Finding Patience and Wanting a Bigger Family

My temperment for my 20 month old is great.. My temperment for my 4.5 year old.. not so great.

I could and would have 5 kids with the temperment of my youngest. I would hang myself if I had another one like my 4.5 year old.

Some of it is the temperment of the kids/family.

Good luck.

I agree that having more kids doesn't make you more patient. I do think that you need to control your kids better. However, the yelling just makes them act crazier, C.. You need to stop the yelling - they are totally desensitized to it. You need to childproof your house - no wooden boards around for them to play with. And you need to supervise them more.

A daycare has a strict schedule for the kids. They have toys that are played with and then put away. They eat at the same time every day and they have to go down for naps after playing outside in the afternoon. You should institute the same kind of strict schedule for your kids. That means instituting a strict schedule for you. In the morning, get up before the kids. Make your bed and get dressed for the day. While they are eating breakfast, throw a load of clothes in the washer. Have them bring you their dishes and "help" you clean up the kitchen. Put a little art project on the table while you finish up, and then go to the next thing, whether it's trains or puzzles. Don't let them start another toy set without putting up the first one. Play MUSIC on the CD player (NOT the TV) while they are playing.

If they start fighting over a toy, put the toy in time out. And MEAN it. No giving back a toy you took away. IGNORE them wanting the Goodwill toys - I really mean it. While they are playing in a room, use the time to dust that room and put anything that doesn't belong in a basket or box to be carried around to other rooms later on. When it's time to clean up to transition to the next activity, get them to help you vacuum the floor. They will love that. Move to the next room you need to clean and give them a new set of toys to play with.

Make reading books part of your day several times. Get them outside to play - maybe when you need to do some paperwork that you can take with you. They should NEVER be alone with the dog. EVER. The dog experts will tell you that - not just other moms. If one of them is taking the dog collar off and putting it around the other child's throat, that means you aren't supervising properly. This is a safety issue and you just have to do it, even if you think you can trust the dog.

Put the kids down every day for quiet time, even if they don't sleep. Hopefully they have separate rooms.

When they do stuff that is off limits, they need a swift and firm consequence. Make the consequence fit the crime. ALWAYS separate them if they fight, no matter who started it. If you are consistent about it, they will get tired of being separated and they will police each other to not fight. It is your job to keep them in the area of the house that you want them to be in - they should not have cart blanche in having the run of the house. Keep doors locked if you need to. More than anything, tell them what they are supposed to be doing. Without the yelling.

If you are calmer, it will be easier for them to be calmer. When they are immersed in an activity you have started with them, it's easier to run into the laundry room and get the clothes out of the washer and throw them into the dryer. Have what you need to take upstairs in a basket ready to take up with you when you bring your kids upstairs so that you aren't running back and forth and not supervising them.

It gets easier when you put them in preschool or kinder. Right now, treat your home like a daycare and supervise with a strict schedule. And NO YELLING.

You can do this. I promise you that it will get better if you do.

Dawn

Not speaking from personal experience. I have one sib, and have one child. I think those with bigger families have a lot of structure in place, and a lot of discipline instilled early. They have to have a goodly amount of rules and order, and they have to have a goodly amount of responsibility/ independence from the kids otherwise they just couldn't function.

I see large religious families of different backgrounds near us at the playground. Some are catholic from eastern europe, others are orthodox jewish, some are muslim from the middle east, africa or southeast asia. These families all have 5+ kids in tow. All well dressed and well presented, all walking nicely down the street, all being rather agreeable about leaving the playground.

Then you've got me, and my two year old singleton, on a harness, sometimes nearly running into the street, when he excitedly chases pigeons.

Good luck to you and yours,
F. B.

Get a hold of what you have, let at least one go to kindergarten and then think about another!
Ideas to help at home: Pretend you are a preschool teacher for a while.
You have a whole class of 3 and 4 yr olds in your home. childproof accordingly. Make a schedule that includes physical exercise, fine motor, story time, rest time, snack time, time with Mom time without, time together , time apart.
Post a very short list of very simple rules and add pictures to represent:
Kind hands running outside, walking inside, kind words
give them stars for following the rules. Quick, quiet time out for breaking rules (no discussion, no lecture, no attention, you've already posted the rules just point to the one they broke,
Have a chart for AM duties: 1) get dressed, 2) brush teeth, 3) again no discussion just a star when done
We resort to yelling when we try to explain over and over and they keep breaking the rules, when we ask them to do something over and over and over. They don't care if it hurts are feelings, makes us all late for craft time, keeps little one from sleeping, keeps mommy from cooking whatever. Don't explain(until much older), don't bargain, don't ask, don't expect logical adult thinking!
Give choices all day long, TWO choices only and both choices YOU will be happy with. Fine motor time is puzzles or beads? brush teeth with yellow toothbrush or red? milk in Green cup or blue? red Tshirt or Yellow?
Keep them busy deciding and they will forget to whine they dont want to brush teeth, drink milk or get dressed.
Have you read Happiest Toddler on the Block (goes up to age 4.5)
1,2,3 Magic. that's where my ideas come from :)

