 15-20 hrs a week.
D., I have grown kids and grandkids. There is no way with my schedule I would have time for younger kids, and your husband seems to have the same type of schedule only reverse as you.
So when do you have quality time-let alone time for your 12 yr old? 12-13 yrs old was the worst time in my hormonal pre-teen to teen age life. My emotions ran high (about EVERYTHING) and your daughter may be an angel to people who she thinks listen, talk and understands how SHE feels. Thus her resentment is being directed at her parents and siblings. Does she get less attention than the other 2 kids? Does the sports-kid get more accolades from you and his dad than the 12 yr old? Does she hang with kids you don't like to be rebellious or get your attention? And she's a middle child-perfect one out of all 3 to act out! Let me guess-she's probably very bright, more outgoing in some ways, tends to do things her own way, and on the go?! Her problem-is middle child-I-don't-get-enough-attention-syndrome.
Would a counselor help? Yes! Find out also what she is really angry about....that may be a good issue for her behavior.

I'm just curious, you labeled her as the middle child, does she feel like she might have to live up to he ramifications of this label? Unfortunately this label does not just identify a birth order but also has some negative connotation.

Sometimes, although we love our children equally, certain kids need a lot more validation. As parents we are so trapped into the notion that kids should adjust to us. We develop expectations and come up with a cookie cutter type of parenting. The truth is we are the adults and it is a lot easier for us to adjust to our kids needs. Our children do get older but they never stop needing us as parents. Have you tried having time alone with her? Just the two of you on a regular basis that she can look forward to.

The fact that she is a perfect angel around everyone else proves that she is simply trying to get your or your husbands attention.

Blessings,
D.

I have two younger children, but by what you are describing, it sounds like she is crying out for attention from everyone!!! I have a great book for you to try, written by a mother and daughter- 100 Ways to Build Self-Esteem and Teach Values- by D. Loomans with Jlia Loomans. Its a little old for my kids, but it might really help you with yours!! Good luck.

hi D.;
our son was the same age and did the exact same thing several years ago. it was a sacrifice on my part, since i had a super nice job, but we found that he was acting out, to get my attention. i wasn't there when he'd get home from school, i wasn't there when he left for school in the mornings. i quit my job and made him a priority. he is our younger of two children and our only son. we also made rules and limits and boundaries when it came to his friends and activities and within a few months we began to see a different boy emerge. please don't think i'm judging you, since i have only empathy for what you're going through, but quiting my job, spending time with our son, doing more together at home as a family, even though he fought us on it, began to make a world of difference. we also got him involved (against his wishes) in our church youth group and even though he led us to believe he hated it, the director began to see changes taking place in his behavior, attitude and involvement levels. don't give up! my husband and i worked together on each step. we didn't allow him to divide us during any of the ordeal. we did find prayer, personally involving ourselves in every area of his life finally paid off. he's an affectionate, level headed adult now and calls my husband nearly every day for one reason or another.
i will pray you will find the right answers for your situation.
J. in michigan

No negative labels ! Children have an uncanny way of living up to labels.

Hormones -frustration- fear-a lot going on in that growing body !

Children NEED to know the limits, in no uncertian terms. Hitting will NOT be accepted.

Your Daughter feels 'out of control" and she is . Her body is driving her 'nuts'.

I had to remind myself that 12s and teens are still children in an adult size body . Hmmmm ---- gets confusing for everyone.

Tell her in no uncertain terms what is acceptable and what is not -if she acts like a child -treat her like a child. You may have to get creative here. Twelve year old privileges will have to be revoked.
If she is fighting and hitting while you are busy with something - she will just have to sit near by so that you can keep an eye on her ( like a 2 year old) Good opportunity to have some alone time with her too.

I had to seek out a parenting type class, it was free, all I had to do was to buy the book. The parents there had some one else to talk to and could bounce ideas off one another.

One thing you have to do is to "pick your battles"-- Hitting is out - but pretend you just don't see the rolling of her eyes. Disrespect is not tolerated but there times you just have to pretend you didn't see some things.

I had to develop a case of the "Stu-pies" on a regular basis.-You know , like just not hearing that 'last word' she just had to get in , or not understanding the little act, or overreaction going on and so forth. Some times no reaction is the best reaction .
I am impressed that you are seeking out some help. You sound like a wonderful Mother !

