I'm Sorry, but Your Daughter Is Annoying...

Tell her "At this age, I leave it up to Lisa to pick who to spend time with. I like Suzy and I know she struggles to make friends. She's a nice girl but her strong personality pushes people away. She and Lisa really don't click."

It's both honest and kind.

I would say exactly what Lynn said, but only if she pushed me to get the girls together. I would also make a few suggestions. "Why not have her join the math team, or band, or cross country."

At some point you just have to be honest with her. I think the problem is we are not honest with others because we fear the fall out, no matter what she is coming to you and you have to warn her that if you answer this question she may not like the answer but you will give it should she ask again.

Approach #1: Tell her your daughter is really busy with school and other activities and you leave it up to her to set up get-togethers and choose whom she spends time with. After all, they aren't 4 years old anymore.

Approach #2: Be a little more blunt and let her know that her daughter's behavior and "strong personality" have started rubbing your daughter the wrong way, or they just don't seem to "click", and it might be best to give your daughter some space.

"She is terrible at reading social cues." Your words. So maybe it's not just natural pushiness; maybe she really does not understand how the social scene works and there's no one to teach her.

And you've seen her in action at school with many kids, not just yours.

You already know the girl has one issue in her home life --a mom who isn't really helping her, though the mom seems to be doing the best she can in a tough situation. They are BOTH floundering socially -- the girl because she doesn't know where the boundaries are on her loudness and pushiness and doesn't realize they drive kids away; and the mom because she doesn't know how to teach her child other ways to behave.

And you say you feel for this girl. So, why not try to help a little? That does NOT mean forcing your child to befriend her if that's not happening naturally. But as a parent who has been in the classroom, you have a little more leeway to go to the teacher and/or counselor here.

Since you've seen the whole classroom dynamic in action, why not talk privately to the teacher and say -- not from the aspect of "Keep her away from my daughter" but instead from the perspective of "Let's help this kid have some successes" -- that maybe the teacher could work with this girl? I know, I know, teachers are not counselors, teachers are busy, yes. But if this girl were paired by the teacher with the right kids for some group projects, or if the girl were given some opportunities in class to shine in an area in which she's got something to say or some talent, it might help her, and might help other kids see her differently.

Also: Some school counselors hold weekly or monthly lunches in their offices for rotating groups of students -- not counseling sessions, just times when the counselor invites groups of kids (or individual kids) to bring their lunches to the office and talk about whateve they like with her and each other. That might be a starting point for this kid to talk to a counselor and get some middle-school tips on making and keeping friends and letting others have a say, etc.

Just some thoughts. When dealing with the mom regarding your daughter, I like the poster who replied that you could leave it at, "My daughter's really busy, and also, at this age, I'm letting her arrange her own free time a bit more these days....." And regarding the party bad-mouthing: If you are there when she does it, just say, "Hey, you know how times and money are tight for many families, and no one can invite everyone to every event. I'd really let it go."

I agree your daughter is at an age where Mommy does not make play dates. I would tell the Mom that you do not get involved with your daughters social plans.

If the mother confides in you that she is worried then I would take the opportunity to make some suggestions. I would not tell her that her daughter is annoying. I would suggest a local therapist or communications class to help her daughter learn how to socialize. If the other Mom takes your advice and is appreciative you were honest, then you will have done a service to the child. If the Mom is insulted and stops talking to you...... you no longer have to worry about her pushing your daughter.

Just stay away.
Your own child does not like this child.
You cannot change that Mom nor her attitude.

You either, give in and "make" your daughter be her friend. And this will then be a forced, friendship, and your daughter will get pressured and stressed by it personally and by other peers perhaps.

Or... you steer clear of this whole drama. And teach your daughter, that she has choices. And that, you are not going to FORCE her to be friends with this girl and Mom.

If you make your daughter be friends with that girl... you WILL also then have to, be friends with this woman and have her at your back, and you will be at her beck and call.

Just know, that all the other sane Moms... probably KNOW that this woman is off her rocker and that she will bad mouth anyone who does not do as she wants.

Do not be bullied.
And teach your daughter that too.

You either, become a "social worker" to this girl AND her Mom... and inherit all that toxicity into your and your daughter's life.... or you don't and you be appropriate for yourself and your daughter.

You cannot change, this woman nor her daughter.

The daughter and the Mom, needs to talk to the Teacher, and the Mom can get her daughter counseling or something via the school. If the girl has issues... which she does seem to have. It is for a Professional to handle.

I would steer clear.
You have to safeguard your daughter and her well being, and yours too. And you have to.... choose, what you bring into your home or not. Whether that be problems or not, from others that you know... are not good for your daughter or yourself.

