Birthday Present for Estranged Daughter?

Send the gift with a note that says that even though they have not gotten to know each other that he still does think of her. She may come around later.

I would send the same amount of money as the older one got. Life will not be fair but parents should.

She probably feels sort of guilty for having any relationship with him with her other father staying by her - her whole life. Tough situation.

give the youger daughter an equal gift. find out from her sister what she would like. if you do not give her something this is just another way she can say that her father does not care. she is probably not ready to accept him yet, but if he gives up as before there will never be an reconcilation. he needs to keep trying and she will be watching and testing.this took a long time to come to this point and may take along time to fix. G.

Have him ask the older daughter how the younger would feel about it.
Personaly, I would send the gift regardless. Show her she is loved, even though she may still be working through some serious questions and anger in her heart. She may pretend to resent it, but deep inside she will know he loves her and when she is ready to let him in her life, she will feel confident he will be there for her.
To send to one and not the other, would only add fuel to her fire of anger and hurt, or worse yet, indifference.
Different people deal with hurt and questions in different ways. That doesn't mean we should hold off on loving them until they come around to our way of thinking. If she really doesn't appreciate getting gifts from him, let her tell him that, and then he can tell her that he will respect her wishes. Not because he doesn't love her, but because he DOES. So he is willing to wait on her.

Give her a present, even if she doesn't respond thats okay. Doing the right thing is never wrong and your husband may never have a relationship with the second daughter but he still needs to keep making an effort. She needs to know he cares about her and not just the first daughter. Even if she sends it back its still the right thing to do and I hope he continues to reach out to her. She can love two dads.
And I think he is blessed to have a wife who wants this for him.

People are so dense, the mom really thought she could erase him from their lives didn't she, well you can't do that and when you do there are always consequences, especially for the kids.

Also your children are their siblings and could have a wonderful relationship with them. But only if the parents are all adults!!!

I say he should buy the gift for her. He is still her father no matter if he spent no time or little time with her. Its only natural for the younger daugther not to have that bond like the older one does with her DAD. He can always send a card with a gift card to her fav store and a little note attached saying something like "even tho I havent been in your life I am still your DAD and please accept this gift, or something to that affect. It would be her choice if she accepts it or not, atleast he did his part in sending something to her for her birthday.

I agree, talk to the oldest, see what she likes, and try to get her a gift card or something to purchase something she likes. He can write a short note explaining everything to her, and he would like to get to know her etc... Just don't push it, that might push her away more. In time she will hopefully come around, especially from hearing about things from the older daughter... I hope it works out and he can get to know them both a lot better. Good Luck!!

The short answer, yes, give a gift. I'm not sure if your nice gift($) meant the gift was expensive or the gift was money, but, in the scheme of things, it doesn't matter. Being equal is not always being fair, anyway.

Your husband might consider something small, but nice, for example a locket, heart pendant, etc. At some point, hopefully in the very distant future, her dad will pass on. She will have something to say, my dad gave me that. He might consider a well thought out letter explaining the situation. He might want to tell her that he understands how she feels, hopes someday she will want more of a relationship and he's there when she's ready.

All he can do is TRY to treat her like the other daughter, her response is her responsiblity, not your husband's. He can invite her to coffee, send a Christmas card, cookies, etc. how she takes those gestures is up to her.

Your husband sounds like a great guy for just trying to reconnect. Good luck!

This mirrors my life. I was the youngest daughter who was not born yet when my parents divorced. My sister and I were eventually adopted by my mother's new husband several years later. The difference is that my real father never tried contact... well, with me anyway. His reasoning was that I never knew him, so he shouldn't worry about it. He did try to meet with my sister and my mother wouldn't have that.

Basically... if your husband is going to pursue a relationship with one daughter he needs to pursue one with the other--equally. Any gifts need to be equal, just like he would with the children he has with you.

I think definitely send her a nice gift with a card that says something like, "To the daughter I never got the chance to really be close to, but always wanted to." I think she is just waiting to see what he will do and probably wishing they were close and hurting some and holding a grudge beneath the surface and that would HAVE to bother her that in her eyes she would see that he favors the older. If he wants to be close to the younger one too, he HAS to give her a nice gift also with a sweet card. Whether she says it or not, underneath it would have to bother her. I think she has to be treated equal if he wants to bond with her. She'll never forget it if he doesn't. Have to be treated equally.

