Debate with MIL- Socialism vs Democracy

socialism is an economic system, while democracy is a form of government, or a political system, so you can't debate them.

What you can debate is if socialism or capitilism is necessary for there to be a democracy.

the following is a pretty good description:

http://www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/politics/d...

In the United States, socialism is where we heading and democracy is what we used to enjoy.

You need to start by looking up the definition of socialism. Like so many terms throw around these days, no one actually knows the real meanings of anything.

People throw out democracy to mean free market but it had nothing to do with economics. People throw out socialism to mean government control when it means government ownership in key sectors. Really this administration is the closest we have come to socialism when you consider this is the first time the federal government has owned controlling shares of some major sectors, auto and banking.

Well, you can't really debate "socialism vs democracy." Socialism is a economic system and democracy is a political system. They aren't even on the same spectrum. Like arguing apples and elephants.

You can have a socialist democracy (Sweden). They are not mutually exclusive.

ETA: I wasn't able to open the two-cow explanation, so here's a cut and paste. It's pretty accurate!

THE "TWO-COW EXPLANATION" OF WHAT MAKES...

A CHRISTIAN:
You have two cows. You keep one and give one to your neighbor.

A SOCIALIST:
You have two cows. The government takes one and gives it to your
neighbor.

A REPUBLICAN:
You have two cows. Your neighbor has none. So what?

A DEMOCRAT:
You have two cows. Your neighbor has none. You feel guilty for being
successful. You vote people into office who tax your cows, forcing
you to sell one to raise money to pay the tax. The people you voted for
then take the tax money and buy a cow and give it to your neighbor.
You feel righteous.

A COMMUNIST:
You have two cows. The government seizes both and provides you with
milk.

A FASCIST:
You have two cows. The government seizes both and sells you the
milk. You join the underground and start a campaign of sabotage.

DEMOCRACY, AMERICAN STYLE:
You have two cows. The government taxes you to the point you have to
sell both to support a man in a foreign country who has only one cow,
which was a gift from your government.

CAPITALISM, AMERICAN STYLE:
You have two cows. You sell one, buy a bull, and build a herd of
cows.

BUREAUCRACY, AMERICAN STYLE:
You have two cows. The government takes them both, shoots one, milks
the other, pays you for the milk, then pours the milk down the drain.

AN AMERICAN CORPORATION:
You have two cows. You sell one, and force the other to produce the
milk of four cows. You are surprised when the cow drops dead.

A FRENCH CORPORATION:
You have two cows. You go on strike because you want three cows.

A JAPANESE CORPORATION:
You have two cows. You redesign them so they are one-tenth the size
of an ordinary cow and produce twenty times the milk.

A GERMAN CORPORATION:
You have two cows. You reengineer them so they live for 100 years,
eat once a month, and milk themselves.

AN ITALIAN CORPORATION:
You have two cows but you don't know where they are.
You break for lunch.

A RUSSIAN CORPORATION:
You have two cows. You count them and learn you have five cows. You
count them again and learn you have 42 cows. You count them again and
learn you have 12 cows. You stop counting cows and open another bottle
of vodka.

A MEXICAN CORPORATION:
You think you have two cows, but you don't know what a cow looks
like. You take a nap.

A SWISS CORPORATION:
You have 5000 cows, none of which belongs to you.
You charge for storing them for others.

A BRAZILIAN CORPORATION:
You have two cows. You enter into a partnership with an American
corporation.
Soon you have 1000 cows and the American corporation declares
bankruptcy.

AN INDIAN CORPORATION:
You have two cows. You worship them.

A TALIBAN
You have two cows. You turn them loose in the Afghan "countryside"
and they both die. You blame the godless American infidels.

And finally, a quote: "Democracy is not freedom. Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat for lunch. Freedom comes from the recognition of certain rights which may not be taken, not even by a 99% vote." ~Marvin Simkin

The US military is a "pure" socialist system.
- food
- clothing
- housing
- healthcare
- education
- legal aid
- fitness
- etc.

All provided free of charge. One can alway buy more/better/different... But the basics are all available for everyone.

