Manners for 4 Year Old

Hi C.,

I too have a grand daughter who has this same behavior. She is 2 1/2 and lives with us full time. If you should get any advice on this, can you please pass it on to me? Thank you very much & good luck.

dear C.,

i understand your concern and went through a similar phase with my son, he is now 6.5. i asked his ped and a very good friend who is a child psychologist and both told me that this expectation for a child of her age is unrealistic.

children at this age are usually not mature enough to handle the emotional impact of direct eye contact, they perceive it as an invasion. as with anything this reaction operates on a continuum with all children and she may be feeling things more intensely than others.
punishing her will only intensify the situation and potentially make her withdraw even further.

with my son, we tried to give him as much pre-event preparation as possible, who they will meet, how long we would be there, etc. we also practiced these skills, eye contact, shaking hands, responding to questions, at home with eachother. in addition, giving her lots of support in the moment is crucial. time and love is the best medicine in this case.

best of luck,

S.

Good morning C., I know that you are just trying to teach your granddaughter manners, but you must look at this differently. In the prosses of thinking of others, you have lost sight of thinking of the child. At 4, developmentaly this age goes through a severe shy stage. You are demanding that she get passed it, which WILL make it worst. You cannot command a child to overcome what comes natural to them, instead just gently nudge her. If she doesn't feel love, support, and security in the two women she loves most, then her shyness will become a major problem for her through out her life. Just like potty training, let her set the pace. Imagine how afraid she must feel, being turned against in thie setting, aren't her feelings as important as the grown ups feelings? If other people expect that she greet them a certain way, just explain that she is shy. Please try to understand your granddaughter, she needs you and her mother. Good luck.

I have an almost 4 yr old son and he's the same way... We call it being coy. Sorta short glances and even if the person is right in his face he won't respond...
If its someone HE knows he's ok with talking to them, but others that he doesn't see on a regular basis or know at all you can't pry the word out of him. My 6 yr old daughter was like that until just under a year ago... They do grow out of it as their brains mature and grow... But all in their own times...
Heres the flip side... Would you want her talking to every stranger that she saw? Don't we try to teach our kids not to talk to strangers and not to feel comfortable enough around them to go places with them? Its one of those which one is worse situations.
When my kids do talk or respond to a question I reenforce it. AFTER we are done talking to them i tell the kids that was a good job you answering the question... Good job...
Plus at almost 4 my son still needs me to clarify some of his statements... Dang Lisp... :-)

C., time for a new game,play the "shopping' game, get dressed up silly, put on a hat, dress like a man.... or have a friend meet you at the store, (let your grand daughter get dressed up).. OVER EXAGERATE introductions, shake hands, shake until her whole body shakes, say hello and bow or curtsey, introduce her or yourself as the queen and princess, say hello in new languages! If she gets "shy" in a new place, make it silly, say "excuseemwa" we seem to have lost our voice, is it in her pocket, behind her ear...? Take a small doll, introduce her as your granddaughter, let the doll shake hands. at 4 it is a control issue she has learned, make it fun instead. I hope it works for you. ((Mom of 5, grandma of 1 stubborn 6 yr old, childcare provider of many, now retired)) K.

C., first of all, kudos to you for caring about your granddaughter and for helping your daughter! I think you have to take into account that your granddaughter does interact with her sibling, who probably doesn't respond appropriately in social situations due to their impairment. So, that is being modeled...

I have had similar issues with my children, though. Particularly my 9 year old son who has Asperger's Syndrome (sort like a mild autism.) I'm not saying your daughter has it, but do take into account that some kids are just not social. They have to be taught what we take for granted. I can't believe, for instance, that I still have remind my kids to say "hi" to their friends when they pass them in the school hallway! My son especially doesn't seem to understand how that might make the other person feel. You might have to role play these situations at home and talk about facial expressions and body language. My son has a very hard time reading people. He is more interested in things and toys than people. Maybe he'll grow up to be an engineer or something? Anyway, be patient and keep modeling the social behavior you desire. Remember that to some people, interacting with others is like navigating a minefield!

Two of my children were exactly the same at the same age. Yes other people might think they were rude, but I just always commented that to the person that they were very shy. I have to agree with others who commented that your granddaughter is not doing this on purpose, she probably is just very uncomfortable with others she does not know well or at all.

