Wine and Coffee for Toddlers?

CPS needs to be knocking on her door. Why on EARTH would anyone give alcohol to a child??? And kids need coffee for what? More energy?? I can't even give mine Koolaid without them bouncing off the walls!

Go and find that bottle of organic wine she givng to her toddler and smash her over the head with it. Maybe that will knock some sence into her. Organic or not alcohol is alcohol, alcohol kills brain cells.

It seems wrong to me, too. Giving alcohol to a minor is illegal. I don't care how organic/biodynamic the wine might be, I don't see anything on any holistic site recommending it for children.

OK...I am going to be the MOST stupid response you will get. I dont know anything about "organics", nor do I know anything about "organic wine"....I think that I am, or may possibly be, the ONLY mother who will ask....."why, in Hell, have you not stopped this or called Child Protective Services?" Why, in all thats holy, post a question, such as this? Alternative lifestyle? How about STUPID lifestlye....your friendship is a SMALL price to pay for the well being of this toddler....of course, as I have learned, this might just be a pot-stir on the web. If you are an actual "friend" and you know these miss-deeds...you are as guilty as the abusive mother.
Shame on the mother...and shame on you for knowing it and not reporting it. Its just as bad as that toddler smoking cigarettes in the web.....

In the US this is illegal. With that being said, I can understand where she is coming from. Red wine (as well as dark ales) have properties that sooth smooth muscles. If the child is having muscular issues, some forms of watered down wine can help and are considered more holistic then western medicine.

As far as the coffee goes...it has the same effect on children with ADD/ADHD as Ritalin...so what's the difference? Perhaps the child has been diagnosed with ADD/ADHD and rather than give him a drug, she plans on sticking with a holistic lifestyle and give him small amounts of coffee in the morning and afternoon.

Would I give my child wine? Probably not. Would I judge someone who does? Absolutely not. I wouldn't want to be judged for the things I do.

ETA: I wanted to address the sulphites. Organic wines have no added sulphites. No wine is sulphite free as sulphites are a natural product of the fermentation process. Organic wines have lower sulphites then those that aren't organic.

Are you serious!!! No way! I would NEVER give a toddler or any other child wine or coffee. What is she thinking? First of all it is illegal second God forbid if something happens and the Dr's find alcohol in that baby's system they can get her for endangering the welfare of a child.
My father in law gave my 1.5 year old daughter a sip of wine and I went bolistic. You DO NOT give MY child any kind of alcohol. Why do you think that the drinking age is 21? There is a reason for that. It sickens me to know that there are ppl out there like that.

Try looking up life.familyeducation.com/toddler/safety/42326.html
This has been bugging me and started looking up things. This is what I found out.

WHAT??? What is the purpose behind this? Most pediatricians recommend holding off on juices until after children are able to easily metabolize the acidity. Coffee is a stimulant that can have serious reactions in a little body and alcohol is a neuro-depressant. This is very dangerous and can result in dehydration as well. I am not a doctor, but somehow this seems like a very bad idea and possibly having long-term organ damage.

Seriously? Yikes is all I can say.

Never heard of it. If a child does not need it for their health, why give it to them at all?

Just like candy, why would a 1 year old need it, even if it was organic raw sugar?

Just to be the voice of reason, you didn't say anything about quantity. If you are using the term holistic correctly (which I doubt ... I suspect you truly mean "alternative"--I'm not being snide. Holistic is a term that's often bandied about in the wrong context), then the amounts of these things is probably miniscule.

Both of my children have had small sips of wine or beer. If they've asked if they could try it, we've said yes and given them a tiny sip. I think my son has asked once, my daughter maybe three times. It's not a big deal. They were curious. We're not heavy drinkers at all, but often have wine with dinner. Now that they've tried it, they're just not interested. A sip of wine once a year--dare I say, even once a month--isn't going to hurt any child.

I don't know how much your friend is giving her child, because again you didn't say. I suspect that it isn't much. Children naturally avoid things with bitter flavors.

One of the reasons we have such extraordinarily high rates of alcoholism among teens in this country is because our children are raised to believe alcohol is some mystical, amazing adult rite of passage.

