Dad Who Only Has Visitation Will Not Let Me Talk to My 9 Year Old

Ditto to what the others said. I also agree that when your son is visiting with his father, talking with you every 3-4 days is appropriate. If he's talking to you every day (or more than once a day, as I get the impression you might want), he has no chance to adjust to being with his father (and without you), and that defeats the point of the visits. I really don't think he is 'way out of line' in this case.

There seem to be several things complicating the situation. You seem to feel the father doesn't really WANT to spend time with his son (why else did you include the information about him cancelling weekend visits and him asking for visitation when the boy was 5?). You might do well to assume, however, that the dad really DOES want to spend time with him because he did make the substantial effort to establish visitation after 5 years. As well, you seem to feel like your son doesn't even want to be with his father and you aren't really comfortable with him being there either, it seems, or you wouldn't feel so upset about talking to him every few days. Is it possible that your son's reluctance to go is at least partly him picking up on your reluctance? Just a thought to consider.

I do understand that it is hard not to be with your child when you are used to having them there every night. I have been there--not being able to talk to my kids or see them for weeks at a time for my work. However, I do think those periods of absence are really valuable for everyone. Assuming that your son's dad is not mistreating your son when they are together, it might be helpful if you can shift to a mental gear of focusing on what your son can get from having his father in his life and involved with him to some degree. What steps could you take to maximize that benefit and make your son's adjustment easier? Good luck with it!

On the one hand, I see your point.
But on the other hand - I see his point.
Being on the phone constantly with your son when he's spending time with his Dad just isn't right and it detracts from his visit.
Your son isn't constantly on the phone with his Dad when he's with you.
IF there was an emergency, sure your son should be able to call you.
But constant calling every day is too much.
He doesn't need to be constantly reminded that he's not with you and being in constant contact with him while he's away might make him more upset.
He KNOWS you love him - not talking to him for a few days doesn't change that.
Every 3-4 days sounds reasonable to me with the information I've got to go on so far.

He's allowing you to talk with your son every three or four days. That's communication. I think that counts as following the custody order. I don't believe that you should be expecting communication as often as you are, and I really hope that you're not communicating your anxiety about this to your child. You should be reassuring your son that HE doesn't need to speak with you daily. He should be able to spend as much time as possible with his father when he's with his father, and not worrying about whether it's time to call Mom.

And listen... his dad may not have been around the first five years but he DID choose to be in his child's life for whatever reason at that point. He's present and active and he's being a dad. He's not living up to YOUR standards, but you know what? He doesn't have to live up to your standards. He was a dead beat dad, now he's trying not to be.

Is the issue really so much that he was absent for five years? Or that he came back and has been around for four years? Are you just angry that you don't have your son all to yourself any more and that the boy's father isn't leaving the two of you alone completely again?

I don't think that your son't father is the one causing your son's anxiety. If you're badmouthing his father, stop. If you're pushing hard about the daily phone calls, stop. Be happy with every three days. That's reasonable. Encourage the visitation, but don't be visibly bitchy about it when you're not happy with the guy. In order to be a good mother, you need to foster their relationship.

It's not infringing on your relationship with your son. It's not a competition. Please consider counseling. I think that would help your son.

When children go to summer camp they are not allowed to phone home or receive calls from home because it makes them upset and homesick and they will be unable to enjoy their camp experience. It is very likely that your child is having a wonderful time with dad until he phones you and remembers how much he misses you. Every three or four days is likely more than enough.

I remember I went away during the summer with my now husband to see his family out of the U.S. My children were spending the time (visitation) with their father. I was a basket case the whole time, had provided them with phone cards, numbers, etc. and asked that they call. I didn't enjoy the trip,my visit, my husband,nothing...it was awful. No amount of lawyers or money or paperwork could force him to have the children call. They finally called the morning we were to come home.It's not going to help but that wasn't the first or last time he did it. He wanted to hurt me. If I look back he got exactly what he wanted. So I am telling you this,you're grieving in little bits and pieces each and everytime you get worried and angry. And if I could do it over, I would have made a conscious effort to enjoy my life more when they were away. All I could do was think about them the entire time and spoiled many of my own weekends and vacations. You are lucky in an age where there are computers and Facebook and soon your child will be able to contact you without his father breathing down his back all the time. In the meantime believe me I know how horrible this hurts, but try to find some pleasant times when he is gone. You are battling someone who sounds pretty vindictive..Don't give him your heart still. Use your time to write your child letters if you must letting him know how much you missed him.
Despite how mean my ex was to me and all the horrible things he did both of my sons still are in contact with him and my older one wants to care for him That truly was a surprise when I realized that they just simply love him no matter what evil things he did and no matter how hard I worked to provide for them and give them a good life. They are still trying to get their father's love. So that is why I say take care of you first because you don't know how all this will turn out.

