When to Give Up?

You may want to look into "narcissistic personality disorder" or even "bipolar disorder" and see if youe hubby falls in any of these categories. Just an idea.

I wonder if a part of your difficulty is that you've been working on making marriage better and you're burned out. How would you feel if you stopped trying?

I suggest that you try either one or both of these two things. The first idea is to stop working on the marriage. Accept that your husband is the way he is and isn't going to change. Perhaps live side by side instead of trying to be a couple. Find ways to appreciate who he is, what he does and ignore the troubling aspects. Learn to side step arguments. Walk out of the room or out of the house when it looks like a fight is inevitable. I did this for a while and it helped. In fact, I would've stayed except that while I was gone for a short time moving my daughter to college, he didn't follow thru on something that we had spent time in therapy discussing and which he'd agreed to do. At the same time I discovered that I was happier living alone.

I did a trial separation. This is option number 2. I decided after 3 months away that I wouldn't move back. I married late in life and kept my own house after I moved a couple of states away to his house. We didn't have children together which made this much easier. Though a separation would be more complicated for you, it would help you know if being separated is what you want.

Living with someone who mostly irritates you is difficult but so is being a single mother. You have to decide which will make you the happiest. It is possible to live with someone who doesn't act like you'd like for the person to be with you. It's not the best thing but then neither is being a single mom ideal. Both take a lot of work.

Learning to get along with difficult people is a great skill to have. Is it possible that this is your next lesson? Even if you divorce you will still have to get along. Which way will help you and your son the most?

Are his behaviors that you are listing a reaction to the fact that you are trying to "get him" to change? I mean I'm not O. to tell a woman to turn the other cheek if she is being abused but if you are expecting him to "change" like as in "change ho he is so that he fits an ideal in your head that is clearly not him--that will never happen and it will make him angry, unsatisfied and nasty.
Why have you been "together for 7 years" and how long have you been married? Is there a difference between how you think a BF should act vs. how a husband should act?
Just something to think about.
Can you accept him for who he is. Is who he is so bad? Why did you marry him in the first place? Divorcing him is not going to make him *poof* disappear. There will be a long list of dealings with him over the life of your son--remember that.
If these traits have always been there....they may never magically disappear. Maybe they can lessen if he is willing to acknowledge an issue.

If you're asking... my suspicion is that you're either not there yet, or too afraid to take the plunge without approval. If you need approval, get out now, and get your spirit back. If you don't need approval, only time will tell. I'm going on 5 years now of sitting on the divorce fence (9 together). Same kind of situation. Eventually, something will shift the balance. That I know. But I have NO idea what it might be, or when it will happen, or which way off the fence I'll jump. But I do know it will be a jump... something I do on purpose... not a fall.

Well no one can tell you how or when, each person is different. I knew when my marriage was over, but tried for a few months after that and then we split. I guess the biggest thing that tipped me off was that I completely changed who I was into who he wanted me to be, which was sad. I can't tell you to stay or go, but i can tell you that a trial separation helped when I was with my ex-husband. We took 3 months apart, with very little contact, and it was tough, but worth it.
I used that time to look at myself, and who I really am (not who he wanted me to be), i got healthier mentally, physically and emotionally. I really took time to think about what it is I want in a relationship, and more. After that he came back and we were together for 2 months before I told him to leave. We went through a rough time of him breakiing into my house, and not wanting to sign papers, but if you ask him now about it, he even admits he knew it was over when we separated and he was just being a jerk.
Now on the other side of it, my best friend separated from her husband for almost 8 months. In fact we moved in together, and they shared custody of their kids. After that length of time, he went to therapy on his own, worked out some of his issues, she did the same, and they started "dating' again, and ended up wanting to stay married. They are still together. I fully believe they would be divorced if they hadn't separated and worked on some things.
Separation isn't for everyone, but it might be an option for you. Im sorry you're having a hard time. Big hugs, and good luck with your decision.

I've read a lot of books and heard a lot of therapists, been through a lot of bad marriage scenes with a lot of close friends, and the movie "Fireproof" has great examples of almost every type of problem and communication gap and what it really takes to prove things will change or not. It has the Christian angle, but no matter who you are it shows how to go outside of yourself and try everything, and you can see if you think your spouse would ever be willing or capable. My husband and I were blubbering on the floor when we watched it, and we only have "normal" problems.

At some point you do have to give up. Check out that movie if you haven't. See if you can have the hubs watch it. Use it as a gage for yourself if you think you can "BOTH" work on stuff or if it will always be a one way street and keep listening to your heart.

So often, only one person tries. You have to make the decision yourself in your own best time. Maybe he needs to be a friend and good father, but not your husband. SO sorry you're going through this, so many people do.

Just go...I was in a relationship years agos that was awefull. You only have one life....fill it to the fullest. dont wake up one day at 60 and ask, "what the heck was I thinking?".....

