Don't Enjoy My In-laws

they sound miserable. but i love that your husband loves his family and isn't willing to write them off because of obnoxious nephews.
the only thing you need to do, really, is make sure that you've prepped your own kids and they know that haring off with their cousins will have severe consequences. i don't buy 'it's hard for them to behave when they're around misbehavers.' of course that's true anywhere, but that's one of our main jobs as parents. a stinkeye and 'remember what we discussed?' ought to be enough to curb your kids' desire to join in the asshattery.
beyond that, it's probably hard to figure out a way to 'enjoy' excursions with the hooligans, but good mental preparation and shielding are your best friends. can you find opportunities for you kids to do things with just their grandparents? not have every get-together include the nephews?
khairete
S.

You sound a lot like my sister. Her kids love getting together with my kids because they giggle and play a lot. They're not obnoxious in my estimation - my kids never get in trouble in school or church, they're very well behaved, but they are age appropriate - they enjoy playing and running around. My sister can't tolerate it, so she's constantly reprimanding them (her own kids, not mine, but clearly they're doing the same thing mine are, so it's very passive aggressive), telling them they're too loud, too boisterous, too active, making it very clear she doesn't approve of my kids or my parenting. It's very stressful on me and, quite frankly, on everyone. In fact, my parents have commented to me that they don't understand why she's so uptight and that my kids aren't doing anything wrong.

There is no good answer for you. No one here knows how you parent or how she parents or whether one of you is in the wrong. I would guess that since your kids are younger, you believe the 10 and 12 year olds are not acting in an age appropriate way, but what you described sounds very much like the 10 and 12 year old boys my kids are around all the time.

All I can tell you is what I wish I could say to MY sister: "My kids love their cousins. They look forward to seeing them. They are embarrassed when you reprimand them. They feel like you are not a safe person to be themselves around. They know you don't like them and don't approve of them. They're uncomfortable around you. They feel unwelcome in your home and like they have to walk on eggshells around you. Your own parents don't want to stay at your house anymore when they visit because you are very uptight and controlling. And while you may dread the get together because you think my kids are inappropriate, I dread the get together because I think YOU are inappropriate. These kids will only be kids for a few more years. They will drift apart and not see each other as much as adults. We all know when you're exasperated and angry at us. You think you're being diplomatic, but you don't hide it well, and it makes all of us, not just my family but other guests too, uncomfortable. I wish you could relax and let kids be kids for just a few years."

ETA: Thanks for the SWH - they truly do sound out of control. Just try to keep in mind what I wrote in that even if you're only reprimanding your own kids, the message is there indirectly to them. Sorry you have to go through this. You can't change them or your parenting. All you can do is try to be calm and repeat "not my monkeys, not my problem."

Just me, but I have a neighbor with two boys like this. They are not allowed in my house. They will shove their way in, belch repeatedly in my face, won't listen to adults, grab whatever they want, etc.... nope, not in my house, you don't.

Most kids do usually take a cue from adults at this age-- especially non-parental adults. I'm around kids this age a lot and usually it just takes a word or two for them to know it's time to cool it. Eleven is certainly old enough to know how to behave in public.

My suggestion? Time to take a staycation, mom. Let your husband and kids go without you. Just tell him the truth "I get tired of going on trips where all I'm doing is reminding the kids to behave. I would rather stay home and have some quiet time and I think this is reasonable."

Maybe, if he has to manage this on his own, the blinders will come off and he'll see how hard this is for you. Or not, and then they can all be comfortable with the children acting like hellions and you won't have to see it.

Honestly, it sounds like your heart is in a good place-- you'd like to have some good times with your nephews, and for now, their parents aren't helping with that. There's only so much you can do when it comes to other people's kids..... sometimes the only thing to change is what you decide to do when vacations like this happen. Me, I'd be opting out of some of them, Staycation for Mom... sounds like some well-deserved time off!

Well - I've done this with my inlaws, and my husband has done it with my family - we trade off.

So if I've spent the day with inlaws and I need an hour or two (and a glass of wine!) to myself, he'll volunteer to take the kids out and give me some time to recharge.