I am a 74 year old mom,grandmom and greatgrandmom. As for your concern about your 12 year old, I would suggest you find a little time each day just for her. Name it her special time. She is going through a difficult stage - period. Kids need time more than anything. Sometimes we feel special treats and etc. are the answer or punishment, but I think she is trying to tell you that she wants you. I discovered a long time ago why grandparents are special. It is because they have time. We have grandkids calling and coming all the time and they just want peace and quiet.grandmas food and grandpas fish stories. I will keep you and your family in my prayers.

D.
Sometimes our children really need us and this is the way they let us know. Does the grounding work? If you are indeed VERY busy, take time to find a way to regularly spend time with your daughter that is just special for the 2 of you----maybe polishing nails or a foot massage you give each other. Something like this may give you chat time to know each other.

R.
a cool book is The 5 Love languages of Children/Chapman and Campbell

At 12 she is, if not already, experiencing hormonal changes. So a couple of things, what is her diet like? You know what is she eating/drinking? Getting a good pure source of protein and regulating her sugar intake will help. Protein balances the blood sugars and creates an even tempered person. Drinking water is good. Also, she may be doing it for attention as well. Being the middle child is difficult.

If I can be of further help, let me know. I provide personal phone nutrition consultations.

M.

It's not a quick fix but - spend more one on one time with that middle child (read about middle child syndrome books) and praise the positive, seek it out - they really want your love and effection.

From: mother of three, www.dianealbo.myarbonne.com

I am going through the same thing with my 12 year old daughter. She has been diagnosed with ADD, which messes with her impulse control, so she is now on meds (which we are in the process of fine tuning) and also seeing a therapist. It is still new, but I have seen some slight improvement.
Her case may not be the same as your daughters tho, and I have always said that kids lose their minds when they hit puberty, and do not regain them until they hit about 20 or so ( I have 4 older daughters and have gone through this with all of them to some degree, but not to the point I am with my youngest)
She may have some jealousy issues going on about her siblings,(especially being a middle child, the oldest gets to do more than her, and the youngest gets more attention for being the age he is) and that may be why she is picking on them, or some issues of her own due to puberty that she does not know how to deal with. At this age their friends are more important to them than anyone, as they are beginning to assert their independance, and a counselor may be a good idea, so your daughter has someone impartial to talk to and listen to her, and teach her new ways to control these undesirable actions.
Good luck, and make sure to take your own time outs to keep your sanity.

Maybe try to take her out to supper just the 3 of you.Try to get to the problem. But sometimes the extra attention will backfire.
I would justtry to find a counslor.. make an appointment and take her.Tell her it's not just about or for her,you want to go also to resolve this issue.She sounds alful resentful a hard thing to over come.
There is something much bigger going on inside her that she cannot work out herself. She does need to learn how to process these feelings before she hurts someone..or herself.
heck i dont know.. but it sure sounds like she is on self destruct. A third party might be able to see whats going on.

Hi, Do you have one on one time with your daughter? I saw that you're a blended family, is that a recent change? Did she use to be the oldest and now she's not? Some of it is being a normal 12 year old with crazy changes happening to her body. But she does need to know that it is NOT acceptable to treat other people like that. I think it sounds like you are doing a great job. Teenagers are hard to figure out. Just remember, whatever punishment you decide to do, be consistant. If she knows you mean business, it will eventually stop. Good luck!!

I agree with everyone who said spend more time with her. Get to know what she likes, who she likes, why she likes. Maybe if there is an adult that you feel would give similar advice and she is comfortable with, you could allow her to confide in that adult without you and your husband "knowing". Like a counselor but more of a friend, and it would HAVE to be someone you trust to give responsible advice. My husband and I have just started reading The 7 habits of highly effective people by Stephen R. Covey. This book focuses on Character ethics (integrity, patience etc.) instead of Personality ethics (power strategies, quick-fix influence techniques). It's a really great book so far! This would be good for you and your husband to read together and maybe your daughter as well.
Good Luck!

I would definatly seek counseling to help her understand why or what she is so angry about! I had this trouble with my middle daughter too and counseling and anger management were very helpful! We found she wanted more of our attention and more of our time and through family counseling we learned how to manage our time so each child got a little quality time! I am a mom of 5 children and I know it is not easy! my youngest is also adhd/autistic so...! Good luck and don't hesitate to ask for professional help!

S.

Hi D.,

I think that the response given by the grandma is the best. You need to spend more time with your daughter. She is probably feeling neglected and wants to have something that she can call her own that can't be cancelled or rescheduled (such as lunch or a shopping date). If you don't have the time, make it (your husband too!). She'll only be twelve for only 1 year. Think back to when you were 12. What did you need most? She just wants you. School can wait...believe me. A loving and healthy relationship (for the rest of your life) with your husband and all your children is more important than getting your degree by a certain date. She needs you.

