I watch my friend's 5 year old daughter once a week. On the whole, this is a great arrangement for all of us. The 5 year old and I get along well and she respects the rules I keep in my house. The problem is that I HATE the way she treats her mother--who is someone I care about deeply--and her mother's response to it. The little girl is a very, very bright kid who uses her smarts to get what she wants--meaning she is very manipulative. Her mom is single, over-stressed, hates confrontation of ANY kind, suffers from severe depression, and pretty much gives in to everything her 5 year old demands with this defeated air (and frequently tears, which doesn't seem to bother her daughter at all). I know it's their family and their business, my friend is not looking for advice or parenting suggestions, and there is nothing I can do besides be a good role model and uphold my own standards while the girl is with me. So how do I stop getting so upset over their unhealthy dynamic? The kid threw a spectacular fit today when her mom came to pick her up today over the stupidest little thing (after behaving perfectly for me all afternoon) and they left with her mom crying and apologizing to me and the five year old happily skipping off because she got EXACTLY WHAT SHE WANTED (like she always does, whether it's good for her or not) and me going crazy with how much I wish I could just change the entire situation. I've been trying not to stew over it all evening--and utterly failing. What do you do? How do you get over problems that upset you that you can't change? I try hard not to be a judgmental person and to do my best to love freely and remember that the rest is out of my hands... but I'm obviously not succeeding. If you have some thought process or something that helps--please pass it on!
Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. I'm especially glad to hear from a single mom who knows what my friend is going through. My friend is very aware of her failings as a parent--has read all the right books, attended parenting classes, and receives treatment for her depression (though most treatments, especially meds, have made the problem worse, not better--please be careful when suggesting things like Prozac; it is extremely harmful (induces extreme suicidality) in some people). We have talked about it and will continue to talk about it, but the bottom line is that she is trying her best--the heartbreak is that sometimes our best isn't enough. Her daughter would be a difficult child for ANYONE to raise, and with the two of them having such contrasting personalities, and the mother bearing so many burdens with so little support, a lot of things are not going to turn out the way any mother would want them to. It is so easy for me to watch the two of them interact and respond in a couple of unhelpful, negative ways: 1) judge my friend's parenting skills and think about all the things I do better; 2) judge the 5-year-old and think about how she is such an ungrateful, selfish, rude little thing and resent her for the way she hurts her already hurting mother. Do either of these reactions help ANYONE in ANY way? Of course not. They're terrible, destructive, negative feeling that will show through in my interactions with both mother and daughter and add unnecessary drama and damage. What I am looking for is powerful, positive replacement thoughts that build up rather than take down. Whether it's wise or not, I am emotionally involved, so I want that involvement to be positive. These are two wonderful people who love each other and me very much and are doing their best with what they have. They can do better, but I can also do better, and I've learned that the best place to start is by changing how I think.
If I were you and this was happening in my house, I would tell the little girl, who is starting to throw a fit that she must go elsewere to carry on like that. Firmly remind her that you do not tolerate whining and ptiching a fit and she may wait until she is home to carry on like this or she may go outside (backyard) and you will both wait until she is done.
The key question here: How close are you to the mom? Personally? Is she a dear friend with whom you would feel you could talk about this? If so, talk t to her (but NOT with any children present -- in fact, I'd take her out to lunch or for coffee without kids somehow because it sounds like she needs it). "Sally, your daughter is such a sweetheart with me and she's easy to watch. She respects my rules at home and listens to me. And I value that. I also value YOU as a person, and I know you're more than just a mom. So I wanted to tell you that I'm really troubled because while she's great during her time at our house, at pickups I feel like she suddenly changes -- there seems to be a lack of respect for you, and fussing to get what she wants. How can you and I work on that, so that the pickups are not just easier for her but for YOU? I care about you both." Make it about the mom and having her life be better. Praise the girl for what truly deserves praise. And focus for now just on the one concrete thing -- pickup time issues. Don't get into the girl's general manipulativeness and the fact mom caves in to her and clearly doesn't discipline -- you are out to help and support mom, and talking about other issues, though they so clearly exist, would make a depressed mom worse.
Before the talk, have some suggestions in mind, perhaps ideas about how you can give the kid a 15-minute, then 5-miinute heads-up: "Your mom will pick you up in 15 minutes..." "In five minutes...." "I expect you to get all the way to the car and into the car with both you and your mom smiling; if you can do that for me, (reward)." Anything concrete.
Is the mom in any counseling or therapy that you know of? It sounds as if she could use it if she is depressed (diagnosed or just your guess) and she also sounds very overwhelmed. That's why she gives in every time -- she is mentally exhausted by this child and giving in is easier. My heart breaks for her. If you are really close maybe this discussion can lead into your asking her if she is getting help or maybe even interested in seeing a counselor to talk about her daughter and herself.
I can say that letting her child go on like this will yield a child like my niece, who can be a total delight but who has grown up ruling the roost (despite her parents not being depressed, having two parents in the home, etc.). The result is a child who is so self-centered and rude to adults and other children. She's a popular girl with peers because she's very vivacious and funny, but when she decides she's bored with you, or wants something -- watch out. And she's 12 now, so the pattern unfortunately seems set.
After reading your post I feel the title could be changed from 'when your friend's kid's behavior makes you crazy' to 'when your friend's behavior towards her kid makes you crazy.'
Sounds like your issue is how your friend's behavior impacts her child.
