Hi Moms,
I really need some input on this. My daughter (11 yrs) has had this friend since last year and she has been a hand full! At first they were good friends and everything was fine. But then this friend started controlling my daughter telling her who she can invite to her bday party and who she can hang out with at recess. She keeps her on the phone for long periods of time and when D11 tries to get off she just keeps talking. Then if D11 doesn't call her back she gets pissed at her and grills her on why she didn't call. We overheard D11 a couple times repeatedly saying how sorry she was and that she promised she wouldn't do it again etc., We told D11 no playdates or sleepovers with this girl. She also badmouthed me and D11's BFF who lives across the street.
Now they are in middle school and they eat lunch together and have a couple classes together. When her friend calls D11 screens her calls cause she hates talking to her on the phone. D11 wanted me to tell her friend that she doesn't like talking to her but I told her to handle it. After a week of D11 screening her calls she finally told her friend that she doesn't like talking on the phone. She still keeps her on the phone or they txt or they skype! It's too much!
So now for the latest and I apologize for this lengthy post. Her friend invited D11 over for a sleepover bday party this coming Fri. D11 can't go because she is going outta town with her dad and probably won't be back in time. Here is the emails between the two of them after D11 told her she couldn't go. How do I handle this??? Would you intervene? It's weird because D11 keeps saying how she loves her like a sister. When I try to tell her a good freind would never treat you this way she doesn't seem to get it. Help Please & Thank you!
Friends response:
Fine but consider this, if you're home at 3 that gives you 3 hours if you get home at 4 you'll have two hours and if you get home at five you'll have an hour and if you're late at least you tried but to flat out give up showed you dont care ok have fun not caring because now IM Done caring ok you keep being like ok ok IM sorry I sorry well IM done GOOD BY !!!!##
Daughter's response:
Wat just happened? I said I'll try to b there and convinced my parents to come home earlier because I cared. I care tons about u but we made this plan like a month ago. I love u like a sister and want to come but my parents already made plans. I think I can make it in time if we leave earlier. An I actually convinced my dad to let me get u a little cute something while we're traveling but if u don't think I'm trying or caring about u then u think wrong.
Thank you everyone for ALL your feedback and suggestions! I'm so relieved that I'm not crazy for wanting to get rid of this friend. And thanks to Jo for the "insecure with a side of bonkers" comment-it made me laugh which is just what I needed :)
I've been telling D11 that this friend hasn't been a good one when things started happening. And I was trying to get her to invite other friends over or to sit with other girls at lunch but she wasn't keen on it. D11 just didn't want to hear it and it was like she didn't care what I thought. Maybe she was rebelling. But with this email I think that's what broke the camels back. Before D11 left to go outta town I told her that it did not matter when they got back, she was to skip the sleepover. The friend did end up apologizing but frankly, I don't care. Enough is enough!
Ultimately I took the iPod away because of this friend but also because D11 was txting late at night with it and then lied about it. After I took it she found it and she changed the passcode on it. So I told her if she wasn't going to follow the rules she loses it. I also told her no txting, skyping, calling or emailing her friend. D11 wanted to respond again to the friend but I said no.
Then I texted the friends Grandma (they live together while her mom gets clean and gets her act together) and told her D11 couldn't make it to the sleepover but thanks for inviting her. She texted back with a sad face and said, disappointed but we understand. The friend called while D11 was still outta town even after I declined so I think she was checking to see if D11 was really gone or not. I then did what one mom suggested, I told her I saw the email she sent D11 and that I didn't like it. I told her it stresses D11 out and this affects our whole family. I said I won't be letting D11 take her calls, txts and emails.
Tonight we had a nice conversation on what D11 is going to say to friend when they go back to school. I suggested that she could try to sit with a different friend at lunch and ask friend to sit with her to be civil. She can either say yes or no. I also said to be prepared as she may not want to talk to D11 for a while as she has done this before to her. After our talk she asked if she could invite a diff friend over tomorrow after church to go swimming. Of course I said YES! She is finally getting it I think :)
Lastly, I can't wait to get the books that were suggested!
Thanks again everyone!!!
MFM
My daughter also is a very compassionate kid. Kinda kid who feels bad for the umbrella on rainy days, you know?
However, she also has a lot of self respect. She's had her share of controlling, passive aggressive friends like the one you describe. Right around 6th grade, the beginning of middle school, she got a little tougher. Tried to be nice for a short bit, then moved on.
:)
That sounds like insecure with a side of bonkers.
And then
F11 hits D11 battleship! Crash!!!!
