Refusing Time Out....

Well since you are the parent, it is up to you to show him he has no choice. There is no easy way. It doesn't matter if he gets up 30 times, you need to calmly put him back. Dont talk to him when you do. AND, his time should not start until he sits there without moving. If you give in, even once, you are showing him that he has a choice. It will not be a good thing for you if he thinks this! Stand firm and show him who is boss!!

I would just move him. He will get it that he cannot refuse, or you will do it for him, especially if you do it every time. Kids are so smart, they will try to see if they can get a foot in the door, and give all kinds of things a try, so if they don't see a glimmer of hope that it is worth while, they move on to the next challenge! I had one who got too big to move, so I would take out everything that would entertain (including me) and leave her to have her time out where she was. Keep plugging away, they really like to have limits and do not know what to do when they actually get a way with it!

M.

There is this psychological concept that says that random reward will guarantee the behavior FAR more certainly than consistent reward. As a case in point... if a professor SOMETIMES BUT NOT ALWAYS will toss out candy or an extra credit card for participating in class... she/he will get a LOT more participation as student vie/hope for the reward. Same token if SOMETIMES BUT NOT ALWAYS a child is given what they want when they throw a fit (candy in a store, more time with a game, whatever) it guarantees that they will continue to throw fits trying to get the reward.

It's ridiculously well studied and proven again and again and again across the life cycle from toddlers to octogenarians. (It's also a big reason why abused spouses tend to stay... because SOMETIMES they get the loving wonderful spouse... so they keep hoping for the reward).

The solution is to never, ever, ever provide the reward. (It's why such a BIG component of parenting is consistency, consistency, consistency. If they randomly get "rewarded" for bad behavior it encourages the bad behavior. They throw a fit, regardless of when/where/what it's about... and they don't get what they want. Each and every single time.

Refusing to go on timeout is throwing a fit about going on timeout. So off they go. Even if they have to be physically carried.

You are doing the right thing physically moving him, EVERYTIME.

The other option is to tell him "your choice, a 4 minute for time out if you go on your own or 4 minutes time out AND no TV (or whatever his activity that he likes) for the rest of the day if I have to carry you there." . Then do it.

I believe I answered before with a similar question about discipline and suggested several books - Between Parent and Child by Haim Ginot, How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk by Adele Faber, & Smart Love by Martha Piper that offer kind and respectful ways to resolve everyday conflicts with our children. I agree with them in that 'time out' is disrespectful, demeaning, belittling, and humiliating. Fear of punishment (or reward for accomplishment for that matter) does not teach a child to behave properly.

We use 'Time Out' pretty much as a medicine for everything and bitter the medicine quicker the results. Sure we can get the short-term 'outcome' we want with our forceful tactics because we have the role power and our kids are too young to compete with us and they have nowhere else to go. We raise the bar the more we see them becoming independent and raising their voice.

A 'time out' will not teach a child the long-term value of respect, kindness, and responsibility. We teach these values by modeling the behavior. The bottom line is to find the middle ground in a way that their needs and our needs are met. When we acknowledge and validate our kids' feelings and seek to understand them respectfully, then, they will do the same. Our display of power only makes them defiant or submissive. How many 'time outs' or other punishments should a child be given to get to that stage is up to us.

The best way to encourage and reinforce the desired behavior is to consistently give kids specific praise on their positive qualities. They would love to do more of it. We also need to be careful NOT to point out the negative at the same time with positive. The positive will lose its value and negative is already negative. Albert Einstein said that for every negative thing we say about our children, we must say at least ten or eleven positive things about them to neutralize the impact of negative on their self esteem. The research has shown that by the time our kids are eighteen, they hear at least 18, 000 negative statements about them. We can only imagine 198,000 positive statements we would have to think about to say to our kids! Here, I recommend another book title - Discover your child's learning style by Marriemma Willis (sp?).

An occasional 'time out ' to either separate ourselves or the child from the situation if the child is hitting or biting is the only situation I can think of, other situations should have logical consequences. For example, if child does not want to put on a jacket to go to park, just let him go without it. Just kindly say that I will take it with me in case you feel cold later. He will feel acknowledged and will get a logical consequence if feeling cold later. And that is when we should refrain from saying, 'I told you so' as again it is demeaning. :)

Please don't be so hard you self for trying to be an ideal parent and have your child be the good child in an attempt to 'please' our society. Your child will outgrow most of his immature behavior 'in time' but not with 'Time Out'. ;)

Best,
-Rachna

you should be walking him over there and placing him in time out anyway. if he gets up, you put him back. as many times as it takes for him to stay there. if you do this EVERY time he should get the message that this is non-negotiable. you don't have to physically hold him in place the entire time out. that's his responsibility. but you do give him the message loud and clear, that when you say he is in time out, he is IN time out. when he decides to take his consequence like a big boy and sit there for his time out, THEN you allow him to get up. if you don't believe in your own system, you will have holes in your process and he will know you don't mean it and no, it won't work.

I just read this question to my husband. He said, "I'd put my fingers up that kid's nose like a bowling ball and drag him to his room for the time out." I guess this is why we have never had our kids refuse a time out.

You can take him physically to the time-out spot, and that is a better alternative than letting him just refuse. As long as you are bigger than him and have more conviction, you can win by physical or emotional force.