That way, the kids won't bug you as much - you're probably overloading on it, and if you're not used to kids carrying on like this, you can probably only deal in moderate doses.

I have actually had my FIL come join me :) He'll be like "oh thank God, just some time away from the chaos".

It's not really rude - you spend the rest of the time with them, but an hour or two away ... can really save the day :) I'm pretty honest about it - nothing wrong with saying you need a time out.

I have no idea if this will be helpful (it depends on the personality of your 11 year old), but maybe you could try talking with him about how his cousin(s) have ADHD and really can't control their behavior, but *he* can, and you expect him not only to behave as he normally does, but help lead his little sibling back to normal behavior if she begins to copy them.

And while your husband loves his family, does he know all of this is going on? Hopefully he pitches in to redirect your kids as well.

a family story from my childhood:
my cousins visited for Christmas. Their mom's memory of this day was that she was so blessed she could take her kids anywhere & never have to worry about their behavior. (eye roll)

my memory...& particularly my mom's....they were freaking monsters. Jumping over furniture, knocking stuff over, & loud to boot. My mom verbally beat their asses. My grandfather (their uncle) grabbed them by the ear each time they got close enough (1960s, people)!

& their memory of the day....they were scared to death of my mom & gpa... & knew from that point on that they had to behave at family functions. By the time they were teens, they openly expressed love for both my mom & gpa. We're all in our 40s-50s now....& they mourn the loss of my gpa, & they're the 1st to hug mom when they see her.

Something to be said about stepping in & opening your mouth!!
& if you ask my nieces/nephews, they'll tell you that I never keep my mouth shut! But I'm also the aunt who included them in every single event/trip in my sons' childhoods. One Big Happy because we all worked at it!

I totally get you. Dealing with kids (mine or others) who are being obnoxious or not following basic instructions is complete torture for me, especially in public.
I agree with other posters- minimize your time together & stick to places where it's okay to run and be loud (like the beach, park, etc). In fact it sounds like your SIL would appreciate it. I don't know who's picking the venues, but it sounds like no one in your generation is enjoying themselves. Maybe telling the grandparents "I'd love to see you guys, but restaurants and museums are just too hard on us right now because of the kids' ages" and it sounds like you'd have support. Definitely pick your own private accommodations. I don't mind being the weird grumpy one with my inlaws "I know you're All staying in a house together but I need some private space so we're getting a hotel room down the street". Also know that your kids' good manners won't be permanently destroyed by occasional lapses around family, so as long as they're safe you may have to let go.

You know, telling your nephews "can you please take it down a notch, I'm getting a headache" or "I need you guys to take the rough play outside before you break something" is NOT reprimanding them. While I don't believe in disciplining another person's children, I have never had a problem reminding or redirecting bad behavior. As a school aide and volunteer, Girl and Cub Scout leader I did it all the time. And even though my nieces and nephews are pretty well behaved I never had a problem saying anything to them when necessary.
That's where the expression "it takes a village" comes from!
If you just sit there like a lump and do nothing you'll just continue to be miserable :-(

Remember, the kids can't help it that the adults have never told them no. And you are right, it's not your place to say anything to them when their parents are present. --- Actually, I amend that: If your SIL has said she's exhausted by them, then maybe she'd appreciate you stepping in some. Ask her about it. I never minded when my friends told my kids things.

You just need to become more tolerant. Stop sitting around being annoyed. Your kids are not going to become like their cousins from an occasional visit. Don't spend your whole time telling your kids "no," maybe you can loosen the reins a little while they are with their cousins.

They are family, and families come in all types, and just because these kids are annoying and undisciplined now doesn't mean they won't grow into perfectly fine adults.

These are occasions where you can work on your own personal growth. Try to lighten up and enjoy. (Not trying to be snarky, I'm just saying that we all have things we can work on.)

Many good points below, especially after you clarified a few things - thanks for doing that.

I think you have a few choices.