Please get and read the book "Queen Bees and Wannabes." It won't give you an exact prescription for this specific situation but will really help you understand how this girl is a manipulator and queen bee who is controlling your daughter. It will also help you with things to say to your chiild when she insists that this little controller is as close to her as a sister -- and when your daughter doesn't get that real friends don't act this way.The book also could help you if this girl decides to turn on your daughter and start to bad-mouth or bully her after this incident with the party. It is very possible that will now happen.
Meanwhile, be willing to be the tough mama here and tell your daughter to tell her friend (one LAST contact) that mom is taking away her phone and text and and Skype privileges. Then do so -- where this girl is concerned. Take the responsibility and the "blame" when this girl goes bonkers that she's been cut off from the tools that let her keep your child on a string. Your daughter will be relieved that she can legitimately say, "Sorry, my mom has taken away all that and you can reach me by e-mail but for now she's reading all my e-mails. She's tough but what can I do?"
Also ensure your daughter has plenty to do with her time so she doesn't have time or energy to spend brooding on this girl. Be sure she is involved in groups or activities she likes and where she will be with girls (and adults) who don't act this way (or where the adults will see it and nip it in the bud like any good, observant scout leader/coach/teacher would do in a group setting).
Finally -- they're 11. I would not be comfortable with 11-year-olds having this much constant contact, though I'm sure other moms will say we live in the dark ages in our house. My daughter's 11 and she only calls and chats with her friend who is three time zones away. No chatty calls with buddies, no texting at all (she does not have a phone), no Skype (don't even have it), and e-mail is via my e-mail address (she doesn't have one). It sounds like the kids in your daughter's circle have a lot of access to ways to communicate, which isn't necessarily good.
I'm sorry, but your daughter is asking you for help. I understand that you want her to be independent and learn how to deal with her friends by herself, but it sounds like she is trapped in this manipulator's vicious cycle, and she is not equipped to handle it. Instead, she is apologizing and doing her best to placate this girl, when really, she should be standing up to her. Have a long talk with your daughter about making this girl an only-at-school friend, and then enforce it. The calling, the texting, and the skyping all need to stop. It can resume again when your daughter knows how to demand respectful treatment instead of trying to compromise with unreasonable demands, but she's not there yet (she does not need to come home early from a long-planned activity with her father for a not-long-planned party at her friend's!). It is time for you to STEP IN, before your daughter either gets caught up in something she can't handle, or loses all her self-esteem as she tries without success to make this insecure child feel better.
Why don't you just step in?
Sure, a kid can attempt to handle it themselves... but at a certain point, per the parent gauging it.... you need to KNOW when to step in.
This friend of your daughter's..... is very OBSESSIVE.
Your daughter already tries to handle it.
What more, do you want her to do???? To handle it on her own???
The thing is: That other girl, will NEVER NEVER NEVER be satisfied with whatever your daughter does, or does for her, nor no matter how she proves she cares... because this other girl, is being very controlling and obsessive about BULLYING your daughter.
And there comes a point, where you need to step in.
I have a daughter who is 9. She is very good about choosing friends and speaking up. She is very mature.
BUT... there was a girl that was always PUSHY and controlling and bossy and just would not leave her and her other friend, alone.
Even the Teacher, would get irritated about this girl, because the girl was just really egocentric.
So... one day, I was there at school.... I saw the girls telling her to stop it etc. And she would not. And this girl was causing a CONTINUAL stress to the other girls. Everyday. Even if they tried to avoid her in various manners... the other girl would not stop.
So as I said, one day I was at the school and saw this tit-for-tat going on that the other girl was doing. SO... I went up to the girl, (all the kids know me), and I spoke to her, with ALL the girls around me. I told the girl "You cannot force, other people to do what you want, you cannot force other people to play with you if they do not want to, if they tell you to stop- then stop. They are TRYING to be polite, but you do not allow this. This is life. When you are an adult, or working in an office, you cannot do things like this. EACH person, has a right... to say, "no." And you need to accept that." Then I told the other girls, that they can say no, or stop it, to her. And its okay, they need to speak up to those who are bossying them. My daughter and all the other girls, TRIED so many times... to be polite to the other girl and to try various things, to avoid her. But this other girl, is sooooo bossy, and to so many other kids. So I stepped in. And then, it stopped. That other girl, was causing SOOO much STRESS to the other girls, my daughter included... that it was just, a totally burnt out situation already. And I explained to the Teacher. Too. It was fine.
Now, your daughter's "friend" is FORCING your daughter, to PROVE to her, how much she loves her like a sister and how much she cares. That is... really, pushy. And, your daughter should NOT be someone else's door-mat. Look at all the hoops and stress, your daughter has to go through... JUST to satisfy, that other girl? That is not, a "friend." That is emotional manipulation that is dysfunctional.
Egad. If that were happening to my daughter... I would step in and speak to that other girl... as mannered as I can, but getting the point across.