BUT… consider carefully that discipline should never become a power struggle. As the child becomes bigger, stronger, more defiant, clever, or determined, the parent must become harsher, tougher, louder – or eventually lose. That is an antagonistic relationship, and not at all what we dreamed about when we wanted to have kids.

It does us well to be aware that kids lead incredibly frustrating lives, so acting out is inevitable, both because they desire what they can't have, and because they don't desire what they get way too much of. A young child's life is pretty constantly managed, and often abruptly manipulated, limited and controlled by parents and caretakers, schedules and circumstances. And of course, their experiences with self-control and alternative behavior choices are extremely limited, and mostly beyond their reach.

There is a sane and happy alternative to time-outs, which really just don't work for all children. It involves two main components: understanding what is driving your child, and finding more ways for him to say yes than to say no.

Your son is old enough for the two of you to explore the communication ideas in a terrific book by Faber and Mazlish, How to Talk So Kids Will Listen, and Listen So Kids Will Talk. (You can read part of this really practical guide to communicating with your kids here: http://www.amazon.com/How-Talk-Kids-Will-Listen/dp/038081...) Learn how to help your son communicate his feelings and needs, and participate in finding his own solutions. I use this approach with my 4yo grandson, and am often surprised and delighted with how brilliant and original kids can be.

He's testing you and your resolve. If you have to physically put him in time out. At his age you can up the punishments too by taking away favorite privileges or toys for not cooperating. My daughter also had to sit there, not move and not scream at me or I would reset the clock. Always be consistent and he will get that you mean business. Good luck.

I'd say "you did X, you broke the rules, time out" if he doesn't go there, place him there and IGNORE HIM. your the parent - he's 4. his is testing you. By refusing he is getting your attention (negative attention but still attention) and trying to gain power over you. if he keeps getting up place him back there and reset the timer. the important thing is that he needs to sit in time out for 4 minutes whenever he tries to get up, says mean things, etc you MUST give him NO attention (negative attention. talking to him, repeating "your in time out" is attention), you lead him back saying nothing.

more info on household rules, time out techniques http://www.supernanny.com/Advice/-/Supernanny-techniques/...

We use follow up consequences, such as, "If you don't do your timeout you will not get a snack (or bedtime story, or watch TV, etc.)" or "If you don't do your time out your truck (or whatever he's playing with) goes away for the rest of the day." It works well with our nearly 4-year-old who is strong-willed. Of course, consistency is important (but hard) too. Good luck!

When my children realize they have "physical power" to not go where I tell them to go, then I pick them up and put them there. They need to learn that whatever "physical power" they think they have, mine is greater. I'm not really so sure I believe in this "time-out" stuff. I would put him in his room and leave him there for a very significant amount of time so he gets the picture that he has to do what he's told, no matter how big he thinks he is. I do not stand for one minute of outright defiance and you should not either. Nip it in the bud now while he's young or you will be eternally sorry!

You can do a "time in" which is more caring. Take the time to talk to him about what he did. It is normal for him to show his will in this way, and forcing him to "time out" just models being forceful.

We still use time outs for attitude problems and take away priveledges like toys or TV for other discipline issues. our son is 5. Refusing to go to time out is non-negotiable - either he listens and obeys or his punishment gets worse - (toys get thrown out instead of taken away temporarily, trip cancelled etc) stick to your guns - sounds like you are backing down at the first sign of resistence - what are you gonna do when he's 14 and taller than you??

hi my daughter is almost three years old and i put my daughter in her bedroom and close the door for time-outs. i know supernanny says not to put a child in the bedroom but i find it easier than continously putting her back to a time out spot. and it also gives me time to calm down, then after two minutes i go in there and explain why she needed a time out and she will say sorry and kiss and hug.
my plan is when she gets older her punishment will be to go to her room and write an essay on what she did wrong and why it was wrong...
and she doesnt come out until its done..
im hoping this technique will help her start to think first before reacting rather than sit there and think how much she hates me, plus i hope it will help with her writing skills and do well in school with essays and maybe even become a writer.

Time outs never work for my daughter.. What I have done is take the toy or whatever it is that they might be playing with and put that in a time out. I also have rules written down so they know what will happen if they do something that was not appropriate.

We were having a simular problem so we changed our tatic after reading a book suggested by a friend. It's called "1-2-3 Magic ( effective discipline for children 2-12)" byThomas Phelan,Ph.D.
Basically when it comes to time outs you place them in their room or other "rest" spot ( we found that his room was best) and let them be. We did have to hold the door closed at first about the first 3- 4 times but he soon realized it was "HIS" place to take a breather. It's about no talking or SHOWING emotion. Which is Super Hard at times.
You might want to check it out. I really enjoyed finding a better way for "time outs" and discipline altogether.

I think you should continue to move him yourself. I do think that you should add on other consequences like no tv, etc. or that you should give him a choice in time out or something else. He needs a consequence and you have chosen time out as your preferred method of discipline, so stick to it. If you are mixing it up and adding other things in it really isn't fair. You take away the predictability of your behavior and kids need that. They need to know that if I break the rules "X" happens. If he gets up before his time is up, put him back and restart the time. Do it again and again and again until he does it himself.