Am I Being Manipulated by My Four-year-old?

She is learning what the word means - to her and to others. Why would she NOT think you hate her when you punish her? She would not do the reverse unless she were mad at you - probably mad enough that in her world that was hate. She can hate you for 2 minutes and then love you 3 minutes later. The word does not mean the same thing to her that it does to you.

It is also ok for her to hate you sometimes. She has big feelings and needs to know that is ok - that you will NOT stop loving her if she hates you. You should certainly set limits - it is ok for her to hate you, say she hates you but not to hit you. But I would NOT set her up to quash her negative feelings when she had them.

The few times my son (simmilar age) pulled this I said I am sorry you think that, and asked him to go to his room and think about why he thinks that way then we can talk. The first few times he had some sob story that I did not buy and once he realized that it did not work he stopped.

'I always love you! I don't always love some of your choices.".

Repeat as needed into their mid 20's.

She found your sore spot, Mom. Oh yeah, she knows it too. Now you have to just let that go. Next time she tries it, tell her "No, I love you. That's why I'm not going to allow you to act like "x" or do "x". That's what good moms do."

You have to show her that you are SO over it.

This laughing in your face and being defiant is actually much more of a problem than her asking you if you hate her. I'd put her in her room for this and pull all the stops out for this alone. To me, this is MUCH worse than her not listening to you. Four year olds are notorious for not listening.

As to your question about her really fearing that you hate her, the answer is of course not. She is trying to get her way. It's what kids do.

Dawn

Yes, but they are not being malicious - it's part of their control and seeing how far they can push things - usually. I have a 4.5 yo DD and he is tough as nails. We try not to react to her, but she IS disciplined for wrong-doings. Emotionally, she does try to get our goat and I've lost my temper more than once. I don't beat her or anything horrible, but she sure can push buttons! Girls are different. I have her and 3 boys. Oh the drama...and I am not one of those women who like drama...so this is very hard on myself and my husband. We are learning. ;)

Here's something that happened last night:

Kissing DD on MY way to bed at 11pm, I whisper, "I love you so much. Do you know that?"

DD: Shakes her head no and then replies, "I love the baby more than I love you."

Mom: Well, I love you and the baby the same. (Thinking - Thank God my ego wasn't damaged in childhood!)

Daddy follows in about a minute later to kiss the kids goodnight....

DD: I don't want you kissing me.

Dad: Why not?

DD: You gave me lots of kisses the other day, so I don't want you giving me kisses. I need you guys to give me a break for a couple days.

Oye vey! Good Luck! Keep breathing!

"I hate you" is very common among youngsters. It can mean "I am having a hard time sharing with you" or "I don't like that I was embarrassed by something I did that you scolded me for" or " This is hard work, being with you."

Kids say this to each other, and it's something interesting to 'try on'. If she got a great, reassuring answer from you the last time, it is likely that she may be trying to elicit that same answer when she gets into trouble.

I think the next time it comes up, stay very calm and ask her "well, what do you think? Do you think I hate you?" See what she says. Sometimes kids have to learn the hard lesson that being loved means that we still expect them to mind us and that they can't do what they want. One pat phrase I use with my son is "I love you, however, I don't like what's happening/how you are behaving/how you are speaking to me."

When he's horribly rude, I found that making him take a break is in order. When a snotty face of voice comes out when he's being corrected, I might tell him "I see you are not ready to listen. You may sit in this chair until I come back, and then we'll try it again." I may leave for a few minutes and let him take a little time out, then come back and check in and finish the correction/help him make amends. (This is different than how I handle grumbling, which is to ignore it. Sassing back needs to be stopped immediately.)

Overall, I tend to shy away from considering young children as being 'manipulative' in that deliberate, scheming way that teens and adults can be. I tend to think of it as kids trying to get their needs met. When we give them lots of attention and validation for asking a specific question, they are likely to ask it again. I would say that keep up your usual affection,and then treat those questions in a very matter-of-fact unemotional manner. The more neutral you can be, the less she many come back to that sort of 'fishing' question.

This is her way of turning the tables on you, it moves your focus from being upset with her to "oh honey, why would you say that ...".

My ten year old will say "oh I'm just so stupid..." and that really sets me off. I just tell him that is not going to work and you need to take resposibility for what you did wrong and correct it in the future.

Good Luck,

M

Yep, as others noted: Tell her with GREAT calmness, "I'm sorry you feel that way. I always love you, but I do not always love your choices." And then be sure to proceed with the discipline without delay.

At four they are definitely learning that what they say and do brings certain reactions, and they will test those reactions to see what they get from you.

I want to add this: You mention that you are wigged out by this, and your post shows it. I totally understand; as much as we all say we are the adults and we can deal with kids being kids, we do still get our feelings hurt even if our brains tell us this is a four-year-old talking and she doesn't mean it.

