Need Opinions on Son Getting in Trouble at School

It is not always easy to be the bigger person. Some of the very people who advocate that do not always follow that advice....

What exactly did the girl do that "started it?" That might just be his justification for getting in trouble.
My dd had some boys in her class a few years ago that kept telling her she was ugly (which she is not!). They got in trouble for it...but it stopped.

I have to go with you on this one. It doesn't matter who started it, or who else said what, he is responsible for his actions, his words, and his unkindness. She is responsible for her unkindness, her actions, and her words. I teach middle school, and this is what we, as staff and teachers, reiterate over and over and over and over again. Two wrongs and two wrongs, and there is no way to get a right out of them. Your husband and daughter and others are thinking about this in a concrete tit for tat way and not in an upper level executive functioning way that we want our kids and adults around us to think.

We had to deal with the mean girl. What a mess she was! And her mom wasn't any better. We made it very clear to our kids that just because she's mean does not mean that you need to or should be mean back. It makes you no better then them and they've won. We taught them to walk away and not keep fighting because that's what she wanted. She wanted them to fight back to her so she could run to her mom and get them in trouble. It was insane!
Always be the better person. If someone is physically hurting you, of course defend yourself so you can get away. Your goal is not to inflict worse damage on them though, it is to get away and get to safety.
Please don't teach him "tit for tat" and please talk with your husband. It's not appropriate and doesn't solve anything.

Just because someone starts an argument doesn't mean that one has to respond.

I think that's the lesson that is missing in all of this. Your son is old enough to be taught that when someone starts to pick on him over stupid stuff, walk away. Or "that's your opinion". Your husband should be old and savvy enough to understand that for kids who have less, sometimes their social skills reflect the hardship in their lives. My son had a girl in his class whose life was just terrible, and so her behavior was mean toward other kids and reflective of her circumstance. While she *was* annoying and did some terrible things to get attention, I reminded him regularly that "her life is really hard, just try to ignore her. I know it's not easy, but she doesn't know any other way to get attention right now."

If it got to the point that the teacher made him call you, yes, enough is enough.Perhaps, instead of buying her a new pair of shoes, you donate part of his 'clothing budget' to charity.This will be less embarrassing for her and more instructive for him. (it's his action receiving punishment completely unconnected to her.) If it were me, I'd also be talking to my husband about how we want our son to handle problems in the future. There's nothing wrong with holding one's tongue and walking away when people are just giving you a hard time, or telling them "That's your opinion, I guess" and walking away. Life if full of blowhards and if you learn to *let* them press your buttons and get a rise out of you, there will be more trouble ahead.

I think you train your child to be kind. And from what the teacher says, this was not a one-time retort, this was your son ganging up on this girl with other kids, and doing it more than once.

So I agree with you.

So, in his dad's opinion, if someone starts something, it's ok to retaliate - an eye for an eye, so to speak. After all, the other person started it.

Ok, so what if that argument gets taken further? Let's think a few years away when your son is learning to drive. Is his dad going to suggest he strike back if someone cuts him off while he's driving? Should your son speed up and cut that guy off? After all, the other guy started it.

There was no "defending himself" in what your son did. Defending oneself is when one is threatened, not engaging in back and forth teasing or insulting. If the girl made fun of your son, its up to your son to take the high road, ignore the insults, and realize that others may have insecurities or troubles that makes them strike out at people.

I would definitely not intervene in that girl's life by buying her shoes. You have no idea what her home life is like. Maybe there's a real financial need, like a serious illness, in her family, and shoes would just seem so trivial when compared to her mom or sibling needing chemotherapy, or having a huge hospital bill.

But, it sounds like it would be worthwhile for your son to learn empathy. Donating some of his belongings to a shelter would be good. Donating his time to a charity like Habitat for Humanity would be a good thing, too. And it would be good if you did some role playing with him, and teach him how to respond to an unkind comment, or when someone is making fun of someone else or someone's belongings.

Now, if someone is physically abusing a young child or a defenseless kid, I encourage your son to jump in and defend the defenseless. Your son is not defenseless in this case, however, and by responding in kind to a girl who is making insulting remarks, your son is lowering himself to the standards of an insulting person. And that's never ok.

1. You are right to expect him to be the bigger person.
2. But you can still empathize with him that it is natural to want to fit in with a group of kids and it can be very tempting to go along with them or to try to show off for them. Work on other ways to connect with them.
3. There is no such thing as too much empathy for how hard it is to grow up and find your place AS LONG AS you make it clear that you expect him to be brave.
4. Being brave means ignoring it or not going along with it if she starts something and certainly not saying anything back.
5. Being braver means telling the other boys to cut it out and walking away.
6. Being bravest means reaching out to the girl and actually being nice to her. Being bravest probably would take a lot of role playing practice at home. A lot of What Could You Do Instead when this girl starts up? Distraction is one of my favorites: Hey, we're going to shoot baskets. Would you like to come? Hey, were we supposed to do pg. 27 or 28 for math? Hey, did you see the flag was at half mast today? What do you suppose that is for? Hey, did you watch Show X last night? Or Hey, you did a good job on your presentation today!

I totally understand your anger and I agree with you, however, you cannot buy the girl shoes. If you are interested in helping the girl, you may want to get to know the parents, apologize for your sons actions, and then see if you can help.

You have to keep in mind everyone is raised different. Your SO included. You can't change that, but you can help your son understand your opinion and expectations.