As for coffee ... how is letting your child have coffee any different from letting them have soda? In my mind, a coke is much worse for a kid than coffee is. From what I read on-line, yes, it has more caffeine, but it also has less of other stuff that's horrible for all of us. Plenty of parents give their kids soda from a very young.

I am absolutely astounded at this situation and even more astounded that a few people have even tried to justify this, claiming to be the “voice of reason”. If it wasn’t so sad, it might be funny. The caffeine issue is one thing. Yes, plenty of people give their children sodas, but that doesn’t make it right. Didn’t you ever hear the saying about all your friends jumping off a bridge? To me the alcohol thing is entirely different. Yes, children will be curious, but these “parents” are sending a very dangerous message that alcohol is “harmless” for young children. Young people see enough advertising messages showing beautiful people enjoying life and alcohol. Then they see their parents saying, “Sure, kids! Here, have a drink! This stuff won’t hurt you!” The simple fact is, study after study has shown that when parents communicate very clearly with their children about the negative effects of alcohol, alcohol use in young people goes down. That’s not “mystical”, those are just the facts! And by “negative effects”, I am talking about things like: the negative effects on brain development; alcohol decreases your ability to pay attention and the effects are even worse for children; the younger a person is when they start drinking, the more likely they are to develop a problem with alcohol; every year 2000 people under 21 die in alcohol related car crashes; and the fact that alcohol is involved in nearly 50% of all teen suicides. I dare these so-called parents to rationalize their logic with the parent who has lost a child in a alcohol-related car crash, or one who has lost a child to suicide, or to the parents who faithfully go to al-anon every week, desparately trying to learn how to help their alcoholic child. Do you think for one minute that these parents would say, “Geee… If only I had exposed my child to alcohol sooner?!?” Uuhhhhh… NO! The reason kids are raised to believe alcohol is an “amazing adult rite of passage” is because their parents haven’t communicated with them at all… or worse, they’ve relayed the WRONG message. Oh, and then there are those pesky little things called LAWS. These parents are going to have a lot of fun rationalizing their logic when CPS shows up on their doorstep. I suspect that these “parents” are just people that have the renegade personality. We all know the type – immature and uneducated people who always want to give the world the middle finger and go against the flow.

Oh, sure! Toddlers can be unruly. Giving them some organic wine or organic coffee should be fine. My 13-month old daughter prefers red wine, but she'll only drink coffee grown in Hawaii. She's such a snob!

Of course, I'm joking. My advice is to not let her babysit for you. EVER.

C.
www.littlebitquirky.blogspot.com

I may get a bashing over the head for this: but i dont see anything wrong with giving a toddler a tiny bit of wine. And by tiny I mean licking the outside rim of the glass. Its not a big deal at all in my family, and there are 10 grandchildren and none of them are stupid or tiny. My son is in the 95th percentile at 18 months and already speaks 5-6 word sentances. We always have wine on the table at family dinners, its just how we've always done things. Of course i'm not promoting giving your child a sippy cup filled with wine, but a taste wont hurt them.

Alright angry moms: go ahead, verbally flog me :p

That is completely insane. Seriously. Totally weird.

I absolutely do not agree with giving a child, much less a young child, alcohol. Having watched an alcoholic in the depths of alcoholism, having to drink to live, is the most horrendous experience ever. The body develops a dependency on alcohol that is horrible. Most people in AA don't even have a clue what true alcoholism is about. There is nothing holistic about it, organic or not. That is drunk thinking, not holistic thinking. As far as caffeine, I don't think it is healthy for a child, but not quite as devastating as alcohol.

I think if CPS knew about the alcohol, there would be serious consequences, as well there should be. Education about alcohol withdrawal and the seriousness of it needs to happen.

Just because something is organic doesn't mean you should use it. Arsenic is organic, but it's also lethal.

Lynn is correct. It is illegal according to our legislators - other countries may not view it as a crime. I personally would NEVER do it because I see absolutely no benefit to it.

But, look at the internet phenomenon of the toddler in Indonesia. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4c_wI6kQyE
Millions of people have been entertained and horrified by this child and parent's actions.

Coffee I see as less of a problem. Not necessary, but certainly not as mindblowing as offering alcohol.