I think he should send a gift with a card and letter simply stating that he wanted to send the gift and that he hopes someday they will be able to have a father daughter relationship. My oldest son has a different father than the two younger ones. My husband tried to adopt but we could not find the father to have him sign the papers. We did not have the $$ to hire PI's and lawyers to go the other route. My sons father has never visited, acknowledged or sent b-days, holidays or anything else, let alone child support. I always thought my son was okay with the situation. My husband never treated any of them differently and when one of them said he is just my step brother my husband replied the only steps in this house are the ones that are going upstairs, we are all ONE FAMILY! Recently my oldest was upset because he was wondering if his bio dad gave any of his other kids gifts and acted as a parent to them. I don't know if he does or not. I think he should try to treat them equally from his side of the relationship. Maybe if he keeps knocking on the door she will finally open up and let him in. Good Luck.

I have absolutely ZERO experience with what you're talking about, so feel free to take this advice with a grain of salt, but I would think that a card with an invite for dinner (on your husband) would be appropriate. The older daughter is the one who was very receptive to your husband, so it makes sense that she would get a gift. They have a relationship.

My concern would be that if your husband just sent a card with $$, the younger daughter may feel that it's acceptable to just write your husband off and continue to use him as some sort of estranged bank.

Just my two rusty coppers.

Send her a card with a note that says that he's not expecting anything in return, just wanted her to know that he's thinking of her. Send her some cash or a gift card to a store that she likes (can find out from the older sister)along with the card.

My husband is in the same situation, except he is the child in this case. His father didn't really have anything to do with him until he was 19. When he came in town and contacted his older brother, who had been in contact with their father before then. They met in a resturaunt and talked. They didn't talk about the past, just the present (I was not there). We invited him to our wedding two years later and he and his new family came. That was my first time to see him. I couldn't believe how much my husband looked like his father. His mom and dad were okay with his father being there, so we did not make it a big deal. We now get a letter every now and then from his father's wife telling us how that side of the family is doing. They have met both of our daughters also (they drove up to see them when they were born and then we were in Texas and went to visit with them when they were 1 and 2). They live in Texas, so we don't go down hardly ever. He does have health issues and we do need to see him before something really bad happens.

This didn't happen over night though. It took years. But my husband's father was the one who made the first move in his case. I wouldn't say they have a wonderful relationship, that relationship is for his dad, but they do have a relationship.

Just pray that your husband's younger daughter's heart will be softened over time and will want to get to know him more in time. Just have your husband make the first move. Tell him to be consistant. If he sends a card to one daughter to do it for the other also, or don't send one at all. Again, give it time. Good Luck and God Bless.

I say DEFINATELY send her a gift...that is his daughter and whether she likes it or not its just what it is. She is obviously confused so him showing her that he cares and acknowledges her birthday will mean more to her than you will ever know. This is probably very difficult for her and just being there and showing her that he loves her and wants to treat them both the same will eventually make her sway his way. Right now she is in the years where she is confused on what to do. But time will help with that..just dont EVER let up and do more for the other daughter...it seems crucial that he tries to bond with her...she needs him more than anyone knows. I think it kinda stinks he just GAVE his rights away...That is HIS daughter and giving rights to another man was kind of like him saying "I want this daughter but not that one." So im sure in the household talks the guy that adopted her and the mother made comments like "he gave you away so obviously he didnt want you!" Showing her that you actually do care will mean alot.

My dad has never been around and I tell people I dont care. I know where he lives...he calls sometimes but I say I dont care...in all honesty...I wish he would just fly out here and spend a day with me or a weekend. Even know I say "he is no father!" I want more than anything to have a relationship with him. I'm mad at him, Yes! For distancing himself and not trying harder..but NO ONE KNOWS....how much I would love for him to be my dad! And I am 30...Im assuming the younger daughter is in her teens so I cant tell you how much she probably wants the same exact thing...but she has to warm up to the idea and small gifts and maybe some texts or anything to ease into the situation would be wonderful! Good luck...and even know she may not show her appreciation right away...she will soon!

I agree with the rest, send her a gift--but I feel she should also get an apology for him walking away from her. That may not be your husband's perspective, but I'll bet it's in her mind. Letting the other guy adopt her probably seemed like the best and easiest option at the time but now his daughter will have to sort through the feelings of not being wanted or not being good enough for her own dad. I don't say these things to be mean just trying to put a different perspective on the situation.