One is to not go. All the work is falling to you to stay on top of your children. I don't agree that your kids don't know how to behave or what's expected of them. They know. So either they are getting a subtle or not-so-subtle message from others (even their dad, if he's not taking steps here) that somehow it will be overlooked, or they are taking heat from the cousins or the other adults that you are too strict. I'm not saying you are too strict, only that they're getting pressure beyond just observing their cousins acting up and they want to be accepted. Maybe you are being a tad too vigilant and reining in your kids before they do anything wrong, rather than waiting for them to actually offend. Or maybe you are trying to stay ahead of the hotel, restaurant and museum staff.

Another choice is for you to stay home and to let your husband take the kids to be with HIS family. He's close to them, and that's great. But why not let HIM have to deal with your kids instead of you being the bad guy? You're the one who hates these gatherings, so why subject yourself to it? That kind of draws a line in the sand and tells your husband he has to make a choice. If he chooses to go and hates it, you'll have made your point. If he chooses to go and loves it, he's going to have the work and you will be spared the nonsense. Then you have to decide when you WILL see his relatives and under what conditions. You can also make your points ahead by either telling the in-laws WHY you aren't going, how you hate the BS behavior, etc. or just let your husband do the explaining. If they miraculously wake up and say, "How can we make it better?" you can weigh in. But at least you can take the money saved by not spending it on a vacation you hate, and book yourself into a spa for some pampering or just enjoy the quiet at home. If your husband doesn't mind doing all the disciplining, fine. If no one can stand the weekend because your kids are now also a part of the misbehaving and hitting, and someone gets a black eye or they all get throw out of the hotel, so be it. Maybe it will be a wake-up call. It's not ideal for your kids if you and your husband aren't on the same page about discipline, but your continued participation in this nonsense is not helping anyone.

A final choice is to take the "it takes a village" approach and to sit your nephews down and say, in front of their parents, "Your mother is exhausted by your behavior, and so I am. Sit your butts down until you can behave, or we are going home." Then you have to be willing to go home and to endure any pushback from the in-laws (SIL, BIL or grandparents) that they don't think it's a big deal. Then you're really screwed and out there alone on the S.S. Discipline. If you aren't sure your husband will stand up with you, this is a very risky position.

I think the place to start is your own husband, what values you have for raising your children together, and what price you're each willing to pay. You've given him plenty of years doing it his way, so maybe it's time someone did it your way.

Not going may not be an option, but can you put some boundaries on the venues you will get together with them at? Stay at a different hotel (because you want some more quiet space for your immediate family)and arrange to meet the larger group for a picnic at the beach, or at a waterpark or take out food at the playground, etc. A place where the kids can run around and be loud. Just say, I'm sorry, we love you guys, you know going to restaurants/museums, etc all together isn't working right now. Blame the large group dynamic for amping everyone up. Suggest it may work better when the kids are older. If they really want to go through their kids antics at those places, they can bring them themselves. Why not make some plans with just MIL and FIL and your immediate family once in awhile too. Your DH can also make time to spend with his family individually. It doesn't have to be the whole group every time.

As an Auntie myself, my stance on this is when "The Cousins" get together at family functions, I treat them as a unit. Not 'my kids' & 'your kids' but
THE KIDS. Group mentality totally takes over for them anyways, let's be honest! Ha! So every time you think of speaking up to your kids, do it to the whole group of the little rowdy munchkins, put the whole pack on blast at once.

This would drive me crazy & be addressed immediately! Family is family. You can be nice & still establish boundaries Auntie...get on it...apparently no one else is stepping up.

Running & jumping in hotel hallways!?
Being loud & running through public places?!
How's the restaurant behavior? Ugh!
No way! Manners & respect. Teach it Auntie.

I'm curious whether you ever get any "one-on-one" time with your in-laws. i.e., do YOUR kids ever get time with their grandparents without the cousins and aunts/uncles around?

This is one of my pet peeves - when grandparents do not recognize that their adult kids may have different parenting styles from one another, and that sometimes extended family are not going to mesh together the way the original nuclear family did when they were growing up.

