Can We Go on a Sister Cruise with Four of Five Sisters?

Sometimes you can mix people who are at different ages and different stages.
And sometimes you can't.
She's 19, depressed and doesn't have friends?
Seems to me like there are other things she needs help with - and a vacation wouldn't give her the most bang for her buck.
For the money it would take to spend on a cruise she could get a therapist.
You all feel she's a fifth wheel and I suspect she knows how you feel.

"... but we would all feel really bad if we didn't invite her." Yes, you would. So while it's fun to think of the 4 of you going off on a cruise together, it's not the right thing to do. Invite her or don't go. Sisterhood is more important than any cruise. But then, I think you already know that. All my best.

The right thing to do is to invite her. Not inviting her would just be mean and given she doesn't have other friends and is already depressed I think not inviting her would be devastating to her. Tell her the cost to go though. She might just conclude on her own now is not the right time for her. If that is the case, tell her you will do it again when she can afford it.

This is about boundaries and being honest. Arr you sure she expects to go?only talk about her going if she asks to go. Kindly tell her that the older sisters want to go by themselves. Then sympathize. Listen to her as she feels hurt or angry. If she's willing to have a discussion, talk about the reason. Leave your description of her personality out of it.

You have reasonable reasons to not take her. Play up the age and differences in life experiences, the lack of things in common, the need for you all to have a break from the routine of motherhood. Be kind, don't waver. Be sympathetic. Be careful to not get involved in her reasons to go. Just repeat that this trip is for the older sisters.

If your sister is not getting help for depression encourage her and her mother to get professional help. Have this discussion later. Her not going is not because she's depressed.

Making your sister happy is not your responsibility. Taking her on the cruise is not going to make her depression lessen. She will feel the difference in her life and yours. The best way to help her is to not take her. I also suggest that you will resent her if she goes. This would make your relationship with her difficult.

Talk about the cruise of the older sisters. Assume she's not wanting to go. Keep conversations light. Only have a discussion if she brings it up.

The cruise is expensive and a big deal. Doing things with her in or on other trips with the family is very different than a cruise.

Geez! I urge you to take care of yourselves!!!! If she goes, you will not be taking the cruise you want. It really is not our responsibility to not hurt feelings. Each of us, including your sister, is responsible for our own feelings. Why do you think you should sacrifice your happiness so you don't hurt her feelings. Everyone experiences hurt feelings. That's OK. She will deal with her feelings.

Would you let your 6 yo ride the bicycle in the street because his 12 yo sibling rides in the street? It's a fact of life that older children can do things the younger children can. She's 17. You're 30. There is a wide difference in age and experiences. You have your life. She has hers.

Has the family always protected her from experiencing hurt feelings? Does the family, frequently, do for her, allow her to participate just because she wants that. If so, she hasn't learned how to deal with having hurt feelings.

I understand not wanting to hurt her feelings. I've been there. I was depressed. I allowed my daughter to do things I really didn't want her to do so that I could have peace.

My philosophy was to always meet the parents and the children before my daughter could be at their house or spend time with them. She asked to go to a "friends" house and I said yes. She wss 12. She was raped.

I believe it's my responsibility to keep her safe. I failed! It's also my responsibility to take care of myself so that I will have the emotional stamina to be kind and firm when I believe it's best for both of us.

Your situation is different. It has similarity to yours, however. You don't want to take her because she is young and will cause your trip to be totally different than what you need and what you planned. You're sacrificing your happiness so she won't get her feelings hurt. If she's on the cruise, none of you, including her, will be happy. There will be tension. I suggest by taking her all of you lose. There should be a boundary between the older sisters and the young sister, based on the wide age difference. This is to be an adult cruise. 17 yo don't get to do the same things as the over 30 sisters. That is life!

Perhaps your sister, in part, is depressed because she lacks reasonable and clear boundaries. She doesn't know where she fits. People give in to her and she knows in some level that what she wants is inappropriate. A teen needs clear boundaries while she learns about herself and the world.

I hope you give some thought to this. I suggest you learn about co-dependancy. It's a situation in which we sacrifice ourselves to make others happy. A codependent's happiness depends on the happiness of someone else. What you wrote is that you're willing to sacrifice your own happiness so that sister won't have hurt feelings. Would you take your children on a romantic weekend with you spouse? Of course not. Your situation with your young sister is similar. Why would you take teen on your adult cruise?