I stated on this site some time back that I was "dissed" by a SO....at the time, I thought I wouldnt recover....I said that one day that I would run into my husband...I did...we've been married almost 6 years....keep the faith....

i was in your same situation mama, my husband took my daughter when she was 6 months old and he raised her (shes not his daughter) we were together for 6 years and had a son together, his issues were too jelous always blaming me for his mistakes anger issues...u just knw when its right no matter what anyone else tells u deep inside ur heart will let you know when you cant take enough and its time to give up...good luck

oh and another thing i know u guys have a baby together dont let that influence your decision on staying with him as it will only hurt ur child if hes a good father he will be a good father with or without you around

Jilly, the best advise I have is to PRAY!! Pray for WISDOM! Pray for PEACE! (Don't pray for patience or God will give you trials to stretch and test your patience. Same for strength.)

I don't know what books others have suggested, but have you tried the Love Dare? Just a thought. Try to keep in mind you cannot control others, but you can control how you deal with them - your actions and reactions.

Blessings to you.

Sounds like you've evolved. It's not easy but you might have moved on, emotionally, already.

I am really sorry that things are hard right now. I liked what Rachel D said about the Love Dare book. I haven't read it, but I saw the movie Fireproof which was based on it. Great movie, if you have some time. I just wanted to encourage you to hang in there. You sound tired, like you have really tried and haven't seen any change. So maybe just take a breather. If nobody is cheating or beating, I think there is value in staying, especially for your son. A boy needs a father, even an imperfect one. I grew up without one, and let me tell you a girl needs a father too. I can't really tell from your post if you are in danger, if the anger management part includes him putting his hands on you...then get out for your safety and the safety of your son. If it is yelling and being an a$$, then maybe go have a Starbucks and read a book and give him space. I will pray for you and your family and my heart goes out to you. I believe marriage is a great blessing and is worth fighting for. I think you might be burned out so maybe just take some time to take care of yourself for a bit, like get your nails done, go out with the girls etc.... then pick up a great book on marriage and try some more. I love "The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands" when you're ready. Hang in there!!!!!

I am sorry you are unhappy and trying so hard. Personally, I have almost divorced my husband many times (yes, I am dysfunctional) because I had been to counselor after counselor and was miserable, but for even longer than you.

I would ask you, what kind of counselors are you going to? Like what are their views on marriage, what kind of people are they, male or female? Psychologists? Social workers? Clergy? Marriage and family counselors? I think there are a lot of bad counselors out there and a few really excellent ones. Books as well, some help and some just make you upset. I took an 8 week marriage course through a counselor at my church and the classes just made us fight even more. None of the material we studied were bad ideas, but they weren't at all helpful because we were both so burned out and sick of each other, etc. I think.

So for me, our best counselor was a male licensed psychologist because he connected with my husband. He helped in one aspect of our marriage. Honestly, God gave me people in my life, after I prayed with a really OPEN mind to what I should do, to tell me what I should do. I had a total stranger call me up and recommend a book to me on marriage. Her husband knew my husband professionally but God guided her to tell me what to do. Also what helped me was studying the effects of divorce on children and seriously not wanting that for my kids. And realizing that sometimes things look like they will never get better and then they do.

There are lots of people who have had miserable marriages that are now happily married. I think most people have really, really unhappy, yucky times in their marriages until they figure things out. You are burned out right now, so how about instead of working so hard on the marriage, focus yourself on some fun stuff other than the difficult stuff, and stop trying so hard. Remember that if you divorce, your life will not be any easier, you'll still have to deal with your husband because you have a child, and actually, your child's life would be hurt far more than yours or your husbands. Forever he would feel like he does not belong with either you or your husband. Divorce causes that permanently in kids, no matter why, so I didn't want to do that to them unless my husband was beating me, was a complete drunk/druggie, or was wildly cheating. Otherwise I think it is worth it to stay.

The book my friend recommended was "Fascinating Womanhood" by Helen Andelin. I was so desperate I actually tried it and it worked. It is definately not a mainstream book. It worked faster than the counseling or anything else. Hang in there!

I would go with your gut feeling. You obviously seem to not trust him, already know he cannot change course and stay that way. I do not know why so many people feel the need to push marriage until death. Many times people marry from situation, infatuation, or convenience... even love doesn't last forever.

In your heart, you know things will not change - so why force your son and yourself to deal with a man like that simply due to societal guilt that is highly misplaced?

I've been separated for almost 3 years now (divorce pending) but I took a series of courses that are Christian based (I don't know your faith) and I thought they were very helpful. I consider myself more spiritual then religious but they really helped me get more clarity. The courses are called Divorce Care, Boundaries and Safe People. I do not believe it would influence you to make a decision either way because they do talk about reconciliation as a possible outcome but I think it's helpful in understanding your relationships and how to improve them. I believe the courses are held throughout the country and you can find out if there are any near you:

http://www.divorcecare.org/

A rule of thumb for me is that if I am unsure I do nothing and pray for clarity.