You can't predict when she might say this again (could be...never) and you also have many years ahead of you when she might say other things that wig you out or are hurtful. I think this is a good opportunity to decide that you can't control or predict what she'll say, but you can control your own reactions. You KNOW that your household isn't one of "hate" so rely on that knowledge: Try not to let your thoughts dwell on this to the point you're asking her and asking her what's wrong, or you're overcompensating for what you fear is something you're doing wrong with her. Not that you're doing either yet, but it could go there if you dwell on this too hard. Bear in mind -- you will indeed hear other such things over time and they are not, repeat, not reflections on you or her love for you or yours for her. They are a child testing out emotions and reactions.

She does not fear that you hate her. She just was seeing if saying that would change the discipline in that moment, or get some other reaction from you. This is normal. If you heard "do you hate me" frequently it would be cause for concern but if she is fine in every other way -- let it go.

I've got two girls, one is 6, one is 3 and they can BOTH manipulate very well thank you (or try to :) YES they are that smart and mature. YES your daughter registered your shock and awe at her "hate" question and it made her very fond of saying it. My four year old son likes that question right now too-not during discipline, but just because he loves to hear me say "No, sweety, no matter what I will always love you" more like a game. And yes, All my kids are told they are loved countless times per day and we are a light-hearted fun family.

BUT. That is successful because I have no tolerance for rudeness, defiance or manipulation. Unlike most of my friends who pride themselves on not being very strict, I AM very strict on those things. I do not use ineffective consequences because I want the bad behaviors nipped. This leaves much more time for kids to practice the NICE way to act, and most of all, I NEVER have to get angry because things don't reach that level. Actually at times when I have let things escalate and I am annoyed or yelling (my own fault for not acting sooner), I walk away and do not discipline at that time. When I regroup and come back with a calm and focused warning, the kids know the jig is up. They heed warnings, they know what they're consequence will be, and on the rare occasion they choose the consequence, they know it is because of their choice of action, not because of may anger. Therefore, they are confident in their own sense of right and wrong and rarely need more than verbal warnings. They are actually uncomfortable seeing peers act badly and defiantly (and most of their peers do act that way).

4 and 5 years old for girls can be GRISLY attitude-wise if you're lenient, and if they're difficult girls? Woah, look out. It gets really scary at 6, , 8 too..TEENS? forget it. 5 years old is almost to late to prevent bad teen years with formative habits. I have friends with daughters I can't even be around sometimes their daughters are so disrespectful, and these are loving, kind moms who have never been anything but nice to these "mean girls". Meanwhile, because I was "Strict" in formative years, my oldest daughter (6) has all kinds of freedom and extra privileges-she's never lost anything or had a time out- because I don't have to worry about her behavior. I actually haven't even had to discipline her in a couple of years past a very serious warning if she tries disrespect. We get to have fun together 99% of the time.

Laughing in your face? No, mom. Don't let her go there. A great book for toughening up but being calm and effective for this age is Back to Basics Discipline by Janet Campbell Matson.

I think "manipulative" is too strong of a term. She's only 4, so you don't need to ascribe motives to her actions -- she's just acting like a typical 4 year old.

You just need to follow through calmly with appropriate consequences, when necessary, without over-analyzing things.

All kids use the word "hate" in some context at least once at that age. It doesn't mean anything deep. "Of course not," is enough of an answer. She knows you love her, by the sounds of it.

Try not to lose your temper, it's not effective, and it's not warranted. Kids can be maddening, but remember your role is to be a guide.

You're assuming she really knows the horrid meaning of the word "hate" - but she's repeating what she's heard elsewhere (other kids, TV, passing someone in the store who said "I hate you" or even "I hate Cheerios". I think she's either trying to get a reaction from you (which she is) or she's just asking "Are you going to STAY mad at me?" I think you can reassure her with "Of course not, I love you and will always love you. I don't like when you say ____ and that is why you are in time out." I think it's asking a lot to expect her to explain "why she said something like that." She doesn't ascribe the power to the word "hate" that you do. Kids use it a lot. You would benefit from not assuming kids use "loaded words" the way adults do. And I agree it helps to examine our own insecurities, sometimes a nerve that gets touched because of something we said or heard as kids. That said, I wouldn't let a punishment get derailed by a whole bunch of talk - you take away a child's privilege for doing something bad, and then they get all your attention by starting a discussion or debate. It's best to leave them in time out or whatever you've chosen as a consequence, and say "we will talk about this later. For now, think about what you said and why it's not okay." Then walk away. That gives her time to think about her mistake, and gives you time to calm down and plan your response.

I would think that she's not "manipulating" you as much as she knows when she says that you give her a big response.