Coffee is sometimes given in place of stimulant medication for children with ADHD, but at 1 year you would never even have the first idea if your child had ADHD or not. While red wine may be helpful for adults, I would never consider giving it to a child. They have their whole lives for this stuff, don't understand why a parent would give these things to a child.

Are you sure she is holistic? Or maybe she's just "alternative". Now there is grain based "coffee" that is all natural and caffeine free. If she is giving her toddler that to drink, that should be fine. As for the wine, sulfite-free organic wine is definitely a healthier alternative to all the other types of wine that is on the market now day and maybe a sip of wine wouldn't not be a problem for a toddler but I wouldn't recommend allowing him to have more than just a sip unless it is also a non-alcoholic wine. Most people that I know, myself included, who take a more holistic or natural approach to our health and raising our kids do not consider the alcohol in wine and the caffeine in coffee to be healthy for adults or for toddlers.

I do not think I would give my toddlers wine, at least not more than a taste on my finger, but I have given them small amounts of coffee, mixed with milk to make a light coffee milk. It is a treat they get only every so often, and they love it.

Some people just don't deal with reality. I live in Canada and I am quite sure that if the authorities got wind of wine (alcohol) there would be charges laid and the Childrens Aid Society would be involved.

L.

As far as the alcohol goes:

No way would I give a one year old alcohol. It is not something a growing baby should have in their system. BUT, an older preteen/teen child, I could see. I have lived in another country and also had a very good friend who was an exchange student and neither country has the problem with underage drinking, drunk driving or alcoholism that we do here. In my friend's country it was "when they could see over the counter", and he could never understand why most the kids in our school went nuts over the weekend keg party every week. It isn't this taboo enticing thing for them, and they have a healthier approach to alcohol than we do. But again, that is for an older child, not a toddler. As for the organic thing, whatever. That sounds ridiculous and I see nothing that would be "holistic" about it. Yes, there are health benefits to red wine, but I am pretty sure those are for adults.

As for the caffeine-

I remember when I came home from a summer at my grandparents when my sister was 8 or so and she was drinking a mountain dew, and I about died. She had always been high strung and between her dyslexia and ADHD tendencies (undiagnosed, but my dad has it and it goes hand in hand with dyslexia), she had been strictly forbidden to drink caffeine. So what was she doing with a mountain dew?! Then my mom explained that the doctor had advised a soda's worth of caffeine a day to help calm her down. Caffeine is a legitimate alternative to meds for ADHD kids who just need a little help. And personally, I feel coffee is WAY better than soda. There is nothing in soda that is healthy, whereas coffee does have some health benefits. I seriously doubt that this is the case with your friend if she has been doing it since he was a year old, but you don't say how old he is now or how much she is giving him. But if I chose to let my son have some coffee when he was older (I don't know what age, but 2 1/2 is not old enough for me) I wouldn't want people getting judgemental about it when I am sure lots of them give thier kids sodas and happy meals, which I do not.

I've never heard of the wine thing, but coffee yes (to an extent). When I say "to an extent" I mean "children's coffee", coffee that is about 95% milk with a touch of coffee. My husband's grandmother used to give it to the grandkids and my sister would always sit with her babysitter's husband every morning at breakfast and have a "cup of children's coffee".

I haven't looked this up. I think it's ridiculous & can't imagine any rational argument for this.

What your friend is doing is not only inappropriate, it's illegal. It is illegal to give alcohol to a minor (especially a toddler). Giving alcohol to a child is not ethical, holistic or not. You should point this out to her. Is this an incident where she gave him/her a sip, or does it occur on a regular basis. If it's a normal pattern, I believe it's your obligation to report her to the police.

This obviously is a joke question.