It is difficult to know what to say when you don't know how it will be heard. But, a well written letter expressing the purity of Dad's intentions, as well as his respectful acceptance of her wishes, could certainly accompany a nice gift. What Dad chooses to do is Dad's choice. How Daughter chooses to respond is Daughter's choice.

The gift could be sent with a note saying that he is sending this gift with no expectations and that she is free to keep it or give it to someone to whom it might bring happiness. He might add that this gift is sent with a pure intention and that he hopes she can either accept it or pass it along with the same spirit of kindness. At least this way the gift is not wasted and he has given her the gift of giving. I just cannot imagine anyone taking offense at such a gesture. If she does, this is her issue and her struggle.

He could also include a self addressed, stamped envelope with another note stating that if she feels he has disrespected her request to have no contact, would she please be so kind as to return this note in the envelope provided so he will know that he should not feel free to make such gestures in future, adding that he will be available to her should she ever change her mind or have need of him.

I like to lighten things as much as possible when dealing with precarious relationships. I would likely add at the end that, if this gesture has offended her, it will be but one more offense she can add to the list of offenses, which he is certain she will come to understand and forgive at some point in eternity. Perhaps not in this lifetime, but eventually.

I would also likely sign off with: 'Respectful regards', below it your husband's 'full name' (no daddy references), and below that something like 'Fellow Human and DNA Affiliate'.

I have found that when humor is used with caring respect and gentle persistence, it can encourage much healing and willingness to understand. But be careful. When humor lacks respect and sublety, it loses its charm.

First of all, it should be against the law to "sign away your kids." Most people are going to look at it as, trying to dodge child support. This is one of the long-term effects of selfish actions of that sort.
Their are many kids with step-parents, with whom have raised the kids most of their life. Men need to step up, and not let these mothers get away with parent alienation! Of course, it is much easier to walk away and not deal with the drama, but that doesn't make it right.

Maybe this would be an opportunity to open the door a little. Maybe have both of them over for dinner and give her a card and some $ as well. Or invite her to dinner somewhere. But I agree that she needs to get something for her birthday as well....in all fairness.

People spend to much time trying to second guess other people. If the two daughters live together then your husband should talk to "estranged daughter", and ask her what she wants as a gift since he gave the other daughter one.

Kids are smart. The youngest daughter doesn't want contact with your husband for several valid reasons, and I'm not sure forcing the issue is a good idea on his part. How old is this child? If she is 18 or older, as you have implied by the fact that she is "rooming" with her sister, then legally he can contact her. I'm just not thinking that morally he should. My oldest daughters' father "allowed" my husband to adopt her when it became very apparent he wasn't interested in being a father to her. That and he didn't want to pay child support, it was a condition of him allowing the adoption. He never contacted her, but it wasn't in the interest of being a good dad or letting her have a complete family unit.
She's 21 now, and really has no interest in meeting him, or receiving gifts from him. She knows who her father is, the man who raised her and took time to be her father.
I realize that this isn't necessarily what you want to hear about this situation, but I'm telling you the other side.
Don't be disappointed if she rejects your husband. He can make the gesture, but this may be a case of too little too late.

Very touchy situation! But I would send the card with a gift card to Target or a clothing store! Kids love that kind of stuff and maybe with a kind gesture him reaching out maybe they can create a bond or get to know each other!
If the oldest is about 19 the youngest is about 15 how are they roommates? Just had to ask!!!

Just have your husband be open to whatever response he gets!
Good or not so Good!! I will pray it is good!!!

T.

Send a card and keep the line of communication open. At least she knows he is trying. She is his child and will always be but she will only know him as a friend and that is better than not at all.

He should give her a gift just as he did the older child. What she does with it is up to her. Hopefully he will be able to have a relationship with her father after all of these years. It is sad when things like this happen and usually it is the child that feels the worse out of it. Parents no matter what there relationship should put away their differences and let the child have a relationship with both mom and dad. Of course there are times when having a relationship with either the mother or father would not benefit the child, like when the father is abusive or the mother is a crack addict. But that doesn't seem to be the case here. I would encourage him to have a relationship with both of them. To be honest with both of them and hopefully that will help.

