Help with an "Out of Control" Playmate

Instead of play dates, I would offer to have the friends child over to play when the friend needs a break. That would allow you to control the situation and, perhaps, develop some appropriate play behavior in the friend's child.

Hi P.,
here's a new perspective...i'm the mom of a spirited child who often does things you described and its so hard for me. i would caution you against the advice that you should take matters in your hands. it makes me feel like people think i'm not disciplining. since shes your BF as you say, it sounds like she's aware of this problem. if so, she might be like me...at her wits end and embarassed/sensitive about it. i too am worried about my own children copying behaviors.

if this child is like mine, here are two suggestions i've come up with to limit outbursts and a third for you:
1. my sons threshold for a playdate is very short-like 45 min-1 hr. plan on a short date. and...go to a public place where you can say "looks like we may be upsetting _____, so we'll head out. we're hungry anyway. we can catch up on the phone later!" and you're free to easily escape.

2. Stay in very close proximity to the kids while they play, so hopefully she will too to try to thwart any altercations. I know with my son, I stay max 3 ft away anytime he's with other kids.

3. Don't make your friend feel bad about it-it feels so bad when your child does these things as it is, and it makes you feel worse as a mommy when you know your friends are rejecting you for reasons that feel out of your control. Worst case, you could suggest playing while the older kids are at school (assuming both go to school and that she has a younger one too).

Hope this perspective helps!

Hello P.,
This is very hard position you are in no doubt. I can tell you from experice that your child will start to get confused about proper behavior. If your BF will let you correct her child that my help, but then the responsibility is put on you as opposed to her.

I would limit the time of play date. When I was in this situation I spoke with my friend about my concerns. she was hurt but my child is more important than our friendship. Her child would hit and not share and yell often. I loved her dearly and did not want to hurt her but I needed my son to be around postive people. Your child is most important!!

We deal with now even though my child is 8, not with my BF but a mom keeps asking me to have my son and hers go to park and I always come up with reason for no. I do not know her well enough to tell her my concerns.

Your friend probably knows it is an issue. You need to tell her how it makes you feel and your conern for you child.

This situation will not get any better unless your friend takes parenting classes. I also HIGHLY recommend LOVE AND LOGIC classes!! loveandlogic.com

And my favorite book was "How to Talk so Kids will Listen, and Listen so Kids will Talk." Buy her a copy!

When my kids were babies, we also had a couple of different friends (couples) whose children misbehaved whenever we were visiting at their home. At age 3, it was hitting and biting. By age 6, one boy poured BOILING water on our son's foot. It was NOT an accident, because the boy had to go in the kitchen, fill the sauce pot with water, put it on the stove, and carry it outside to the backyard fort - - while we parents were chatting & visiting out by the backyard pool.

It DOES NOT get better, unless the parents learn that their cute "spirited" kid is getting away with small stuff now, but later their misbehavior won't be so cute and could be quite dangerous.

Do you feel comfortable just taking charge of the situation? It wouldn't be like you're telling her what to do, but you are SHOWING her what to do - and how. Nothing mean; just some very firm, clear direction to the child about what is and is not acceptable behavior. Throw in a time out and see what happens. You really don't have much to lose at this point, and a lot to gain! I think some parents just struggle with knowing how to set limits and enforce them (and I can hear my own friends laughing a little - I struggle with this myself somewhat!). It's a very uncomfortable situation, but rather than just hurt her feelings by cutting off the playdates, I would give intervention a try first. Good luck - it's always easier said than done! :)

This is definitely a sticky situation. If she is truly your BF then I think this is how I might approach her. Acknowledge what a difficult time she's going through. What a good mom she is and how hard she's working to raise a "spirited child" Then start talking about how you've noticed that when the kids are playing together you've started to see your little boy has started to act out. Ask her what she thinks. That you want the boys to be able to play together but you're concerned that your son is starting to misbehave. I think that taking away playdates would do more harm than good. It sounds like her son needs some consistency. All of the behaviors that he is exhibiting are those of stress. Sure some of it could be just a bratty kid but alot of times when parents are going through stressful times the kids act out because they don't know how else to communicate how they're feeling. I guess what I'm trying to say is that just very lovingly tell your BF the truth about your fears and see if you can't come up with a solution together.