Sorry this is so long, but my answer actually turned out be gray instead of black and white... and many points were brought up:

First, my opinion is not popular. I do let mine have TASTES of alcohol, but it wasn't until they were about 5, and only this year did I let my daughter (age 10) have her own serving of champagne (about 1/4 of an ounce) on New Year's Eve. She was trying to pretend she liked it because we liked it. She took one or two tastes and then left it on the kitchen counter. We explained there is nothing embarassing about not liking alcohol or finishing a drink and we were glad she decided not to drink it instead of forcing herself to drink it. As far as coffee, they could start having coffee-milk (75% milk, 25% coffe, and very sweet) at about 3. My 10 year old LOVES coffee and even knows how to brew it in an individual-serving French press. We don't drink coffee much, either, so we have these for not-so-everyday use and a 12-cup machine for company or big batches of hot tea. We limit how often she drinks it, but she now drinks it like an adult (coffee with cream and sugar). She loves flavored coffees. My son has tried it but doesn't like it. I don't offer it to them. My daughter requests the coffee but she only gets it once in a while. Hot tea, on the other hand, is a regular in our home amd she gets that more often. She is a whiz at brewing the perfect individual cup of tea and has it down to a science.

Organic or not, it doesn't make a difference because there is still alcohol in it. If she is letting him DRINK it and he drinks it like water or milk... ABSOLUTELY NOT ACCEPTABLE! He can become an alcoholic even though he is so young if he drinks on a regular basis. If he is just taking a tiny taste, still not for me, but he's not going to get the alcohol as much unless he's coming up every few minutes to "take a sip"... I allowed tastes starting about age 5...

As far as laws go: In Texas, if a PARENT is in the presence of their minor (under 21 for alcohol) then THE PARENT, no-one else, may give the child their own serving. If my child has a drink in their hand I MUST REMAIN IN THAT CHILD'S PRESENCE, meaning RIGHT THERE, not in another room. So if I choose to give my child a daquiri with even just a teaspoon of rum in it, that is my right. I can do this at a restaurant, as well, so long as *I* order the drink and the server hands it to or sets it in front of *ME*. I will not do this until my child is over the age of 17. If I leave the table the drink MUST be placed by MY PLATE and my child may NOT touch that drink AT ALL until I come back. Child Protective Services (CPS) cannot ticket me OR the establishment so long as WE ALL FOLLOW THE RULES. Allowing your child of any age under 21 to drink until drunk can be considered Child Endangerment and is just plain wrong. If ANY of my relatives gives my child a drink, it is Contributing To The Delinquency Of A Minor, even if I am on the premises and said it was okay. **I** have to be the one to hand it to them and I must stay with them.

The article about the mom at the fair said she gave her child a WHOLE BABY BOTTLE of wine. That's any where from EIGHT to TWELVE OUNCES depending on the bottle size. One adult serving of wine is ONLY FOUR OUNCES! She gave him between TWO and FOUR TIMES what is recommended for an ADULT! The one in Denver had been giving it to hers until he had built up a tolerance and was not comatose at a BAL of 0.16. In Texas the legal limit is 0.08 FOR AN ADULT! He was drinking on a regular basis and if he was sneaking the wine that means he was now an ALCOHOLIC and it was his parents' fault.

"Letting them drink at home" or "not letting them drink period" will not prevent them from drinking with their friends. Education is the best way to go.

We have had MANY discussions about alcohol use with our 10 and 7 year olds. My husband and I rarely drink. Right now we have a 2/3-full bottle of wine we opened last month in the fridge which I received as a gift in December. We have a couple of wine coolers which we bought a few months ago in there, too. We do have hard liqour in the house, but again... been there for over 6-10 months. We have discussed the difference between a sip (getting your lips wet for a taste), a drink (a mouthful or less), a serving, what different amounts do to people of different weights/drinking habits, and what the chemicals in alcohol do to the brain - brain cells, slowing down response time, making you think stupid ideas are great, etc. We have these discussions almost every time we have a drink and even when we're not if the subject comes up. I've been drunk twice in my life and refuse to go there again. One situation put me in danger with a friend's boyfriend (I was 17 here), the other was simply embarassing because I lost my dinner in a parking lot in front of other people (I was in my early 30's here). Since we don't drink often and we don't drink much when we do (normally one drink, rarely more than two), at home or otherwise, alcohol affects us easier. We have talked to our kids about Drinking & Driving. Several times when we were taking them to a babysitter because we were going to dinner, my husband and I were discussing who would get to drink and who would drive that night. All that the kids heard was "have a beer or something" and they JUMPED into the conversation! "Y'all can't BOTH drink! Who's gonna DRIVE? You'll crash and die!" We let them know that they only caught part of what we said and that we were deciding which one of us was drinking and which one of us driving.They know that if one drinks the other one should be the designated driver. We're not perfect, though. There have been occasions where we each had a drink.

