Teachers/Parents Who Have Experience With...

Like with other disorders I think you'll just need to research, research, research. The more you learn about it, the better time you'll have coming up with solutions. It's definitely time to have a pow-wow with the parent(s)!!

EDIT: I am always a huge fan of Jim Fay's Love and Logic. (www.loveandlogic.com) Great stuff for ALL kids and again Jim Fay is a wonderfully funny and informative speaker, so if you can get into one of his conferences it is just another great teaching tool for classroom management. I usually used the BIST strategies when I had an out of control student that wouldn't listen at all and could become violent towards himself, the other students or me.

I taught elementary for 13 years and both school districts I taught in (in Missouri and Nebraska) utilized strategies created by BIST (Behavioral Intervention Support Team-www.bist.org). Their strategies reach the whole spectrum of kids, from those that are most compliant to kids with severe behavior problems such as ODD. Marty Huitt and Cherie Mericle are phenomenal speakers and really funny too. The entire staff is very talented in helping children be successful in overcoming these obstacles. Good luck! I know how exhausting students like this can be!
HTH,
A.

I have found all the Ds are interrelated. Like my son has PDD they wanted to put ODD in with that, they may have, who knows. My point is does he appear ODD because he lacks the social skills to properly articulate his need to understand why he is asked to do something or is it actually ODD?

I have ADD and I need to understand why I am asked to do a task. I am not being defiant, it just doesn't make sense to me. I need it to make sense, ya know?

So take that to a classroom setting you ask the class to do this task. He doesn't understand it, you have made it clear his method of clarification is inappropriate so he goes to other student, he still gets it wrong. In his mind it is their fault, they too told him the wrong thing. When we get frustrated we get angry, doesn't mean we are ODD.

So what I am pretty much saying is make sure his needs are being met before you throw a label like that on him.

Oh and why I don't know if it is part of my son's diagnosis is his diagnosis changes every year as his needs are met and we don't see the anger anymore.

Whoa! Back it up.
Wouldn't this child have an IEP or something like that including services IF he has an ODD diagnosis? As his teacher, I guess you would be involved in that, so probably not.
I don't think, as a teacher, you can diagnose him yourself.

I don't have personal experience with ODD.
I have a friend with a son with ODD.
They got counseling and therapy for their child that included rules and tools for him to help him deal with his defiant behavior and attitude.
They did not rely on the school or teacher to deal with his ODD.
You're making a mistake if you are trying to label this kid, if you lack the expertise. The teachers would then be brought up to speed with techniques, etc. for that particular child.
Talk to your school's psychologist and counselor for techniques to handle and motivate this child. Use YOUR professional resources.

I'm a longterm sub at a public middle school, so definitely not an expert! My 6th graders are a real handful, and one of my 9th period kiddos fits this description to a tee. I had her seated right in front of my desk so I could redirect and keep her on task, the admin suggested I move her away from me and continually walk around the room during instruction with occassional "drive bys" to her desk to redirect but not engage. This child LOVES to get things stirred up, but if I don't stop and allow her to get in a word, things don't get started. So far it has worked, in fact, she now claims I'm her favorite teacher because I'm not "in her face" all the time. Good luck, it is a huge challenge!

I think Angies reply was wonderful.

I cann't help specifically, but wanted to suggest that if he is just joining your class now, that It might be even harder for him than a typical child to acclimate to what the class rules are etc. So maybe review with the whole class what your expecations are, what your reward system or discipline system it. play some game or activities designed to help the kids get to know one another.

It really puts everyone at a disadvantage because by this point in the year your group of students should have this down pat and now this student and what ever his issues labled or not, brings everyone back towards square one. But not taking the time to go back over this is just asking for you to spend the rest of the school year focusing on this one child and his behavior.

I just wish i could put some of these posters in a room with 25 kids, 5 or more of which have some sort of emotional special need and see what they could accomplish. It's all roses in theory, but when the other 20 children have to move out in the hall because Johnny no lable- is turning over desks and ramaging the room because he didn't "understand" why you would ask him to do something the other 20 kids are already doing such as standing in line without poking someone., they might be singing a different tune.

I found your question interesting and found this via Google:

http://www.brighthubeducation.com/special-ed-behavioral-d...

"Most students respond well when teachers clearly state their behavioral expectations. This is especially important for students with ODD. Teachers may start by stating two or three behavioral goals for the student. These goals may include expectations such as “I will accept the word ‘No’ “ or “I will follow directions.” If possible, include these expectations on a behavioral chart and monitor progress throughout the day. Have the student state the expectations at the beginning of the day, and restate it as needed."