I have found one of the most humbling things my daughter has done is work the food pantry at her school/church. I had to work and the school was not providing after care for a particular day. I asked her friends mother if she would mind picking her up and keeping her until I got off. She did and too keep the kids busy, they went to go work the food pantry. She learned there was a place to go if one needs food. She learned there are people who need help. She learned her friend's dad no longer lived with them. She learned her friend ate from the pantry. The biggest lesson of all, was that she should be thankful for all of the blessing she has because not everyone has them.

We never know what people are dealing with, even those who are close to us. Perhaps now that you can take a breath you can help him find his humbling experience.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

I think we have all heard that expression. It is one thing to defend yourself if someone were hitting you, but to make rude comments because the girl did first is not right.

Your husband should be teaching his son to be a better person, someone that will ignore rude comments.

Your SO and daughter are part of the problem. They think it's okay to treat someone like this. Their excuse is that "she started it".

You won't change him if you are swimming upstream in your own home.

You need to get your son involved with a mission of some sort - soup kitchen, homeless shelter, etc. You also need to get your daughter involved. Your SO? Would he go?

Until your son understands that being privileged comes with societal responsibilities, he will not care what he says to others and how he acts in regards to their outer appearance. Your SO has evidently forgotten, or was born into money.

I have to tell you, if my sons had acted like this, there would have been hell to pay. And they wouldn't have been able to buy ANYTHING, much less go shopping.

I am curious, what specifically is this girl saying to your son? I find it hard to believe the girl would start the teasing knowing what will be dished out. The fact that other kids are teasing this girl too makes it even more unlikely that she is starting it. No one wants to instigate a bunch of other kids ganging up on them.

I think I would make my child wear an old out of style shirt I would purchase from Good Will for a day. This should remind him how lucky he is that his family can afford nice things for him. He should also realize that kids are at the mercy of their parents for their stuff and he only has nice things because you buy it for him.

I would also make it clear that his life as he knows it will come to an end if you ever get another phone call like that. One thing my kids know I will not tolerate is lying and meanness.

You are right here. Your husband and daughter are wrong. What is that saying...an eye for an eye makes everyone blind. Defending himself should NOT mean making fun of another person. I think you should have talks with your son (and daughter and husband for that matter!) about how to handle situations like this. Having the integrity to do the right thing is hard. It's hard when a kid in your class is saying something mean to you in front of your friends. How should he handle that? Taking the high road in life is not easy to do. You sound like a great mom. Time to give some life lessons on doing the right thing!

Ok. Here's my take.
The girl is trying to get a rise out of him and so far - it's worked.
It's a game (well, a head game anyway), and the way it goes is first person to lose his/her temper loses.
Much like publicity - any attention, positive or negative - is still attention - and this girl wants some.
Your son needs to adopt the attitude that she is not WORTH his attention.
Let her yammer away what ever pops out of her mouth - and he just has to yawn and ignore it.
That's all there is to it.
She will eventually get bored and try getting attention in other ways.

Your son isn't wrong the way you are thinking about it - he's wrong in that he's allowing himself to be played - it's putting her into control.
That her shoes are old and dirty is irrelevant.
I don't think the teacher was right to excuse the girls behavior.
She might be envious - but hey - there's ALWAYS SOMEONE who has more than you or me - and we all have to deal with getting over the envy.
Someone has a bigger home, a newer car, the latest electronic phone/laptop/ipad/toy - we all deal with this - this girl needs to learn how to deal with it too.
You don't go out and buy her anything - else she's playing you too.

There's the old saying that two wrongs don't make a right. I've told my daughter that if someone is bothering her, she needs to come up with another way to handle it than to get herself in trouble. She had trouble with a girl a few years ago, and shoved her in irritation in lunch...my daughter got in trouble for shoving the other girl, nevermind who was bugging who first. Even if she starts bothering him first and even if other kids chime in, he should do what's right and not perpetuate the teasing/bullying. If it persists, he or you can go to the teacher and say, "He changed his behavior but..." "But she started it" is a poor defense.

I wouldn't punish your son for how he dresses, or make him give her money. I would ask him to just stop teasing her. You didn't specify what she teases others about, and it may help to talk through those specifics as well. If she teases him for his white shoes, is it jealousy? Can he see it as something to shrug off vs get angry about?

Making fun of the girl who made fun of him is NOT defending himself. He is making fun of her, doing the same thing she just did. I hope his dad and older sister will be able to understand the difference.

If it's OK for your son to make fun of her, it's OK for her to make fun of him. Back to "two wrongs don't make a right."

A., I say do what you decided. I agree with everything you said. It was so level headed. Teaching your son boundaries will be endlessly helpful for him in the long run. Can you imagine what would happen if he said something inappropriate as an adult and in the workplace. He would be fired.

i was thinking the same thing as i was reading...but i wouldnt give the if option. i tend to give a lot of things away, and i involve my kids. if i get something new, or already have something, that i know somebody needs, i have a sit down with my kids and talk about why the other person needs it. then we go together and i let my girls give it to said person. now i have the problem of trying to make them understand wants vs. needs. they try to give brand new toys away to other kids just because the kid likes it and asks for it. i would rather them be overly generouse than selfish though. i think maybe he needs to see just how bad things can get for children and families without a lot of money and options. maybe he will see that she is lucky to have shoes and her wardrobe does not change the person she is. it sounds like she needs a friend to tell her this too. if she is making fun of others it is probably because she is embarased and getting a little bitter about what others have. i am sad for her because if she continues on that road she will let herself be molded into a spiteful bitter person. she needs friends.