I am trying to decide how to interact with my husband, who I have known for 4 1/2 years. For most of our relationship, he has been helpful and polite. Over the last six months he has been noticeably less so. He is irritable most of the time. We probably haven't told each other we love each other for almost two years; we rarely kiss or touch each other in any other way. Our marriage feels lifeless. I have suggested that we read books on relationships, such as John Gottman's book on marriage, and attend counseling together, but my husband refuses to do anything of the sort. I have read many books on relationship and attended counseling alone. Unfortunately, the last therapist I saw, who was on the list of therapists whose services my insurance company would pay for, did not seem to have a clue what the core problems in my relationship were.
I am a bit concerned about something that happened last night. My husband shut me out of the apartment after 7 p.m. without dinner tonight. I told him that I was hungry and wanted to eat something before I took our elder son to the library. He responded that I could eat dinner after I returned from the library with our son, which I did shortly before 9 p.m. After I arrived home tonight, I asked my husband how he was doing. He said he felt slightly sick, so I offered him sympathy. When I brought up the issue of him not letting me eat dinner before I took our son out tonight, he told me that he had wanted me to leave with my son because he (my husband) wanted to eat dinner (spaghetti w/sauce) and if our son were around when my husband tried to eat something containing sauce, our son would share the food and get sauce on his shirt. (I'm not sure how that possibility justifies denying another person, one's wife in this case, food.) My husband blames me for him not being able to find his stuff since I redecorated the apartment. (I collected the bars of soap under the bathroom sink to make finding the soap easier and moved his acne gel from a drawer in his bathroom to the undersink cabinet which has a child safety latch to prevent our from getting into the gel. I have never thrown away any of my husband's things. I have not bought anything that costs more than $50.) I think that by "kicking" me out of the apartment he was trying to punish me for redecorating. He told me that he didn't think that I liked him but refused to elaborate on that comment, even after I urged him to do so. At this point, I'm not sure how to significantly improve my marriage. I can do little things, such as never rearranging anything and trying to avoid saying anything that he might construe as critical of him, but I don't think that those things will dramatically alter his feelings towards me.
Any suggestions?
L. E
Thank you for much advice and support. As a psychology student and relative of several psychologists and psychotherapists, I have read many relationship books, including ones by Dr. Laura S, Dr. John Gray, Dr. John Gottman, Dr. Gary Chapman, etc. I have also received therapy from many psychologists and psychotherapists over the last couple of decades to deal with depression and grief over my first boyfriend, who dated me for several years, leaving me. Unfortunately, I have not overcome these problems.
Here's reality: I have not recovered from the loss of my first boyfriend, who left me once and for all (married a younger woman) 17 years ago. When I met my future (now current) husband 4 1/2 years ago, I was almost 40, as was my husband. Both of us wanted to have kids and had hoped to start a family when we were in our 20s but never had the opportunity. As we both very much wanted to have kids and I couldn't wait any longer due to my age and thought that the other was a decent person (didn't have a criminal record and could and did earn a living), we decided to get married. We got what we wanted--two beautiful, lovable children, so I am not going to complain. Unfortunately, I don't think that either of us got to marry the love of his/her life.
Here's the plan: As myy husband is unwilling to talk to me, read articles or books on relationships, undergo psychotherapy or marriage counseling (with or without me), or attend marriage seminars and has said he dislikes change (as does his father), I don't expect him to change at all. He doesn't think that these things will help, and maybe he's right. If my husband files for divorce, I will not try to get him to stay. I will wish him well. As it is difficult for me to say I love him, which I did not have any trouble doing in most of my previous relationships, esp. with my first boyfriend, and I thorougly enjoyed physical intimacy with previous boyfriends, I don't think my lack of desire for intimacy stems from disinterest in physical relations in general. I'm just not really emotionally or physically attracted to my husband, in particular.
If my husband does not file for divorce, then I will try to stay married to him at least until the kids have reached the age of majority. Life as a single parent, and life as a child of divorced/separated parents are hard. Because my husband is a touring musician/crew member, he is out of town approximately six months out of the year. As such, I think that I can manage to be a kind, polite wife to him when he is home. If he ever tries to deny me my basic rights again, I will stand up for my rights. (If he tries to push me out of our home without me having dinner, I will request that HE eat dinner elsewhere--for a long, long time.) When I married my husband, I vowed to forsake all others, so I will not seek out other men to fill the void in my marriage. When the kids reach the age of majority, assuming my husband and I are still married, or at least I, will re-examine our relationship, and make a decision about our marital arrangement. I hope that both he and I find/develop true love someday.