My advice would be to do what's on his heart and send the younger daughter a gift. We are not held accountable for what others do, only for what we do. Your husband knows why this child feels the way she does and she really doesn't know the true story. When she finds out the truth she will grow to understand that sometimes things are not black and white; life is complicated and her mother has some "splaining" to do. In the meantime he should continue to try to be as positive a force as possible. I must say Mom, you are being very supportive and that is a star in your crown. And finally, (I am a Christian) let God be God in this situation.

Really tough situation. By reading your article, I think I would go ahead and send the daughter a small gift. She will either except it or not, however; you and your husband will feel better about doing the right thing, and know you tried! Best of luck.

has he talked to the older daughter about it? she'd have the best info about how her sister might take it...

My opinion, keep them even. Even though he has a relationship with the older one, give the same to the younger one as well.......maybe it will help her see that she is viewed by your husband, just as much as the older one. Or.....try and have your husband talk with the younger daughter, ask her what it is she would like or needs, show some interest to make it a personal gift or a well needed item. Good Luck

I think I would send her a gift, if she doesn't want it then she will send it back. But at least she will know that you thought of her. God bless!

I understand your dilema. I would ask his oldest daughter for advice. She would know if a present is wanted or not.
Good luck!

In my opinion he should send a card with a handwritten and heartfelt note about getting to know her on her terms and when she is ready and include the exact same gift as he did for his other daughter.

I have not known my dad ... ever. If we some how met up and formed a relationship, I would not expect anything, but would appreciate the gesture. Personally, I would say that he send her at least a card, definitely. HE could write something about the way things happened, or simply leave it as, "have a great birthday, maybe we can do lunch or a movie sometime"
A movie is a nice way to meet up, but tnot have the pressure to talk about things yet. I'm not sure... Just what I think :) I hope it goes well. REmember, you can only take responsibility for yourself. If he attempts a gift and she rejects it, that's her problem.

Ask the oldest what she likes. Get a gift card so the younger one can choose what she likes. Send it to the house address, so Mommy don't think he is going behind her back and trying to over ride the new "Dad"

I too feel he should send something to the younger daughter. I however am not a big fan of gift cards! They are very impersonal. Granted he does not know this daughter but I think that makes her need something a lot more meaningful from her DAD and a gift card is not it. But how do you buy a meaningful gift when you really do not know her? I would ask the older daughter advise defenitaly. The younger obviously has a lot of bottled up emotions and feelings and those will take forever to overcome. Best of luck, my prayers are with you!

Sending the gift to the younger daughter is the right thing to do regardless of how she reacts to it at this time. The only thing your husband controls is what he chooses to do, not how his daughter reacts. She is entitled to her reaction, and there will likely be no "happy ending" with this single gesture.

Over time, his consistentcy is the only hope to repairing the relationship. My two older sisters have a different biological dad, but were raised by my father. When they were teenagers, they wanted nothing to do with him. Their biological father persisted, and with time, maturity, and perspective, my sisters developed a relationship with him as adults.

Good luck. You are a wonderful wife and partner for helping him through this :)

He should talk to the older daughter about it.She would know what she likes dislikes.She would even be able to tell him how it would make her sister feel if he got her a gift or didn't.I think she would know her best and give him the best advice on that.

I think this could be easy: Have your husband meet the older daughter for lunch and have a heart to heart talk saying that he wants to give this b-Day card and gift (in$ide) to her sister but not sure how she will take it. Can she hand it to her sister and make sure she receives it well and how it was intended? And, yes, it would look bad if she didn't receive anything for her birthday.

If the older daughter knows how the father feels, then she should help her father out with this. He shouldn't expect miracles but receiving a gift is a good start.
Good Luck and God Bless!

I think he should send her a gift.

Good Morning Reneé, Like several other posters I agree to send at least a card with a gift card in it. Ask her Sister what she enjoy's and it will be well received. Clothing store "Old Navy" "Brass Buckle", shoe store etc.. It's hard to turn down a gift card to one of your fav places.

Maybe sometime down the road they can all 3 have a lunch date together, as he continues to bridge the gap.

God Bless you and I pray it all works out very well for everyone.
K.