We have allowed them to have tastes of our drinks and since we don't want it to be a Big Mystery or Something To Sneak. They're not interested AND they don't like it - for right now. Their taste buds will change, so we're reinforcing the rules now instead of waiting until they're fixing to go on their first date or their first party (I will never be ready for that). We have told them that if they want **A** drink, they can do it with us present but their friends will not be able to. Hopefully that will curb MOST (I'm not dumb enough to believe ALL) of the peer pressure they will feel. Hopefully, they will be strong enough to tell their friends that "they don't have to prove themselves, they can drink at home and already have." This won't keep them from drinking without us, but hopefully WE will influence them to not need to give in more than their friends will to go with the crowd. We have good communication right now. We have tried to instill in them that even if they or their friends DO drink (or anything else they are not supposed to do), then to call us no matter WHEN IT IS OR WHERE THEY ARE. We will bring everyone home if we need to. We would rather have to get up at 4 in the morning and drive to another town to pick them up than go to the hospital or morgue. My mind wants to make me believe it would be "just a sleepover that was boring or the girls argued so she wanted to come home", but my situation wasn't and my stepmom would've killed me if I had bothered her by waking her up to come help me, she would have let me know my situation was ALL my fault even though the guy was about 25-ish and had been "doctoring" my drinks with about half of each drink being alcohol (my so-called friend knew and didn't warn me or stop him, she went to bed instead and left me alone AFTER I couldn't stand up on my own) and she never would have let me forget "how stupid I was to have put myself in that situation". Yeah, I was told not to drink, but no one told me others would spike my drinks. If it happened to me it could happen to my kids, boy or girl...

wow, forgive me but she sounds like a real yahoo!

Growing up as kids we would have a teeny tiny bit of win in a very small glass on the holidays, other than that never.

Coffee on the other hand I have read can help with kids who have moderate to severe ADHD, other than that caffeine really isn't good for adults much less kids.

My grandmother used to give us coffee milk, which was a tiny bit of coffee, sugar and mostly milk but we never had real coffee. MOst kids don't like the taste of either.

I agree with you it's odd!

Indefensible. Holistic my a$$ she needs to pull it together and be a parent. If not call CPS. I don't care how long this person has been a friend the child's welfare trumps everything. This kind of negligence and stupidity makes me apoplectic. Judgemental? YOU BET. Parents EXIST to be judgmental..that is, make judgments all the time regarding their child's development and well being. A kid getting used to any alcohol, no matter how 'little' is given at this age will see it as normal. Stunts growth too. Screw 'they do it in europe' arguments. It's a BABY. Christ. I had to sound off about this. I would have unloaded on this 'friend' had I been in your situation and first heard her 'reasoning' for this. Caffeine is also not good for kids but the alcohol is particularly insane. Yeah, this one is cut and dried: she should STOP giving it in ANY amount and if she doesn't maybe the state can help her out with that. No room for gray here, sorry.

very odd. is the coffee decaf? i hope so. i cant imagine giving a toddler caffiene. sugar alone makes my son nuts. i would call a local holistics store and ask them about it or even drop by a health food store. she might have her info wrong. either way do whats right for your kids. i know ppl that give there babys sips from there wiskey and coke drinks...i would never.

My mom used to let me slurp the foam off her beer. It was nasty and I made a face everytime and it was just our little game. No actual alcohol was consumed. However, beer is an aquired taste and bot did I aquire it! We're German and I like to say we require a certain blood alcohol level to survive! All kidding aside, it may have planted a deep and abiding love of beer in me. Now as a mom, I'd rather give my kids gummiworms!

There are so many god things about wine and coffee, but that does not mean that I am going to give them to my toddler.

But, to each his own. SO long as the kids is not drunk...

Well...I'm ok with some wine at an older age. However, with a 1 year old their livers aren't properly functioning yet. I'm not even comfortable vaccinating at 1 year old, so wine, definitely not. As for coffee is better then soda argument, my kids are school agers and I only let them have soda on special occasions and even then it has NO caffeine (and usually no high fructose corn syrup.) I absolutely will not allow them to have coffee and I wasn't allowed to drink it until I was a teenager (same with caffeinated sodas.)

