Help with Daughter That Will Not Listen.

You guys are all so nice! I have this problem from time to time, and I just refuse to get into a debate about it. I do a long, very caring night routine with books and lullabyes and tucking in. I will retuck each child to bed one time, but if they come out again I use a potable baby gate in their doorway and let them fuss for about 10-15 minutes. Then I'll go back and eithe tuck the kiddo back in or, if they have fallen asleep on the floor, carry them to bed. If on of them is being difficult on the way to bed I somtimes ask if they need the gate. Sometimes just talking about the consequences Is enough to get them to calm don and get serious about sleeping. Good luck!

The Supernanny trick of not talking to them and marching them back works but I had a situation where she thought that was a game too. I was tired of fighting with her so one night I completely ignored her. She came out of bed and I pretended like I didn't even see her. She sat there for a minute or two and I was as boring as possible (I read a book.) she then started doing things to get my attention and announcing "I'm out of bed!" I ignored that too. She tried to sit next to me but I ignored her. 20 minutes later she was asleep on the floor and I carried her to bed. The next night I had no problems. She just thought she was missing something and wanted attention. When I gave her neither she gave up. It was much easier to ignore her than to march her back to bed over and over! Just a suggestion. But you have to be boring when she comes out of the room.

I have found the "SuperNanny technique" of NOT talking or engaging them in any way, and repeated walking them back into their room. I don't know who told you to put her in timeout everytime she comes out of her room, however that sounds to me like it IS engaging her - giving her attention for not behaving...even if it is negative attention, she's ultimately getting what she wants. Your attention.

I have tried this "technique" myself and can say with absolute confidence it works.

When you put her to bed for the night, tell her as you tuck her in, "Good night. I love you. I'll see you in the morning." The first time she comes out of her room, don't yell, don't get worked up. Just get up, walk her back into her room. Tuck her in and say, "It's time to go to bed now. Goodnight." The second time she comes out of her room NO TALKING. Simply walk her back into her room. If she puts up a fuss/fight DO NOT TALK TO HER, just pick her up and take her back into her room. Do this over and over and over again...No talking, no consoling, no punishing, just put her in the bed and walk out. If she doesn't get your attention she WILL eventually give up. Keep doing this every night - don't change the process.

I am sorry I don't have a simple, quick answer. I think she's doing this just to get your attention and because she knows how to push your buttons.

After doing this technique, my children have learned, "Mom says goodnight and THAT'S IT." I have explained to my children that they get PLENTY of hugs and kisses during the day and that bedtime or after bedtime is not the time to be asking for more attention. (They are 6 and 4 now.)

We have a bedtime routine which helps eliminate the "attention" they need. They get their cups for their night tables, get changed, go pee, brush teeth and we read stories. They get hugs, kisses and tucked in. I say, "Good night. I love you. See you in the morning." Period. We're done.

I think the overall keys to having your kids listen to you are:

1) start young - which you already are
2) mean what you say - don't threaten, use logical consequences
3) use incentives for good behavior and logical consequences for bad.
4) incentives and consequences are immediate - not "when we get home" - embarrassment in front of friends, family, etc. is part of the deal. They act up, you deal with it immediately, even if it means leaving a grocery store cart full or leaving a playdate

You are going through a very stressful time right now. Give yourself a break. If you can create ANY "me" time, you'll be a better mom because you won't feel so stressed out and get frustrated so easily. Just try to remember that you are the adult - so if all else fails, give them a timeout and cool off before you react.

Let us know how it goes.

Sara

It sounds to me like your separation probably isn't helping things- any change in routine can provoke kids to act out!

But- that said, I think a LOT of kids that age just like to push limits and test you and getting out of bed over and over again is a very common way to do that.

You might also consider that with the separation, your daughter wants to be sure you're there- she may need some extra reassurance right now and playing this 'game' is her way of showing you that.

Just keep firmly and kindly putting her back. I wish I had a magic solution here, but really you just have to keep at it.

Also, is she still taking an afternoon nap? Try to get her to nap earlier in the day, so she isn't still feeling refreshed at bedtime.Make sure she has a small snack, like some banana a little while before bed, so she isn't hungry.
If she is tired, she will go to sleep!

Try a special bedtime ritual- a quiet bath, a special bedtime story, anything you can repeat over and over to show that it means bedtime.