C.,
You can change if you want to and you keep striving toward a goal. Now listen, I am not "laid back", I am super prone to anxiety, have a history of panic attacks, and am very much a type A, organized, structured sort of person. However, when it comes to the kiddos, I rarely yell (anymore) and things run more or less smoothly. We DO have a peaceful home where the kids are pretty respectful of each other and our possessions. We have very few behavior issues. What I would like to tell you is that this was a learning process. A lot of it, I learned just from reading posts on Mamapedia and learning how other parents do it. I also came from a home where my parents were constantly yelling, and I tell you, no matter how good of parents they were/are in other ways, I was "planning my escape" from the time I was 12. It was such a relief to get away from the yelling, and I try to remember that with my kids.
Here are some of the things I have learned over the years that may help:
-You need to childproof better. When I had a 2 and 4 year old, it was HORRIBLE. I mean, we had a 6 month stretch that was similar to what you are describing. My husband and I felt like crying all the time, we were both so frustrated. The kids were into everything and ruined everything. Looking back, we are kindof like "duh", we needed to childproof better and supervise better. We were expecting too much responsibility from 2 little toddlers who were in cahoots. We should have put a lock on the fridge and the cabinets. We should have been emptying out glasses of soda at night so the kids wouldn't sneak up in the morning and chug the leftovers (just finding that out years later...no wonder they were causing such havoc, all jumped up on mountain dew). My husband should have been playing with them instead of on the xbox.
-If you feel like you are going to yell, take a deep breath and count to 5 (or 10!). It is ok to put yourself in time out if needed and go sit in the bathroom until you feel calm enough. If needed, take the offending toy/board/whatever away from kid (calmly), put it up, and lead the kids to their room and shut the door. It is ok to take time to gather yourself together and then you will be more able to discipline effectively.
-Schedules. Everyone, especially kids, thrive when they know what is going to happen next. It gives comfort. Big families especially need a schedule.
Good luck. I know you can overcome the yelling and with time you will feel more patient all around.

A large family and patience do not go hand and hand. You don't need a lot of patience for a large family but you do need to be realistic in your expectations.

Currently as I write my 11 year old has the 6 year old in a headlock. My 3 year old is demanding that the 21 year old push her around on her tricycle. The 8 year is being quite, but normally she's doing something to make one of the other kids mad.

Chaos, that's what a big family is, sometimes organized chaos, others times a complete free for all. A structure does help to some degree, but let's face it, kids are kids, and some days even the best of intentions go out the window.

Large families need to be flexible...and structured. Yeah, I know how is that? A structure is nice when it comes to certain things. Who does what chores, when chores are done, and what time you will eat breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Flexibility comes in when things aren't going the way you want them to, and accepting that is just they way it is going to be for that day. There's always tomorrow to try again.

Mira also hit on part of it. Kids will always be kids, and sometimes the best course of action is to not leave things where they can reach them. If you don't want them doing/playing with XY and Z then you need to make sure that those things are out of sight and out of mind.

What is that saying "an ounce of prevention keeps the doctor away?". Well an ounce of prevention will keep the momma sane.

I'm not going to comment on your wanting a bigger family, since that's not something I want personally, so no useful experience to offer there.

BUT, it does sound like your expectations for your kids might be a little out of line with their ages. If you've got wooden boards and boxes of old toys around, 3 and 4 year olds are going to appropriate them. They're not being bad, they're just being preschoolers.

If you can swing it, you might get a sitter for a day and re-childproof. Bring your home up to the safety standards of a preschool. If you find yourself calmer then, then maybe you'll be ready for one or two more.

I guess I qualify as one with big family experience...my mom is one of 4, my dad is one of 7, I am one of 5 and I have 4. I don't know that I would have had the patience to be a SAHM when the kids were younger, especially to 4 kids. My mom was a complete lunatic, but 5 kids born in 6 years would probably get to even the best of us. One of my kids is very high maintenance, one has a very dominant and obnoxious personality and the other two are pretty easy and pleasant. So a lot depends on the personalities of the kids.