We never pushed the issue...we just let them progress on their own. I would let them see me speaking to others (such as cashiers in the store,etc) pleasantly and nicely. Both kids have definitely come out of their shell and will sometimes look to me to make sure it is okay for them to speak to strangers but honestly isn't that almost better than having them talk to everyone. Sometimes being cautious in this day and age isn't a negative!

I would just let her progress on her own at her own time without making an issue out of it. The more you make of something, the worse it can get!

K.

A couple of things come to mind...

The first one is the designation 'rude' when the child may be cautious of strangers or unfamiliar situations, unsure how to act and certain she's going to be punished if she puts a foot wrong. It's a paralyzing experience, and doesn't take very many repetitions before complete inaction is achieved.

Second, the child has been overly-cautioned to avoid speaking to strangers (a category into which your friends fall, for her even if not for you), and is genuinely fearful of the danger she's been convinced comes with strangers.

The third thing that comes to mind is the premise that somehow being threatened is polite, but refusing to respond to demands for attention from strange adults isn't. Perhaps just another example of 'everything adults do is fine, they all get to judge you' that children so often experience. Since it isn't this child's job to entertain your friends, it is probably very difficult for her to see why they need her to do anything. Surely, they're all grown up and can take care of their own emotional neediness without villifying a frightened child over it?

The fourth thing that comes to mind is that no one is dicussing how the child is feeling, or acknowledging that her difficult circumstances may be inconveniently bleeding over into the rest of her life, that she may be fearful of life in general at present, that she may be overwhelmed and confused by her life, and is not currently capable of playing along with what is expected of adults in our society.

It is interesting to me to note that in more crowded countries, where fewer people have rooms to themselves, it is badgering people to respond that is considered rude. If people indicate that they are not 'at home' to interruption at the moment (by not responding), it is the height of rudeness to continue bothering them. Here, it is considered rude to refuse to be interrupted by someone else's agenda, particularly if the interrupter is over 50, as if age somehow confers some kind of exalted status that cannot be ignored. Of course, it is never considered rude (here) to interrupt a child, their time or agenda being considered to be of no value whatsoever.

It has been my experience that threats and punishments are excellent methods of making worse a situation that is already not working. Children behave in sensible ways, according to what they've been taught and what they've learned. If she's learned something that is inaccurate, it's hardly her fault if that comes across as 'brat' to judgmental people. Honouring their opinions is hard for me to endorse. If she is fearful, threatening her will make it worse, not better (as will punishing her). If she's distracted by the amount she has to deal with in her life, neither threatening nor punishing her will uncomplicate what she has to deal with.

When my kids (or children in my care) went through times when dealing with other adults was too much for them, I assume the position of 'guard' between them and the world, in order to accurately convey that I felt it was my job to protect them from the demands of strangers, however kindly misguided or needy they were... not to make them perform like puppets to demonstrate my wonderful childcare skills. Mostly, it strikes me that these people are unhappy, judgmental and, frankly, can go lick their wounds somewhere else, rather than getting me to join them in expecting a 4yo to take care of them.

Surrounding the child with love and affection will do wonders for the amount of fear she feels about life in general. Fear-free people are the ones who freely and happily engage with others.

THAT IS MY DAUGHTER... All morning she is a little angel, talking about making cards for her friends at school (she is 4 too) and then we get to school and her friends walk up, and say "Hi Alyssa" and my daughter turns and looks at me and rolls her eyes and WON'T talk to them... This has gone on for about a year, she did this somewhat last year too. I've threatened to take her back home, and leave school. I've threatened her other friend can't come over anymore. and she does it with kids she plays with in school and kids she isn't so close with. I don't have any advice, just hope it is a phase and our kids grow out of this. I are it is very embarresing...

She may just be getting attention. I don't think most 4 year old think their being rude. You just need to keep modeling the right behavior. I'm glad to see you are concerned about it, because of my 13 year olds friends, few say hello and acknowledge anyone. Now that is being rude and they do know better. Keep up the good work.

Sounds like she just misses her mom. But still....She is only 4. And kids are very selective.
She doesn't understand the concept of 'rude'. Maybe it's protective. Don't forget that it's always been a major rule 'don't talk to strangers'. Okay so no one taught her that yet. Don't squelch it.
Try having, e.g., some cookies when you have company and turn it into a tea party that she can participate in. Or a little bribery might work (smile and say hello and you get a cookie)
Whatever works. I wouldn't worry about it too much, tho.