Wow! I have been in your exact situation. I finally told my friend that our children can no longer play together after her son pushed him backwards off the top of some playground equipment. My feeling was that my son was going to take priority over keeping a friendship. Honestly, I lost that friend, but my son's behavior improved immediately, and we found other friends. Life goes on. It was one of the hardest decisions I have made as a parent, but turned out to be the right one for us. For me, I waited until I blew my top with her, stifling what I knew would eventually become too big a problem to handle, until the day that I couldn't watch my son be bullied another day. My only regret is that I didn't end it sooner, before I blew my top. I wish I had handled it more delicately. I still believe that I would have lost the friend no matter how I had handled it. I wish you luck, in preserving your friendship while still being a loving parent to your child.

Suggest a book study (Love and Logic!) that can help both of you raise boys that are thinkers and aware of natural consequences. If she sees the same behaviors from your son (she won't see it as copying), I don't think she will fill picked on as a bad parent. Three is a very hard age! Love and Logic has a book for toddlers and advice both you and your friend can use. As a teacher I can tell you school will not think his behavior "spirited" or acceptable. She needs your help and now!

www.loveandlogic.com

P.,

You might try suggesting a the two of you take a parenting class together. You can mention that you think it would help both of you in your parenting of your own kids, as well as managing other children. You could even share childcare and go together. It would help if the fathers attend as well.

We really liked the Love and Logic approach. www.loveandlogic.com. Our school district sent someone to our neighborhood to do this FOR FREE and even offered FREE CHILDCARE!! What could be easier or better. We had a group of parents from the neighborhood.

Good luck.

I would not cut the play dates suddenly. Take the gradual approach. Start slowing the amount of play dates, and change them up by switching location etc... Before the end of the summer you should be set to stop them. Try to make plans with your BF, just the two of you, so she doesn't feel like you do not care about her. Although constant exposure may rub off on your child, once a month (after summertime) won't change the values he learns from you.

If she doesn't stay for playdates, ask her how she would like you to handle any discipline problems. Also don't leave them alone, stay with them. Outbursts are less likely to happen while an adult is in the room.

I suggest not having play dates but picking something that puts both boys in a different situations. Try swimming lessons, going to the park or zoo or out to lunch. Avoid the playing together at each other's houses and tell your friend just what you want to suggest trying with the two boys. It sounds like your friendship with the BF is just what you both need and I would want to preserve that at all costs. If you just avoid her then you can say good-by to the friendship. Imagine how she would feel if everyone backed out of playdates because of her son's behavior. Your support for her, and her's for you is of utmost importance.

Dear P.,
I can feel your pain. If I am correctly reading between the lines, I'm guessing that you and your friend really need together time, and so if you say something to hurt the relationship you will be protecting your son but hurting yourself. And I can only assume that if her son is 3 also that his behavior has already gotten its roots into that child's head and it will be hard to break some of his habits. I had a friend exactly like this: she had an out-of-control child, and she knew it, and all of us (her friends) didn't want to hurt her feelings, but finally when her child was hitting and hurting babies at the play group (this is where I used to live) we stepped in and told her she had to get her child under control before she brought the child back to playgroup. She was offended, and dropped out for a while. It was tough and we tried to reach out to her. She was very depressed and felt very isolated. My reason for telling you this is that you understand that YES you may hurt her feelings and YES she may be upset. However if you tell her what she needs to hear in a loving way and a non-accusatory way, you cannot control her feelings. Sometimes as moms we have to do tough things that benefit our kids but the outcome really sucks for us. I'd say that your child is more important and if this friend doesn't understand that, then you may be better off finding a new best friend (I know that sounds harsh but really, it is true. It may be very sad for you but you have to live with your son forever, not your BF.) And if your friend knows that her son needs to be under better control but has never done anything about it, this may be the thing to open her eyes and make her get serious about it. Tell her that you love her and her son, but that your son's safety is more important, and that you're sure she feels the same way about her own son. Help her to understand that this is a SAFETY issue, not a friendship issue. I hope this helps some. Good luck.