For that reason I think it's a good idea to keep extended family vacations on the shorter side (like a weekend) vs. big long trips together. And I think it's good for grand-kids to get some solo time with the grandparents, ESPECIALLY when the grandparents basically raise one set of grand-kids or spend lots of time with them.

I get very annoyed when I take time and $$$ to go see my parents (who live far away) and my kids can't get two minutes with their grandparents without all the other cousins (who spend time daily with the GPs) piling in.

I hope I'm more sensitive to this issue with my own future grand-kids, if I'm blessed to have any! And of course we love our kids' cousins - we just want to have a relationship too!

Maybe you'd be less annoyed if your kids could get some independent time with your in-laws?

PS: I'm sorry if I went off track with your question. You struck a chord with me when you mentioned that your in-laws spend lots of time with the nephews.

I would find ways to balance family time with private time. If they go in on a house, you get a nearby apartment, so you can leave if it's too much. If they go to an amusement park and your kids act up following the cousins, then you can do something like say, "I think we need to go back to our apartment" or "We're going to stay in the food area for a while. My children need a reminder that (insert behavior here) is not acceptable in public." Or "SIL, you and your boys can go on ahead. My children want to see x exhibit." Let them run away from HER, not you. Remove yourselves if they won't handle their children.

Your DH has probably built up an immunity to them over the years, but I would point out to him behaviors that are not just annoying but dangerous and how the nephews entice your kids to join in. "DH, I really need you to understand that I don't hate their kids, but when they are encouraging our 5 yr old to jump from the dresser to the bed, that's not just bad behavior, that's dangerous. I need to find a middle ground where I don't feel like the visits are just one big "don't".

I'd also reiterate with your children at every event "This is what I expect from you, always. Even if your cousins are running through the hall."

If SIL is "too tired" but brings it up to you, perhaps suggest to her to find a parenting coach that will help her find the right things to do/say to rein in her family. What she doesn't do now will bite her hard later. I realize she might not want to do any medication but what DOES she do? Perhaps in a quieter moment ask her what resources she has, because this can't be fun for her OR her child. Not every kid needs meds, but I've seen truly out of control children do so much better with medication. One boy we avoided at campouts because his behavior was dangerous (putting sticks in the fire and waving the hot end at our children) and thankfully his father finally relented and got him appropriate help. He could just not turn OFF, is the only way I can describe it, and the height of it was around 11 yrs old.

I also like the idea to schedule one on one time with the grands with just your kids. Maybe phrase it as this will be SIL's time with the grands and next trip will be yours, even if it's just a day vs a week. My sister and I will routinely visit our grandmother with our kids because our kids and the cousins and their kids is just overwhelming. Nobody gets quality time that way.

Ok heck no. I could not deal with this scenario in anything but very small doses in private yards, not public. Limit your time with them. Their kids are extremely obnoxious in public ( I HATE THAT IT'S SO EMBARRASSING AND STRESSFUL AND ANNOYING) and yours aren't so they never feel annoyed by your kids. Because even when your kids are being bad and stressing you out under the influence, they're not as bad as their kids, so they don't mind. Been there done that. Horrible!

Just say no to the big trips and big long visits. You'll feel 1000% better.

As for the ADHD...funny how the child ALSO happens to have completely permissive parents. So no one knows how his behavior would be if had effective discipline from age 2 when kids learn they can do whatever they want-or not. All the drastic behavior you describe including running and screaming uncontrollably in quiet places is found in completely normal children without discipline. And all the parents I know who have "given up" never really tried to be diligent through those difficult formative years from age 1 to 4. The parents who did take discipline seriously, never gave up at any age. So quit sympathizing with her and letting her talk your ear off about how her kids are too hard for her. It's maddening to listen to that when you've done your time heavy lifting with your kids and always will. Parents like that exhaust me and I have no more patience. Her child MAY have ADHD. But even so the behavior would be much different with some effective parenting. I have 3 kids, one difficult and one EXTREMELY difficult. It took tireless work to get them to be the well behaved (usually) kids they are today. I have no time to be around terrors more than necessary. Nor do I have time for people who tell me "You're lucky your kids are so easy. Mine are just way more spirited...."

