Ex-husband Bad Mouthing via Emails

My children report everything back to dad as well and I hate that they can call and report every little thing or show pics of where we are. There's just no privacy anymore. you are smart to keep their passwords. I wish I would have done that. There is no way they would give them to me and they would create new accounts anyways. My ex down talks me all the time and that is why my children have 0 respect for me. that is why it is so hard to get them back into their normal routine when they are at my house. For some reason they take his side and he is the most controlling jerk I have ever met. I wish I would have listened to my parents!

Oh boy.
I would save those e-mails. I would talk about them in therapy.
Let me tell you something, even the best of kids can try to manipulate their parents. Especially if the parents are divorced. Especially if the parents are remarried.
My husband's ex was so horrible to me. Now, keep in mind that they had been divorced 12 years when I came along. TWELVE YEARS.
My step son? Hmmmm. He had to be the most manipulative kid I ever came across in my entire life. "Mom won't buy me this. Mom won't let me have that". Well, my husband ate it up and gave the kid every single thing he wanted. I don't care what it was or how expensive. Or....even dangerous.
When he was 15, I caught him in our home office going through our desk and all our papers. He had our checkbook out. He was on the phone with his mom telling her EVERYTHING from how much we wrote a check for our house payment to how much we wrote a check for at the grocery store, what our bank statement balances were.
First of all, finances are NO kid's business. Especially if they are going to blab like that. What really got me was that he wasn't telling the truth about the amounts. He told her our water bill was 3 times what it was. Doubled our mortgage payment.
I told him to put everything back and he could finish his conversation with his mother on the phone in the kitchen. He knew he was busted. He didn't want to talk on the kitchen phone so he ended the conversation with his mother.
I didn't say anything until after dinner when my husband and I could have a private conversation. I told him what I caught the kid doing.
He was mad at ME!

Anyway, I was told to mind my own business. He had no intention of saying anything to his son because he was only telling his mother all that due to being proud of his dad for being successful.
Not long later, we were served with court papers. She wanted $1,500 a month in child support. For ONE kid. Based on complete embellishments from said kid.
I told my husband I hoped she got it.
She didn't and we're not married anymore, but my ex will go to his grave denying that his son knew what he was doing and helped her try to nail his dad.
The kid took advantage of being in the middle and he didn't really care as long as he was going to benefit from it all somehow.
To me, it was sad, and my hands were tied. Neither one of that kid's parents had nuts enough to tell him that what he was doing was hurtful and spiteful and manipulating your way through life is no way to get where you're going.
The reason for the lies needs to be dealt with, but your daughter also needs to know that saying things about you that aren't true is hurtful. Divorce is hard enough on everybody as it is. No one needs to add fuel to the fire and make it worse.
If she wants to talk to you openly and honestly about how she feels, that's one thing. You're more than willing to listen.
If she's mad at you or whatever, fine. But you don't say things about her to people that aren't true and you'd really appreciate it if she gave you the same courtesy. Especially when it comes to saying them to someone who could use what she says to hurt you.

I'm sorry you're going through this, but there is hope for you and your daughter because you ARE going to counselling. Perhaps contact the therapist and mention before your next appointment that this is something you feel you need to address and ask how to proceed.
I think making excuses or being afraid she will find out you know what she said is not the most strategic thing.

Just my opinion and I wish you the best.

Do your kids have a safe space where they can express the negative feelings they have about the divorce, about you and about your new husband?
Clearly your ex is a manipulative possible narcisist (and very dangerous it sounds to me) and in an ideal world the kids would not want any contact with him. But simply telling them not to write negative things is not going to work. Somehow you have to take the high road, find a way to hear their anger and hurt that he is having them direct at you. This takes them out of the equation if they can't be used as tools to hurt you. Perhaps your therapist can help with that.
It is hard to remember that the child with fewer outward problems may be the one who needs the most care. I think your daughter may be in great need of some therapy too.

You absolutely need to confront your daughter regarding the emails. Her behavior is not okay and there needs to be a consequence for that behavior. If it were me and my child there would be NO internet access (including a cell phone) for at least a month without your DIRECT supervision. If she wants to speak with her father, she can do it on a landline in the kitchen. If she wants to email her father, she can do it in the living room with you right there.

Internet usage is a priviledge, not a right, and she just lost that one! BTW- she IS sneaking around you... she just got caught!

Sounds like you guys are putting your child in the middle. Not good. Maybe no computer time would be a good way to curb it.
Printing out the emails and asking her why might be a good way to get some much need verbal communication going.
You really need to lay out in the yard at night, start at the stars from a blanket and ask your daughter how she's REALLY feeling. Being a kid of divorce is not easy. Especially when the parents are acting like bratty children themselves.

Sounds like you don't realize how serious this is and are mitigating her crimes against you.

Plain and simple, she is sneaking around you. She is backstabbing you by bad mouthing you via e-mails to get your ex- husband riled up...not the other way around as you seem to think. Clearly your daughter is very impacted by your new relationship, and by her actions, one can assume is harboring great anger toward you. She knows darn well what she's doing. She knows you've preached about writing bad things about people on the internet. You gave her ammuition to hurt you where it counts. She's using this against you to create turmoil. You need to find out why. Is she trying to bust you and the new guy up? Is there tension or problems between your daughter and the new guy that you are ignoring? You need to get some answers about her motives before things get really bad.

If I were you, I'd get into therapy with her as well. Clearly she is not being honest with you about her real feelings. And clearly, you both are not communicating.