When I was a Teen... there was a boy that was acting like that to me. After trying to handle it myself for so long, I told my Dad. My Dad... stepped in and talked to that boy. It stopped. Sure, this is a boy... but think about it another way... would you want your Daughter... to be like this with a boy????? What if a boy were treating her that way???? What would you do???
As you see, this same situation... could be with this girl or a boy. So then, how would you expect your daughter to handle it?
What more, do you want your daughter to do, to handle it??? On her own?
Good grief... if another child were doing that to my daughter... I would be upset. It is wrong. And I would step in.
And I would not expect... my daughter, to be a "social worker" to that other girl. A child also needs to know... that they can "choose" friends, and be wise about it too.
My kids are 5 and 9.
I have always taught them... how to choose friends, how to say no, and that they do not have to be someone else's door-mat. If something is amiss, they need to tell me or the Teacher.
KEEP that e-mail/text from that other girl & your daughter's response. Because, then it is "proof" of her behavior toward your daughter... and just in case, she starts to lie, to get your daughter in trouble.
That other girl, is an emotional BULLY to your daughter.
Get her away!
Step in.
Your daughter, is suffering.
Put it this way... not even ADULTS, may be able to handle a "friend" or co-worker like that, nor know how to.
So, why should an 11 year old... be on their own, to handle this? That other girl, is TOTALLY dysfunctional... and is using your daughter as her DOOR-MAT.
End it.
And it seems your daughter is just getting HARASSED!
And bullied.
Bad, combination.
Don't let your daughter be a victim. Nor a door-mat.
And teach her and guide her.
The girl sounds messed up. I would encourage your DD to find more suitable friends. The girl sounds like a control freak & very manipulative & dramatic. Your DD sounds too nice & like a people pleaser. This is probably why "friend' has latched on to DD. I think you should step in & end the friendship for your DD's sake.
I always wonder where kids learn this sort of behavior. Seriously. I know teen and pre-teen girls can be catty and all that. But I don't remember associating with ANYbody that would have said those sorts of things to me. None of my friends EVER behaved that way. We all understood that we were KIDS and didn't run the household. So the guilt tripping wouldn't make any sense at all.
I am not sure what I would do. My daughter is 11 also. Fortunately, so far, she hasn't had to deal with anything like this. I hope it stays that way.
Hi Mom,
Your daughter's response sounds mature and to the point. Seems she handled this part of it very well.
Keep talking with her as you have been (it's never a one-time conversation when it comes to teaching our kids things about relationships and such).
I like the idea of you and your daughter reading the book recommended by another poster. It will help to have stories and examples from others to stimulate your conversations and bring home the idea this friendship is one to let go.....at least for now. Some kids do eventually mature and come around and can be friends again, but in this case, that remains to be seen.
Continue to encourage your daughter to work on developing new friendships and strengthening ones she already has with girls at her same level of maturity.
Hope this helps!
J. F.
DRAMA, god how i am happy i am no longer a pre-teen teenage girl!! and i am NOT Looking forward to my daughter beeing a teenager AT ALL. honestly i say dont come home in time, her "friend" is trying to guilt trip her. ask your daughter what she honestly WANTS to do.
I think your daughter is just trying to save face. I wouldn't put much thought into what she is telling that friend. This friends sounds very dangerous and if I were your daughter I think I would be doing my best not to make waves with her either.
I am not looking forward to this stage with my girls....hopefully they are lucky and bypass it.
I would highly recommend you and your duaghter read the book
Little Girls Can Be Mean by Michelle Anthony - it may give you and your daughter ideas on how to handle this friend
I agree with Barb K. - step in and ban that kid! She is manipulative and your daughter is not equipped to handle it.
Your daughter had been mature enough to realize this is not a good friend for her but she needs help getting rid of her.
Tell your daughter that she is no longer allowed to socialize with this girl, other than as needed in the course of regular classwork. Take the decision out of your daughter's hands. If your daughter changes her mind later, too bad.
If the girl calls, answer and tell her that the email she sent was not one that a caring friend would send to another and that you do not want them to socialize outside of class.
If the girl's mom calls, tell her that your daughters were not a good mix and you don't want them to spend time together - your daughter is not strong willed enough / her daughter too strong willed. Be apologetic and polite, but firm. Don't give alot of evidence and examples that will get into a discussion. Say, "Thats just the way I feel. I am sorry."
This is tough and I haven't had to deal with anything like this yet so just my thoughts. I'd talk to your daughter like a psychiatrist almost. Ask her why she likes this girl. Is it bc she's funny and nice or is it bc she makes your daughter feel needed? Is your daughter flattered by the attention? Kind of keep going and ask if your daughter would treat someone like this. How does she feel about the text? Is she scared at all of this girl physically or does she thnk she'll get other girls to gang up etc? Your daughter is old enough that it's hard for you to totally end this friendship but hopefully you can get your daughter to really think about it and then I'd not have this girl over at all, try to get your daughter to focus on other girls etc.