you're not being crazy, and your ex is a horrible jerk.
but you're not helping either.
it may very well be that daily conversation or skyping with you, especially if your son is so attached to you and anxious, does indeed make it harder. and you don't want to do anything that makes it harder for your little boy. if indeed the dad is safe enough to be allowed to take him for 2 weeks, you not only have to suck it up and deal, but it's vital that you help your son deal too. and that means that YOU don't get stuck in a loop of arguing and angsting and agonizing over the daily phone calls. you smile and send your son off, strong and confident, and whatever screaming and biting a pillow you need to do, do it privately. clearly you and the ex are in a power struggle, and the loser is your son.
if you ease up the tension, it may well be that if you ask your ex lightly and courteously he may not dig in his heels, and may just go along with you. but when it's a battle out of the gate, as this surely seems to be, he's going to be difficult just to spite you. it's petty and nasty of him, but you're not going to change him. either go to court and get the visitation rescinded, or put your own for daily contact aside and help your son cope as best he can.
khairete
S.

Dad does sounds like a jerk. I'm sorry you have to go through this - it must be really difficult for you. If it had been my kids one of them would have been fine and would have dealt with it as well as he could have, but my daughter would have been in tears the entire time. Essentially his father is a stranger to him so of course he doesn't want to go. The things adults do to kids is just wrong. (Lesson for others - once you divorce you lose full control of what happens to your kids! keep that in mind when you evalute your future spouse / father of your children.)

Now, as another person said here - you could be making it worse. If you're calling a million times and your son sees his dad ignoring your calls a million times it can be anxiety producing for your son. He's thinking his trip to see his dad is producing emotional problems for you - and that's piling on top of how he feels about the trip himself... He may be afraid to even allow himself to have a nice time.

Now that he's with his dad for the next two weeks you have very little control over what happens. You need to pray over him for his physical well being and emotional health and for your peace. Chances are that his dad and dad's mom are happy to see your son and want to develop a good relationship with him. They probably are trying to plan some fun things tiogether. So when you do talk to your son encourage him - ask him positive questions about his dad and grandma. Tell him you hope he has fun and you look forward to hearing all about it when he gets home. Don't tell him you miss him - that will make him feel bad about perhaps having a good time.

For the future - I'd suggest you have him meet with a child psychologist so you can find out about how he realy feels about going to his see his dad. Remember - he's not going to tell you if he had a good time becuase he doesn't want to hurt you. Then follow the advice of this professional. If the 2 week visit on the other side of the country is too traumatic for your son go back to court. But at the very least get him a phone for the next visit. That way he can text you when he arrives, he can send you a good night text, etc. You can buy an inexpensive phone and jsut pay for the minutes or texts that you need for that period of time.

Just focus on getting through these two weeks - go get a pedicure or have dinner with a girlfriend, go for walks in the evening, etc. Get out of your usualy reoutine so you won't spend all your time missing your boy.

What I think you should do when he comes back though is to have another adult he trusts ask him about his time with dad. He's not going to tell you he had a good time if he thinks it will be upsetting to you.

I totally agree with "B". I think every 3 or 4 days is enough.

Your son is 9. He can also ask for a phone to call you or you can provide a simple pay as you go cell phone for him to contact you. I'm sorry that this is happening, and I would discuss it further with the therapist.

I would buy my son a phone that you pay for that you can send with him so he can text you.

Try not to call your ex too many times so when you do call, he will hopefully answer & not hang up on you.

Why does he cry when he has to go to his dad's? Is his dad mean to him? Is someone else there mean to him? Is it just that he misses you?

Always put little notes in his luggage that tell him you love him & for him to have fun!!!

Continue to go to counseling if you can. For you & appts for him to go alone.

I will say this.