I decided to take back my original advice after reading the update you gave Lynne and thought it better to say what I felt needed to be said to you directly so I sent you the message.
Hi Lynne,
I know that if my husband shut/locked me out of our house there would be a wold of hurt brought down on him. There would be no way in hell I would let my husband treat me like that. You are worth way more than that. Tell your husband to get a grip and so what if you moved the soap and his zit meds! its not like you threw them away. So if you didn't eat at 7pm then your babies didn't eat until 9pm either... that is not right either. I would tell my husband to pack his bags and hit the road. You have been trying to make things work and so far it seems he hasn't you don't want to raise your kids in a loveless and selfish marriage. Maybe if you tell him you want him out he will open his eyes and change is ways. Good luck! and don't let any man treat you like that...
Lynn,
There is definetly more then meets the eye here. Previous posts, everybody wants to blame the hubby.
I have a suggestion of a couple of books that I think will tell all and help your situation.
1. THe Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands by Dr. Laura Schlessinger
2. The Proper Care and Feeding of a Marriage. also By Dr. Laura S.
I would suggest reading 1. first. You will see some results if you follow it, and your hubby may be intersted in reading 2. along with you.
If you dont want to read, or are to stuborn to read, try this:
Men are pretty simple creatures. The just need to know that they are loved and appreciated. Sincerely compliment your husband on a daily basis, and if you really do love him, tell him so - on a daily basis. Show some affection. It is healthy for the children to see that mom and dad love each other. Stop being critical. You will notice a difference in his behavior. But it wont be over night. It will take time. He will need to see consistency in your attempt before he reacts.
YOur chilren need a healthy family unit. A mom and a dad.
Best wishes to you. Heidi
While I don't know the whole story here, it sounds like from the information you did provide that your husband is depressed. Your urging for counseling was the correct thing to do. I do know that men have a much much harder time admitting that they are depressed than women and even harder time seeking help. I really don't think there is much more you can do. He needs to make some changes. Marriage takes two people working hard at the relationship and it sounds like one person has given up in your case. If I were you I would sit down with him and tell him exactly how you feel and ask him how he feels. Then ask him what he wants to do about this and tell him what you want.
Sit down and really think about the changes over th last 6 months that have occured. Look back over the last 2 years as to why neither of you profess your love anymore. Perhaps things started to turn for the worse after the kids were born, which sometimes happens. Moms can get caught up in the kids and completely put the husband aside. Add your studies and where does that leave him? Are you being the wife you know you can be? Don't forget to be his girlfriend in your daily activities!
I completely second reading the Dr. Laura books. They helped me and opened my eyes to ways I was hurting our relationship. It's always easier just to blame the hubby and avoid things we may be able to do.
You hold the power and if you treat kindly, good things will happen.
Don't nag about counseling, etc. Just change your attitude and actions and his should follow along. It will take a while for the loving feelings to come back but they will.
Good luck and don't give up. You've got to try for your kids sake.
Wow, sounds a little like Asperger's to me but I'm no pro. He doesn't respond well to change and can't handle doing anything out of his own comfort zone (i.e. eating dinner with his son taking bites because his son could possibly get his shirt dirty). He seems to understand when something bothers him but has no concept of what might bother someone else (i.e. you being hungry while he was hungry and denying you the chance to eat). Of course you can't diagnose him and he is beyond unwilling to figure himself out and change for the family and you have been so accommodating to him....so the question is, can you continue the marriage knowing that he isn't willing to change anything and still be happy and fulfilled? The thing is, he is the way he is and he isn't willing to seek outside help so he is going to stay this way and you can't walk on egg shells nor can you force him to get help. Nobody forced into therapy will benefit from it and just hold it against the person who forced them into it. Can the relationship continue like this and flourish? If you love him enough to be superwife and deal with it; then you do it but if you know you can't, you are going to have to make that choice. I wish you the best.
HI, again, Lynne. I just read your response to all the advice. At the end of the day it is YOUR life and so you need to make a decision that you're comfortable with.
With that said, may I just say that I'm so sorry to hear that you have decided to stay with this man who you freely admit you don't love. You say you are staying for the sake of the kids and because it's hard to be a single mom and be the kid of divorced parents. You say you hope that maybe you and your husband may learn to love each other. What a shame! I understand the vows of marriage. But isn't one of the vows TO LOVE. You've already admitted you don't so you've already broken that one. And if you both don't love each other and he clearly no longer respects you then the honor vow goes right the heck out the window! And then don't plan on any cherishing happening either. At this rate you're as good as not married.