Adults get to do different things than teens.

As someone with a much younger sibling as well, I can relate! You could choose a 21 and over or 25 and over cruise, that kind of solves it. Tell her that you all can't wait until she is old enough and you can all go again together. It is reasonable to want to go with just adults. Maybe you could arrange a day or weekend sisters trip close to home and include her? It sounds like she needs your support, but that doesn't mean you have to include her in this particular trip.

Reminds me of a Dear Amy letter. She said it well so here you go
Dear Amy: Every fall, my sister, cousins and a cousin’s sister-in-law have a weekend shopping excursion in our home city. We stay in a hotel, treat ourselves, shop for our children and go out for lunches and dinners. It is a great time to reconnect.

I have a sister “Wendy,” who we do not invite. She is offended to the point of tears when she finds we have not invited her. My two sisters and I are very close in age, but Wendy hasn’t been as close to this set of cousins as my sister and I have been through the years.

We are all married stay-at-home moms. Wendy is a divorced, working mom with one young child.

There are several reasons we do not include her. We know she doesn’t have very much money for such an outing. She also does not have many of the same interests as we do. Her life is quite different from ours. We’re not interested in what she has to talk about. She complains too much about her aches and pains, and claims to have some kind of neurological disease that some of us feel is more psychosomatic than real and which she uses to avoid getting up for church on Sundays.

She also complains about her ex-husband who left her for another woman, but everyone knows it takes “two to tango” and she is not without fault.

We’re all very active churchgoers, while she only sporadically attends services. Plain and simple, she does not really fit in with us anymore.

She takes it very personally, and last year even came over to my home unannounced crying about it, which upset my children and caused my husband to threaten to call the police if she did not leave.

Now she barely speaks to me and has told our relatives that I am a horrible person (even though I’ve helped her).

How can we get her to understand that she should perhaps find another set of friends whose lives and interests align more closely with hers? — Sad Sister

Dear Sad: First, let’s establish that I agree with your sister: You are a horrible person.

Obviously, you can do whatever you want and associate with — or exclude — whomever you want, but you don’t get to do this and also blame the person you are excluding for not “fitting in.”

The only way your sister would ever fit in would be for you to make room for her. You are unwilling to do that, and that is your choice. But her being upset is completely justified, and you’ll just have to live with that.

Perhaps this is something you could ponder from your church pew, because despite your regular attendance, you don’t seem to have learned much.

I haven't read the other posts yet, but I did read your SWH. I have to ask this: what are you going to do if she begs you all to pay for her trip? By inviting her, you are basically rubbing in her face that she can't afford it. But are you willing to split the cost of her trip 4 ways just to keep from hurting her feelings?

Honestly, life isn't always fair, and she has to learn that we have to wait in our lives for things we want. You women are older, have paid your dues in MANY ways, that she has not. There is nothing wrong with going on this trip without her.

What you DON'T have to do is post pictures on social media. You don't have to talk about your cruise. You can ask your husbands not to talk about it to family. You can make this a quiet affair. If she finds out, then you say, yes we went on a cruise together but knew you couldn't afford it and didn't want to rub that in your face, so we didn't tell you about it. DON'T apologize.

If you all always walk on eggshells around her just because she's socially awkward and has no friends, you aren't helping her. If she's depressed, tell her to get help. Sometimes a person needs a bit of a kick in the butt to get them to stop wallowing in self-pity and get the help they need. You cannot be the substitute for doctors/friends/co-workers, etc.

Please just go on this cruise yourselves. And brainstorm together about how you can get her to go get help when you get back. Perhaps an "intervention" of some kind might work...

I read this question last night and thought long and hard about it. I am also the youngest of a larger than average size family, deal with social anxiety, and have had my run ins with depression. So, with this POV, I will have to say, no I would not invite her.

Don't get me wrong, being left out SUCKS but, what is worse is a pity invite. When you are in that state of mind, you can spot a pity invite a mile away. You are not making her feel any better, you are making you feel better. And then being stuck on a boat with 1500 strangers when you are uncomfortable with strangers anyway? And then watching your sisters bond over experiences that you do not have, reinforcing how much you do not belong? Hell would be easier.