She sounds like my daughter, a wonderful person, C. and usually good but sometimes naughty and will laugh if you punish her.

I have learned that laughing is my daughter's way of coping with being reprimanded. She's not really saying "haha, what you're doing is so funny" and she's not being manipulative, but rather she's choosing not to confront what she's done.

I have learned to let some things be taught to her by natural consequence. Lessons seem to be remembered much better that way. I have learned not to give her "lectures" but rather to ask her questions. "Was what you did a good idea? What happened as a result? How can you fix it?"

My daughter has been repeating phrases that cause reactions since she was a little girl. Any phrase that causes some kind of reaction she LOVES to use. Sounds like your daughter discovered that if she asks "do you hate me?" that you will give her a big reaction.

So next time she asks, don't give a big reaction. Instead, say "Do you know what 'hate' means?" Let her answer. She will probably say "It means you don't like someone" or something to that effect. Then you say "Do you think that I hate you?" Let her answer. You'll know by her answer if she's toying with you or if she seriously thinks that you do.

By taking the emotion out of it, you can find out why she is asking. She may have a definition of hate that makes her think that you do hate her.

I have learned to take the emotion out of my response to things that my daughter says. It keeps her from repeating them just to get some kind of reaction, but I can address her true feelings as well and help her to understand them.

My daughter was 8 and she got reprimanded and then went on about how she wanted to DIE. Instead of giving a big reaction, we explored her feeling and we discovered that she didn't really want to die ;) She never tried saying anything like that again, but I'm sure if I had reacted big, we would have gotten her to state she wanted to die every time she was reprimanded!

Good luck!

IMHO, she saw the reaction you had to the first time she said it and labeled it her "ace in the hole." Yes, she is manipulating you.

The next time, I would just matter of factly tell her no, I actually love you very much and that's why I'm punishing you." and walk away. No further explanation; no gut-wrenching reaction. Very matter of fact and walk away. No, she does not think you hate her. She is tugging at the heart strings hoping you'll forget the punishment and gush all over her.

she is 4.5 - she understands exactly what she's doing and why.

I just read your SWH - she is playing you to the next step. I will just about bet you that you'll work on your end; she has no intention of doing anything differently.

first off, i really like you. i like your honesty and your approach to parenting.
no, i don't think she's manipulating you. she IS testing parameters and establishing in her mind just what the boundaries are and what they mean. parents tend to look at 'testing' as a bad thing. it's not. when a child prods parameters and finds them, the whole family benefits. and it sounds as if this is exactly what's going on.
the 'hate' thing is also an important boundary to explore, and clearly your daughter knows that you are a safe place in which to figure out this loaded term. many kids mull it over by using it. 'i hate you' is a common cry at this age, and it shocks and horrifies many parents. how nice that your child isn't going here, merely inquiring about it. responding calmly and confidently is what she needs. 'no, honey. 'hate' is a very strong word that i only use for terrible things that i want out of my life altogether. i get angry with you sometimes, but i always love you and could never hate you.'
you're doing fine, mama!
khairete
S.

does you child go to a day care or pre-school, she could be picking it up there and some children are smart enough to play you.

I haven't read the other responses, but yes, she could be manipulating you. Even my 2 year old does, you know, when they get this idea in their heads that they are so mad and going to show you who's the boss. Your daughter is doing it at a more advanced level.
I can completely relate. My son was the same way and I would lose my temper. He's 5 and it's already much better. I tried to remind myself "I can't control him, but I can control my reaction"- it made me remember to try and be calm when handling him and model proper anger management.
To make yourself feel better and know you are being clear, when she starts acting up you can start your response with something to her like, "Listen, I love you, but this behavior is making me very mad." Hopefully that will take her advantage away. Kids can sometimes confuse your reaction to their behavior with your feelings for them, so just try to separate the two clearly.

She sounds like every other 4 year old i know.

I do think emotional manipulation is part of 4. It's like they are playing with reality. My daughter started lying all the time --very unusual. She has stopped, but she was playing seriously with lies. She also played with the "hate" concept, even though that isn't a word or concept we use in this house.

They are running a program. It has very little to do with the home environment.

The laughing in the face is probably a nervous thing. My daughter used to do that. It made her uncomfortable to be yelled at or confronted so she would laugh. She is 25 and still does it. Maybe if you take a different approach or tone with her when she is not doing what she is told. She just wants to make sure after your upset with her you still love her. And of course you do. She is a little girl so just do what your doing. Good luck!

Yes, they can manipulate, but it doesn't mean she's being manipulative. Maybe she's feeling insecure.

My standard response is "even when I'm angry, I always love you. Nothing you could do would ever change that." Post punishment, we always have some discussion and make up.