Wishing you the best through a difficult time.

I grew up with an emotionally and physically abusive father (hit me once, but beat my mother for 20+ years). I hope it is not that bad for you. However, growing up walking on eggshells, being scared of a parent, and lacking joy in a home - it is not worth it to live with a parent.

It sounds like you have made a good effort. I also think it is great your husband whnt to couples counseling. Many men would not. Only you know if you can trust him to keep working hard and change.

I suggest that no matter wha tyou ultimately decide, you get things in order. Make a plan for living arrangements, school,, put some money aside - the problem with husbands with anger issues is he may react very angrily when you leave and stop giving you money or lock you out. See an attorney, and see your therapist or a new one independent of your husband. Make sure you have documented his behavior with you and your son, should he create custody problems.

ssEven if you decide not to leave him, "sitting with the decision" for awhile (pretending you are leaving) may be a good test of how you really feel about it. Maybe a seperation with an openess to reconcilliation if he will be good for the two of you. An ultimatum on his behavior and livign wihtout you for awhile might be the kick in the butt he really needs. Maybe you will be so happy away from him, it will tell you have done the right thing.

But it does sound like change is needed - either through divorce or radical behavioral change. Pleae do not stay if he continues to be emotionally abusive, threatening, and beligerent. You and your child do not deserve it nor is he being a good role model for you son. Good luck!

Jilly, I commend you for addressing and discussing an issue that many moms/wives usually keep mum about or go into denial over. And probably because many are worried about what other people will think. I too am a mom, of 2 beautiful girls, and had many of the same issues you are experiencing in your marriage. I noticed many red flags before we had children and thought that I could change him. But to my own disappointment, I think I was setting myself up for failure because I was expecting things that he just wasn't capable of. We married so young and many of the concerns I had came to the forefront as soon as we had our first child. And for the first time ever, we had an all out breakdown fight when my 1st daughter was only 9 months old, and it turned phyiscal.... and that was my breaking point. I decided then that I was not going to bring up my child into a miserable, unhealthy life. I knew that I could do it on my own, be a single mom. BUT, We did try for counceling and things got slightly better but nothing really improved and I was still living a life with someone I no longer knew and was sick of the constant let down. Insert the make-up sex here, AND...got pregnant which I was not planning for. BUT it was a blessing in disquise.....all of it! even through the rough patches, I absolutely believe I was in the relationship for a reason, to be the mom of those 2 beautiful souls that are my little girls.
You have to ask yourself, are you happy? How is the relationship affecting your child? I have been seperated now for over a year, and its the best thing we both agree could have happend. We are going through with a divorce, even though I don't have my mom's support, but we are so much happier than we were, and so are my girls. Every thing that happens in your household affects the children, it was VERY evident with my oldest daughter, in her behavior and her school work, it was unhealthy for her.

Don't worry about what people think. People judge all too quickly and so seldom do they take the time to stop and say, "I don't know what goes on behind closed doors" nor do they live in your shoes. You are the one who has to live with your decision. Life is too short, you only get one chance to live it, why live it in misery.

I wish you the best of luck.

Mom of 2 girls, 6yrs & 3yrs old.

The thing is, you will never get rid of him completely because you have a child together...If he is a pain in the butt now imagine how nasty he will get after a divorce, when he has nothing to lose anymore.

So weight your options, or maybe wait until your child is a little older and then you will be less tide up with chilcare and you can make your move...

I also like what Marda wrote to you.

I decided when I flushed my wedding rings it was over you will give up when you are sick and tired of being sick and tired one day you will just snap and you will have all you can take and aint going to take no more.start saving and getting your ducks in a row you are close and he is not going to change. when I dont talk to you for 3 days in a row you might as well start packing. I have only gotten that feeling once and was gone 6 months later he never knew what hit him. of course it was the last time he hit me too. nobody can answer that question but you and when you snap katie bar the doors he will figure it out or hes just stupid. my mom said enough when my dad accused her of an affair with a married man and threatened to break the guys marriage up. she told him it will be the day you die if you tell his wife because there is no affair and was gone 6 months later. you will know when you have had enough.

It sounds if you already know what the answer is but are just looking to hear it from someone else. If a friend was in your shoes what advice would you give? You have worked very hard and put in alot of energy to make it work. But regretfully not all relationships will endure. It does not sound like he has brought as much effort or emotion to the table. I am always sad for the loss of the "family" all under on roof but it does sound like you would be happier at least knowing where you stand and working out the details with peace of mind and heart. It will be difficult to not be angry, you will cry alot but those things will pass. And once you gather yourself together maybe then peace will come. Pray alot, God always listens. (married 13 years- 2 kids 7 & 4 ) I would wait til after Christmas that would be too much for your son. Good luck & God bless.