I would tell her that your husbands put together a mommy's week away (the right tick in the right ear will make this lie the truth) and that has made you realize how much you would like to spend some time with her as well. Focus on each of you spending a Saturday with her, doing something that you have in common. You both like bad horror movies? Binge watch all the Friday the 13ths. Share a sweet tooth? Go hunting the best fudge in town. Build your relationship with her one-on-one. This will do much more good than an uncomfortable week trying to find something all five of you have in common with out it looking like pity.

It's a tough situation. In so many ways, it makes sense to make it an "over 21" cruise since she won't be able to participate in a lot of things with you anyway. And there's the issue of not getting along, not having the money, having to get 2 rooms, etc. It does seem a shame to spend the money and have it compromised if not ruined by an insecure person who is still in her teens.

On the other hand, if you think she might connect with some 20-somethings on the trip and go do some fun things on her own and without the 4 of you, it could be a branching-out experience for her. If you invite her knowing she can't afford it though, you'll either have to chip in for her fare as well as the extra rooms, or she will likely resent you for inviting her knowing she couldn't go anyway.

What is she doing now? Is she in college, working, sitting around the house in her depression? Is there a way that you could all chip in to a bank account (even if you hold on to it for now) to give her a trip/cruise when she graduates or when she turns 21? It would be a way of including her in the future or giving her something unique to her age group while still preserving an "adult" cruise now. Surely she knows that you 4 are close - it may be hard for her enough as it is to watch you 4 get along and her bring things down.

And finally, is anything being done for her depression? Is she getting professional help, either medical or psychological? Does she need something like a life coach to help her get motivated? I think her issues are far worse than cruise/no cruise if she has no friends and only family. That's no way to live.

I remember many years ago when my ex-husband's family went cross country skiing together. I was not invited.. I have always hated the cold winter weather in Wisconsin .. they neglected to invite me because they 'knew' I wouldn't want to go. They were correct I didn't want to go but I DID want to feel included and ALLOWED to make my own decision. Almost 40 yrs ago and it still kinda stings because I didn't feel part of the family, I was the outsider and always treated as such.

Your sister is younger than all of you but she is still your sister and wants to feel included. She wants to be a part of the family and not feel like an outsider among her sisters. Invite her and maybe the 4 of you can each chip in and pay for her ticket. You can tell her it is an early Christmas gift but the real gift is feeling loved and included. She can say no if she doesn't want to go but you should give her the option.

Let me guess...she is your half sister. Most likely she and your brother are your half siblings are probably products of your dad's second marriage so you really don't like them. You keep referring to "their family" not "our family". You have probably never really cared for her and then this is just another example of it.

I don't know if you have ever been on a cruise ship and I doubt that you will go again in three to five years. Do you know how teeny tiny cruise ship cabins are. Last time I had a deluxe suite and we were bumping into each other. Invite her on this trip, the chances of you going again is pretty low. You will have to do two rooms regardless of her or not.

How sad.

It's this simple: If you do not invite her, this cruise could become a sore that festers for the rest of your lives as sisters. Ask her and give her the option to say yes or no; be prepared for being gracious and kind for the entire cruise if she does say yes, and be gracious if she says no (and try not to look massively relieved if she says no--she may be immature but she'll surely be able to read your relief if she says no and she can tell you're all glad about it).

You do need to ask her but you also all need to be utterly committed to paying her way if she says yes, without a syllable said about it. Get that commitment from every single sister before you ask younger sister. Get a commitment, also, to not a single word said about who's in what room with whom, since you do note that issue in your post. Get agreement in advance to equal division so there's zero carping among the four sisters about how "Susie didn't pay as much for Sally's trip as I did" or anything.

Frankly I'd ditch the whole cruise idea UNTIL she is older and you're all more comfortable with having her travel with you. And in the meantime, I'd arrange something like a simpler week-long holiday nearer everyone, and be clear that everyone can come and go as they like - so that younger sister has the "out" to come just for a few days and then get back to college or work or whatever she's doing. You and your other sisters get some older-sister time together, she gets some all-sister time with you.