Real friends don't allow their kids to go on the way your BF is allowing. I never allow my son to even say mean things to others much less hit and teach bad behavior. If it was me I would buy a wooden spoon and put a pretty bow on it and leave it at her house. My other friends ask to use mine when they are at my house (always in love).

P.,

Oh my. I really disagree with a lot of the advice you got (to be honest with your BF and confront her). I say, "No, do NOT confront her if you want to stay friends with her." If she truly is your BF and you love her dearly, then it would be a shame to lose her as a friend (although it would be nice if she wasn't so clueless about her "spirited" son). There is no need to be honest in this situation. Unless she has extremely thick skin, she will be very hurt and offended if you tell her the truth. Sometimes honesty is not the best policy. My advice is (and as some people have already said) this: don't do anymore playdates in either of your homes - meet at a park or library or somewhere. However, I realize it is hard & a bit unrealistic to always meet at a public place. So, if you must be in one of your homes for playdates, definately be in the same room with the boys. When her son rough-houses yours, hopefully she will notice and do something about it. If she doesn't notice, then bring it to her attention. Or say to her son, "Johnny (or whatever your son's name is) doesn't like to be hit," and hopefully your friend will take a hint. Also, decrease their playdates. Here are some excuses: 1) I don't feel well. 2) Johnny has a doctor appt., 3) I have so much going on these days (so many errands to do). Stuff like that. If you run out of excuses and your BF demands a playdate, here is one more (that will get her to lay off for a while). You tell her that Johnny has been misbehaving at home, and you are punishing him by taking away his playdates for a while. I like that excuse the best (just thought of that)! Keep asking her for plans, just the two of you, so she won't think you're trying to blow her off. Again, you wouldn't be in this unfortunate sticky situation if she would discipline her son the way she should. Too bad she doesn't notice her son's inappropriate behavior and take charge. She seems very blazay (sp?) about this, if she even realizes any of it. Again, if you want to keep her as a friend, then lie. If you don't care too much about losing her friendship and her pasive parenting ways, then go ahead and confront her (although I would still lie - I HATE confrontataions). Good luck!

I have many friends that I also thought their kids were more "spirited/strong-willed" than mine...what I do is ask my friend if it's okay if I discipline their kids while or when I discipline mine and to have them tell me if they don't agree with my disciplining. Most of them say "go ahead" because sometimes it makes it easier for them....and most of the time, kids listen to other people more than they will listen to their parents (including mine). Then you have to think about the ages - 3 year olds don't know how to share so this is critical in teaching taking turns - sometimes I get a timer out and set it for 3-5 minutes and when the timer goes off its his turn. Hope this helps! You definately don't want to lose a friend, esp. a best friend, and it would be awesome if your kids became best friends too - keep trying - she sounds like she needs you right now! God bless!

Do you have playdates when your BF doesn't come along? Sometimes children are completely different when mommie is around. If you do not have playdates without BF you might try a short one. When playmate arrives set some ground rules. You must establish who is in control and what their boundries are . What will happen if the rules are broken and explain that you really enjoy them playing together but you are planning a special playdate and you want them to show you they can share and have a good time together and it is fun for everyone . ( try a trip to the zoo or somewhere to look at fish Kids really love that )example: There is garden ridge mall that has a chinese fish store which is fun to look and also petsmart both free and afterwards you could take them to get fruit at the store . Remember they have to be ready for an outing But so do you and since you are in control you say when they are ready.
I know this sounds like a lot for small children but they really do understand more than you think!
Your BF can or cannot know but you might video them and show her how her child behaves when she isn't there. This will give her an expectation which she doesn't know she needs . She is only guilty of loving her child to the point of weekness and doesn't realize that it is possibly harming her childs future. Good luck I Hope you get many responses that are helpful.
Have a great day!

