Discipline for the Second Borns

Updated on September 17, 2011
D.P. asks from McKinney, TX
10 answers

I do know what to do yet somehow things never turned out as planned.

With my first it was simple. I stuck to my guns regardless of where and what we were doing.

With my second I find myself giving too many chances. Not just because she has special needs but I feel like when I take her home when were out in the park or for ice cream that I am inadvertently punishing my eldest. I did have a talk with my eldest recently and told her that we might just have to give up a bit of her fun to straighten up her sister (oh no, straighten up sounds so harsh lol). She is quite willing to help me out. So I guess there is no dilemma there.

My question is when you have more than one kid, how do you enforce discipline without inadvertently punishing the innocent?

To add.. my kids are 7 and 5. The youngest is Autistic. I know I should be more consistent with her but her kisses make me weak. As far as rivalry between them it isn't really there. My eldest just loves the little one the most and forgives her for anything and everything. She literally shrugged when her sister dipped her Ipad in the pool. She gets candy from somewhere, she always make sure she saves the little one's favorites. Maybe that is the problem. Maybe we all spoil the little monster.

My biggest issue is following directions. She will attempt to cross the street if I am not vigilant. She thinks it is funny to do the exact opposite of what she is told not to do. "Do not step on the puddle" is a guarantee that she will be in muck with her brand new shoes and she will do this with a snicker. "Clean up your mess" turns into ripping more paper and tossing it in the air in the middle of the living room *sigh* I need a glass of wine some days...

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So What Happened?

Ooops used the wrong word not corporal *changed*

I got my big girl panties on !! We went to Wally's and I was supposed to get ice cream with our groceries (I normally don't because of little miss "eat all i can"). I pulled her out of the car and told her if she does not behave then there will be no ice cream and gave my 7 yo a heads up that this might happen. Sure enough, the little one failed to listen and tried to run in the street. so... POOF* no ice cream. She cried and screamed on and off but each outburst only lasted a few seconds and we went home without any ice cream. I'm just gonna have to keep at it. Thanks for all the advice. It is greatly appreciated. I recognize my shortcomings and am working on them and please do not worry about my first born. We do treat her fair. She does get her breakfasts with mom at her favorite breakfast spot and her times with dad at the bookstore. Her favorite things to do at the moment. Now I am off to have a glass of muscato. Not my favorite but it will have to do ;-D

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A.H.

answers from Omaha on

Jim Fay's Love and Logic books are so helpful with this kind of thing. I have a 3.5 year old son and a 2 year old daughter. I can relate to what you are saying. Sometimes I do feel like my son gets the brunt of some stuff for being the eldest and a boy, but the Love and Logic philosophies really help keep the fairness on an even keel. What I like most is this example of fairness: fairness is not the SAME treatment for all individuals. Fairness is giving what a person needs when they need it most. And it can look different from child to child. Jim Fay is all about sharing control, giving choices and giving empathy when a child goofs up. So I always try to keep this in mind with my kids. From what you wrote I am guessing your youngest daughter acts up at a park or while getting ice cream and you feel your only choice is to go home, which automatically ends your eldest daughter's fun even if she wasn't causing any trouble? This is what I would do in that case: Give your daughter two choices that you are ok with. (Would you like to play on the swings or slide? Would you like to ride the teeter totter or play in the sand? etc. Give her a ton of choices like this so she feels like she has some control over her own decision-making. I think doing that eliminates 95% of a child's misbehavior. If she cannot decide within a short amount of time ( a minute or two) say you will decide for her. After awhile giving so many choices and letting children call their own shots (within your given boundaries) lets them trust that we aren't trying to treat them like a puppet in which we control all the strings. At this point you can say, "I see you are having a tough time making a decision so I will make it for you this time." Or when it is a situation that you must make the decision you can reason with "Doesn't mommy usually give you lots of choices to make decisions on your own? This time I have to make a grown-up decision. I need you to help me out. Thanks."
I have used these books as a teacher and now as a parent. I highly recommend their workshops and liking their facebook page if you are on facebook. They give a lot of great tips there too.
It sounds like your eldest daughter is understanding. I know my daughter went through a phase around 18 months that it was harder to reason with her, so we just stayed home for awhile. Plan some one on one time with your eldest so she can see that you aren't deliberately trying to punish her because of her sister's antics. Good luck and I hope this helps!
A.

4 moms found this helpful
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B..

answers from Dallas on

"Maybe that is the problem. Maybe we all spoil the little monster."

Yes, I think you're right!

3 moms found this helpful

J.W.

answers from St. Louis on

You have one of two choices, either don't punish either of them and have those kids that everyone talks about or accept that the other will get punished a bit for the others actions.

What happens when you don't punish either is the older one figures it out as well and you end up with two awful children. Don't do it!!