A book that might help is "The birth order book" by Kevin Leman.

I hope your relationship will improve to the point that you will miss each other the moment she leaves the house to go to school in the morning. I have that feeling now for both of my 2 older kids (12-yr-old daughter; 10-yr-old son). I'll pray for you too.

Hi D.,

I definatley know where you are coming from. It is such a challenge at this age. I have two girls right at that age group! I know that when you are in the midst of dealing with that kind of behavior it is tough to see things clearly, what I TRY do is step out of the situation for a moment and tell myself that this child is needing something and she is incapable at this time to express it to me in the way that I can understand. When I tell myself this, it is easier for me to look at her objectivley instead of the usual pointing finger and accusing her of total family disruption (even though that is generally what she is doing) my oldest is the one that I usually have trouble with. We are a blended family as well. She is used to being the "only child" even though we have all been together now for a few years. She is a beautiful and bright girl with a heart of gold, but that girl loves to stir the pot! To tell you the truth, I kinda like 'em like that! Oh, one more thing, I don't know if you pray but that WORKS too!

I will keep you and your family in my prayers.

Blessings,
C.

I am having the same problem with mine. She is in the middle school and she seems to know everything. I am very frusterated with her as well. Last night I found a letter that she wrote about 10 minutes in HELL. She says that it is her way of letting our her frustrations with out yelling. The only problem is that she is still yelling at her little sister. She does good in school as well. I am also taking a parenting class to get some ideas on how to handle some of the situations. Its called the Love and logic. They have a website i think its loveand logic.com. Some of the suggestions I have tried and some I do not agree with. The ones that I have tried have seemed to work to a point. The best advice that I have for you is to stick to your guns and do not give up hope. You need to remember that you are the parent and she is only 12. It is a hard age and alot of changes are happening to her and she may not understand why she is being the way she is. I hope that this helps. Any suggestions at this point always makes me feel like there is light at the end of the tunnel. J. K in michigan

Personally? She sounds like a normal 12 year old to me. Maybe one with a few bad habits, but pretty much normal. 12 is a tough age for girls. Not old enough to be treated like a teenager, but not little enough to be a little child either. Do you have an aunt or a grandma she can talk to about things? Try using a reward system and calmly telling her that you won't put up with her tantrums and rude behaviors and if she wants to be treated like a lady, she's going to have to learn to be one. ASK her if she'd like to go to a counselor. I wish you luck with this, but you'll probably have to just wait out this phase. She'll eventually grow out of it and in the meantime, let her know it's unacceptable and be sure to reward her with things she likes or likes to do when she's acting appropriately.

I will be praying for your family. I have a 10 year who does the same exact thing regarding her brothers and older sister. I've noticed that she wants her older sister's attention. And regarding the younger, its just attention seeking behavoir that should not be given too much attention. I practice separating her the other children when she feels like she wants to act up. Also, I've found out that out that spending time with her one on one helps as well.
When I talk to her in much love, gentle tone I get a great response where she acknowledges the things she has done and sincerly wants to apologize.

It will work out. Don't become frustrated and please don't allow her to see you frustrated.
Sonya
Working Mother of 6

This is a rough time, going into the teens. They're discovering themselves. I would try charging her every time she's out of line. A quarter, for instance. Or a dollar. If she wants to hang out with certain friends, sure's shooting she wants some $$ to spend too. Charge her a dollar for every infraction. And either use it yourself, or put it away for a future event for her. If she doesn't have her own money, withhold her allowance.

My 3 boys learned through a TaeKwondo program that being disrespectful and disruptful will get you push-ups. One it is a good time out and makes the student think. Secondly it's a positive discipline, as the student physically benefits from doing push ups. Thirdly they learn self defense, confidence, competition, rewards. It's really a win win situation. If you're in the Milford, Northville, South Lyon or Ypsi areas, let me know and I'll put you intouch with the program.
Besides all that, you may need to see a counselor, but that doesn't always work either. Been down that road too. Often the middle child thinks they know everything.

I have the same problem with my 12 year old daughter. Currently, she is grounded from t.v. because she pushed her little sister. I have tried everything too. After reading your story, it sounds like our daughters need some one on one time alone with their busy moms. I think I will try to schedule every Sunday afternoon, lunch and a movie or shopping.

I was going to write for advice on what to do with my 13 yr old today! My husband and I both work full time with 3 kids and they are all very busy. I disagree with the therapy suggestions. Many of the responses talked about labels and the kids in middle school get labels and someone going to therapy is a label I wouldn't want for my children.