It sounds like your daughter is spending a lot of time reassuring and ego-stroking this other girl. When she gets berated by her, she needs to stop apologizing and explaining things. Her friend is continuously giving her Friend Tests. "Prove to me how much you care about me and prove just how good a friend you are to me!" It's the testing that needs to stop. She either knows that your daughter is a good friend or she doesn't.
Your daughter can now teach her friend how to behave appropriately by saying, "It's too bad that you feel that way." and then change the subject. Go on her trip with her dad and come back with a nice little gift, and she gets back when she gets back.
If her friend isn't happy that she came back "late" then your daughter can reply, "It really stinks that you feel that way. I'll talk to you tomorrow when you're not upset and we can figure out when to get together so that I can give you the present I brought back for you."
"I know you're having a rough time lately, but it's kind of silly that you think I don't care. This is family time and I enjoy spending time with my family. My parents said you and I can get together on the ____ and we can ____ or ____. If that's not soon enough then I don't know what to say. I'll talk to you tomorrow when you're not as upset and ready to make some plans."
You don't have to get involved or step in, but you CAN offer your daughter some scripts to use to help her out. If she's asking you for help then she NEEDS it. She won't just automatically know how to handle this very emotionally needy friend. She also needs permission to tell this friend that she needs some space or to end the friendship even if she cares about her so much.
My youngest had a friend like that...BAN the child from your realm of existance!! And whatever you do don't back down. These girls are control freeks and sooner or later will involve your daughter in something she (and you) don't want or need to deal with. Be prepared it will get messy when the child is told she is no longer to be around...the school thing you have no control over but the rest you do. The girl we have had to deal with even made text threats!! My oldest daughter got so mad about it SHE texted the child back and told her off. We almost had to involved the school because of the drama. The girl is friendly with my daughter at school...but my daughter knows I will NOT let the child here for any reason, nor is she allowed to go the child's house. It's been a year and all has been well. Good luck...girls are hard...I have three!!
Family time always comes before friends. The child is disrespectful of your entire family. I would definitely want that friend out of my child's life. I would have to have a discussion with parents on this one. I don't allow my children to treat people that way and I would never allow a child of mine to have a friend that acted in such a fashion.
It seems to me that your daughter is handling it just fine. I'd continue to be supportive of your daughter, and let her deal with it as she sees fit. It seems like she's doing a good job of distancing herself (screening the phone calls, saying she may not be back in time for the party, etc), but obviously if she were to cut this girl off completely, that would make several classes per day, plus lunch, very uncomfortable. Plus, this girl seems just crazy enough to have some kind of scorched-earth policy - you know, your daughter severs the friendship completely, and her "friend" starts bad-mouthing her at school... so yeah, I think your daughter is doing her best with the situation at hand. If she continues to be unavailable to this girl, but continues to say she loves her like a sister, then probably this girl will just move on and find someone new to glom onto. :)
It seems like your daughter is asking you to help. I would recommend you sit down with you daughter and have a heart to heart about what friendship means - give examples from your life - stress that she will probably loose touch with most her friends in school as life takes her places.....then ask your daughter what her ideal scenario would be - remail friends with this girl but cut back, not cut back or cut it off all togethr. Then tell her you can do this for her ( this way she won;t feel the need to rebel since secretly this is her decision) or guide her through the situation either way your daugher will learn some valuable life skills.....I do think you need to get rid of this friend..............
I completely agree with LivTokyo and Jessica. I was like your daughter, so I know how painful it is to let girls like that walk all over you. You need to teach your daughter how to be strong and how to say no. Role playing can be extremely helpful, where she actually practices responses and comebacks to this type of girl. You should also help her compose strong responses to this bratty girl's texts.
I don't think you should just end contact with the girl, because your daughter will still be faced with her at school. Teach her strength, now. The sooner she learns the ease and beauty of the word "no," the happier she will be.
Middle-school drama. And, as near as I can tell, it only gets worse for a few years, too.
Give your daughter some firm boundaries so that she can use them as her defense.
Typical girl drama! I would just have a conversation with my daughter and tell her not to take anything this other girl says to heart. I would explain that people say and do unkind things when they are hurt and that we just need to recognize that that's where it's coming from. Then, we can feel sympathy for them, rather than anger.
By the way, the friend can't keep your daughter on the phone if you don't answer it or if you do, if you tell her D11 is unavailable at the time or can't take phone calls tonight.