My 13 year old's biological father has not seen him since he was approx 4 years old & he only saw him sporadically before that. (We split when he was two). If he were to try and make contact with him or send him gifts I would not discourage it. At my son's age & his "father's" inconsistency in the past I would worry about emotional damage of the ups and downs. This girl/woman seems to be old enough to handle her own decisions and judgements. So what I'm getting at is it's never too late to make an effort because everybody needs to know that they are loved by the people who "created" them. She may not warm up right away or ever, but he has to try because you won't know unless you do. As far as a gift (I don't know exactly what he gave the other) but there are a lot of options. 1 - talk to the older sister & find out a few details so he knows a little about her 2 - something heartfelt but isn't weighed with too many expectations
3 - a gift card to her favorite store is good, but you don't want it to look like you are trying to buy her affections 4 Can you go wrong with jewelry? (I don't know)
What about an inscribed music box with a heartfet song (might be too cheesy - IDK) Is there a concert or something similar she has been wanting to go to (ask the sister) he could buy her tickets for her & friend, just as hey I'm here, but there aren't any strings attached gesture..Good luck & it will take time

I definitely think he needs to send her something-- and not just money or a gift card. That would seem to me like he was trying to buy her affection. I think it would be appropriate for him to ask the older girl what the younger one would like (in terms of a nice gift). Then he can send a card with the gift explaining that he hopes she has a wonderful birthday and that he understands why she may not want to communicate with him, but if she ever DOES want to talk, he is always available to her. Even if she gives his gift away, in this case, the thought is truly what counts most.

The point shouldn't be to do it just because he did it for the other-- the point should be that he loves both of them and would like to get to know them both. Good luck to you and your family!

He should follow how he feels on the matter. If he makes the move, then the ball's in her court. If she chooses not to accept the card/gift that's her business.

My husband recieved a b-day card from his father a few years a go...He hadn't seen or heard from him in over 15 years...Getting the card actually made him mad (his situation was a little different). I had to do a lot of talking to get him to see that this was his father "trying" and he needed to at least be the bigger person and accept it...He wanted to put return to sender on it and stick it back in the mailbox...

Encourage your husband to follow his own heart, but be sure to be there for him if she refuses his gift. It sounds like he was trying to do what he thought was best for his children, but in the mother not letting him see them at all, she has no doubt made this situation really messy for all involved. Had she been honest and open and truthful from the beginning, they could have all been content with the situation. She has caused her girls to have to deal with unnecessary hurt. In time they may both grow to understand.

Good for your husband for trying to find a way to reconnect.

R.,
I would have him talk to his daughter first, then maybe his ex. I'm sure she realizes that he wants to be a part of her life and she could help their daughter understand this.
My husband never knew his father, his mother was pregnant with him, when his father left the family. His older siblings knew the father, but he remarried and moved out of state, they didn't see him much. The only thing my husband of saw of his father was a picture, his father never acknowledged the fact he had another son. His father died several years ago and I know that left even a bigger void in his heart. He never said so, but he's a tough Marine that wouldn't admit it!I think it's great that your husband wants to be in his daughters lives and he should keep trying with his younger daughter, eventually she will see how much he loves her.
Kudos to you for being so supportive of your husband and asking us for advice.
Take care,
V.

Call the oldest daughter and ask her what the youngest daughter likes. Maybe you could send her a gift card from her favorite clothing store. Or you could send her money TOO. :O)

Well i can understand he's delima, and it's hard when you have a blended family. But no matter what it doesn't stop you from being a parent no matter who the child may live with. Honestly i would say he needs to search his heart and when the answer comes to him and as long as he can rest easy with the decision that he's made that's all the matter's at this point. No one can ease the pass but you can build on the future.

If the younger daughter does not want to have anything to do with him, then the best thing to do is respect her wishes. She will think he is pushy when he was already told to not communicate with her. Let her make the first step. He did what he could before, he let his intensions be known that he was interested in seeing her.

If I were he I would definitely give the younger daughter a gift of similiar importance as the older one. My husband is in a similiar situation and i have to tell you there is a lot of pain, anger, resentment, and guilt on both sides. Your husband needs to do whatever he can to have a relationship with both of his daughters. (My husband's father does not, unfortunately.) Bend over backwards, just be respectful at all times. It will be hard, but it's the right thing to do. I think you, R., have to be commended for encouraging a healthy adult relationship between your husband and the daughters. You will reap the rewards, and possibly gain two special members for your family. Blessings to you. I will keep your family in our prayers.

i think he should definitely send her a gift. it would be wrong not to and she would feel even more left out. besides, it takes a pretty strong sense of pride to reject money. good luck!