You do not have to let this woman control and bully you, nor your daughter.

Ive known kids just like this. It is many times the parents fault to start with, so the M. isnt going to understand anymore than the daughter.ugh. If she corners you again begging for the girls to be friends, just tell her, "Im sorry, but I let my daughter pick and choose her own freinds at this age, and for some reason she and your daughter just dont seem to click.. what a shame huh?" and then say "oh gosh I gotta go, Im late for an appointment!" and walk away.

This post and the responses break my heart. I am the mother of a son with Asperger Syndrome who doesn't get the "social cues" either. And I've watched him struggle with making friends since kindergarten. I know I can't push other kids into "liking" my son or wanting to be friends with him. And we have worked with him since he began school on how to be a friend and be kind and all of that.

Unfortunately it hasn't made a difference. Because he's "a little off" and doesn't "get the social cues" people still don't want to be friends with him. Because he doesn't fit into their little ideal of how people should act. He can't help it, but they don't care about that aspect. All they care about is that he doesn't "act right" and don't even give him a chance, or take the time to REALLY get to know him.

It hurts him and it damn near kills me.

Gosh that's tough, and I'm not sure what you should do!

I would probably continue to be nice but distant. I would not force the friendship between my girl and hers (not that you are). Perhaps you can get "off the hook" by saying "well, I'm trying to let Daughter arrange get-togethers now that she's in 7th grade."

I feel badly for them, too, but you can't make it your problem.

I think you are being waaaay to hard on this little girl. You say that you have always encouraged your kids to be friends with kids on the outside, and kids who are struggling socially. Then you turn around and say that this girl does not get social clues. HELLO this is the type of girl that clearly needs a friend, and you are encouraging your daughter to turn her back on this girl, probably because she is not in the "popular" crowd. And this girls mother is also clearly doing everything she can do to try to help her daughter out. Sometimes kids with social problems, don't get it. I have a son that way. I am just waiting for him to get a little older, then hopefully he will "get it". But in the meantime, I know exactly how this other mother feels, and you of all people should too. You work at the school, and you are a leader. So you should be encouraging all the kids to invite her into their circle. What a good opportunity you have to teach these girls the true meaning of friendship, and helping one another out. That doesn't mean that you have to include this girl in everything you do. But you could really make a difference in this girl's life, if you would just invite her in, and have a little tolerance yourself. You'll never know what it means to a socially immature kid, to be asked to go somewhere, or to be invited over for a little while. Try to change your mind about the mother too. She is just trying her darndest, to make her daughter happy. Heck she's even having parties to help her daugher meet more people. I do agree that the mom does not need to bad mouth others for not inviting her daughter to their parties, but can you see that it is hurtful that she is not being included???????

I agree with AV. I wonder if there's a reason the girl is lacking social skills. Our son has ADHD and we've had a QEEG done that shows exactly where his social skills are stunted in his brain. Kids with conditions on the autism spectrum tend to have a hard time picking up on social cues and understanding how to interact appropriately with others. The mom sounds like she may be in complete denial that her daughter has any issues, so I'm not sure what advice to give you. In those situations, the moms don't tend to want to hear any feedback.

If she brushes it off you might take a moment to say, "No, Suzy, really, Sally's personality is overwhelming for others."

I wonder if Sally is just clueless or if there's more going on. Sometimes kids who don't pick up on cues are ADHD or are on the autism spectrum and high functioning enough that it doesn't register as being the issue. One of our friends has a son who was OVERWHELMING as a young boy. Eventually they found the right medication to treat his ADHD and he's a new kid.

And, sometimes, they just are who they are and it's not always a personality match. If the mom doesn't pick up on cues, either...

At the end of the day, if your daughter doesn't like this other girl, then she doesn't have to. Same with the comments from the mom. "I can't speak for the other parents or their children. So how's the weather?" Give her no audience for her venting. You didn't say she was a friend. Just someone who latched onto you. That says a lot, IMO.

Like mother like daughter.

I like what DVMMOM suggested.
I would be blunt. Let her know your daughter has her hands full with classes and she and Sally don't click right now.

Distance yourself and your daughter from this pair.

During my fifth grade year, I was having a problem getting along with the kids in my school. The teacher found me crying one day and gently, but firmly explained to me what I was doing that was turning the other kids from being friends with me. It hurt badly for me to hear what she said, but it did help me to change my ways and learn to become more social with my classmates. Is there any way you can be this type of mentor to the girl?