And yes, I'll agree with you that being a single mom is hard (I know because I am one). And that it's hard as a kid to see and know your parents are no longer together. However, I believe it is far more detrimental to your children to expose them to this loveless and respectless marriage. What kind of example does that set for your children? That it's ok to have a loveless marriage and to settle for someone you just tolerate? Do you think you're showing true strength by just deciding to put up with the current situation? Believe me it takes more strength to just admit that you both failed this marriage and that it should end! And your children are both young enough that, if you did decide to divorce now and set up your separate lives and set up an agreeable child custody arrangement, that THEY WILL ADJUST! The thing kids need most is lots of love and to be in a happy, nurturing environment. Kids pick up on more than people give them credit for and they are also more resilient than we realize...so long as they have parents. So long as, once you split, you and their father remain and are committed to being parents to them and give them the love and support they need, THEY WILL BE OK!
Just really be sure you want to remain in this sorry status quo you're in. I hope you find happiness...for you and for your kids.
Hi, Lynne! I'm so sorry you're having to endure this. Your husband's behavior is terrible and his treatment of you and the kids is horrid! There is simply NO EXCUSE for locking you and your children out of the apartment! That does border on abusiveness.
I really wonder if your hubby is jealous of you and the kids...like the bond you have with them. Perhaps he feels that bond is intruding on the bond you once had. Maybe he feels like he's lost himself somewhere along the way? I believe you both need counseling. Separately and together. If he won't go, then you go. If the therapist you went to doesn't help, go to another one on the list, but go! It'll be better for you and for your children. Going on your own to counseling, you won't be able to speak for your hubby, BUT you can speak for YOU, and for your kids! Talk to the therapist about what you're feeling and where your mind is going as you think about the situation. Don't focus on what's wrong with him in an attempt to analyze him, but DO look at what his current treatment of you is doing to you and your kids and what you want to do about it.
If he won't go to couseling, or classes or won't talk to you at all, then, to me, that says a lot about the amount of effort he is willing to put into making this marriage work...zero! If you're putting forth the effort...complimenting him, making efforts/gestures of love and affection and letting him know you are there to listen to his concerns and he STILL won't budge, then that's definitely a red flag! Then the question is, what's he hanging around for? What are you hanging around for? How is this intolerable situation of any benefit to your children? What is it he wants and needs from this marriage and from you? What is it you want and need from this marriage and him? As much as it's better for kids to have both parents together, it completely defeats the purpose if the parents are miserable together. There won't be any hiding of the misery because the kids WILL pick up on it. And it will permeate their minds and hearts and influence their future behavior. Better to be apart and living a happy life than together and miserable.
But it all starts with going to counseling, and then discussing with your hubby what's going on and what you will do together to fix the situation.
Good luck! I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers!
L.
Oh Lynne, I'm so sorry this is happening to you. Sometimes I get torn between being the strong, stubborn person I am and the flexible wife I am learning to be. When I am flexible, I find that my husband likes to take advantage of that (he's really like a child). So then it's back to being strong-willed and stubborn. But the point is, allowing the behavior to continue is inviting it in the future. You're condoning the it if you don't stand up for yourself. You have two children who need to see a strong female role model and here is a perfect opportunity.
You might find that your husband will not like this and that is when I would question his intentions for your marriage. His behavior is suspicious at best. He doesn't seem to have any respect for you and that should not be tolerated. My dear, you must have respect for yourself. My heart goes out to you. Good luck and stay strong.
I'll try to keep this short....ARE YOU KIDDING ME! Do you have any self worth??? Here you are working hard to make life for your husband and children easier...Why do you feel like you have to walk on egg shells? Life is way too short. Leave this man! You don't need closure, nor do you have to prove to him or the children he is the one that caused you to leave. And trust me, your children will thank you later. As a child, I would of rather lived with parents who were separated, happy and that could teach me what real respectful relationships were like....Even better, KICK HIM OUT!!! I feel sorry for your children. Please, be a hero to your children and your own well being. And don't even waste your time trying to leave to see if he'll chase you, old habits die hard. You can't change him, so don't try to. This is the best gift you can give beyond the redecorating, rearranging, and worrying about what not to say.