I suggest that you absolutely speak up and tell your little hellion nephews to cut it out. Your SIL will appreciate that what she's trying to tell them is also coming from someone else, and it may very well have an impact on them to hear it coming from someone other than their harried mother. It takes a village. Show your support to your SIL. You might be surprised.

I don't care whose kids they are...if there's backtalking, hitting, general brattiness and chaos, you can bet that I'm going to lock eyes with those kids and very sternly tell them to stop or they can go sit on a chair under adult supervision for awhile until they remember their manners. I've never had another parent challenge me or be offended, they've always nodded their heads in agreement and been appreciative that they have support in what they are trying to teach the kids. Same goes for me. If my boys are acting like fools (which is rare), I have no problem with any adult telling them to shape up.

Best of luck!

ADDED: Just saw the SWH. I get the frustration. Next time you try a museum that's kid-friendly, I'd divide and conquer: "SIL, I'm taking (my kids) to a particular exhibit they read about before we came. We will meet you and Nephews at 11:30 by the clock in the lobby." Then you nip off quickly with your own kids. They may protest that they want to be with Nephews but the kids just do not have to be together every second of every visit. I would carve out time where you and the kids go off and say firmly, and smiling, that you'll meet the others at a specific time later. Taking your kids to do something separate like that is also a great job for your husband and his brother, for instance, and you can spend time with MIL since you seem to like her. Plan it out in advance so you and husband are on the same page. Since your own son is 11, I also suggest you let husband and uncle take the nephews plus your son somewhere while you take the younger child somewhere more age-appropriate. Let dad go off and deal with the boys including your own older one so you don't see or hear what stresses you out anyway. Your younger child will complain but don't cave; find an appropriate but fun thing to do together.

Regarding hotels -- that would be the thing that drove me most crazy. If you are staying in the same hotels, I would arrange -- quietly, by calling the hotel before you ever get there -- to have your room on another floor or in another wing so your own kids don't hear the hallway shenanigans.

The restaurant story with the boy whipping other kids with part of a plant etc, and melting down like a toddler -- be prepared, if that happens again, to leave. Just say, "I'm sorry but it's clear Nephew is tired out, and it's time to get our own kids home." And go, swiftly and without more discussion. That level of scene in public, with a child as old as 10, is troubling, and I would just tell the parents that you're sorry but you feel Nephew might be calmer if the meal were over. Wow.....

ORIGINAL: It's possible that the mom/your SIL is much firmer at home than you see her being at these family outings. She might be afraid or embarrassed to give consequences on the spot, or maybe she's trying to act calm and neutral and not correct in public. You and I might not react like that but she might be more like my SIL, who goes very quiet when our niece acts up in public places. Yes, I'd prefer SIL was much firmer (and more consistent) but it's not up to me.

And I can tell you, your nephews do not care when you correct them, or even if you nicely ask them to stop doing something. Why? They only see you these four times a year, and they have no sense whatsoever that you have any authority to correct them. You may feel you do, because you are an adult and their older relative; I totally get that because it's MY gut feeling around our niece. But it does not mean the kid will ever acknowledge that anything you say is something he or she must actually heed. Can you see that? It's why I no longer try to direct or correct my niece. Not worth the breath wasted.

Has anyone considered that the locations and sight-seeing are not very engaging for these boys of 10 and 12? Think through where you have met and whether those were locations with things for these boys to actually DO in an active, hands-on way. I wonder if the locations chosen are for the adults rather than the kids, so the kids get bored and run around? While children (especially by age 10 to 12) should not have to be entertained all the time, and should be able to control themselves in public, I would look into doing something next time that would get the kids out of the adults' hair and give the kids more to do. Maybe meet somewhere that an adult (and there's usually one adult who would love to skip out on adult family time) can take the kids to play laser tag or something like that. Get the energy out.