It is a tough age age and we notice a difference when she gets tired. They need more sleep than they want to admit. Check that she is sleeping not texting at 10 PM. We have just instilled an earlier bed time and we hope that will help.

I don't buy the middle child label and my husband and I are both middle children. That probably has little to do with it in my opinion. For time with just your daughter, I drive with my daughter. It is a confined environment where shhe can share with you and have you all to yourself. Just going grocery shopping together helped talke one time. Nothing special or expensive, but show here how busy you are and how she can (and must) help. Hitting the younger brother happens in our family to on occasion. While it is wrong, with hormones, being tired and "issues" from friends and school, I consider it normal. I needs to be corrected, but know you are not alone.

It sounds like she is doing it to gain attention. As you said, you are all busy, and she is the middle child. Not your fault, of course-just part of life. Try ignoring some of the small things, you can't battle everything. What is her favorite thing? Take that away. The longer the punishment is (month), the less effective it is because they feel like they will never get it back. Seeking a therapist definately isn't a bad idea.

She is having middle child syndrome. Do you do or have you ever done anything special with just her? If not, trying planning things with just her like bowling if she likes that or going to dinner just her and you or her, you and dad. Take her to the movies if that interests her also. Trying makeing plans with each of the children like that seperately, but I would start with your middle daughter first. It sounds like she is feeling left out. Good Luck!

Yes, please see a family counselor. It is not normal for a child her age to be hitting other children, for one thing. Being the middle child, she could have some issues that need to be resolved and this is her only way to express it. She sounds like a very frustrated child and may need help beyond what you and your husband can give. I speak from experience - counselling does help.

She may need counseling,drug test if you feel this behavior is out of character for her or more one on one time with you or your husband. Are there some things she likes to do? Maybe being so busy in her perception she is not loved. Notice I said her perception. It gets tricky when they get to be teenagers. They feel we are dumber than rocks and they know everything.
Good Luck,
D. O

It must be the age! You just described my son, exactly!

My advice is to get her set up with a counselor. A 12 year old has a lot going on, developmentally, physically, emotionally, and she would be more likely to open up to someone who is a neutral third party.

When she does start counseling, don't be a part of the sessions unless the therapist asks you to. You will more than likely be suprised by her change in attitude just being able to vent to someone and try new behaviors with. This is about her, let her have this time to explore issues on her own.

Well, you probably don't want to her this, but every time I hear of major problems with a teen they are from divorced parents with step parents involved.

First: This is so traumatic for kids, and I feel our society has diminished this social problem, by saying kids are resilient and will be ok! Kids are not ok and this will affect their lives forever. I suggest counseling for the WHOLE family.

Second: You all sound way too busy to give enough time and attention to three children. Parents underestimate, the time and attention teens need. Everyone knows how much babies need, but then seem to feel that as soon as their kids are teens they can be left. They should be taught to be independant and reliable by being left alone on occasions, but not on a regular basis. So, one of you may have to put school on hold, then pick it up when the other is done. Isn't the welfare of your family worth it?

Third: Since you are so busy do you find time to eat together as a family EVERY night! Do you go to church as a whole family? Spend time as a family on a regular basis, and find time to spend with each child individually.

I know my advice is straight to the point, but I feel it is needed. I am sure you love your kids, that is why you have asked for help. I am a Social Worker, and have worked with teens, I assure you these steps will help.

GL:)

Hi D., boy do understand! My middle child is also my daughter that seems to stir the pot and picks on her younger brother. She is almost 9. All that I can say is that I am constantly trying to make sure that I am not blaming her for EVERYTHING...which can be easy to do. I think somewhere along the lines, we got into the habit of blaming and almost expecting bad behavior. I find that what she needs the most is love and support and maybe some alone time with just me. I think that she got used to the negative attention and because all kids want attention, she has gotten in the habit of getting the negative. I have labeled her as my "challenging" one. And then realized that I shouldn't be labeling her! So, just being able to discuss this with her and ask her what she needs, does she feel loved, what would it look like to her to feel loved? I would definitely consider a counselor to help everyone try to "undo" the habit patterns that may be in place. More than anything, you want her to feel valued and loved! I can TOTALLY relate! There may very well be underlying issues with her father and the divorce. And this is a very difficult time with puberty, middle school and peer pressure. Take charge now and let her know that she is so special and loved that you can't stand by and watch her make bad choices...God bless you! Good luck!