5 Yr Old Telling Lies

I agree with every single word that Amy J posted. This is about building character. It's time for the behavior to stop.

you are creating a monster.
she's only 5. it's VERY important to teach children the importance of telling the truth, of course, and lies never flew in this house.
but you have to work with the child you have at the age she is, and not expect her to be a 30 year old. your hyper-focus on this issue has made it loom so large in her little mind that it's grown all out of proportion.
i'm sure she does in an abstract and very very basic sense understand the difference between 'real' and 'pretend'. but instead of working with her gently and appropriately in an ongoing fashion, you've made this a hill to die on. now she knows that every time you demand an 'honest' answer from her you're loaded for bear, and she has learned beautifully to arm herself against it. you've turned this from a basic but small issue that should be an ongoing life dialogue into a confrontational battleground. and you're relentlessly training your small warrior to take up arms against you.
i'd back right the hell off this for now. the most i'd do would be a smile and a 'thanks for being truthful with me' when i caught her being honest, but not gush about it, nor have a cow every time she defiantly tells a 'lie' (which is simply a small child exploring boundaries and testing, and having her natural explorations turned against her and creating defiance.)
stop asking her open-ended questions to which you know the answer. you're setting her up, and she knows and resents it.
unless you want to headbutt with your daughter for her entire life, stop being antagonistic right now.
khairete
S.

You mention: "We have taken lots of time, and every conversation to make sure she understands what a lie is and what the truth is." You note that you ask her "four or five times" if what she's saying is the truth.

There is a lot, a whole lot, of talking and discussing and questioning her, especially now that you suspect whatever she says. As B. notes in her very good post below: Your child is getting a lot of your attention over this.

Are you familiar with the idea of "negative attention"? That's where a child does things she knows you dislike, to get you to say no or talk over and over about, in this case lies, or to keep asking her over and over to do something. Adults think, "Kids want our positive attention, our praise and good words." And they do. But they absolutely will take our negative attention if that's what we're geared up to give them. She knows that you will give her attention if she lies. It isn't fun or interesting to the adult to have to interrogate her about the fruit cup in the trash but to her, it's engaging (and her doing it "so carelessly, like she doesn't care" is part of the game).

Think about it: You moved recently. This all began at the time of the move. Add it up. If she wasn't doing it previously and it started suddenly and happens a lot, there was probably a trigger -- the move, most likely. She may have felt during the packing and moving process that she didn't have anyone's full attention. She may miss the old place and old friends, if you moved her away from them. She might not be telling you that she disliked some aspect of the move, but maybe she did. So she's found a sure-fire way to get your attention, and even though it's negative attention -- it's still attention.

You are so focused on your worry that it might "get serious," as you put it, that you may be focusing too much on these lies. She wants a fruit cup? You sit with her while she eats it. Then you know what she did or didn't eat and it doesn't turn into a power struggle. But don't sit there watching her and saying ,"Eat it all, please" etc. Talk about other stuff, her favorite stories, her friends, whatever. The food goes down, you don't have to grill her and she got positive attention.

She has to do a chore? Re-read B's post! Please break down all directions into very specific tasks one at a time. "Clean up your room" or "Pick up your toys" sounds fine to an adult or older kid but at her age it's overwhelming. She doesn't know where to start with that so she doesn't start -- she blames her feet. "Pick up that Candyland game and put it in the toy box" is so much more achievable to her than "Clear everything off the floor." And no more than maybe two to three directions at a time, to start. This really does help -- B's right.

As for her feet, perhaps you're giving too much attention to them? Yes, she has a real foot issue and she knows it gets her attention, so next time she brings it up as an excuse, just say that if her foot hurts you're so sorry to hear it and she needs to get to bed right now (or the toy needs to disappear, or whatever). Do not say, you're fibbing and blaming your foot -- just act as if you believe her and very swiftly make her day extremely boring because "your foot hurts so you shouln't do anything, even play."

It sounds as if possibly you've been so concerned about the foot issue that she knows it's another sure-fire way to get you off the topic at hand (cleaning up, eating her food, whatever) and also to get you worried about her. More negative attention.

