Watching Someone Else's Kids

I don't see how leaving the kids with that person would be any different than leaving the kids with a sitter, as long as that person knows that they are responsible for the kids between 5:00 and 6:30am. I don't see how military or having kids would make a difference.

You are right, all you can do is object. Unless he is violating terms of the custody agreement or breaking the law then he gets to decide who he brings into his home and who he allows to watch his kids. Just like you do, when the kids are with you. You may not agree with his decisions but that's life after marriage.

Here's the thing: once you split up with a significant other, you have to bear in mind that their life is exclusively theirs once again. That is to say, you don't have a whole lot of say in who he invites over or what they do during that time.

He thinks it is acceptable because he either doesn't know better or is choosing to ignore his 'you know better' vibe.

My guess is that you are going to have to get any "no sleep-over girlfriends/boyfriends" written into the custody decree. Don't have a custody decree? Then get one. Divorce him already if you aren't divorced, because this doesn't make anyone in the situation look good.

Honestly, and this is going to be blunt, but if this were my situation, I'd be taking a big look at myself right now and wonder how I got here, why I had chosen that person, and what I needed to do now for damage control, to limit the chaos in my children's lives. I'd focus on trying to be reasonable, get things in writing and go forward trying to have the best relationship you can with your ex and your kids.

And then what's supposed to happen with the kids at 6:30am?

At two months, I would not want a person to have that much faith in my character. At two months, we likely have not reached a point where our relationship could or should survive any misfortune that might happen with the children on my watch.

ETA: Okay, okay...got your edit. That likely would bother me, but you can't do anything about it, unless it's written somewhere in your decree or the custody documentation. Why not have the kids with him from 4pm to 10pm, and then you take them with you? Is that an option?

1. would not leave my kids with someone I had only known two months.
2. I would not be willing to take the responsibility of being left with someone else's kids that I had only known for two months.
3. Unless the other parent lives there, why would they be coming in at 4 a.m. and why would you have to leave if they came home? Are you spending nights with a married man whose wife works graveyard shifts?
4. What does the military have to do with it?
5. When my kid was little, if I spent the night somewhere, she was either with her dad or I brought her with me. And she left with me when I left.

Edit:
Just saw your edit and realized that I read the situation upside down.

I would not be waking up at 4 to go to someone else's house to pick my kids up. If he has to be at work that early, then they would need to stay with me at night. He could come pick them up from me in the afternoon and bring them home at bedtime.

You have no control over where she sleeps. Personally, once we had decided to call it quits, I couldn't have cared less who my ex slept with. You're both, for all intents and purposes, single now. You don't get to say who he sleeps with anymore, and he doesn't get to make that call for you either. But just because YOU wouldn't have a man sleep over, doesn't mean that HE can't have a woman sleep over.

Thanks for the whole story, I can completely understand why you would question her being left with the kids alone (where is her child in all this, anyway?)

I think a big part of the problem is your lives are intertwined because you go over to what is now 'his' house to take care of the kids, then leave in the evening. I understand not wanting to uproot the children by having them live in two separate homes, but by setting up this situation you have made it so your ex-DH and you can't have separate lives. If the kids stayed with you during the week and him during the weekends, they would get Dad's time and he could have more autonomy, and you wouldn't have to worry about daily activities. Then you might be able to tell him you prefer his (very new and not-at-all-permanent) girlfriend not spend the night while the kids are there for at least a few months.

Is there any way to separate the living and custody arrangement a little more cleanly?

As far as safety I do agree with your ex. Having her or a different baby sitter run similar risks. Heck statistic show you might be safer with a female stranger than a male relative (not promoting this).

As far as you family values, that is between you and him. I personally would not want some chick (a 2 month relationship) in bed with my ex while my children are in the home regardless of him leaving at 5am.

Unfortunately for you, you cannot dictate who he has in the house when it is his custodial time. If you are going to his/the kids' home and she is there, then she should be the adult in charge and you stay home. It sounds like you and your ex had an agreement that only worked when no one was dating (which is my big issue with the idea of nesting which is what it sounds like here).

Just because you can't imagine it doesn't mean it's wrong. Would you be this upset if she was a live-in nanny or au pair? Are you just peeved because she's his GF or are you peeved because she's only been his GF for a few months? I wasn't in the same situation, exactly, but as the GF and now wife of a custodial father, I was OFTEN in charge of "someone else's kids" and many times it was just because it was the right thing to do to help him or them out. No need for the kid to sit at daycare when I was capable of getting her earlier and start her on her homework.