Most of Northern Europe is a Democratic Socialist conjunction. Democratic / Republic government (Individual Voting as well as representaional voting through elected officials in Houses of Parliament). SOME social services are provided for all, free if charge, others have income levels attached to them.

As others have clearly stated, democracy is a political system. Socialism is an economic system. There are societies where the two coexist, there are societies where you have one but not the other, there are societies where you have neither.

Just one clarification about socialism. Socialism in theory means that the workers control the means of production. In its most basic, idealized form, it doesn't necessarily involve government. It's more like workers co-owning a factory instead of having an owner/employee system.

There is a huge range of countries that call themselves socialist but are completely different in reality. You can have a failed economy / dictatorship like North Korea, where the government controls all aspects of the economy and everybody's lives. You can also have market (capitalist) economies with socialist attributes, where the government controls sectors of the economy believed to be essential, like health care, while inessential sectors, like telecom, are in private hands. In classic market socialism, the government is a major (but not sole) investor in private companies, with a eye toward encouraging those companies in socially responsible directions.

People who claim that socialism means absolute government control of the economy, or who claim that the US is moving in a radically socialist direction, are not well informed on political economics or current events.

Really, any country can call itself socialist, and any country can call itself a democracy.

Technically, Iran is just as much a democracy as the US, because the government was elected with popular support (though the opposition is violently suppressed).

So, one is an economic system; one is a political system. And really, both labels are so widely used and misused that in some social and political circles, the words become sort of meaningless.

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ETA: LOL at cows! I added two more, based on research I'm doing at work, but they're not as good 'cuz I just made them up:

EU: You have two cows. You get together with all your former enemies and build one huge super-cow. Everything is wonderful until the super-cow realizes its power, takes over your farm, and gives it to Germany.

Arab Spring: You have two cows. The dictatorship seizes them. You participate in a popular revolt that inspires the world. You win and get your cows back. You then elect a theocratic government. That government takes one look at your cows and shoots them for being all immodest with their udders and all. Now you have none. :(

Mirriam/Webster dictionary

Socialism - : A: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property B: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

Democracy - a: government by the people; especially: rule of the majority
b: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections.

Rabid politicians like to manipulate perceptions until the TRUE definitions are lost in rhetoric. It pisses me off.

ADD: The "Cow" answer completely cracked me up, but they forgot to add the "Open a Churrascaria chain" for the Brazilian one- yummy!.

My guess is, you're going to get a whole lot of opinions on this that are based on people not really understanding the differences. I really suggest you do some actual research on this. The claims being thrown around in the news for the last 4-5 years about socialism are really inaccurate. A lot of schools actually stopped teaching civics a long time ago, so I find people really don't have much background on this!

It's apples to oranges.

Socialism is a form of economy. Democracy is a form of government.

You're both wrong. You're comparing two different topics! :)

Socialism is the opposite of capitalism. Socialism is where society all pitches in (think the Smurfs), and then the benefits are all distributed evenly.

Capitalism is letting the market determine price, product and availability.

Democracy is a form of government. A pure democracy is where every decision is by majority vote of the people. That would be terrible - we'd be voting every other week on stop signs, speed limits and medicare and abortion!

A Republic is the modified form of democracy we have - we elect the policy makers and executive, but they carry out the details (i.e. laws) and any major changes (i.e. constitution) have to have a vote of the people.

I agree with Christy Lee- socialism is an economic system, democracy is a political system.

It might be more helpful to discuss capitalism and socialism, and where we fall in the continuum between those two. Then separately discuss democracy (including its many forms- direct, republic, parlimentary, etc), authoritarianism, totalitarianism, monarchy, and other forms of political systems. That is, if you think it's a good idea to debate these things with your MIL, which is another discussion entirely!

There is no one "catch all" box for these terms...as they mean different things to different people. Here is MY meaning

Democracy - majority rule.

