To All You Attorney's Out There

Updated on January 03, 2011
S.G. asks from Tecumseh, OK
6 answers

is there anything giving an aunt or a grandparent visitation rights if mom down right refuses rights to them-for no REAL reason? two different states involved. she has never really given my side the time of day with her daughter (my brother's baby) and i'm thinking about teaming up with my mom and going after visitation rights against her....any ideas? i know it's a long shot and probably wont happen but that'll be the ONLY way my side of the family will EVER have anything to do with the baby (3). there is nothing wrong with "us' forsey, my brother has supervised visitation due to mental issues from war, but i guess in her opinion that goes for the whole family, in person, she's a sweet innocent angel, but after she leaves and get what she wants then she is controling and vendicitive.

update-long story short, my brother is TRYING HARD to make this relationship work so he can be an active part of at least 1 of his kids' lives (my take on it) sil knows that my gparents are in their last days and that's the ONLY reason she came to visit is so that neice can "know her family" my gpa and 1 cousin is the ONLY family she shares pictures with or sends cards to. apparently she made brother REALLY mad yesterday, he went drinking and got arrested for drunk driving (my mom was at the bar with him) so yes, my thought, shame on you for letting this problem bring you so far down, and mom shame on you for leaving your son alone in the bar under bad circumstances where he OBVIOUSLY couldn't think for himself at the moment

I just want to see my neice and she has no real reason to keep her from me

and yet they wonder why i keep my distance too!

What can I do next?

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So What Happened?

mommy l, there's only 1 problem to that, she moves just about every time she gives me her address, i've looked her up on facebook, and NOTHING SAID to her, she deletes her facebook, i don't have a phone number for her, my family has this rule (to keep from causing drama-they will not "give out' any contact info if the owner of that contact does not approve it-therefore no one will give me her address, or phone number to call neice-understandable, i don't always want my info given out to just anyone cause they are family (especially dh's side)

denise, and diane, i have attempted my own personal sweet auntie contact, i found her on fcbk and myspace, friended her, and less than a week later, she entirly deleted her page. I've tried to schedule a time for us to meet in the state that she lives in and let the girls play (my dd and her dd) but it was never a good time, i gave her options of an entire month, and that entire month was booked....dunno but i'm starting to switch my anger towards by bro for being so stupid

More Answers

D.B.

answers from Boston on

I think grandparents have more rights than you would as the aunt, but legal action is so difficult, expensive, and hard to enforce if she keeps moving. Maybe if you reach out rather than threaten or pressure her, it might work. This is about control, and right now the mom has it all. I agree to try to send the child a birthday gift (for which you will need an address) but if not, try to send it to the mom's parents or siblings if you can. Making the effort will be more well-received than pressure. And it can be seen as a transaction - "I sent a gift so I get to visit." Sadly, there's not much you can do. I think you should focus your efforts right now on your brother - your mom being with him at a bar while he was drinking to excess (and then letting him get into a car and drive) isn't going to help her get visitation. There's a lot of dysfunction at play here, and it needs to get worked on.

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E.R.

answers from Chicago on

I am not a lawyer, but I am divorced and have some practical experience with custody and visitation issues. Here is what I know:

1)Visitation rights are different in each state. Normally the state of residence where the child lives is the state law that will take precedence. You need to talk to someone familiar with custody laws for that particular state.

2) 'Grandparent's rights' is a relatively new and very fast-changing type of family law. New cases are being tried and new precedents being set all the time, which makes it a lot harder for you to know exactly where you stand. but- it also means it can be more open to new interpretation than more established laws.

Ok- here is what I would do:

1) First - I understand that you love your brother and I am so sorry for whatever he went through that has caused him to have issues after coming back from combat. But- SOMETHING must have happened that scared his wife badly enough to make her feel so strongly that she and her baby are in actual danger from him.

I am not saying she did not contribute to the situation or could not be more supportive and understanding- but this didn't just happen out of nowhere. Whatever occurred, it was serious enough that a court agreed that your brother might endanger his child.

Also- again, I am not trying to be judgmental here at all- but based on what you say above, your mom is not making the best decisions to help your brother get his life back on track. Going to a bar with him and enabling him is not going to impress a judge or help him or the rest of his family get to see his child anytime soon. Honestly- it just sounds like a bad situation and I wouldn't want my child involved. Think about if it was your own child and ask yourself, as a mom, what would you think?

You need to convince your brother's wife that you and your other family members are more responsible than your brother is currently being. That you want to have a relationship with your niece out of love and family feeling and not to try and get her on her daddy's 'side' or anything like that.

Again- trying to be honest here- what you have said above, that the mother is no sweet angel and is controlling and vindictive- it really sounds like you have serious personal issues to work out about this too. When you feel so strongly about someone, it is hard for them NOT to notice that. If I knew that was how you felt about me- combined with being afraid for myself and my child and scared of my husband- I would probably avoid the whole family too.

You need to really examine whether or not you can get over your personal feelings about the mother and try to see things in a reasonable way. You need to make it clear to everyone that this is about love for your niece and wanting to have a normal relationship with her- regardless of what goes on with her mom and dad's personal relationship. If you can't do that, I highly doubt any judge is going to help you out.

That brings me to my last bit of personal advice: seek mediation. In most divorce or family law/custody issues now, the court will often tell both parties to engage in mediation to hash out their personal issues, schedule conflicts, etc. so it doesn't waste so much of the courts' time. It can also be a much friendlier way to do it and it is MUCH better for the kids, IME.