I will be devil's advocate now. Some children in preschool/daycare put on their best behavior in front of the teacher and have a melt down once they are with their mom (their emotions are different from a grown up and we need to acknowledge that) because they are most comfortable with their mom vs the teacher (daycare lady).
Well my thoughts is, that if she is a dear friend, then you can speak to her about it.
You said she is not looking for parenting advice... so don't give advice. But give her, a heartfelt talk about it. In a kind way.
Or YOU, can, while the girl is with you, teach her things and attitudes.
I have friends with kids, and we all talk to each other's kids and we don't mind. The Mom does not mind. Because we are all friends, and we all know that each one of us, has really great tips and strengths with children, or other ideas.
I have seen kids like this. And hopefully your friend's daughter matures. Otherwise, she will continue to get older and get worse, perhaps.
And then, what if she then starts to act like that in school????? I have seen kids like that in school. (I work part time at my kids' school). And then the other classmates and Teachers, have a hard time with kids like this. Because they just do not respect anything or anyone.
Your friend, just gives in to her daughter... because she thinks that is easier. But in the long term, it will only make her daughter, more difficult.
Maybe you should talk to the girl, about treating her Mom nicer.
I know when I was in school and working and raising kids I didn't draw the line nearly as much as I should have. I knew my kids were at times out of control, I knew it was all my fault, I knew I should stand up and discipline. I simply did not have the energy.
Ask her if she would like help. Don't tell her she needs help, just ask. I know I would never have asked for help but I would have taken it if offered. Perhaps ask her are there rules you would like her to make her daughter follow when she is with you. That way you know what her rules are. Then if the daughter breaks them in front of you you can defend the mom without upsetting the mom that you are treading on her turf. Ya know, the sweet as pie, now sugar britches you know your mom doesn't allow that. Why don't you (insert something nice for mom) instead.
Oh my god! Do not tell the mom to get on meds! I would have taken all the energy I had left to lash out at anyone that would have told me that! If you really want to lose her as a friend tell her to get on meds!
Your friend is physically exhausted, not mentally. Meds, therapy won't help they will make it worse because then she has to add therapy to her already busy schedule. Any time I had to add anything, sleep was what was lost.
It sounds like her own personal issues/struggles are affecting her ability to be a good parent, which, in turn, is affecting her child negatively, as well. Honestly, it sounds like your friend needs help in more ways than one. If you are close enough to be trusted with her child, then I'd think you are close enough to address your concerns with her.
Added after your SWH: I understand what you are saying about changing the way you think, especially when you are including about the little girl. However, the fact remains that as an adult, you should still take that child "in hand", as Lynn very specifically explains, and NOT allow her to treat her mother this way in your presence. You never know, how YOU help model proper behavior in front of this little girl could prevent her from jumping off that cliff you are talking about. She has already been close to it, by your own admission.
Please discipline this child for her bad behavior toward her mom. That doesn't mean to not build her up. Building up is a totally different thing from disciplining, and both need to be used.
Original:
I think that perhaps in this circumstance I might take that little girl in hand FOR her mother. Say to her "In my house, you will not speak to ANYONE like this. Tomorrow you will lose "x" privilege because you talked ugly to your mother." At least she would wait til she gets home to start this stuff.
Can you ask the mom to go to counseling for her depression and her inability to handle her daughter? She really needs it!
Dawn
It sounds like maybe it's time for you to be a role model to your friend. It sounds like you two are quite open. Try to figure out a time to have a private, sit-down chat with her and express your feelings and concerns. Assure her that you don't want to give unwanted advice but you're hurt by seeing her get hurt unnecessarily.
First, tell yourself "Thank heavens it's not my kid."
As a preschool teacher and as a friend, I've been in this situation before. All I can do is let it go and hope that my friend or the parent will one day get some help. The child is five now, and eventually, this behavior may play out at school. Sometimes parents need a lot of people (unfortunately, usually teachers) to stick the problem in their face before they are willing to admit that their family needs help. This may or may not happen if the behavior is only directed at mom.
You can worry yourself sick about it, but ultimately, your friend is going to have to hit bottom in her parenting and get sick of it herself before she gets help. It's a bit like the Serenity Prayer-- understand that this is not a situation you can influence or change, be sad for your friend and accept that this is where she is in life.
And you are smart to stay out of it. I just wanted to tell you that. Because of my background and work, I do a lot of biting my tongue. Unless there was an issue at preschool, if a parent didn't ask me for advice, I didn't offer it because they aren't ready for it. So, when she's ready, be there for her. Perhaps there is a parent support center in town that you can refer her to if she's complaining-- otherwise, don't offer any suggestions, just be her friend.
I would bite my tongue about telling her directly.
She is treating her Mom like a "doormat". A child like this will have many issues of her own (most likely) later on.
I suggest that you tell her that you have signed up for a local parenting class and you would like her to join you. It may or may not happen.
The drawbacks to the "doormat" parent is that sometimes it's easier not to set limits, sometimes the parents doesn't know how to set limits or how to discipline, or they think "it" will just go away one day.
Children raised w/ this type of parent(s) are often very insecure, do not feel cooperation or belonging. The teen yrs are not usually pretty!
You are great role model. A child still needs the parent "active" as a parent!
I hope this helps!
Talk to the daughter and mom-and tell the little girl that if she is going to be a guest in your home , she is going to treat her mother with dignity and respect when her mother picks up and when they go to their home-do it at the beginning of the very next drop-off and every time after that. Tell the mom to get on some medication while she is trying to cope-like Prozac-it is a great management tool while you're trying to restructure your life-it gives you the strength to go forward objectively and constructively.