Do not talk and talk about the lies. Next time you catch her in one and she admits it, tell her very calmly and very sadly that you are so sorry she did not tell you the truth and you have to go out of the room for a while to think about it. That can really rock a kid, seeing a parent is disappointed and quiet, more than talking and talking. See if it works on her. I found that silently and sadly removing myself (with a promise that I'd be back but had to leave now to think about what child did) got my kid to straighten up much faster than raising my voice or discussing things we'd been over before.

Have you had a talk with her teacher about this? I would really tell the teacher and ask for his or her advice. Is she in kindergarten? Believe me, the teacher has seen and heard it all and might have some specific things to do and say to get past this attention-seeking phase. If you have a school counselor that's another great resource. Go by yourself or with your husband -- be frank and get ideas, but be open to the idea that maybe you're actually giving her too much attention for all this and it's not as grave as you fear it is. Don't haul her to the counselor or teacher over it, though; she might see that as being punished at school for something that's going on at home. That could confuse her and make her less likely to turn to her teacher or counselor for help at other times.

This is likely a normal phase. One thing you can change is stop setting her up to have the opportunity to lie to you.

For example, don't ask, "Did you eat the fruit?" Check first and make a statement, "You did not eat the fruit. You can't have another."

Instead of asking if she cleaned her room, just go look. Be more specific too. Don't even tell her to "pick up your toys" in general, because that is overwhelming for little kids. Say, "Put your stuffed animals in the toy bin." "Stick the crayons back in the box."

Don't ask her the same question 5 times trying to get a different answer, because you're actually enforcing the habit of lying. By having a discussion about it at every occasion you're giving her lots of attention for the undesirable behavior.

I wish you would give an example of her 'lies.'

At this age, I prefer to call it "make-believe." They are still pretty fanciful at 5. I think you should treat this lightly, by playing along a little, while letting her know subtly that you know it's not true.

"Hmm, so a little blue man came into your bedroom last night and messed up your bed? Oh, very interesting. Well I guess you'd better clean up his mess."

"Oh, so Billy stole your lunch so you weren't able to eat it? Hmm, too bad, I guess you had better learn to keep your lunch away from Billy so you won't get hungry."

Etc. No big deal.

Seems to me like she's getting a lot of attention for her tall tales.
She might be enjoying it.
If her feet hurting doesn't get her out of any work she'll stop using that excuse.

The best thing to do is probably not set her up to be caught in a lie.
Rather than 'Did you pick up your toys?' just tell her to put them away.

Break it down into simple commands 'pick up your toys' is too general.
Say "put your blocks in their box" and when that is done
"put your books on the shelf" and when that is done
"put your dolls in the toy box" etc.
If she comes up with reasons she can't do this, then the toys go into time out for a week - every time she tries it.

"Oh, so your feet hurt since you started playing with that toy and now you can't put it away? It must be that the toy is hurting your feet! We'd better get rid of the toys that cause your feet to hurt! Then your feet won't hurt anymore.".

You moved? You upset her routine, she's insecure, she needs reassurance. She's getting it, in abundance, by turning every simple thing (like "did you eat your fruit?") into a big production.

Take the drama out of it, give her attention for positive things, story time, snuggle time, etc. Take away the negative attention. Go back and read B's response and Mel R.'s answer. Make your instructions WAY simpler (not "pick up your toys" but much more specific and with very specific destinations such as a box for blocks and one for dolls and one for crafts). Drop the endless discussions - she's only 5.

Parenting classes can be very helpful in learning to understand different ages and developmental stages.

My guess is that she is insecure about this move, and she is doing anything in her power to keep you engaged with her. She may also be afraid of telling the truth and being punished - I was. My parents were big-time spankers and I would do ANYTHING to avoid being reprimanded, corrected or disciplined.

I meant to add (but it disappeared.. ,

Parents need to model the behaviors they expect from their children. In a child's eyes, their parents never make a mistake and never make poor choices. This is a huge burden on children. They think they have to always be perfect. You do not have to admit every little thing, but you can say, "Oh no! I forgot to buy milk at the store! I guess I will have to stop this fun thing I am doing and drive over to get some.". Or use it as a learning moment. "Oh no! I forgot the milk! I am so tired, do you think in the morning instead of milk with your breakfast, you could drink apple juice instead, just this one time? Thank you for being patient with me. "How can I remember next time?"