If this routine no longer works for you/him, then you should make a more conventional custody schedule and then each worry about your own time. And completely separate houses.

I also caution you about being overly worked up about what a grown man does. There is only so much you can legally control (we would have liked it if DH's ex actually divorced her current husband and didn't use her boyfriend to transport her teen daughter when she barely knew him) so stick with the things you can actually do something about and make sure the kids are able to call you if school time arrives and they are left without a way to get there. If they cannot get to school without you, then why not go to mediation and ask your ex for a more traditional every other weekend routine? He might need to change his job schedule if he cannot get the kids to school on his own time. One reason my DH's ex had weekends and summers and breaks was because she was terrible at anything routine, so she wouldn't get them to school on time (if at all). She only had time when getting up at 6AM didn't matter.

Look at it as finding a good schedule vs "taking the kids away". Please avoid making your kids pawns. That will only backfire and hurt them more than your ex.

ETA: When my DH was single, he hired an au pair. His ex had nothing to do with it. It was his decision for his home for his children on his custodial time. Sounds to me like Mom is mad because she's being replaced and she needs to re-evaluate the custody situation and this business of going to the former home every day. I think the parents need to make a formal and well-defined split. THAT is the real problem - that things are not clearly defined.

Is this a custody thing? Of course I agree that divorced parents should only have sleepovers with lovers when their children are not around, and that subjecting their kids to this two months in is a terrible idea. But that's an opinion, not a law. I mean some people would say six months is long enough, some people would say never.
I don't think you have a case against your ex husband unless you can prove he is putting his/your children in clear and present danger by leaving them with someone he's only known a few months. You may not like it (I wouldn't either) but what can you do? I'm sure he makes other choices you don't agree with, and vice versa, and that's why you're no longer together.

I only read the question, not all the edit stuff... so pardon if what I say doesn't jibe with the added information.
But, yes I would have a problem. A big problem. The way I see it, there shouldn't BE any sleeping over with kids in the house after only a 2 month relationship. Those kids should not even have MET the person their parent is dating yet. So anything else you might have added after that point, is moot, to me.

Personally and professionally I would have no problem with this. If I were uncomfortable with this I would find ways to know her better. If I were still uncomfortable I would list the reasons why. Then I would go through the list and delete those that were not related to my children's safety and well being. While doing this I would be sure to separate my issues from the safety and well being of the children. Then I would calmly discuss this, while keeping an open mind, with their father. I would work towards a compromise.

I see no need to turn this decision into a fight. Fights are not good for the children. You being so angry is dangerous for the children. I suggest not being able to quietly co-parent has the potential for lifelong difficulties for your children.

Seems like different issues.... One would be sleeping over after 2 months regardless of whether he left for work so early or not. I would not like that but doesn't it have to stipulated in the divorce agreement for you to have any say? I'd appeal to his sense of duty as a father but probably nothing else you can do. So if he leaves at 5am every day, you'd have to go over anyway, right? So no girlfriend, he has to leave, you need adult there? Or is the 12 year old responsible and since everyone is sleeping, you would just show up at 6am? Kind of seems like the girlfriend is not an issue in terms of safety. She's an adult so unless you think she's a pedophile, not sure it's dangerous for her to be there. If you were going to go anyway bc you wouldn't leave the 12 year old in charge, then this doesn't impact your routine and goes back to point 1 of sucks he's showing this to the kids but what time he leaves in the morning doesn't matter. So you want her to leave with him at 4am even though you'd be there? Or you wouldn't be there so just don't like her in the house with them? If you wouldn't be there, she's not "in charge" of them bc the 12 year old is just as if she wasn't there. Or would he hire a professional sitter?... So not entirely clear on all this... I don't get how he is trusting her if you would be there (and still are) or no one would be if the girlfriend didn't exist. She's just sleeping it sounds like.

Custody arrangements often address this type of situation, particularly mediated agreements (as opposed to court-ordered). Since you are not divorced yet, I would consider raising the issue as you negotiate your custody agreement. Having the free sitter for two hours is a benefit to him, so think of solutions as suggested below that do not involve you going over at 4am. Maybe think of other accommodations you can make in exchange for an agreement of no overnight guests of the opposite gender (other than family). You would have to abide by the term too, but you are more likely to get it if you can offer to meet an interest of his as well.
He doesn't have to understand that it is bad for the kids, he just needs to know that it is an interest of yours that needs to be met in the custody agreement and that you are willing to give in another area to accomplish it.

