Terrible 4S? - Chicago,IL

My son is 4 and at times horrible! My oldest daughter is now 9 and went through the same thing at 4. I prefer 2's over 4's any day. At 4 the back talking, attitude and argueing everything begins, makes me nuts! you're not alone, but just so you know, it didn't really get much better past 4, just kinda changed. I think it's that the kids want to be more independent, yet are so very dependent. Just bare with it. I did make a behavior chart for my 4 yr old. It's for 30 days, every day he is good he gets a star, if bad day, no star. When he gets 15 stars, dollar store, 30 stars is Chuck E Cheese. This seems to help a little and hates not getting a star. Took us about a month to reach dollar store. Good Luck!

Oh, Mama....I understand! My daughter will be 5 in December and I keep saying the same thing you have, which is "she never did this at 2 years old when she was supposed to, why is she doing this NOW??". She, too, has been defiant, pushing limits, etc. She doesn't do the tantrum thing (at least not the screaming part), but she does seem to cry at the drop of a hat and just generally is more moody. I am thinking it is a normal 4 year old thing? We have had lots going on in our lives this year (I have been battling cancer, but am now cancer free...Praise God!), but she hasn't seemed bothered by it since we keep things pretty consistent around here despite the chemo, surgeries, etc. She has spent lots of time with other people (friends who are helping out when I can't take care of her), but she has been with me for the most part. Her younger brother, who is 2, is the one who has been in full time daycare since I can't keep up with him. I wonder if part of her issue is because she now has a younger brother who is 2 and she is mimicking some of that so she can get attention?

I will be reading some of the other responses to see what other suggestions there are, but it sounds like you are approaching it the right way. Ignore the tantrums or send her to her room (that's what we do....send her to her room until she can pull it together), then we talk about it. I do the same for the attitude. Send her to her room by herself and then we talk about why what she's doing isn't appropriate. We also take away her favorite toys and TV. This has been working and she seems to be getting better, so give it a shot! Good luck....I can't tell you how much I agree with you that it's annoying when your "angel child" starts acting up after you think you're past that point! Ugh! :-)

You can help with the meltdowns by giving her vit B complex drops under her tounge in the morming, a spoon of cod liver oil, and later in the evening about 400-500 mg of magesium malate.
These willl support her nervous system and create a better mood. Dont forget how important water is to the nervous system also. You will get very aggitated and grumpy when you are dehydrated because your body takes your water away from the nervous system and re-routes it to the vital organs. The vital organs cannot run on low water. The nerves can, although they will not fire well and the preson will feel edgy and angry. You nerves run on HYDRO electricity.

My son will be 4 in October and he's been a complete TERROR for the past 6-8 weeks on and off...Overall, he's always been a good boy but lately he's been out of control... Throwing fits, talking back, kicking, screaming, meltdowns, BIG TIME testing every limit, etc... I know he sees his friends acting out and follows that at times but it's been EXTREMELY challenging for me lately... I can't wait for bedtime as soon as he wakes up. I know that sounds horrible but lately, it's true....
I am VERY much into following through with what I say and always giving him warnings and then timeouts. I give him 2 options when he's being bad (example: when he doesn't want to get out of the car, I'll say " do you want me to open up the back passenger door or front passenger door for you to climb out".. It gives him a sense of independence and being able to make his own decision.. If at that point he's still not wanting to get out of the car, then he'll get a warning, I'll count to 3 and then a timeout)... I TRY to give him choices but it doesn't always work...
Besides that, I'm curious to see what advice other mom's have because I'm dealing with the same issues...
Good luck!!!
Your not alone :0)

My daughter is your daughters age (she'll be 5 in Sept) and it's the same thing. She pushes every limit she can to test the boundries - what she can get away with. She is also asserting her independence like she hasn't before. Also, one second she plays nice with her brother and the next she's being mean to him (he's 21 months). I think it's normal, but exhausting to us parents. Stick in there - it's sounds like you are giving her what she needs - consistency and discipline.

We're having similar issues with our 4 year-old son. He did have the terrible 3's though, and we kept hearing from other people that 4 is better.

But, he's been a lot more whiny, pushing limits, etc. Like you, we impose a discipline and follow through. I don't mind rewarding with small things if he's been particularly good, but I don't stand for the bad behavior. Kids need to decompress and have fun. I want them to play and enjoy themselves, but this is different.

We really don't have issues at Day Care. Only once has he had something (sprinkler time) taken away. We corrected that on the spot, and the first thing he did the next morning was to walk up to the teacher and apologize.

We're working hard on reinforcing the positive behavior, complimenting him when he uses good manners and is a good kid. We ask him if he likes being told how well he does or how bad he's being better? Of course, positive reinforcement is always the choice.

Just like it's easiest for us to be grumpy with our families, to share the miserable details of a bad day, to be OK being a little off (vs. friends, coworkers, random strangers), I think our kids are the same.

I wish I had more advice. Just a lot of empathy.