"Dad is going to be upset, I just broke his favorite mug. I did not do it on purpose, but I was carrying too many things in my hands at once. Help me remember to buy a new mug for him and remind me I need to tell him I broke this one, so he will not be looking for it."

"Dad called and apologized that he is running late. I am frustrated that he is not going to be on time, but I guess you can eat now and I will wait for him, but I am hungry now! Maybe I can eat my salad while you eat your meal and I will eat the rest of my dinner with him. I really wish he could be on time."

"I forgot to fold the clothes! I do not like wrinkled clothes. I need to figure out a way to remember that dried clothes have to be folded right away, help me think of a way to do this."

When you or dad make a mistake, make a poor choice, are running late.. etc.. Talk about it in front of your child. Explain what happened and how I used to lie a lot. The reason? My father was scary. He spanked, he yelled, it was pretty awful. I felt like if I could get away with a lie, I was better off than admitting the truth.

Once my parents divorced, my mother made me and my sister a promise. If we told her the truth, we would not get in trouble. She mights still be upset, hurt, disappointed, but not mad.

Sure enough, one day my sister and I were playing in the formal living room and broke a very fancy candy dish.. We were really scared. When my mom got home, I told her "Mama, we need to tell you something, we broke the crystal candy dish".

She asked us how it got broken and we told her the truth. We also told her we promised we would never play in there again (and we never did) . She told us "she was disappointed that we had broken the rules, but was proud of us for telling her the truth. " She also laughed and said she never cred for that ugly thing, but we still needed to follow the rules.

There was nothing worse to me, than upsetting or disappointing my mom. So this worked for me. My sister is the type of person that likes to test people, so she did gt caught lying a few times.. It was not pretty.. My mom can work the guilt and knows how to push our buttons..

Now

I have read only the first couple 9f paragraphs so if this doesn't fit disregard what I say. I suggest the lying is in part the result of moving. Add to that, children this age have a lot of difficulty knowing the difference between truth and fantasy. I suggest that she's feeling somewhat insecure and that when you insist directly that she tell the truth she senses your displeasure which adds to the feeling of anxiety over the many changes.

Consider this as an opportunity to patiently let her learn the difference between fantasy and truth. Make it easy for her to tell the truth. When all is calm quietly talk about the difference and why it's important to tell the truth. Emphasize that she will not be given a consequence for her actions when she tells the truth. Be patient. It takes time to learn a new way of thinking and responding.

My granddaughter at that age was lying about unimportant things. It took me awhile to understand why. When I thought in terms of fantasy and reality, I started with responding with is that real or do you wish it to be that way. When she replied it's real, I would say, I know you wish that were so and let it go. Eventually she did play the game, is it real or a fantasy.

When the truth is important I would be careful to not put her on the spot. Instead of saying "did you break that dish," I'd say "I know you broke the dish," and tell her what the consequence is. Often, I'd sympathize by telling her I knew she didn't mean to break it and ask her to be more careful.

Learning to be in this world is new to her. My goal for discipline is to teach and not to punish. When she purposely broke the dish I'd have her help me clean it up. This way there is a direct connection between cause and effect.

Sometimes I would respond to a lie by saying that would be fun. My granddaughter told me her aunt lives across the street from her school. I said that would be fun. We could go over right now and visit. But we have to go to the car because she's really not there. Sometimes she would try to convince me it was true. I would quietly say I know that's not true and let the matter drop. If she continued to argue I didn't say anything more. I would walk us to the car. I turned the conversation into a game letting her know I understood her wish but didn't accept the truth of it.

This way of handling lies takes understanding and patience. It means talking with the child in a non-threatening way. I don't need to convince her it's a lie. Instead, I'm teaching her the difference between the truth and a lie. I'm allowing her to figure it out for herself. When the truth is important I'm not giving her a chance to lie. What is important is for her to know I know the truth.

Two books that have helped me the most is How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and How To Listen so Kids Will Talk by Adele Faber and Elisabeth Mazlish.

The other is How to Discipline With Love and Logic. Love and Logic has information on line. The other may too but I haven't looked.