Stalking your brother's wife on FB- and it is sort of stalkerish!- is NOT the way to get in touch with her. Again, if you are SERIOUS about this process, you will have to do things through normal channels.

If you cannot just call this woman up and request that she meet with you and your mother and a mediator to work out some way for her daughter to see your family that will not be in violation of your brother's court order and that will be acceptable to ALL parties, then you will need to go through her attorney.

Just send him a formal letter requesting that she meet with you and your mother and a mediator for a session to work this out because you want to have a familial relationship with your niece, no matter what the situation is with your brother. It is VERY likely she will advised to attend mediation- because you are being the reasonable people, asking to sort things out like grownups. Courts like that, and her attorney knows it will make her look stubborn and uncooperative if she refuses to even meet with you in mediation. This will only work if you commit to going to a mediator though- she can totally refuse to call you or meet up for coffee someplace- it is NOT the same thing.

You MUST stress the difference between your brother's behavior and actions and those of your family. And everyone in the family must stick to the rules. If she agrees in mediation that her daughter can come over ONLY if your brother is not present- then you MUST abide by that.

Tell her attorney that they can choose the mediator- it won't matter who picks them, as long as it is someone court-certified. Usually mediation is about $200 per hour- cheaper than an attorney!

Usually each side will meet privately with the mediator first to discuss goals and issues and they will help you figure those out too. Then you will all meet together. It is AMAZING how helpful it can be to have an uninvolved 3rd party to help sort things out and get everyone to compromise a little. You could work it out so your mom and dad get to meet them at McDonalds and take your niece to the Playplace, or at a park or whatever, until everyone is comfortable with the situation and then have meetings at home.

The mediator will write up what everyone agrees to as a legal document to be filed with the court as an addendum to your niece's support and custody arrangements. Then everyone must abide by it- or arrange to return to mediation to negotiate or talk over any major changes. Having that as a guideline really helps everyone to stay on good behavior.

You will have to give a little to get a little. but in my experience, it will be WORTH it. At first it is going to be awkward, but everyone will get used to it and if you all stick to the rules, you will all be glad you worked this out as your niece grows up. Although I did not get along with my former MIL when I was married to her son, I knew how important she was to my little boy and how much she loved him. She is much more elderly than my parents and lives in a retirement community. I made a point of taking my son out regularly to see her and stay with her and now we have a GREAT relationship. She and my son are very close and I am so glad he has had that in his life- but it could have easily been otherwise. You need to work WITH your brother's wife, not against her if you want to make this happen, no matter how frustrating it might be.

Oh- and don't worry about her snowballing the mediator. Those people have seen and heard everything- they are very good at sorting out truth from fiction and, in my experience, very fair.

Good luck- I hope your brother is able to get the help he needs to recover and that his wife can see that her daughter will benefit from a relationship with ALL of her family so you can all heal and move on.

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J.B.

answers from Detroit on

In Michigan there is Grandparent Visitation and from what I have heard and learned they give it to the Grandparents even if they are not OK. You can call an Lawyer and ask them Granparents can file for Visitation in your State. Have you tried talking to the Mom and asking her. I gave my ex MIL visitation until she did the unthinkable to my DD then I refused upon the advise of my lawyer then she took me to court and even though my DD told a therapist what had happned they awarded her unsupervised visition and overnight visitation. Thank God my ex decided after I remarried that he wanted my husband to adopt her since he didn't want to pay child support and my DD cried and pleaded with him before each visitation not to make her go. Good Luck.

M.L.

answers from Houston on

Ihis sounds like my sister in law who out of the blue decided her family is this horrible abusive monster and won't have anything to do with any of us, and we are not allowed to see her baby. I look forward to hearing your answers. I know grandparent's rights do exists in some states.

In the meantime, I would write the little girl letters, call often and be very nice and inviting. The child will grow up fast and will figure it out one day.

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D.P.

answers from Pittsburgh on

Hi S.,
I'm not an attorney. But just wanted to put out there that this might just be a situation for some personal interaction between you & ex SIL.
Have you tried that first? Talk to her about spending some time with the baby. Where & when as not as important as "can I?"
If you approach this legally without exhausting other options, that would be unwise. Be specific. "We would like to visit the baby on Jan 20th at 10:00 a.m. Is that OK with you? We will stay 2 hours."
OR can you also see the baby during your brother's visitation?

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B.M.

answers from Chicago on

Hi S.,

My decree is in OK, so I have some experience with OK law, but I'm not sure what state your niece lives in.

Here is the advice that I was given (in OK - which was NOT extended family friendly when we set up custody). Basically - the workaround is that you need to get your brother to excercise HIS visitation and then give his daughter to you. The custodial parent doesn't really have a say about who actually keeps the kids during the other parenting time. She would have to make a stink, take you to court, prove that you were spending 'too much time' with your niece and then try to get the DAD's time reduced. Probably won't happen (but crazy sometimes does happen).

So - whatever is written in the decree your bro needs to start making arrangements to take his daughter - travel whatever. Then she just stays with you.

If he doesn't have a decree or wants more time then you can pay for his lawyer (if you have the $$$) and HE can go back and get more parenting time.

This also may not work since I just re-read that he already has supervised visitations - maybe you just go with him so you can start to develop a relationship?????

I actually tried to have it written in to my custody arrangement that his extended family could exercise his parenting time if he chose NOT to (because I knew he wouldn't take her all that he was allowed) and was advised NOT to do that - so I just verbally told them I wouldn't stand in their way.

Good Luck.

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