I completely concur with Heidi U.....you must read the proper care and feeding of husbands by dr laura. It totally changed my life and my outlook on life, marriage, and family. And no it doesn't beat you down as a woman...it will empower you I promise. The advice only works it you are married to a regular guy and having regular problems. If you are married to a creep...there is no help for you. I am divorced...married to a creep.., wouldnt have helped me. I should have read her other book...ten stupid things women do to mess up their lives before that marriage :)
Last but not least...no matter how tempting...don't discuss your relationship woes with anyone other than your therapist of clergy. I made that mistake..whining to my mom and sister...and when I forgave him and tried to work things out..family NEVER Forgets!
S.
Hi Lynne:
I'm sorry your having to go through all this. Please keep in mind,that you aren't alone. There are many women out there dealing with the same heartache.I commend you for seeking help,in trying to understand,and resolve the problems your marrage is experiencing,however,You cannot accomplish this on your own. As the old song goes.(It takes two)Your husband sounds extremely self-serving. You have allowed him to become manipulative and controling,because, somewhere along the way, you have lost some of your self respect.Your children are young,and a separation at this time, won't effect them quite as much as it would if they were teens,Teens would be more aware of what is happening. I have found, the older more obsevant children,watch and listen,and can eventualy loose a certain amount of respect,not just towards the manipulator,but towards the victim in the senario. They get angry,when you allow yourself to be used and abused.It sounds to me, like your husband has no interest in saving your marriage.It would appear to me, that he is trying his best to encourage you to leave.He doesn't have the guts to speak to you and tell you its over,so he works on making your life miserable,so you will get fed up enough to leave.I would tell him that you need to talk. I'd ask him, if he really wants to live out the remainder of his life like it is between you both.I'd tell him, that "I believe I deserve some happiness,and I want the same for you". His reply should be able to give you your answers.You have but one lifetime,you need to make your own happiness Lynne.(If you set it free and it doesn't come back,it wasn;t yours in the first place)I wish you the very best Lynne.
Hi Lynne, This is tough, but if you love your husband, and it sounds like you do, then fight for your marriage, and the family you both created with 2 babies. You said up until about 6 months ago things were OK,but you also mentioned that you have not told eachother that you each other in almost 2 years, today you tell that man you love him, weather he says it back, con't worry about that right now, but you tell him. You mentioned you are 42, but you didn't mentioned your husbands age, he may be going through a mid life crisis, there may be something going on at work that you don't know about. If he's home nights, chances are there is NOT another woman. I am 51 and I have been married to the same man for 27 years, at our 13th year he retired from the Navy, and although it was a family decision, it caused a lot of strife in our marriage, it was bad, we had three kids, and knew we had to do something, we joined a church that had some awesome marriages and these coules got into our lives and helped us, but what really turned things around for us was we went to a marriage retreat, it was a Friday, Saturday, and the Sunday morning, we lesrned a lot, but I came to the reality that our love for our kids had to be stronger than our anger towards one another, our antimosity towards one another etc. I wrote a letter to my husband, and poured out my feelings, in this letter I never said you did this or you are doing that, I said things I feel less impotant to you than other things in your life, what ever I was feeling, this way he didn't feel attacked, he didn't feel accused, write your husband a letter, in this letter take owner ship of the fact that you haven't expressed your love to him in a log time, tell him how you feel witout making him feel like you are blaming him,
What I did with my letter I taped it to the stering wheel of my husbnads car so when he left for work it he would see it, I also left stickies with little love notes on his streing wheele, sometimes a card, I always tried to find a way to express my love and appreciaation for him, even while was angry at him, I got very creative in my marriage, I have put stickies in his pockets, I have put them in his shoes, one time put theis really red lipstick on, and left a big lip print on the crotch of a pair of his white silk under wear that i bought him, he just never knew what I was going to do next, sometimes I would be in the living room and he would be in the bed room getting ready for work and I would hear him start laughing and I knew he found a stickie in is shoe or his under wear, and every stickie and something encouraging on it. While at home, I always offer him can I get you glass of tea or something, Now my husband has done alot of creative things for me as well, and I will share those at a later day if you are interested, I can't promise you that these things will turn your husband around, but when you know you have don't your part and you have done everything you can think of to make things better, it's still a feeling of satisfaction, Theres a lot more that I have done that I still do, so we can talk furthur, my e-mail is ____@____.com or you can just send me a personal message through mamasource. If you are a Christian pray for God to bless your efforts with your husband, ask him to reveal to you what went wrong, so you can have a better idea on how to repair it, but I'm here, I've been where you are at, and now 27 years of marriage we are best friends and we help other couples. J.