And remember this: Those nephews could be great guys in a few years, or right now, and you won't know it. You only see them in a kind of artificial situation. I'd ask their parents what they're into, what their activities and interests are, and I'd ask the boys about it next time you see them. "Your mom said you made the travel soccer team--how many times a week do you play?" "I heard you really like science class; do you get to do experiments?" Etc. It won't make for long conversations but it might help you see beyond the behaviors that come out when they are dragged along on family outings.

Maybe it's also time to switch to meetings that are not about a destination and sight-seeing. Find a large park with good picnic facilities and bring a ton of game stuff with you. It's also MUCH easier to leave when you choose in that kind of situation than to get out of a day's planned activities at some special destination.

You mention the nephews as the source of your frustration. If you actually like SIL and/or MIL's company as adult women, arrange to do something with just them, no kids along, at another time. No reason to not have a good and grown-up relationship with adults in the family.

I would gently tell SIL that medicine might help her regain control-and she can always take him off later.
The situation sounds terrible. I honestly wouldn't partake in any more events unless they are beach, park, some place where you can watch your kids and somewhat ignore hers.
I have an ADHD kid whose given me a hard time (he's got hearing issues too). Getting together with family is usually a relief for me because my family will pull him to the side and talk with him/keep him entertained (he's also 10). If he was beating other children with a switch I would have scooped him up with the switch and taken him home for his turn!!! Good that your BIL is trying to help, but sounds like mom needs an intervention!

That sounds stressful. It's true, how can you really enjoy your time when it's crazyville?!!? My suggestion is to find a place where the kids can play and run around. How about a park? You can do a BBQ or potluck there and the kids run, climb trees, etc. Just a thought.

I know it's tough, but like you said, not getting together is not an option at this point. And, unfortunately, her kids are not gonna change just for those 4x per year. Ya know?

Just do your best to make it work and try and remember that your kids are building fun memories with their cousins. Those memories do last a lifetime.

can you scale back on the anount of gatherings you attend? we used to have dinner with cake and ice cream for every single birthday ( 9 adults and 10 kids total) and every single time my kids were a basket case for 24-48 hours afterward. it got too be too much so we stopped going. it was hard at first, missing all the fun, but not having 2 cranky misbehaving kids that spend 2 days crying for no reason is worth missing one night of fun

Your kids are old enough to understand that everyone has to follow general rules of behavior, but that everyone listens to their own mother, or the adult in charge.

i.e. no one is allowed to push, but John may be allowed to have ice cream for breakfast if that is the way his parents' choose to parent.

Good luck,
F. B.

It really sounds to me like both of those kiddos have ADHD. When someone you love has a disorder like that, maybe you just have to let go of some of that control and be a little more flexible and empathetic and think of better ways of doing things together. I say this because I have a family member who is similar and I have to remind myself all the time that they are not the same and a simple command or plan will not work the same way. We have to make concessions and plan ahead in order to get close to the same result or compliance from him. Maybe take-out food would be best until he's more in control, or having lunch and dinner at the beach or park, for example. The parents are exhausted, but they need to take the lead here and figure out what will work best for their boys. Maybe they do their own dinner in the room and then you all meet after for the fun. Really, these kids need more help and trying to get them to do all of the things your kids do, is not fair to them or your sanity. I bet their parents would welcome less restaurant time and more active fun time when you are all together. Sounds like those kids need to meet at the pool, or park or ball field where they can move and be free and have fun.

My advice - stop spending so much time with them. Group vacation / getaways four times a year? I've never done that with my own family. Too much togetherness is rough. At that age I didn't like anyone's kids - I loved my own but didn't always like them - so I udnrestand completely.

So for this next getaway - get yoru own place so you're not with them so much. Find an excuse (trouble sleeping, migraines, high blood pressure...) and tell them ahead of time you need to book a separate place for your family. That way you and the kids can head back to your place early while your hsuband can hang out with his family.

Last thing to consdier - it's easy to judge another kids's behavior if you have easy kids. My kids were not peaceful and easy - but they were disciplined. But I was often jealous of those people who had peaceful, docile agreeable kids. But now that all of our kids are teens and we can see the personality coming out some of those docile kids are followers and don't know how to take a stand. Just saying.