My son was a real night-owl who would stay up all night if the grown-ups would let him! Some kids just take a while to get used to sleeping and yours are right at the age where they want to test you. Just hang in there!! Good luck!

Hi! One of your first and last sentences triggered a thought from me. I am a teacher and have 3 kids of my own, and a difficult 3 year old. When you said that you have recently separated from your kids' father, and near the end said you feel like your daughter thinks it is a game, I think your little ones may be confused and be trying to get more attention from you. This is probably going to make you more frustrated, because now you are on your own and have less time. You are already spending a lot of time with them probably, but they are trying to get ANY kind of increased focus from you, even if it is negative because they don't have that attention from the missing parent any more. If it is a game, I draw back on my training with difficult kids in the classroom and a little bit of Super Nanny and suggest you do not talk, whatsoever to them once you put them to bed and walk away. WHen she gets out of bed, don't make eye contact, don't say anything and calmly (I know it is hard) put her back into bed. Also, establishing a ritual might help. Like do three things in the same order EVERY night the three of you. I suggest reading a story of each of their choice, getting a drink of water, and brushing teeth. When you tuck them in do it so they can predict what will happen every time. If either start "playing" a game once you put them in bed, you should in your quiet way let them know you are not playing by not giving them any indication that you are engaging in the game.

I think that the children are affected by their dad not being there. And your daughter's misbehavior directly related. Have you tried talking to her or them about his absence. They may be trying to make sense of it all by themselves. And who knows what their little minds are coming up with. I would talk to your daughter about what she is feeling. Acting out is her way of trying to express something with the minimal skills that her 3 year old mind has to work with. What I've done with my daughter is to name her emotions when they are obvious to me. Like angry or frustrated, sad or upset, and of course all the positive ones too-- happy, surprised, excited, etc. I say to her, "I see that you're really upset right now. What happened?". In affirming their emotions this way, we are doing a couple of things for them. We are giving them the language to help them express themselves on their own (developing their emotional intelligence). I think that a lot of tantruming and acting out come from a lack of words to express what's really going on. They need us to give them the tools. The other thing that this does for them is to let them know that we are there for them. Many times that I have affirmed my daughters feelings to her while she was beginning to melt down or get really upset about something, it was like I had said some magic words to her. She would stop and come hug me and say, "yeah"--knowing that I was understanding her and I think this made her feel safe in knowing I was there to help her.

I would eliminate that time out for getting up during the night. I heard this explained in an interesting way. Think of our children as little people--afterall that's exactly what they are. If you were to go to a friend or a parent present day, upset about something-- somethings really bothering you. Maybe you go to them crying. Maybe you just go to them, not sure really how to express what's wrong, but reaching out nonetheless. And what if they send you off, saying, go over there in that other room until you're done! In a sense, this is what is being done in a lot of cases with time outs. There is definitely a message being sent to them when they communicate to us in the only way the know how, and we send them off with a sort of punishment.

If you haven't tried already, I'd talk to her about what's going on.

Hi J.,

You are not alone,I experience the same thing. I have two children, a boy and a girl and they seem to respond to my husband a little differently from me. However, I try to use different strategies with them. Like comforting them is good, but using incentives is really good. Reading stories and looking at programs about these kinds of issues can be really helpful. Also, taking them out to different places can help alot to along with getting them into extracurricular activities. Because in the long run if you have them involved in something they like then they will strive to do their best in everything to do that what thing they like.

Happy New Year and All the Best!

Hello! Sounds like you are having a hard time. My daughter is acting up too lately. It may be she just wants some attention. When I give my daughter more attention during the day, she acts better and stays in her bed at night. Good luck! You'll be fine! Give yourself a break, that helps too.

I dont know who suggested the time outs but I would ditch them asap. Time outs were originally invented as a pigeon training method and likely are counterproductive for children in stress.
Is your daughter getting out of bed because she wants to sleep with you? or is it that she doesn't want to go to bed? Ferber's book on sleep is very good on this topic. Also Jane Nielsen's "how to talk to your children so they will listen and listen so they will talk" is excellent. Both your children are likely quite stressed at present and may have some seperation anxiety as a parent has left them.

Something that works with my strong willed child, a small gift or going somewhere special. For example he will not pick up toys at all, his brother does it and he gets rewarded. My other son does not get the treat which causes him to help the next time. I've heard of people leaving coins outside their childs door and if they stay in bed they get them in the am. You could do something with $1 items or m&m's a special treat? Some moms don't bribe their kids, but sometimes it works. Just a thought. I do agree with the supernanny technique too. Good luck.