Not a problem. I don't see that this is any different from having an au pair or live in nanny watching the kids for 1-1/2 hours, during which I suspect the kids are asleep anyway. Besides, a 12 year old is technically old enough to watch the other kids for the time by themselves.

The fact that you disapprove of his personal life is not really relevant since you are no longer his wife. Please consider the two of you will be co-parenting for 13 more years. Also - that one day you may be ready to date again and have a man stay over.

Another alternative is for the person with children to sleep at the new lover's place when/ if they don't have the kids. Two months into a relationship seems a bit too early for sleepover, and early morning rendevous between the other parent and the new lover.

FYI, not in the militry, no family history of military service.

Best,
F. B.

i'm with you. but as you say, it's probably not illegal, so you're probably inviting him to gear up for battle by giving him ultimatums. maybe instead of telling him what he can and can't do, you could 'offer' to 'help' by rearranging the living situation somewhat.
and also have to question what's going on in her head that SHE'S okay with it. most sane women would put the kibosh on being left with a very new boyfriend's FIVE kids for any length of time!
what a sticky, unpleasant situation. the only thing i can think of is to enlist his 'help' in working out what's best for the kids rather than make him feel attacked and like a bad dad. even if he kinda is, at least in this situation.
khairete
S.

I assume you are divorced and he has legal visitation or custody or something.

You have no right to tell him what he can or cannot do in his own home. He is free to sleep with whom he wants and where he wants and how often he wants.

You do not get to tell him what to do.

As for your kids being babysat by a girlfriend because dad left at 5am to go to work and the girlfriend has to go to work at 6:30am, then you should be there by 6:20am just in case she wants to leave a few minutes early.

This babysitting in his home while he's at work is highly abnormal though. One of them should be taking the kids to the child care facility. They should NOT be having you come there to watch the kids. That's just odd.

I think the parent who has the kids needs 'to parent' when he/she has the kids (even if they are sleeping) and not be so into bed romping with the partner de jour instead of watching/being-responsible-for the kids.

Assuming you are the one leaving at 6:30... and don't want to be responsible, then don't sleep over.

If you don't mind, and they are sleeping until you leave, then I would guess it doesn't matter.

If the ex is showing up at 4 and you don't like that - then don't sleep over.

Seems like you are getting into something you don't like - guess what, those kids and the ex will never go away!!

I assume you're not leaving your kids with a man you've only known for two months. I don't approve of that.

Hoo boy! Why would she WANT that? I'm sure your kids are lovely and all, but to be a free babysitter for your new boyfriend's five kids every morning after knowing him only a couple of months? Sucker!

Seriously, I was going to admonish you for thinking that arrangement was okay, but it turns out you're on the other side. No, I'd be where you are. But I don't trust anyone with my kids and never have. We've never done daycare and we rarely have a babysitter. And her background checks mean nothing to me. Nor that she's a mom. I know people who are parents with background checks and I think they make very questionable decisions when it comes to children.

ETA: The difference between this and an au pair or nanny is that YOU didn't hire her. This wasn't a joint decision made by parents. This is a one sided decision by someone whose loyalties have shifted away from the other side. I don't know how acrimonious your split has been, but if it's not mutually decided and you are against it (or if he was against something you were doing) then it's not okay. And I disagree that you have no say over what he does in his home if it impacts your kids. I agree that having her sleep over after only a couple of months is rather questionable from a moral and safety standpoint.

You and him are not together any longer. He gets to choose how he will live his life and you don't get to comment, critique, or complain about it even when your children are involved. Yes, I agree with you, it is poor judgment to barely know someone and have them looking after your kids with no supervision. The best you can do is to teach your oldest to keep an eye on the little ones while the girlfriend is with them and to teach all of your children to have respectful open communication with both you and their father just in case something comes up.

You can't control him or his actions but you can prepare your kids to handle a difficult situation if it happens to come up. That is the best you can do unless there is some evidence that this woman is harmful toward your kids you are kindof stuck. Scary as it may be predators are often people we would totally trust with our children. My guess is that this girlfriend is probably safe but you never know until you find out which is why you prepare the children without alarming them or frightening them.

Sounds to me like the one who leaves at 5:00 has a free babysitter til 6:30 every day. Plus a bed buddy.