Anyway...I don't think that patience comes with more kids. Acquiescence does. I mean that in a good way...you just learn that you can't please everyone all the time, that someone almost always has to wait, that the house won't be spotless, that you can't do everything you want, etc. You have to be able to manage chaos. You have to be ridiculously organized. You have to be incredibly productive and manage on less sleep than most people get.

It does get more demanding when they get older. It's not the same kind of demanding as having little ones who physically need you all day and all night (to be fed, held, changed, blow their noses, wipe their bottoms, pour their cereal and milk, help them get dressed, tie their shoes, etc.) but it's more of a logisitical nightmare. How do you get one kid to hockey, another to karate, another to lacrosse, and another to a school function all in the same 2 hour window when your husband is taking a class and you are teaching a class all on the same night? There are days when I do 100 miles of driving in my town (my town is only 6 miles across) because of all of the dropping off and picking up. My kids go to three different schools. They have a combined total of 16 teachers in school, 3 Sunday school teachers (one has me) and 12 coaches in their various sports - you have to know who all those people are! And the friends! You have to know who all of them and their parents are as well. I literally have to do a mental contact search before going to an event to remind myself of which kid this is for, who his friends are and what their parents' names are. And these are people who I see all the time!

As they get older some things definitely get easier - you don't have to have eyes on them literally all the time. They can make their own snacks, dress themselves, and amuse themselves. But that's true of all kids so with smaller families, you get to this lovely point of self-sufficience earlier and enjoy it sooner.

I can't imagine having grown up in a smaller family and having a smaller family, but it's all I know. Time is stretched, resources are thin, there are a lot of comforts we do without. More kids means more demands on your time, your body, your wallet, and your sanity and managing a lot of them takes patience and organization. It's fun but not everyone's cup of tea.

Having more children gives you more opportunities to practice patience. But it won't automatically make you a more patient parent.

Whether you have 1 or many children, it's worth the trouble to learn to be more laid back/cool/patient. Unfortunately, I didn't do this with my older 2 girls. The results were not good. Thankfully, I did a reality check while raising my 2 younger boys and really worked at changing the way I interact with them. It took enormous effort and I'm still in progress but my relationship with my boys is good, sweet and worth it.

It's never too late to change. If you'd love to be the laid back, cool-headed mom, then start now to learn those skills. Read parenting books, take classes, see a therapist. Then practice on your kids. You will have many opportunities to practice being patient when you don't feel like it! And your newly learned responses will become habits. Even better, they will start to rub off on your kids as they model your behavior. Who knows, maybe you'll find you have the patience to take on a couple more kids and enjoy them all in the process.

Look hard and honest at your reasons for wanting a big family. Make a list of why you want more kids.
Does it make sense? Is it for the right reasons?

I think there's a widespread idealization of large families out there. Some parents are cut out for it, some are not. Some are not cut out for it and do it anyway. Do you think it's fair to you, your kids and husband, to add another kid, more stress and anxiety to what already sounds like a very full and frazzled plate? Going off of what I see in society, most large families I see contain parents that seem unhappy, zoned out, not present, with kids that run amok. I rarely see the "with it" large family, honestly.

Would I love more kids? In my dream world I am "that" mom who cooks and bakes and keeps a perfect home and has toned abs. In the real world, I am impatient, like my quiet/down time and having only one suits me.

I think that it sounds like you need to rethink your organizing skills. You got frustrated because you had stuff boxed up and the kids got in them. Why were they where the kids could get in them? You could have put them in the garage or in the trunk or a closet out of sight. Then they wouldn't have found them to get in to. A wood board should not be in their reach. There is a lot in this post that says you didn't finish what you started and the kids came along and got in it.

So I encourage you to make a plan. Organize your tasks so that you will have plenty of time to get it done and put up BEFORE the kids come.

I guess I am assuming the go someplace during the day, you said you came home. I think it would be a good idea for you to make a plan on how you want to get a task done. Then see how closely you follow it.

I found that I got distracted numerous times when doing a task. I have to stop doing anything else and just plan on being on that one thing until it's done.

If the living room is off limits to the kids then shut the door or put up a gate so they can't get in there. If the board was what was off limits then why was it in their play space? That's a danger to them so you need to realize they are going to play with it, especially if it's off limits, that makes it more fun.

Taking time to walk through the house before the kids come home sounds like a good idea. That way you can put up the things that the kids should not have access to.