I would definitely play up that at this age your daughter makes her own social plans now that she is in 7th grade and sorry, but you do not think it would be appropriate for the Moms to "make plans for them to get together" as may happen for much younger girls. They may or may not have enough in common to form a friendship, but that is for the girls to figure out for themselves if they want to. I would tell this woman perhaps she should step back and encourage her daughter to do the calling, asking, and inviting herself. She may get some rejection, but at least she'll know faster who to move on from pining to be friends with. And that will free her up to reach out to other people. Also encourage her to join some activities, and stop texting during class time because her peers are only going to get irritated if she gets them in trouble.

Invite her mom to join this board and read this message. BUT FIRST! Change your profile city!!! LOL

As they say....The fruit doesn't fall far from the tree. Sounds like her moms the root of the problem. I'd probably handle this the same way you are. Your doing whats best and are wise not to get to involved. I think you've evaluated the situation and would gladly help if it seemed helpable. We can't help everyone. There is more to this then just the young girl. Unfortunately the reality of our world is there is a lot of disfunction .

Does not sound like you are "too nice" to latch onto. You can only distance yourself from people you do not want to socialize with, same goes for your child. This woman may not be the mother of the year....from all that you have described, don't think you would win first prize either.

OMG! Sounds like the mom is annoying, too. I agree that the daughter and mother need a wake up call. I think perhaps the only way mom or daughter would get one is if a peer tells the daughter what's bothering them. Ex. " I don't like the way you try to control things." The same thing goes with the mom. I don't think having an expensive party will make other like one's child. It must truly come from the heart to be someone's friend.

I thought it as a good call in your part to listen to your daughter and not attend the girl's party. You are teaching a good value in acknowledging that she dos not have to hang out with someone if it's not a good friendship to begin with. Good for you!

Moving the child to different elementary schools? It sounds like mom and daughter need professional help on social cues. Then again, that's the parent's responsibility.

This whole situation makes me so sad. Being a middle school age tween/teen is hard enough, and then to not have any friends is heartbreaking. And it sounds like you are raising your daughter to be a good and empathetic person...but one can only do so much when someone is socially stunted.

It sounds like you really really don't want to be put on the spot and have your daughter "forced" to hang out w/ her, but do not want to cause hurt feelings.

1) Don't tell the mom what you see in her daughter. Even if she seems to not get it, I think on some level she does and that would only hurt more. (as a mom, we all want to help our kids make friends and fit in...but there comes a time when we have to learn to step back and let them fend for themselves.

2) For now, just be vague and always be "busy" when she wants to plan something. And don't say "maybe another time."

3) If she persists, then it may be time to be blunt, but not mean. Tell her your daughter and her daughter seem to have different personalities. If at all possible, find something positive to say (like you think it's great that her daughter can speak her mind, but your daughter is more quiet and that candidness is not her type of personality.)

I have worked w/ kids for over 9 years and also had to deal w/ bullies of my own kids. One thing I have learned is to never say something bad about someone else's child if you can help it...people are more likely to listen when you can be tactful, honest and not hurtful.

The whole thing is sad and I'm sure, while your daughter doesn't care for the girl, she still feels bad for her. Hope it all works out.

Many kids and adults with underdeveloped social skills do benefit from social training. Please have the mother check out Michelle Garcia Winner
Social Thinking, and maybe Asperger Syndrome.

My thoughts were right in line with Patty W. Just tell her your daughter makes her own plans, as well she should at that age with your approval.
Unfortunately, parents like her rarely get the message. If she continues to complain to you, just say you are sorry to hear that, but that is not your experience in those situations.

Oh my I almost posted a VERY similar question like this yesterday. My SIL is going through something like this with her 3rd grade son. Except the mom of the other child, who has no friends, cornered my nephew asking why he hasn't been playing with her son. My SIL was so mad!

I would tell her that you let your daughter make her own friends. She does not have to be friends with everyone, but she must be nice to everyone....and you really don't want to get involved. She probably get what your trying to say and leave you and your daughter alone. At least I hope so.

I don't think you should "make" your daughter be friends with this girl. And really since it doesn't seem like you care if this woman likes you or not, I think I would invite her out for coffee and just be honest. Tell her the reasons why her daughter does not have friends and if she gives you the "she has a strong personality" response, don't leave it at that. Tell her that that's the problem and that it might help if she talks to her daughter about being a big less pushy and respecting other people. The woman will probably be offended, but later on, after she's had time to calm down and think about it, I bet she has a talk with her daughter.

If it were me, I would just want to know that I did what I could to help the daughter.

I don't know if there is a way to suggest to the Mom that her child would benefit from a social skills group. If she would do this, maybe the therapist running the group could figure out if she had any disorder that would be helped by a psychiatric evaluation - ADHD or Asperger's. Good luck.