This may seem "mean" to you but let's be frank: Do you really think you are all going to do a cruise now and then do another one with all five of you again in a few years? Isn't it likely that by then, the older sisters will be dealing with kids' activities or otherwise too busy again? Dangling that in front of younger sister now as she sees you four going off on a cruise without her -- well, that would be dangling a promise that seems pretty unlikely.

She'll either be all excited about the idea of a cruise a few years from now, and then crushed if it doesn't happen, or she'll see through the idea of fobbing her off with a promise of a cruise later so she won't go this time. Don't risk either. Just invite her on this cruise as a full-on member of the family, immaturity and all, and be ready to pay whatever it takes. Or better yet, rearrange this whole idea for this year, and do something that is not so expensive, so far away, or such a big event.

I read all the answers before I responded because of your SWH comment and calling out "mean" people on the site.

Not one answer I read is considered "mean" in my book. You got a lot of good advice. Maybe it wasn't what you wanted to hear so you constitute it as "mean".

She's your sister. You know she has issues. The "right" thing to do is to give her the option of saying she wants to go or not. At her age and stage of life, she probably has no desire to hang out with 4 older sisters who have labeled her as you all have done.

It sounds like she needs a stable support system to help guide her into the next stage of her life. If her parents can't do that, I'd hope siblings would care for her and get her the guidance she needs.

You already knew the "right" answer when you posted. How would you feel if the tables were turned and you were the younger, less mature, labeled sibling?

I'm the youngest of four kids. I'm the one who is the nicest to my parents. I'm the one who complains the least about them. I'm the one they all did this to when I was in college - they all went away together, including my parents, but didn't invite me because "I couldn't afford to go" (didn't even ask). Go for it. She will totally understand why you're doing it. Whatever your stated reason is, you'll be showing her your true feelings. And don't worry - she'll totally get it. Especially since she's already depressed and doesn't have any friends.

Are you always this heartless?

(ETA - why bother asking "what is the right thing to do" when your conscience already has you predicting "we would all feel really bad if we didn't invite her"? Kind of disingenuous of you to pretend you don't know it's wrong. Pretty bitchy of all of you, in my book.)

ETA: Reading above, I can see the logic that maybe if you can afford it, you need to chip in and suck it up and help pay for her. Only you know your family dynamic. Veruca's situation of having the whole family, parents included, go on a cruise without her is horrendous. I can't imagine parents doing that to one child.

As a second option, I love Diane's idea of including her on a cruise when she graduates or turns 21.

Original: Unfortunately, I think you need to invite her. I completely understand, however, that it will probably work better without her.

However, the money aspect of it might be what prevents her from going this time. It's fair to ask her to pay for her own cruise. If you are all paying for your own cruise, and she can't pay for hers, then maybe that will be the factor that keeps her from going, because I understand how in this case the "fifth wheel" might be a hindering dynamic, especially because of the lodging situation.

Remember, not everyone gets to do things at all stages of life. Think of the younger sibling who doesn't get to drink or drive, because they aren't old enough yet. If your sister can't go on a cruise now, she will be able to do so once she's older and more established. There are some privileges that simply come with age.

I think since she's depressed, you should ask her. But it's fair for her to have to come up with her own funds (I say this as a parent who has had my daughter pay for most of her own things/entertainment since she was about 16, and she has very successfully done so.)

If your sister is depressed, perhaps it's because she doesn't have much of a life. It's time for her to get her life going, by going to college, joining social groups, getting a job, etc. The four of you cannot create her life for her.

I think your SWH changed things a bit. You made it sound, in your original post, like it was just the 5 of you. But then you added that you have brothers who are younger.

Like someone else asked, is your youngest sister (and maybe some of the brothers) a step sister or half-sister? My dh was one of 4 boys, and when they were all teens, their parents adopted 1 infant and 2 siblings who were very young. There's always been a bit of a bond between the 4 older boys that just wasn't there with the younger kids, although they celebrated holidays together, and they all consider themselves family. But the 4 boys have done things together like go out to the farm and go hunting for a couple of days, etc., and it's clear they aren't shunning the younger 3 kids; they just have a different kind of bond and sometimes they do "guy" things together.