It is very clear in my house that if rules are broken by anyone on specific subjects, those that can't be separated like TV, all are punished. What ends up happening is the one who was not about to commit the crime tells the other one to knock it off before you get caught because they have a vested interest in the other one's good behavior. What you end up with is peer pressure teaching the other one right and wrong.

Oh yeah, an added bonus you don't get all that whiney tattling that I personally hate. See if they tattle they both get punished you would have to have a pretty stupid child if they didn't considered that end result. :)

I am telling you punishing them both is the best thing, you end up with another set of eyes keeping everything going.

Okay just to give you an idea of how I see it, why this works for me. You see someone shoplifting in the store and do nothing, are you really innocent just because you didn't actually commit the crime? Not saying that those that ignore crime are guilty of the crime but not trying to stop the criminal is wrong too, why not teach that lesson young.

2 moms found this helpful
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R.J.

answers from Seattle on

OPTION

When you have to leave... the behaving child gets something special either while the misbehaving child is on timeout... OR special 1:1 time you mark on your calendar as soon as you get home

1 mom found this helpful

G.K.

answers from San Francisco on

It's definitely a tricky situation, and as much as I try to be consistent with the 2nd, I DO feel like I sometimes punish the oldest. However, sometimes it's absolutely necessary to cut off the oldest's fun (ie: playground, etc). I will say that I hardly have any problems with my kids outside the home, and usually the biggest issue with my 2nd is that she doesn't always like to hold my hand in a parking lot or whatever situation warrants it. She's very independent, but that's one thing I NEVER waver on (safety, ya know?).

I have more issue with them at home actually, so it's a lot easier to be consistent with punishment. I think you did a great thing by explaining to your first. Treat like you'd want to be treated in that situation, and try not to take your frustration, anger, etc for your 2nd out on your first. WAY harder than it sounds, I know, but sometimes, I have to stop myself before I yell at the innocent for the crimes of the not-so-innocent.

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S.H.

answers from Honolulu on

Please get the book "How To Talk So Kids Will Listen, and Listen So Kids Will Talk."

One thing you have to be careful of, is placing your eldest in a stereotyped 'role'... of always being the one that has to be an 'example' for her younger sibling. That is not fair, an eldest child can really resent that and you and the sibling, and it is a lot of stress and pressure, for an eldest child to be cast in that 'role.' And many times, the Eldest child, will even be harder to handle... because they are rebelling against, being forced into that role. They are a child, themselves... with their own identity and needs.

Anyway, this is a good book, and it has a chapter on things like that.

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M.B.

answers from Austin on

Not knowing when/where the situations occur, can you use time out to discipline the younger one, while the older one is still having her fun?

For example... if you are at the park, and something happens, she has to sit on the bench (time out) while her sister is still having fun.

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K.M.

answers from Kansas City on

Try re-framing how you speak to her. It will take a lot of practice, but rather than saying "Do not step on the puddle" say "walk to/with me" without even drawing attention to the puddle. Instead of "clean up your mess", say "pick up all of the blue (fill in the blank) toys put them in the box". Specific, direct instructions only.

Dipping an Ipad in the pool should warrant punishment. Immediately. If she can't respect people or belongs at age five, then it will only get worse and harder to correct as she gets older! I'm concerned that as your daughter gets older, she may get tired of this and grow to resent her. That would be sad considering what a good relationship they have now!

Get consistent and good luck! Now, have that glass of wine and plan your strategy to get your "little monster" back on track! :)

A.J.

answers from Williamsport on

I am always very firm with ONLY the one using wrong behavior at any given time. I almost NEVER do something that makes ALL kids pay for the behavior of one. I think the first time I ever did it was the other day. My 3 year old (Mine are 5, 3, and 2) was not behaving too well in a cafe. Not terrible, but he was ignoring my warnings to not be "climby" and stuff.

When it was time to go, I had told them we may have ice cream after lunch, but since he wasn't nice, we were ALL leaving without dessert. Maybe not all the way fair, but neither is life. It made a big impact, and before our next errand, my oldest was warning him right along with me to behave :) If it wasn't such a quiet, intimate setting, I may have swatted him in the restroom to stop the behavior early on after a warning (rare and instantly effective) then they could have all had their ice cream after a lunch with good behavior, and the other two wouldn't have been punished by no ice cream, but you have to do what you can at any given time if you don't want the behavior to slide.

For the most part, my younger ones learned a lot form older ones getting disciplined, so they needed less, but my 3rd is truly a born terror, so she has needed quite a bit of focus regarding her temper. It's well under control now though. But I just focus on any moment at hand, with whichever child needs it. They're all equals that way.

T.C.

answers from Dallas on

I suggest reading "Siblings Without Rivalry" (a must need for anyone with more than one kid!), as well as "Positive Discipline" by Jane Nelsen. She has several books, so depending on your child's ages, you might want to get the preschool aged one since it'll focus more on what that age group is dealing with. She also has a 0-3 years one that might fit the ages better. They have a ton of good info - more than I can write in here!

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