I just glanced through your post. Why ask her when you know the answer already. You know she didn't pick up her toys so say something like let's see how fast you can pick up your toys.:I think you can get it done by the time I count to 50. Start counting to get her started and resume counting when she's nearly finished. Finish the dishes or whatever while she's picking them up. Another way is to get her started and then leave her to finish. Once in awhile stay and help. Living together means helping each other.

Same with the fruit cup. "I see you've finished the fruit cup. I'm glad you liked it. You can have another." Or one is the limit. You can have another after dinner. Or the next day" whatever you decide. Don't expect a 5 yo to voluntarily forgo pleasure. Putting off pleasure is another learned skill.

As to her foot hurting, a response could be "nevertheless you need to pick up your toys now. No need to convince her of anything except to pick up her toys. When we respond to the excuse the focus is taken away from the goal of picking up her toys.

Children learn best when we set them up for success. When we stay away from arguments. No need to convince her of anything except she is to do as you asked. Positive discipline is a win/win for everyone.

What first came to mind was you just had a move. And now she's telling lies. Usually things connect up - if there's big a big change. How was she about the move? Good or stressed?

One of mine went through a very difficult stage when we moved. Had been the most excited. It took me a long time to realize it was just a brave face.

Or .. it's just a phase. My kids have lied to get out of things (like eating their lunch at school). Or hiding peas under napkins. Or practicing piano.

I can tell (they look like zombies, get that glazed look) so it doesn't happen very often, and my deal is they will get in less trouble if they come clean - compared to if I find out they've lied.

Sometimes it is for attention ... my friend's little girl was like this, and it became a habit. My friend just ignored it - acted like she didn't hear it and she stopped. Hers began when a new baby came along. So again, it was a change ... and she was insecure and acting out.

Not sure if that helps ... but I would focus more on what's behind the fibs and not so much on punishing her at this point. If she feels stressed about the move, punishing her (removing toys, etc.) won't help.

I agree - you can't let her get away with it, but I would say something like "I'll listen to you when you tell me what really happened - I'm not interested in fibs" and then don't listen to her if you know she's lying.

Good luck :)

Please take some parenting classes. Basic early childhood education will help you tremendously.

I remember reading a parenting book about this once and it said that you shouldn't ask the question if you don't want to be lied to. Kids this age tend to lie, since they don't understand how easy it is to check up on them. They think they can get away with something, but they aren't developmentally ready to understand that we are on to them. So, stop asking her questions and start checking her room to see if the toys are put away. If not, have her do it before the next thing, like dinner or story or whatever. If she's being dramatic about her leg hurting after she ran around for a while, then just be matter of fact. "Oh what a bummer, if your leg hurts that much I guess we can't go to the park today." My son used to complain that his legs were practically falling off when I asked him to go clean his room. It's normal for that age. I didn't buy into it and just told him it had to be cleaned before we could do something fun together. Or I'd say, "Race you upstairs" and his fun, competitive side would forget about being "hurt". Don't get her so much attention about lying and try to stop phrasing things into questions when you might be lied to. Instead of "did you brush your teeth?" it's, checking the toothbrush or teeth to see if the job is done. No need to ask. For the fruit cup, don't ask her before checking. Yes, more work for now, but it's a good way to avoid the lies. It's not possible to do this for everything all the time, but try to cut down on the questions as much as you can remember and it really helps.

I just remembered that we also used to have a sign for a lie. So, when the kids were telling a "story" they'd tug on their ear lobe. So, if we ever thought they were lying, I'd say, "is this a story..." and tug on my ear lobe to give them an out. Usually my son would smile and do the signal and fess up.

You realize that this is developmentally appropriate for this age, right?

All you do is ignore the silly stuff, and say, oh really, is that so, etc.

When she lies to protect herself, you tell her that telling the truth is more important. If her foot is hurt, empathize, and say you will wait with her until she feels well enough to clean up.

You are creating an issue out of a normal stage of development. Also, rewards are destructive and damaging. They work in the sort term, but they destroy internal motivation and create an external locus on control.

I suggest you read some dr. Laura markham.

I didn't have this issue but one day I was listening to Dr. Laura years ago discussing her child going through a lying stage.

Her remedy... She told him as she dropped him off at school that after school was ice cream. He was happy.

She picked him up from school that day, drove home instead. He asked about the promised ice cream. She said " I lied"

I'm not sure how much I agree with her but her message was well received!