While it may be legal to give wine to your own child (I started drinking wine at about 10) I can't imagine that a judge would be ok with giving it to a toddler.

I don't know what to advise, though, as it's a hard thing when someone does something with their child you don't agree with but it's not exactly illegal.

Totally wrong. Is she trying to make his life hard? She must want her kid to be short and stupid. As far as "Americans" being uptight and making something mysterious and mystical, I say it is a health issue. Alcohol is bad for adults much less someone that weighs less than 100 lbs. I would say, never let that person watch your kids!

I believe in Europe they do give their children wine, but I'm not sure when they start. Maybe search Italy or French customs.

I can only imagine that this mother has some alterior motive here in giving her child wine, she probably wants to put the baby to sleep or something. Disgusting!

http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/may2000/niehs-15.htm

That's pretty weird if you ask me. Even if a little wine and coffee won't harm them, what's the point?

But what are you going to say to your friend about it?

oh my. well i know you already did the what happend part but I made sound like a jerk or something but is it legal in the US to give them wine? I know they do it in Italy all the time w/ meals and I am sure that actually helps make it not so exciting and maybe less of a thing when they grow up bc they wont want it as much whatever but it is not for my kids! omg! one of my bff's gives her kid her decaff coffee from Dunkin all the time and it makes me cring....I love her but it is still coffee.

this is a cultural thing. europeans and easterners have been doing this for centuries. granted, the wine was watered down considerably. it was the only safe thing to drink in biblical times, so they would mix their water and wine and everyone would drink it. then later on down the line, water became clean but many families still choose, even today, to allow their children to drink wine that has been prepared specifically for their kids. (watered down, or blended with juice)

americans have never done this, because the english never did it. this is mostly a southern european/middle eastern custom.

personally, i think its unsafe. toddlers' livers are not ready to digest this kind of pollutant.

if your friend is so holistic, present it to her from that angle and see what she says. 'holistic' covers a multitude of strange behavior, some of it is legit, some of it is not.

I believe giving a child alcohol is wrong and am astound that some moms on this site would think it's ok. I really don't care what they do in Europe or anywhere else, but in this country consuming alcohol under 21 is illegal. A sip once or twice in their childhood, ok, but giving him wine on a regular basis? I don't get it. I completely agree with you that it is wrong.

Ok, I am late, but just wanted to respond. The wine thing is really strange. I have just never heard of anything like that. On the coffee thing, I do give my son who will be three next month, "coffee milk". Basically I put a splash of coffee in his milk. I am nursing so my coffee is a combination of 1/2 caff and decaf, so the caffeine content is really low. But when I wasn't nursing, I would give him a splash of regular, but seriously it might have been like 1/2 an ounce if that. So if that is all it is, it might not be a big deal. My son is huge and smart, so don't think the coffee has slowed him down a bit;)

Updated

Ok, I am late, but just wanted to respond. The wine thing is really strange. I have just never heard of anything like that. On the coffee thing, I do give my son who will be three next month, "coffee milk". Basically I put a splash of coffee in his milk. I am nursing so my coffee is a combination of 1/2 caff and decaf, so the caffeine content is really low. But when I wasn't nursing, I would give him a splash of regular, but seriously it might have been like 1/2 an ounce if that. So if that is all it is, it might not be a big deal. My son is huge and smart, so don't think the coffee has slowed him down a bit;)

How much wine? How much coffee? My kids love to have a "tiny sip" and I mean TINY of my coffee in the morning and my wine at night-on the rare occasions I drink any. They know it's not for kids and they can't have their own or take big gulps. My daughter likes to scrunch up her face and say EW!!! My son seems to like the coffee. My parents did the same. We plan to do the European thing when they're in their teens (my parents didn't let us drink when we were teens, but we lived in Europe and my friends all had beer or wine at dinner and they weren't binge drinkers in college because alcohol wasn't new to them). I think it's harmless. Obviously if she's giving him whole sippy cups of wine or coffee, this would not be a good idea.