Socialism - where the government controls everything....including the economy...taxation is high to "care" for the welfare state..."free" healthcare (not), wealth redistribution - what I make is no longer just for ME and MY family - it's for EVERYONE else (darn - sounds like the U.S. right now, doesn't it?) - the COLLECTIVE RESPONSIBILITY "rule" - where everyone is responsible for each other...supposedly no poverty (haven't seen that work yet in ANY nation). Yes! I know that under many definitions, it is believed that under socialism, the PEOPLE are responsible...but alas...in MY OPINION!!! they are not. The people need direction and they turn to the government to control it. Karl Marx is the prime example of that - again - in my opinion.

Republic - which is WHAT WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE!!! Of the people, by the people, FOR The people...with a "head of state" elected by the people...

So have I confused you enough? We, the United States of America, are now a mixture of Socialism, democracy and a republic. We have allowed wealth redistribution, we have allowed the government to come in and basically take over yet we still vote...

have a great day!! enjoy debating with your Mother In Law...I wish mine was still around to debate with.

lived during socialism, now living in democracy. both have crappy economies.

I have always liked the cow explanation:
http://www.extremelysmart.com/humor/cowsexplain.php

You can't compare and contrast Socialism and democracy because they are totally unrelated and aren't mutually exclusive. (There are plenty of Socialist Democracies).

Democracy is a political system. It refers to the way leaders are selected and decisions are made. There's Direct Democracy where each person's vote counts toward each decision (kind of how states do "propositions" or "referendums") and Representative Democracy where individuals vote for representatives who then vote on our behalf for laws (our national politics).

Socialism is an economic system. It refers to the way wealth and work are distributed, and the way in which services are provided. All public services are socialist. Period. Public schools. Police departments. Fire departments. Public parks, pools, rec centers. In some countries, more services are socialized like healthcare, housing, higher education, child care, food etc.

That being said, I don't really understand how you "debate" when you each pull a different topic. A debate really needs you on opposing sides of the SAME topic, otherwise you're doomed to end up talking in circles and confusing yourselves. You might have better luck if you put a statement in the hat, and then argue sides, instead of just a broad topic, you can't really pick a side on "capitalism" all you can do is define it.

The debate sounds like fun!

I wish I had your mil!

I don't have an answer for you, but I LOVE the two cow thing!

Ditto Diane. I am pretty sure there are wikis for both of these ideas.
There area lot of people who misunderstand both concepts. (and I stayed out too late last night to even think clearly!)

Have fun with your debates.

I'm a social democrat, so it's one in the same to me.

Socialism, the government controls the economy and the law. Democracy, the people control the government. Therefore, in a social democracy the people control the economy and the law.

All government, no people. Socialists believe government should control law, manage the economy (what citizens can spend on something and how much they have to pay for it), and they also believe in political inequality.

Democracy is liberty, equality and the pursuit of happiness for its citizens...basically everything the Constitution says.

Love the 2 cow thing! Got my morning chuckle anyway!

Mira has given an excellent overview. The basic distinctions are between capitalism and socialism, not between democracy and socialism.

The U.S. is strongly, but not completely, capitalistic (in which demand determines price, and individuals determine whether they can afford to consume some product or service they want or need), but we have MANY "socialistic" features here, too. Some examples:

Our politicians, police, and armed forces, public schools and roads, fire departments, and a great deal of scientific research, are largely paid for by all taxpayers, even those who don't see any value them or use them directly. So are subsidies to various industries (like farming, or big bank bailouts, and incentives to draw certain industries/sports to your area), and emergency measures to deal with natural disasters. If we all share the cost, whether or not we use those particular services and programs, they are socialistic by design.

ADDED: I was surprised several years ago to realize that even our private insurance is socialistic, as well as capitalistic. Every policy holder pays, whether or not they are actively using their benefits. But because they pay so generously, benefits are there for the policyholders who need them. It's also highly capitalistic, because not everybody can afford insurance, and because the companies get to decide how much profit goes into the pockets of those who own/run the companies.

Interesting question!

I love the debate idea!!

Ill bet that was entertaining.
You're comparing two different things!

Updated

Ill bet that was entertaining.
You're comparing two different things!