I think it will get easier as your situation stabilizes. There have been many changes in her life. I think that her behavior is reflecting her emotional state and she needs some emotional needs met before sleeping.

I found the book: 5 Love Languages of Children (http://www.5lovelanguages.com/) helpful in helping my son feel loved. If his emotional tank is full, I find bedtime easier (as well as making sure he goes to bed before he's extremely tired).

As you obviously know, consistency and firmness is important. You understand that it's important that children need to listen.

These challenges you're having with your daughter will pass as this season in life changes.

I personally think timeouts at bedtime gives your daughter too much attention to this situation. The first time she comes out, say nothing more than "It's bedtime sweetie". Next time, "It's bedtime". Everytime after that -- no words to be spoken. That's what Nanny Jo says anyway! As far as listening during the day..see if there is something that you can reward her with. My son is 3 1/2 & he has listening issues as most kids that age do. He LOVES to watch a movie on my iPod at bedtime. I have loaded some little einsteins / snoopy / wonder pets, etc 30 minute shows on my iPod for him. If he is having a hard time listening during the day, I will remind him what he stands to lose if he doesn't listen. Just the idea of losing the iPod is usually enough to change the behavior. Sometimes it doesn't work, and I've noticed that when he loses the iPod, his behavior deteriorates through the rest of the day, so then he will continue to lose toys / privellages for misbehavior, and sometimes just gets an early bedtime (I don't have a problem with him staying in bed). You could try something like this.

I'm sure she's sensing you are emotionally worn out, so she knows she can play you, especially at night. Don't let her take advantage of you. YOU are the mom, YOU are in charge, and she will listen to you! Otherwise, there are consequences. Figure out what makes her tick. Take all her toys away, ground her from a playdate...whatever is going to stick with her. If you get her in her place, your son's behavior will probably calm down, as he will no longer be following her lead. Good luck!

My daughter did this too! She is now 7 and has no problems, but my almost 3 yr old does this now. You are doing the right thing, but make sure that you do not talk to her when you put her back in her bed. Don't do the time out, because her goal is attention and being out of bed. Just walk her back in, say nothing, put her in the bed and walk out. I say the Our Father in between because my daughter has been at the 3 hour mark several times!!! Stay as calm as you can in front of her. This does work, but only if you are consistent! Same thing every night. With my 7 year old it took us about 2 weeks before it stuck for good. It seems like forever when it's 10 at night though.

I agree with Mom on the G O!! The Super Nanny technique works!! Just don't talk after putting back to bed the first time!! The first night might be rough but it will get better!! Good Luck!!
LoriW.
A SAHM of 4 kids ages almost 12, 10, 6 & 4

J., you are a mom not a drill seargent, you children are going through a big change in their lives just as you do. How about laying in bed with your daughter until she falls asleep? Your kids are both still young, I suspect they have same bedtime, so cuddle and wait for them to fall asleep, you will be free sooner and the kids will be happy. Young children need their mother to feel secure. Your daughter may not understand why you want her to stay in her room by herself (she sees only that you are separating yourself from her). Believe it or not, my 12 y/o son recently brought his blankets/pillows to our bedroom and wants to sleep there on the inflatable bed. I just let him, he is going to a new school this semester and if for some reason he wants to be a little closer - that is fine with me. The little guy already sleeping in his crib right next to our bed. Parenting is HARD WORK! Mothers work around the clock. I wish you luck. The more patient and reassuring you are with the children the more relaxed they will become. The more you push away the more clingy they will be. That is the general rule.

Time outs for this age should equal about 1-3 min, I use that time to remouve the child from whatever activity I find inapropriate, sit him with me, have a quick talk, exctract an apology and if the behavior changed let the child go.

Wish you all the best!

J., Get a babygate and put it across her doorway. She may lay at it and scream or kick her feet but eventually she will get the point that she needs to go to bed. Turn the lights in her room out. if it is a light fixture she can reach then unscrew the bulb. but turn out the lights in the room and the hall. we always left the bathroom light on but the door mostly closed. our son would get up and play and sometimes cry to come out. But it won't last long as long as you don't play into her game. turn your tv up and ignore it. listen so you know when it gets quiet and check to make sure things are ok but don't keep chasing her to put her back. then its her game not yours. good luck
S.