This sounds a little out there but as a mom of a difficult child, I know how isolating it is when all your friends quit wanting to be around you because of your child. One suggestion I have is to maybe get a play therapist to come over for one or 2 play therapy sessions and give you ideas and help you teach the kids how to play together. it will help your best friend as well because it would prove your dedication to the relationship and possibly save your relationship in addition, your friend will get much needed tips on behavior modification for her kid. it would be worth the money to save your friendship!

A. J

I am in the EXACT same situation, & I have now finally seen my son copy those behaviors. My DH even mentioned something about it, & he doesn't want my son playing with the other child.

My best advice is to either accept it or don't play with them. I am going playdate by playdate. If a playdate is bad, then I don't see them for awhile. I've been on 2 playdates with them, & they've been pretty good. But once we have a bad one, then I'm done for awhile. I refuse to let my son be punched & slapped just because I'm friends with his mom. Good luck to you!

Maybe a complete stopping of the playdates is not required. If the BF's son starts to act in a undesirable way and your son starts to mimick him, show your son that the behavior will never get him anything but trouble by punishing him more harshly than maybe the other boy is being punished. Make your son see that YOU will not tolerate bad behavior from him and he won't see the other boy's behavior as something worthy of mimicking anymore. You can't tell your friend how to raise her child but you can raise yours to be respectful.

I say this because you want your child to know later in life that he needs to be careful about who he chooses for friends. If you simply cut off interaction with certain children because they may behavior in a way you don't want your chidl to act, you aren't teaching them to chose good friends for himself.

Just like my friend's son, his mom was a single mother who often left her son with his grandmother while she was at work. His cousins were about the only other children he interacted with and he began to pick up their bad behavior which was only enforced by his grandmothers "He would never do something like that" attitude. It got bad quick and before long he was in school and beating up other kids. It wasn't until his new step father came along and started to get after him for mimicking his cousin's bad behavior did he stop beating up other kids and is now a good student with many friends that have good behavior.

Not telling you how to raise your child, just some advice based on what I have seen before. :)

I would suggest you don't have playdates in the home. Try lunch out or storytime at Barnes and Nobble or the Trinity train. This way you don't put your son in the position of being pushed around. If this behavior happens again I would talk to your son about what is happening and let him know that this kind of behavior is not nice and not acceptable. He will see the disapointment in your face and know that he should never do this with his friends.
Don't run away from this...learn and teach him now because bullies will always be around.

If she is your real friend she will understand. You can still help her by giving her a break, taking the child out etc. Just not with your own son around. I would also help her learn to discipline.
It may be time that she needs help, it just won't come from you. She should also realize that friendships are two way streets, that if she can't be your friend because she is overwhelmed then she should at least not fault some lost playdates.
If she doesn't get a hold on her own son, it will be to late.
I think you phrased it well in your question. "I don't want to hurt your feelings or offend you. I know that you are going through alot, but your sons behavior has escalated and I no longer want to have the kids together for playing. But would really like to remain friends. I would not be a good friend if I didn't tell you how I feel. I also would not be a good friend without offering some kind of help and support in you and your sons time of need. But it just can't be with the kids around. I know he is spirited but he may need some help and discipline that I can't provide. Or that you need help in getting, and I am all for helping you. What do you think? How can we get this worked out?"
She may be defensive and she may indeed end the friendship, but at least you will have done everything that you could do to save it. You may also re-connect later in a year or so.
Frindships are an evolving thing. And many are outgrown. It may be time for both of you to move on to others that meet your needs better. There is no shame or harm in that. Only if you two are not honest with each other.
If it were me and my children were having problems, I would be upset if my friend DIDN'T clue me in. But stopped the friendship without telling me. That would hurt me more. But people are funny. Has she been open to problems or criticisms in the past? Or has she relished your honest opinion from love and concern? or been defensive and hurt?
That is more of a judge than anything.
I hope that you can salvage something from this friendship or at least the knowledge about when to let go.
Good luck,
L.