Sometimes getting to talk to mom brings it all up again and again. He needs to go to dad's house and not talk to you every day. He will keep this cycle going and going and going.

I see this in so many cases when a parent....coddles, babies, gives a LOT of attention to a kid over something they'd already be over if the parent hadn't kept it going by their own actions.

In child care it's the parents that won't LEAVE that keeps their kid from adjusting to child care. Those parents who don't just drop their kiddo off and leave that sit with them and hold them and hug them and more. They are feeding that kiddo's need for attention and they are getting it in heaps and heaps. The parents that bring in a crying kiddo but drop them off and leave have kids that adjust to being there in a day or two. The other parents who don't cut the apron strings have kids who don't adjust and do well in many situations. The parents actions make the situation worse. That's all I'm saying. Your actions are making this worse for your kiddo.

IF IF IF kiddo was having a normal visit there is NOTHING wrong with talking to him occasionally when he's at dad's house. BUT you have to let dad have his visitation time.

"In our paperwork it states that we are to provide communication with our child as well as private conversations."

This is all I need to read. Begin keeping a log of dates/times of attempted contact with your son. Turn it in to your attorney if your Ex is violating the terms of the agreement.

But, you do need to exercise restraint in the phone calls. Ask your Ex when is a good time each day to talk to your son - before bedtime, at breakfast - whatever. Offer ways to work with him and their schedule together. Do not call a million times - that is, or course, going to aggravate your Ex - it would aggravate anyone - and make him churlish and nast(ier).

Another thought, can you speak with the Grandmother that they are staying with? Maybe she can help you schedule a regular time to speak with your son while he is there.

Your son may be picking up on your anxiety about these visits. Please do you best to stay calm and positive.

Good Luck

Im sorry to say that I disagree with everyone here so far. Trust your mama instincts. There is a reason that it makes you nervous not to hear from your son, there is a reason he is anxious before leaving and a reason that he cries when leaving you. Kids are extremely perceptive and you need to trust your childs instincts too. He wouldn't be that upset for nothing. If everything was all roses and chocolate bars at his fathers he might be upset to leave you but it wouldn't be this anxiety provoking. If he cries for you at night, a caring and loving father would put the childs needs first and at least let him talk to you every night before bedtime to say good night.

What you said is important about the fact that the father doesn't pick him up if he's sick of if he has better plans. This tells me the father is self centered. Im guessing that he wants your son around for his own selfish reasons. If the father was comfortable and had nothing to hide he would have no problem with a 5 minute call.

Also, it could be as simple as that the father ignores your son when he's there or he might not be very nice. Or there might be a cousin, aunt or uncle who are unkind to your son. You need to see a social worker to get to the root of whatever is stressing him so that he can have ways of coping. You don't your son to end up hating you for forcing him to see his father (which is not true but thats how a child might see it).

You have to protect your son. Get a social worker or therapist and figure out whats best for him.

Hugs to you

My kids have spent the past few summers with their dad out of state. They are gone for two months. They are teenagers with their own phones, but we don't talk/text daily. It's generally every few days. I know they're busy and its their time with him. Its natural to pull away. It's only two weeks. Let him immerse in the experience and check in every few days. The less pressure you put on his dad, the more he may communicate with you. Do you ever send him pictures or anything like that? communication is a two-way street. Initiate with him what you would like to get back

You should get him a phone that you can contact him on. That way you don't have to go through his father. If that does not work the only other thing you can do is contact your attorney and see what can be done. I am sure he thinks that is often enough since he does not feel the need to call him when he's with you. Good luck!

I suggest you are driving yourself crazy over something you can not change at this time. You are also creating stress for your son. For your son's sake, back off and address this with his father when your son is not with him and will not know that you're talking about it.

I urge you to talk with your son's therapist to learn how you can effectively address this. This has become a power struggle with his father. No one wins in a power struggle. Your son loses the most.

Stop focusing on what he's done or not done in the past. It appears he wsnts to be involved with his son now. Do all you can to encourage thst involvement because it's best for your son.

Of course you're angry. Find a way to let go. The person you are hurting the most is your son. It is very important for him to have a relationship eith his father and that their relationship be as good as possible. I understand your concern. It's time to let go.

You have full legal custody but your son's father has a right to have his son without interference from you. I suggest he hasn't been involved as much as he should be because he has difficulty dealing with you. I am not saying you are wrong. I am saying that for your son's sake you need to find another way of working with his father.

