Yelling over Each Other

Truthfully, I don't think there is anyway to prevent it. And as stressful as it is, I don't think you want to. These battles are an important part of their development. It's kind of like little lion cubs who learn to hunt by chasing and tackling each other at "play". Kids are learning important coping, negotiating and resolution skills even at this young of an age. If they are going to get along well with others as adults, they need to learn how to work things out for themselves. So my solution is to stand back and let it go, at least as much as possible.

My daughters are 7 1/2 and 4 1/2 and they get on each other all the time too. I try to stand back and let them go until I sense it is getting out of control or possibly violent (like the hitting you mentioned). That's when it's time to step in and let them know violence is no way to solve a problem. And that's about the time someone gets sent to the corner to think about what they did wrong. I will also break it up if it seems like it's gone on long enough, someone is crying uncontrollably or generally they are getting no where with the situation, and I give them stern but fair input on how to sort the matter out (and sometimes something has to be taken away as a punishment to reinforce the lesson). But up until then, I let them have at it, as hard as it is to do. Over time as their skills improve, the fights lessen and also last a shorter amount of time. And I find them getting to the point on their own where they apologize to each other and feel bad for upsetting the other person. It doesn't happen all the time yet...but we're getting there!

I don't try to resolve their arguments. I tell them that they need to work it out, and if they can't do it calmly, they both lose privledges.

What happens after that depends what the argument is about.

If it's over a toy - I don't care who had it first (because I often don't know who really started the argument) - the toy goes in time out.

If they start rough housing - pushing, etc - then they go to their separate rooms for 10 minutes.

This is a really hard time of year though - they are so wound up for Christmas at this age. It's going to take a lot of patience to get through the next week. :)

(On a side note, I think I tell my almost-4 year old "inside voice" about 10 times a day. He doesn't yell on purpose (it's not mad yelling), he's just very enthusiastic - but it's still hard on my ears. In any case, I think this is pretty common.)

J.

Have your son's hearing tested. He might be yelling because he can't hear himself.

Your daughter is reacting to him. Makes it tough because it becomes a vicious cycle.

Remind everyone INSIDE VOICES!!

Good luck!

Well I don't know who Dr. Ames is, but my son and daughter were so much fun at 4 and 6, AND they shared a room, AND we had an infant in the house.
Of course it wasn't all sunshine and rainbows.
Sometimes they yelled and fought, of course.
Mostly what worked for us was 1) taking away whatever it was they couldn't agree on or 2) separating them for a while.
Conflict resolution is a pretty big concept for young children.
They respond much better to very specific and consistent consequences.
"I see you both want to play with the hula hoop. If you can figure out how to play with it nicely, without yelling or fighting, you can keep it, otherwise it's going away."
Hitting should be dealt with immediately and swiftly.
You hit, you lose the toy AND you get separated from the family.
At this age you are still very much the coach and referee. It's up to YOU to impose consequences for their behavior, that IS how they learn, and you will be doing this for many, many more years. Parenting is a process, an often monotonous and repetitive process. There's just no getting around it. Even the most loving and close siblings fight from time to time, well into adulthood, so don't harbor any delusions of cutting this off immediately, it just ain't gonna happen!

You can probably chalk this up to holiday tension. Your idea of tossing them outside is not a bad idea. They need to get outside, play hard and tire themselves out. They may also find themselves playing together throwing snowballs or building a snow man.
I agree they may also be feeling left out since babies take so much time. It might help to remind them they were babies at one time and even though they don't remember it you gave them the same time and attention and now it's the new baby's turn.

I don't know about any kind of rule that 4 and 6 year olds don't get along with siblings... :/

But, what seems obvious to me is that they BOTH are suffering from needing some time with Mommy. Is the baby taking up time that you previously were able to spend with them more directly?

I'd be willing to bet that if you carve out 5 minutes during the day, twice a day, for each of them, separately, one on one, that a lot of this will stop. Sounds impossible, I know.

How old is the baby? Can you feed the baby a bottle while sitting on the sofa with a boy on each side and read them a book?
Can you feed the baby while sitting on the floor helping one of the boys build a tower out of legos? These things will go a loooong way.

--
Oh.. wanted to add something. It IS important that they learn negotiating skills and how to resolve conflicts, and siblings are the primary way to learn that. However, you do still need to monitor how that happens. Aside from potential violence (you have one who pushes and hits), other unhealthy things can happen. For example, my son is a "pleaser". Like my husband, he is very quick to apologize and try to get things back on an even keel. My daughter, however, is much like me, and will dig in her heels and not give an inch. So a pattern can develop that is ALWAYS the one apologizing trying to appease and make right, and the other one is ALWAYS refusing to even bother because they know the other one will eventually give in and they will get their way without having to give up anything. BOTH are unhealthy.
So when you notice a pattern like that (if you do, yours may not develop this particular pattern/style), then you do need to take some steps to intervene from time to time and point out what is a fair resolution and what isn't. Doesn't mean they have to do it your way, but it is good for them to hear that it isn't fair or right for one person to ALWAYS have to be the one who concedes.

Every single time he does it, you put him in his room. Every single time. No talking to him - just ushering him into his room. Give it 10 minutes. Then when you let him out, you talk about the problem, again. It's the only way to teach him, really...

get deadly silent.
and then lower your voice even more.
immediate consequences for the first one to over-ride the other, no matter the underlying offense.
if necessary, make everyone involved in the discussion whisper.
once you've got the yelling under control, i agree with the others who suggest it's Missing Mama problem. it's very, very hard to give the older kids one-on-one when you've got a new baby, but i'm betting that if you can manage it, many other problems will become more manageable.
good luck, mama!
khairete
S.

You have my sympathies. Screaming, hitting, pushing are not rare here @ all with 5 kids under 8.
I do your inclination of throwing them outside (meaning I drive them to camp). We do winter camp during the holidays though it's closed on Christmas, and summer camp in the summer. A day off of school creates WWWIII around here, so we use the camps.

Otherwise it'd be even more crazy here, and I don't want us living in a conflict zone. Once they've been out and about, it's easier later in the day. They've had lots of activity, etc.

Oh, and the baby has learned to sleep through wars.