If you 4 older sisters go on a cruise, that your husbands all want you to go on, I think it's ok. But I would keep it rather discreet (discreet, not hidden or secret) when you're with your youngest sister at future gatherings and on social media. It would be fine to say that you all got to relax, and how nice it was to not be woken by little kids needing another drink of water, and to get to sleep in, finally. Not "we had the most wonderful time we have EVER had and now the 4 of us are closer than we have EVER been". I'd tell her about the cruise in advance, not apologetically, but just mentioning that it's coming up. But I'd say that you 4 older sisters have been planning this for a time when - as you said - you're finally getting vacation time, or you're all finally not breast-feeding or pregnant. And talk with her about where she'd like to go when she turns 21 and ask her to start thinking about it. Maybe she doesn't want to go on a cruise, but would prefer to go to the beach or New Orleans or somewhere. Can you plan a spa day with her, soon, that's just "because", and not for a birthday?

The truth is, your sister IS younger, under 21, single, with no kids. A cruise with 4 moms in their 30s, minus their kids and husbands, plus one unmarried teenager, would be a little awkward at times. She may not be allowed into a casino, you couldn't just split a bottle of champagne, due to her age. When you're laying on those lounges, you'll probably talk about your kids, and future kitchen remodeling projects, and how expensive dance lessons are. That's normal and natural. Plus, if she's immature and socially awkward, you ladies might feel the need to look after her and worry about her if she wanders around the ship without you.

But I'd make sure, as an older sister and role-model and family member with potentially great influence on what seems like a troubled young girl, that she's getting more than just time with her sisters. Is someone seeing that she is getting therapy, or counseling, or encouragement to take some classes or get involved in some activity like exercise or a hobby? Is there a reason why she doesn't have friends? Perhaps she lives in a very rural area with very few people around. Are your parents actively trying to help her with her depression?

I think it's ok to go on your cruise. I originally thought it was just the 5 of you, but now you've mentioned brothers. You're the 4 oldest sisters with families of your own. But I'd gather your other older sisters and make sure your young sister is getting some help and not just remaining stagnant in her present state of friendlessness and depression.

tough situation.
my youngest sibling is considerably younger than the rest of us, and has a similar sort of duck-out-of-water feel. we love him very much, and he loves us, but i think it's hurtful for him that he doesn't have anything like the same well of memories and shared experiences that the rest of us do, and it's come out lately that he's very resentful and bitter about it.
there's no good answer to your situation. i get your desire to sink into the comfortable atmosphere you and your other sisters have together. but there's no good middle path. you either take that route and know for a fact that you're hurting the baby sister's feelings, or you invite her and resign yourself to a different sort of energy than the one you're craving.
is it mean to hope she herself bows out due to finances?
i hope that with a few more years under her belt she finds her social sea legs and develops her own network of friends.
khairete
S.

Same dynamic in my family except I am youngest and included. One of my middle siblings is not and also has depression.
It's like being friends with someone but you are also in a group that doesn't like that friend. It is very awkward and if you're a caring person I find it's just easier to be honest. I am very close to my sister with depression. We do things on our own and take trips together. She is not close with our other siblings.
I am guessing your sister may not want to go on your cruise. She likely very well knows she hasn't been included in the group all along and may not cherish you all as much as you think. My sister doesn't. She and I are tight but she could care less about getting together with the ones she doesn't care for. She is not going to change who she is to fit in. And she shouldn't.
Mind you she respects that I am close to them also. She would not hold it against me for taking trips to see them or with them.
You are not responsible for her as Marda says. But like Diane D said in her Dear Amy letter don't make her out to be awkward as an excuse for why you don't want to bring her. Don't make it seem like a fault and she would bring you all down. That part is the mean part. You just want to go with your older group don't make it about excluding her.
If it were me I'd ask her if your sisters were ok with it. And then if she came I wouldn't be responsible for her. I'd just do my own thing. You are not responsible for her.
But if you guys don't want to invite her, don't. But accept she likely will feel hurt. It's only natural.
It sounds deeper than a cruise. Maybe get to know her more one on one? I value my relationship with my sister because I take the time and she's worth it and she gives me back as much as I give her.
Good luck

I think you should invite her. Is it worth hurting her feelings over something like this? Seems pretty crappy to me.