There are other good articles on that website. Good luck!

My son also has these tendencies - he is ADD - not ADHD. He is not hyperactive, and not willfully defiant, but he is almost driven to not obey. But the doc said he was not ODD, because he is not cruel to animals, and doesn't hit or lash out at people or threaten people repeatedly.

Anyway, not much works with him either. But he has 2 teachers, one who can do anything with him, the other who is exasperated by him 99% of the time. The one who is good with him nips his behavior immediately. She seems to have a sixth sense as to when he is going to play up and redirects him. It does mean that she has to watch him a little more than normal, but he responds really well to her. She is very curt and to the point, but not argumentative, and that is the key, his other teacher is argumentative and lets her anger show, and that drives him to misbehave further.
Dont show your anger, which is your weakness, keep calm, watch him, redirect him nip it in the bud.
Strangely enough, consequences and rewards don't work for my son either, he forgets about them in the throes of his condition, he lives in the "now" as probably this other boy does, so you will have to give immediate rewards or punishment. The one punishment that works REALLY well for my son is lines. Give him 50 lines writing what he did wrong. "I will not throw my pencil" 50 times will reinforce it pretty good.

I would say the first step is getting in communication with the child. Too many times we adults talk AT a child or OVER the child from a position of authority. Now, I'm not suggesting you give up your authority--but a child is a human too. A human who doesn't have any control over his/her environment or what he/she is being told to do. They are ordered around a lot and punished if they don't comply.

Your student is new. He is probably still angry over moving schools and other things he couldn't control. He has probably dropped down into apathy over the whole situation and he just doesn't care (as you said).

Get in communication with the child and the parents. Try to understand him. Talk to him. Try multiple times. Find out what makes him tick. Make him feel important. He probably feels unwanted, unloved, and unimportant.

Kids like this also need to know WHY they are being asked to do things and how they can help. Most children WANT to help! See if you can enlist his help. Maybe give him a job to make him feel important. Don't look for an instant change. Sometimes it takes a lot and some time for things to make a difference.

He is probably feeling defiant--you're probably right on that score. But you know that most human emotions have REASONS. It's only when there are no reasons at all that we stick a label like ODD. If a person has a reason to feel defiant--or depressed--why would you stick a label on that? It's called BEING HUMAN!!!

See if you can pinpoint the reason. I would guess there IS a reason. It just might take some digging to find it.

Good luck!

As a mom with a child (now 19) diagnosed ODD I can totally relate. When my son was in elementary school I routinely asked his counselor, physician, psychologist and anyone I could think of "How can I get him to care?" He cared about nothing or no one meaning he didn't care whether he did good in school or at home, or what you thought of him or his behavior. This made for a rough life while he was in school. That is until he got diagnosed and began treatment.
It was with the help of a teacher who helped us realize he needed help. If it wasn't for the teacher helping us realize he needed help we would have just continued feeling as if it were our fault as parents. That we were not good at begin a parent.
To answer your question about helping you in the classroom. Something that helped our son was giving him jobs to do that fit his skills. For example: Our son was excellent in Math. He did not do well working in groups as he thought everyone else was "stupid" because they didn't catch on as quickly. The teacher decided to ask him to "help" the others understand the math concepts. He rebelled at first but we and she built it up so that he thought better of it and decided to help as "leader" of his group.
He is 19 now and is a much more agreeable person without medication. He still has difficulty with feeling empathy for others and is a loner at work and college but at least he doesn't show disrespect for authority as he once did.
If there is anyway you can talk to the parents (or have the counselor do so) in a loving way to suggest to have him evaluated for these tendencies you will be doing them a favor. Tell them you've noticed tendencies to "this" or "that". I wouldn't suggest to them that this was based on something you've read but just on your knowledge as a teacher and professional.
Hope this helps! Good Luck!

First, this child needs to be seen by a specialist who can then give him a diagnosis. Once he has one he then needs to have therapy to help him learn good ways to cope. ODD is NOT something that one person, ie you as a teacher can help much with. There are deep seated reasons for his behavior and ODD may not be the result, even. He needs professional help.

You need professional help to learn how to deal with this one specific child. You can learn a lot by reading up on ODD but also on methods to teach the challenging child. He may not have ODD.