Plus, the big kid is old enough to know that they are NOT supposed to wrap anything around their little brother or sister's neck, ever, ever, ever.

I wanted a bigger family too but realized I'm not really cut out for it. And I don't regret it. There's so much to do just for my 2 even with them older now that I'm fine worrying only about them. I think aside from patience, it'd help not to be a huge worrier if you have lots of kids. I'd make sure you want more kids bc you really enjoy them. I tend to only want more kids when I see a Christmas card of a big family and think how nice it looks...

I have 3 children and yes it's hard. My two oldest girls are in school and now I have more time for just me and my baby boy. But now it's hard for me to have one on one time with my girls. I find myself always feeling bad for one or the other. The "big family" theme is a beautiful one but I'm so done. Maybe at least when your older one starts school. I know it's hard to take care of little ones and cook and clean and do laundry and wash dishes and remember to pay this or that and it's like sometimes you really don't even want to go grocery shopping. It does get better but I say wait a little longer if you can! Good luck mommy!

You sounds exactly like me. I would love to have a third baby but I spend all day screaming at the two kids I already have. I'm short tempered, frustrated, and exhausted. The housework doesn't get done as much as I wish it did and I don't always cook dinner because I'm so grumpy. The fighting drives me up the wall.

My kids are almost 6 and almost 2.5 (boy and girl). I take antidepressants but I still have such a short fuse and don't know what to do. I am just not laid back.

Anyway, this may not be the answer you want, but I decided not to have the third, even though I want it. I can't imagine going through it all again - another infant, another toddler, etc - and I don't think it's healthy or fair to the family since I'm struggling to get by as it is.

I do feel sad about it. I wish things were different and I wish I had a better attitude. I just haven't figured out yet how to change it, so the family is staying as is.

You DO work - you work at home. People who work outside the home get a built in break away from their kids, and a built in break away from their work. Moms who stay home are "on the job" 24/7. It is HARD!!! I am feeling the brunt of it myself. We only have one son and I would like to have at least one more but with staying home and babysitting some kids part time, I find myself pretty thin and not much left for any future babies that might happen. Should we find ourselves pregnant any time soon, something will have to give.

If you think about it, if you would have another baby, your oldest will be in Kindergarten soon and will be in school all day during the week. That might make a difference. And pretty soon, your 3 year old will be in school.

I feel your "pain" :-)

In short, no. More patience does not come with more kids. My husband and I both have less patience with all of our kids now. It's kind of hard when you become outnumbered. The three year old is always underfoot when we're trying to do things like homework with the older two.

I'm glad I have three, and wouldn't change it for the world, but easy it's not. Especially with the temperaments my oldest and youngest have.

The preschool/infant years are the most labor-intense. Ever notice that many big families have the kids spread out...kids ranging from 3 to 12? Closely spaced kids are hard to deal with. My daughters are 3.5 years apart and that is easier. Forget the people who are saying you should be organized - don't consider a third until the first is in Kindergarten. I was also thinking that having lots of kids entails a certain amount of chaos - are you comfortable with that? The reason I ask is that I noticed your comment about getting rid of toys. When my kids were little I felt that I was always culling toys. In retrospect I realize it was my way of gaining control over the chaos of clutter. Looking back I wish I hadn't been to aggressive in getting rid of toys. We have almost none of their baby/toddler toys. But we had a small house and it helped me feel in control of the chaos. Can you handle chaos or does it bother you?

I'm 50 and I would love to expand our family through adoption but in my heart I know it would not be best for our family. I'd love more kids but the fantasy and reality are not a match for us. Good-luck.

aw love your way because I feel you. I thought I was done at one, there is almost 15 years between my 1st & 2nd but only 18 months between my 2nd & 3rd. I don't know how people do it-especially SAHM. I do see the light at the end of the tunnel so maybe just wait a little longer and see if the urge goes away.

Go to flylady.net. Use her organizational suggestions to help you have a daily "plan." Part of what is most difficult about being "at home" all day is the lack of structure imposed by anyone from the outside. You have to make your own structure. If you do these things, you will enjoy your current family situation so much more.

I totally agree with the poster who said that there is an idealization of large families. No one ever talks about the extra costs -- multiple tuitions for gymnastics, karate, college, etc. The forgone vacations, because while 3 or 4 plane tix might be doable, 5 or 6 is just cost prohibitive. Also, the logistics are very tricky. I'm always wishing I had a clone to pick one up on one side of town at the same time that another needs to be miles away. I love my kids, but I was an only child and I certainly benefited from all that one-on-one adult attention.

Good luck with your decision!