I urge you to talk with a counselor so that you can deal with your feelings and learn a more effective way of dealing with your son's father.

The court ordered communication but it did not say you have the right to dictate how that communication takes place.

I suggest that if you were less demanding and showed a more "lets gind a way to make this work for both of us" attitude he would more likely be talking with you. Make this a win/win situation. It's lose/lose now. I know you want what's best for your son. What's best is when everyone wins.

If your son were a baby, I might say that it's great for him to hear each of your voices each day. At nine years old, unless he has other challenges, he is old enough to ask for you when he wants you. I know that it's hard, but you have to give his father room to parent him, and he can't do that if you are steadily in the background looking over his shoulder. By asking every day if he's okay, you're implying that he shouldn't be okay, that there's plenty reason for him not to be okay. That should come from him, not from you.

Is it possible that the father isn't more involved because he doesn't want to have to deal with you, with whatever your personality and attitude are when he steps in? It's no excuse, but it happens with a lot of fathers. Maybe because they don't necessarily feel the physical connection of having carried a child in the womb, they believe that if they just ride out the early years alone and jump in when the kids are older then they can skip all the mama drama. It's not a viable solution, but mothers really need to look at themselves as being part of that problem when bashing men for standing down. Even living in the same house with my son's father (my husband), I have to stand down and let him parent without my input.

So what that there's a legal document that allows it? Does it mandate it for every day? Without knowing the details, I would bet that it allows for your (plural) discretion, based on the needs of the child. Really, what if your son wanted you to hold him and rock him to sleep every night? How reasonable do you think that would be for you to go over and do that, even though your paperwork might allow for it? I would hope that you'd encourage (not dictate to) the father to go in and comfort him on his own so that his son can trust that comfort comes from each parent, not just you. That is the type of thing that is in the best interest of the child, especially at nine years old.

PS. SS's mom got him a cell phone when he was 11 or 12, because she thought that it would mean that she could talk to her son whenever she wanted. First, WE set the phone rules in OUR home, so he talked on his phone within those parameters. Second, it got to a point where she was calling us to complain that he wasn't picking up his phone. He didn't want to be connected to a phone all day and night, and he didn't want to talk to her every time she wanted to talk to him. She thought that she was being attentive to him. He came to think of her as being overbearing and needy and annoying. He's now 20, and they have a love-hate relationship because he feels bound and obligated to be in her presence, but he can only stand to be around her for so long.

I have a friend whose parents divorced when he was five years old. He is over 40 years old today and otherwise fully-functioning, but he cannot find the wings or the will to move out of his mother's house. When he does anything without her, she guilts him to the point of tears. HIS tears. When she goes on cruises or corporate functions, he's her date. It's always been the two of them, and any girlfriend he tries to have has to know that she will never come before his mother.

I'm not saying that this is your case. I'm just saying that sometimes these cases look similar to yours when the kid is nine. The above case was a gradual process that I don't think either saw coming. It was a series of choices over the years, of ownership of her son and denying his father the chance to parent him on his own terms.

Frankly, you don't need to talk to him every day. He only sees him every other weekend and on vacation. My husband gets his daughter every other weekend and her mom would call constantly. I mean really? We only get her a couple days and I don't think she NEEDS to talk to her for the 3 days she doesn't see her. My kids go to my ex's every other weekend and I don't call them at all. It's their time with their dad.

Your son is 9 so he is old enough to be told that he's going away on vacation with his dad so you probably won't get to talk to him very much but have a great time, you love him very much and will see him when he gets home.

Some things are really not worth fighting about. Ask your ex to text you when he gets off the plane so you know they are there safely and thank him for calling you every few days so you can check in. If you don't hound him about it he probably will willingly call you more often without you asking. Good luck.

HI there. I did not have time to read the responses, but from your update it was not good. I just wanted to tell you I don't think you're out of line and it made my heart hurt reading how you can't talk to your son everyday. I would be heartbroken in your shoes. I'm thinking of my divorced friends and they all talk to their kids everyday. Now our kids all getting old enough that they are starting to get their own phones because the moms are tired of dealing with dad as the middle man. I really have no advice,just wanted to let you know you're not out of line with your expectations and I see things from your point of view. Hang in there!