My daughter is 16 and is ADD and Asperger's. So she is "socially awkward" and the psych said to always consider her 3 years younger than she really is. I understand that you don't have the best time when you are around her, but that is not reason enough to exclude her from family functions?

It's likely that she won't even WANT to go or be able to afford to go. I would ask her and leave it up to her. JMO. Good luck.

The right thing to do is to invite her. Tell her how much it will cost and let her decide if she wants to join or not. If she can afford it and does join you, have fun and enjoy the cruise with ALL your sisters. In your heart, you already know that this is the RIGHT thing to do. There is simply no way the 4 of you could go without hurting #5. She WILL be hurt and will remember being left out for the rest of her life. And every time she's invited to do something with you, in the back of her head, she'll be thinking "They don't really want me here, they just invited me because they feel sorry for me." And you don't want to do that to your sis, do you?

I think the right thing is to invite her. It is nearly always the right thing to err on the side of being inclusive rather than exclusive.

Maybe she can go, maybe she can't or doesn't want to. You don't need to worry about that; it is for your sister to decide for herself. Too often people get ahead of themselves worrying about how the invitee will respond to the invitation and then use this as justification for behaving unkindly toward someone. They tell themselves things like "she can't afford it" or "she wouldn't want to go anyway" to make themselve feel better about leaving someone out. It sounds like maybe that is what is going on here. Make room for her in your group if she wants to join you.

Sound like she "needs" her big sisters to help guide her in life. I don't think you should exclude her, that is very hurtful and will create a divide between all of you.

My youngest sister is 14 years younger then me, not married, kinda immature and has opposite beliefs/views then me, but I would never exclude her from anything. She is my sister and I love her, we work out our differences even if we argue about stuff.

I would invite her and let her decide. At 19, yes she is immature, but spending time with her older sisters could likely help with that. My younger sister is 6 years younger than I am and we have one sister two years older than I am...we are all very close. Both of my sisters are still having babies, so we couldn't do this now, but I would never exclude either of my sisters on purpose.

I understand what you're saying, but I would still offer it to her.

Here's what I would consider.

The theme of the cruise. If it appeals to older sisters younger sisters might not even want to go...

If it's a family sort of theme there will be activities for all ages of sisters.

If you pick a cruise line that appeals to her age group she might find friends to hand out with at the pool and not even see you guys except when you get on and off the ship.

Ships are huge. If you can get all your rooms in a row or even a suite with a couple of bedrooms you will likely only see each other a few minutes each day.

I can honestly say if I was invited to join in a cruise with my sister I would love to go BUT, BUT, I wouldn't ever want to spend more than a few hours per day with her. I'd want to have the freedom to go out on my own and explore/with a group of people and not alone in a foreign place to get lost or worse. But I would want time to do my own thing. Away from my sister.

I would like to join her for breakfast and dinner but be on my own for lunch. So I could stay by the pool or go climb a rock wall or go ice skating or go off ship on an adventure.

My point is this. If you do decide to invite her then make up a schedule where there is free time throughout the day and meet up time for everyone to join together and have a meal and reconnect.

You know you might actually enjoy getting to know her as an adult, see things from her perspective, and to just get to know HER.

Hope you guys have fun and enjoy each other.

There are all sorts of activities for all sorts of ages on those cruises. Invite her, you'll regret it if you don't. Imagine how you would feel being left out. As a side note, you might want to get her to see a therapist. She might need medications for her depression also. This probably needs to be done sooner rather than later. Have fun on your trip.

You don't have to invite her. She is a lot younger, and life isn't always fair. Just tell her that y'all are going on a "Mommy cruise" together to "get away from it all." You are right - you would have to get 2 rooms if she went. We are a family of 5, and families of 5 get screwed on cruise ships!! That extra cabin or family suite would cost a fortune! We would pay a minimum of 5 grand for the 5 of us to take a cruise! Like you said, she is in a different stage of life, and if you word it to her as a "Mommy cruise," hopefully she would understand and probably wouldn't care at all that her older mommy sisters are taking a cruise together. Don't make a big deal of it. The bigger deal of it you make, the worse it will be. Act casual about it. Invite her out to lunch - but not the cruise! Have fun!