Don't waste anymore time blaming your ex for everything. I'm not saying he isn't instigating trouble too, but I doubt he's making her "spy" on you. If she weren't harboring ill-feelings about you, she wouldn't do it...no matter what he'd say.

The obvious thing here is...you're with someone new and no one but you and hopefully the guy are happy about it. You must talk with your children about this, so there can be some resolve...if this is even possible. You probably won't know until you get the whole family in counseling and come to grips with the fact that for some reason the children are angry with you and for some reason feel they can not talk honestly with you about it.

Talk to your son's councilor and get her in counseling too or at least see what he/she has to say. Honestly I'm surprised they have not recommended family counseling that included your ex. Divorce is hard enough in itself, adding into the equation the 2 of you not working together when it comes to the kids makes it that much worse for everyone. You ex needs to put his feelings towards you aside and stand together with you when it comes to the kids. You need to continue monitoring the kids internet usage, including what they say in e-mails and who they talk to, this internet is on one hand great technology but it can also be dangerous especially when it comes to the kids. If you need to talk I'm here for you.

.

Hi L.-

I second everything that little miss just said...

All I can say is that my ex was/is very similar...the difference is my divorce has been final for just over 5 years now...my oldest is now 22. His true colours will show over time...truly...and your children will know that you stood on 'higher' ground.

Divorce is hell...but the aftermath...for the kids is even worse.

To quote rudyard kipling...

'If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream -- and not make dreams your master;
If you can think -- and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools;

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings -- nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run --
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And -- which is more -- you'll be a Man, my son!'

**Or in 'our' case...divorced mother's striving to be good women!

Best Luck!
Hang Tough!
michele/cat

That is very odd behavior. Does she not like your new husband?

I guess I am looking at this and thinking either he has done a number on them that they do not trust you or they just don't like your new husband.

My ex has always pulled stuff like saying bad things and trying to get information out of our kids. They never gave him a thing. They roll their eyes when he bad mouths. The thing is try as he might he could never convince them that what he said was true.

I have no idea what you can do beyond therapy with both your kids. You need someone neutral sorting through the lies. They are not going to believe you or respect you if they are buying into what their dad is saying. The therapist is working with both kids?

I don't think she is trying to please her father because she could lie and say you are doing nothing wrong. Then again it comes down to what he is saying and again I wonder about the new guy, when did he come into the picture.

I don't know, kinda rambling here. I am stumped, I can't figure out why my kids think their dad is nuts and yours are reporting back to him. I wish I could.

Children are aweful and horrible especially in divorce. Even in a marriage when the parents don't have a united front or even if they do the children will try to find a way to divide and conquer. As for your children, I hate to say this but there is no loyalty towards you from the children. Jo W's comments got me to thinking. I am the child of divorce and I would never do to my mother what your daughter is doing to you. Counseling is definitely in order. I would even seriously consider changing custody (very tricky matter). The grass for both the children and the adults always seems greener on the other side. When your kids hit 14, they may be old enough in the eyes of the court to help the judge determine what home would be best for the child or children in your state. That is true here in New Jersey.

I think you should never talk badly of your husband to your children. Get your daughter into counseling too and family counseling as well. Something isn't seeming to add up here or it could be she is more like your ex than like you in character. Try to teach her that character counts. Keep the emails and you may want to get a judge or child protective services involved too because using the kids this way is destructive and manipulative.

Both of your children need help in how to manage their father's manipulations and their emotions around the divorce.

This is a tough one. Even though you have their passwords, I think I would not tell her that I saw it. I say this because I learned the hard way how important privacy is to young teens and my daughter never forgave me. My ex actively worked against me through her teenage years, too, a really ripe time for ex's to instigate parental alienation. I'll admit this is a risky route because it's hard to keep it secret and it's probably not the route a counselor would recommend. But if I had to do it again, that's what I would do. A 12 year old frequently checking their email isn't unusual. So I'm guessing it was her timing that made you check because you suspected exactly what you would find. So the purpose of having their passwords is random checks for safety and I'm guessing your check wasn't really random at all it was just (sorry) snooping to confirm what you suspected. I don't mean this in a judgemental way because I know firsthand the crazy making that goes on when parental alienation efforts are underway by your ex.

All that said, though, I would use the information to the advantage of strengthening the relationship. I would make sure I was spending some special time with the kids without stepdad there when I was fully present with them. I would start looking for ways to create a better blended family bond, like something regularly scheduled for you and stepdad to do with the kids and for the kids like game night, pizza night, or getting some sports tickets so you can all go to home games together or anything else you think might interest them. I would fully open my eyes to whatever criticism she is sharing with your ex, even if exaggerated, to see if there is any truth to it at all, any perspective you can glean from it. Things look different from the child's perspective and you need to do everything you can to see things from her perspective. She is at an age where it is normal to start challenging you and in your circumstances, she has a trusted adult that WILL validate her perspectives which will escalate those challenges. So you need to understand those perspectives and react without being defensive, too. There is nothing a young teen wants to hear more than "You're right" "I see your point", "I think your feelings about this are valid". There is nothing they want to hear less than "you're wrong", "you're off course", "your feelings don't make sense to me". STRETCH yourself to see her perspectives and validate. Because that's where your ex has an advantage over you. The wrong course is to react defensively, criticize her or criticize him - that just pushes her further away. Treat this as feedback on her perspectives. You are just at the beginning of the teen years when you need trust and connectivity more than ever. Put your efforts into strengthening your relationship, this is a wake up call. I wish you the best.