Great advice from Kathy! I agree. Good luck!

Hi R.,

Thanks for posting this, it reminds all of us to be aware of the choices we make and how even the best choices at the time can mean an entirely different experience for our kids. If I understand the timeline, it sounds like the youngest is around 14, which is a difficult age anyway. As a girl, and a girl who missed out on knowing her daddy, I think one of the most generous things that your husband can do is to write her a letter. It may be healthy for him, and for her, if he is able to let her know the reasons that he made the decisions that he did and that it was not her fault that he was not there. It shouldn’t be a letter of excuses, but a letter that is focused primarily on letting her know that he was not absent because he didn’t love her, or because she wasn’t good enough – because those are the kinds of things kids think. It is very honorable that he is giving her the space she needs, and I definitely think that is the right thing to do. But maybe a letter can let him say the things he would want to say to her in person if he had the chance, to let her know that he truly thought he was doing the right thing and that he will always love her and always want to know her and that he has missed her all these years.

It might be incredibly beneficial for him to get that stuff out, and though she many read it in anger the first time or perhaps not even read for some time – I imagine, one day, it will become very important to her. I think, it if were my husband, I would help him through this process in writing a really loving, supportive, and gently honest letter. We know what it was like to be a 14 year old girl, and to be fragile, and to need our daddies – men don’t have that knowledge.

Also, maybe a small gift with the letter might be nice. Maybe her older sister can help him select something that she might like that would not be too large or seem forced. Something she can enjoy without thinking of him specifically when using, something emotionally safe for her to enjoy like finger nail polish or makeup. That may sound strange, perhaps I am a little too in tune with my inner 14 year old!

Good luck to all of you. I really feel for those two girls, and for your husband in making such difficult decisions. And I think it is wonderful that you are supporting him and helping him through this. I wish all of you good things and peaceful hearts.

D.

How about a savings bond. That is something she can appreciate when she's older and understands the situation better. And just a little fun thing too she can reject if she wants. The act is there even if she rejects the gift.

I think he should give her the same gift put in a card. But defitionly not a "daddy" card, just a generic card. I ask my husband's opinion on this one since he adopted our daughter when she was three so he sees the other side.

Good luck,
D.

No matter what the circumstances were /are with them he should not treat them differently. My spouse is going through the same exact thing, except the youngest is now talking to him. I explained no matter what they are adults with kids to treat them the same with gifts and keep reaching out for her, someday they may reconnect. she may be waiting to see if their is a difference in how he treats the two. Just encourage him to keep reaching out to her. She may have a bitter heart that will take time to come around. If she is very close to the adopted father that could be the problem she may feel a sense of betrayel if she sparks a relationship and that could be a whole new scenerio. Good Luck....

Hi R.,

I think that your husband should send her a handwritten card letting her know that he respects her feelings and that he would like a chance for them to get to know each other. Maybe he could offer to take her out for dinner for her birthday. Then they would have a chance to meet and visit. She possibly heard all sorts of negative things from her Mom about him, and since her Mom was pregnant when they got divorced she could feel abandoned (or that the divorce was her fault). If he makes the first move, then she has to be the one to decide if she wants to get to know her father.

He R.,
Been in a similar situation. He should send a card and gift, or even take it to her. If she refuses it, so be it, he tried. He should let her know that he is interested in persuing a father-daughter relationship, but if she's not wanting that, step back and let whatever happen. It took my husband's son many years to understand that it was his mother, not his father, that caused the separation. Now they talk through phone and email, and he has come out to visit us. When his daughter was born with problems, my huaband was right there for support. We are over 1000 miles separated.

Regardless of the past they are still his childdren and he needs to try to keep in touch with them sending them letters cards gifts money etc.Has he disowned them?I don't understand why he would let the new husband adopt his children and take his name.The youngest is hurt by all this and her only way to express herself is by her actions she may not understand what happened in the past or if she was lied to.

Dear R.
Good Morning, I think the dad should sent the other
daughter a card with money if thats what he gave the
older daughter this way the younger daughter has the
decission to open it or not that way it doesn't look
like he is favoring one over the other. Someone has to
make the first step. I hope this helps. B. K