What is his family experience like? Could he be going thru an especially difficult time at home? Parents in the midst of a divorce? Parents still in the fighting stage before a divorce? Parent's who are not meeting his needs? A death of an important person in his life? These can all cause ODD like behaviors but not be ODD.

I had a foster child with diagnosed ODD and who also had all the negative life experiences that also influenced her behavior in a negative way. I relied on counseling with his counselor to help me deal with it. There is no easy formula. It was a matter of figuring out what his needs were as well as setting good boundaries with related consequences. And......most important of all, is to realize that as a teacher you do not have enough time to focus on this one child to treat the ODD.

I suggest that you continue what you're doing now. Have immediate consequences when he misbehaves. Make them as logical as possible. When he threatens another child he is immediately separated from the other children. Do not argue with him. Be firm and direct. Minimize cutting him slack because you feel sorry for him. At the same time do not go overboard with the consequences. Expect the same things from him as you do the other children. And.....rely on the professionals to diagnose and treat him as well as to help you deal.

I suggest that he does care but he's unable to trust that positive reinforcement and consequences are helpful. So keep giving them. It will take months, perhaps years, for this child to change. Teach and be professional but don't invest emotionally in him and his ability to change.

One article on ODD seeming to describe your student does not mean that this child qualifies for the diagnosis. There are nuances to every psychological disorder that you may miss if you have not received in depth training to recognize the differences (like what Jo W. was talking about with ADD and needing to understand before following directions). There are six other types of disorders that are commonly mistaken for ODD, and you are doing this child a disservice if you attribute his behavior to one disorder when in fact it is just as likely something else entirely. Express your concerns to the appropriate people at your school, and please try not to label this child (even to yourself).

Just out of curiosity, how new is this student? Have you considered the possibility that he and his family have just been through some rough times leading to a need to move? Some kids act out when they are dealing with big stress because they don't know how to cope. If you haven't already, maybe you could meet with the parent(s) to express concern for his difficulty settling in at the new school/new classroom. If nothing else, you could get an idea of what (if anything) has been addressed previously or whether this is new behavior.

I have a 5 year old who was diagnosed with ADHD/ODD. You can Google and see the statistics showing that a large portion of kids with ADHD also have ODD. I am working very, very close with his teacher and a therapist to correct defiant behavior. My family had been telling me for a couple years that he had ADHD and I refused to (a) believe in ADHD and (b) medicate him when I thought he could be fixed through diet and proper guidance. WRONG!!!!

His teacher absolutely refused to tell me thought he had ADHD/ADD or anything, for that matter. She is awesome, but very much a stickler to the rules, and finally after many rough days for her and conversations from me she said, "I think it might help to have him tested." That was all I needed to hear. So, I think it is awesome that you are addressing the issue. Parents are naive and some even refuse to accept that something may not be "right" or just "perfect" with their child.

As for how to address the ODD in the classroom, you really need to understand ODD. It is a temperament that has to be dealt with completely different that children who do not have it. Dr. Ray Levy has SAVED MY LIFE!!!! My parenting tactics and skills have had to be revamped for my ODD child, as did his teachers. The most important thing Dr. Levy told me was that ODD children receive and perceive everything at about 1/2 of non-ODD children. So, punishment for my 9 year old could be me giving him a day with no computer whereas punishment for my ODD child is not knowing when he is going to EARN the privilege to have his computer after a Time Out and possible Hold Down against a wall. The "effect" levels are the same for both children despite the harshness of the punishment. On the flip side, I can give my 9 year old an iPad and he will flip upside down with joy, whereas my ODD child will simply thank you and tell you that you should have done it sooner. Knowing that information helps me when I implement punishment, swift consequences and making sure what I do is effective. Typical reward systems for good behavior don't work either. They laugh at the whole "Star for Good Behavior" concept. However, what will work for this child is difficult to ascertain without knowing him/her or knowing you have a support network to back you up in terms of consequences. An ODD child will always find their next "victim" or "weak player" and push their buttons.

Dr Levy has done many seminars at schools to help address this issue. ODD is tough to deal with and you will absolutely, 100%, need assistance from his entire network, at least to make it sanely through the year.

I have a book from Dr. Levy that I think (not a 100% certain) has a section for teachers. If you want to message me privately with your email address I will scan and send you that section of the book, or you can go online and get it for very cheap. In no way, shape or form do I work for Dr. Levy. I just learned how to take my household back through his strategies and therapy sessions.

I hope everything works out and turns around for you.

KD