I am curious what happened when she stayed home from the park yesterday. What did your husband say happened? How was she?
She is not too old for that behavior - I have seen it on twelve year olds. She is testing your limits I believe. At school, rules are extremely clear for a large group of people. There isn't usually any way around it with upwards of ten in a classroom ( usually a lot more ). I think you are on the right track, stick to your guns. She was given a clear message that you are in charge. I only wish there were more parents like you or I wouldn't have had to deal with much older children in Middle school this year calling me a few choice words and telling me they don't have to take tests for which administrators throw their hands up in the air and say there is nothing they can do. It really does start out with the parents so that by the time they are in later years, the children clearly know the values and the rules and the consequences. To me you may have your arms up in the air but I am commending you for an excellent job. Good luck!

Oh wow. If all little girls go thru this, I'm not even sure how I'll handle it. My daughter is only 3.5 and started baby talking some weeks back and does it so much, I HATE IT!

But, I do think it happens to both girls and boys. My son (5.5) does the same thing your daughter does every now and again and like you, I hope it passes quickly.

I'd suggest when she cries over little things when in or around the house, send her to her room and let her know she needs to stay in there until she's done having her fit (most times, it will take less than 2 minutes and they are all better). But, I'm not sure what you can do if you are simply walking on the other side of the street. My guess is that like us, you have given your daughter too much control and when she doesn't get her way (which street SHE wants to walk on), she throws a fit.

It seems to help me if I give them a choice, but I'm really not sure if that's a good idea, because ultimately, they feel their opinion is the only one that counts, so it will be interesting to see how others handled it.

Thanks and what a wonderful question.

Maybe she's missing a solid routine. Kids need to know what to expect every day, and summer is kind of a free-for-all. Maybe you or your nanny could take a minute every morning to talk about what the day will bring. Then she has the security of knowing what's coming. The situations where she's behaving (camp, grandparents, etc.) are structured and familiar, and she feels comfortable with them.

We've found ages three and four to be very difficult with both of our kids. Our daughter is four right now and can be exhausting with all of her drama. However, we know we just need to hang in there. Generally by five, all of this dies down and things start to get easier.

As far as who sees the bad behavior, it will be the people your child is most comfortable with. The parent who's with the child the most tends to get the worst of it. It doesn't surprise me that less frequent caretakers are getting the best treatment from your daughter.

Hang in there! You're almost to five and things should get calmer then.

I actually just read an article that discussed this very thing and explained why it is not only normal but also healthy behavior. (I have a 4 1/2 year old daughter, btw, and we are going through much the same thing).

When you think about it, we all behave differently around different people. You might say something to your friends that you wouldn't say to your mother because you recognize the difference in relationship there. Where you might feel like telling your boss off, you hold back because you realize that would be a bad move, yet you probably wouldn't hesitate to tell your husband off in certain situations.

What your daughter is doing is figuring this whole thing out. It is very common at this age, especially as they are introduced to school for the first time. There's a whole new set of authority figures to deal with as well as many peers, so this is how a 4 year old learns to separate family from the outside world. At the end of the day, even though it seems brutal, you should take heart in knowing that your daughter is comfortable enough to throw tantrums around you but realizes that doing the same thing in front of her counselors would not be good. She is starting to learn the nuance of relationship building.

Hope this info helps! I know it is frustrating but trust that it is just a phase (and like most of them, an important one). Like everything else, it will pass, and you'll move on to the next one. Hang in there! : )

My little niece is also a stinker, just keep up with time outs, consequences, etc. Don't worry it will pass!

I love all the suggestions so far. Give it all a try.

I was just thinking that perhaps a change in direction may be warranted. Begin giving her choices between this or that and see if that helps along with greatly praising and rewarding her good behavior. When we focus on the negative we seem to get more negative and when we focus on the positive we get more of the positive. I'm not saying to punish incorrect behavior but rewarding or praising good behavior when she is good may help level out her angst.

Girls can be moody and growing up isn't easy. I was a great child up until I was 13 and became a totally different child, very uncooperative. I was just trying to find my ownself and my own voice in the world. So from 13-18 I was an aweful, miserable person towards my mom (the saint). She really was a great mom but I was a bad child to her and strangers but fairly decent to other that knew me.

Bear with her and continue to be consistent. She will get through this and you will too. Soon, all too soon, she will be out of your house.

Aren't all kids born to test limits. Honestly, yes you were lucky. she didn't start earlier.
But, it sounds like your doing the right things to curb the behavior.

When my daughter turned three, I also thought I was blessed with the rare child who would not give me any trouble until the teen years. . . but the temper tantrums came out in force in her third year. Since then, I've discovered that kids begin to show independence and a stubborn streak at different ages: sometimes it begins at two, sometimes three, sometimes later. It is also common for young children to be more defiant with the same sex parent and less so with the opposite sex parent. All of this behavior is normal and expected. Most important is how you react to it. My daughter and I improved our relationship by taking a series of classes on Saturdays at a place in Chicago called Tuesday's Child. Other resources include Love & Logic, and Smart Love. L&L is based in Colorado, but they have an informative website from which you can buy materials such as DVDs and books. Behind SL are two psychologists, the Piepers. I believe they have written a couple books that are available through stores such as Borders, and sometimes they give talks or coordinate parent groups. These three places and organizations advocate positive discipline. I'm so glad I use this approach with my daughter. It is effective, but more important, it is kind.