Setting Boundaries with Family

Sounds to me like she is the one who owes you an apology. Having lived with an alcoholic, I can tell you that you did not overreact, and "she was drunk" is not a reason to give her a pass on unacceptable behavior. Her husband's refusal to come without her is not on you - it's on him. He made that choice.

I would do a half-back meaning I would tell her that she won't see the kids when she has been drinking. That's completely reasonable and if grandpa doesn't want to see them because she can't come because SHE decided to drink, then it's his loss. I wouldn't spend one minute worrying about it.

The problem with an alcoholic is they find a way to blame everyone for all the bad stuff that happens to them.

IF YOU WENT TO AL-ANON YOU WOULD LEARN THIS AND HOW TO DEAL WITH HER.

I am not trying to be mean here. I have been there. I come from a family of drunks.
You are trying to be the nice person in this situation but you can't youhave to stick to your guns.

Now find an Al-Anon meeting and go.......

Did you mean what you said??? Then don't apologize.

You told her that her behavior was the issue, so if she changes and corrects her behavior then she'll be able to see the children. If I follow the blood line correctly she would really not have any "rights" as a grandparent, especially if her drunkenness was brought up.

If you'd like to mend fences then, when she is sober and cooperative, explain your position to her. Explain why you said she couldn't see the kids, ie "I don't want my kids exposed to your drinking", etc. She can fix it or forget it.

I know all of this is easier said than done.

Good Luck,

M

ETA2:OK--sorry--your not looking for advice to go to Alanon.
Ok. Alanon might tell you that THIS is how you set a boundary:

"Carol, we love you and our kids love spending time with you. However, your choices are causing us to let you know that you are no longer welcome in our house when you are drunk, under the influence or drinking. What you do in your own house is up to you. But please know that if you are drinking, our kids are not permitted to be there without me or Bill with them."

ETA: stop using your kids as pawns and shields.
You & your husband need Alanon. Go!

How can I say this?
You have an alcoholic in your family.
Yet everyone still seems to think that they can apply reason to the situation?
You know that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over yet expecting different results, right?
No O. seems interested on getting educated about dealing with addiction.
So you can expect LOTS more insanity.
Good luck!

I'd be avoiding her for a significant "cooling down" period. Don't invite them over, don't visit for awhile. Screen your calls for awhile. See what happens. Maybe after some time apart from you and the kids she will do some reflecting. I think she needs to make an effort to mend the relationship. I wouldn't apologize first if she started the argument. If she just keeps on being angry, I would stick to your guns. She really doesn't have any "rights" to your kids.

I think that you really DO have to stick to your guns. Your father-in-law SAYS that he won't see the kids without her. What he is doing is enabling her behavior, one reason why she'll never clean herself up with the drinking by the way, and he's trying to use the children to enable her too. What a terrible thing he is doing here. Instead of telling her to straighten up, he's acting like her.

She has NO grandparental rights. NONE. She's not even a blood relative. Ignore her and let them both stew. When your FIL comes back acting rude again, tell him that HE is the one who has written off his grandchildren. If he wants to see them, that's up to him, but she may not come along. It's HIS choice. And walk away from it and let him decide.

Quite frankly, until he learns the lesson, she never will. I can't imagine putting my kids through this with a family member who allows this kind of behavior from a drunkard.

Backtrack if you feel like you want your kids to have her in their life, but set up rules, and make clear that if she breaks them, she won't have access. Maybe you need a good chat about expectations on both sides, that includes you setting boundaries. I think you've had these in the past?

I'm having one of those conversations with my own mother this week. She is narcissistic, so manipulative, and she keeps pestering my kids about something.

Decide what you can and cannot live with, and then set the boundaries. If you aren't clear what they are, call a friend to have a chat.

I found with my own mother that she need to be told clearly about things. I repeat myself a lot.

I'm not sure you overreacted at all. It may be that there was little point in arguing with someone who was drunk, but that's not the same as overreacting. Does that make any sense?

Look, lots of alcoholics and alcohol abusers are in my family. I don't condemn them but I don't feel I hold all the blame for getting into an unwinnable argument with one of them! You had every right to draw the line at excessive drinking and the threat of grandparents' rights! It's very hard to stay calm and just have the presence of mind to say, "By all means, spend money on that, and I'll be happy to tell the judge about your illness and compromised state."

So my advice is to not engage her, and not engage your father-in-law. He's in denial, or he sees the problem but is not yet able to confront her because the problem just seems so huge. If he doesn't have to leave her at home, he doesn't have to admit the problem is so big, and he doesn't need to draw a line in the sand. Maybe he thinks he can ride herd on her, I don't know. But he has the same non-confrontational style as your husband.

You may not be able to do anything about either of them, although it does sound as if your husband is on board with Stepmom not being around the kids. Maybe you stop short of "you're never going to see them again" but

So I would encourage your husband to see his dad as much as he would like, with or without Stepmom, but not in your house. I would encourage the kids to make drawings or little crafts now and then to send to the grandparents. I would send photos now and then, such as for Christmas or Grandpa's birthday. That leaves you ignoring Grandma's birthday but you could send her a photo too. Father's Day and Mother's Day are their days to, to receive cards and a photo or drawing (on the card or separate) - that doesn't mean you have to see them, but it says "I accept you as members of the family even though I don't see you with the kids."

I would not invite them over. If they plan to come over to see your husband, you need enough notice to leave the house with the kids for the day - but that's kind of passive-aggressive and not so desirable. Your home is your home, not a place you have to leave. If they just show up, then you have a choice of not answering the door, or taking the kids and leaving. Or, you can allow them in IF she is sober and IF she is behaving herself - then you have to decide what to do if she starts drinking. But again, that puts you in the position of policing her.

Right now, you say that if you back down, she will not take you seriously. Then you can't do that. You absolutely must do something to say that the children will not be subjected to her unless and until she gets serious help for her drinking. That doesn't mean abstaining for the day. It means a predictable pattern of behavior, either with rehab or a significant length of time being "dry" and having her behavior calm down. You cannot take the chance of her saying something in front of the kids about her right to see them. They do NOT need to hear anything like that. So unless and until you can trust her mouth, she stays away. But the problem you have right now is that Grandpa cannot be trusted as a barometer of Grandma's sobriety. So that's why you draw the line in the sand. It would be great if your husband can support you, but if he can't, stick to your guns.

I do think Al Anon will help you find the vocabulary to deal with everyone involved. You can also get some good books in the library - you don't have to spend a lot of money on them right now, and there are plenty to choose from. It can be lonely if you are the only voice of reason. The main thing is to find a way to accept her and not her drinking behavior, to make it clear that you are not, for the time being, rejecting her but you are rejecting her behavior. Alcoholism is a family disease.

But if you don't go to Al Anon, which you do not have to do, I would not backtrack right now because it will enable her, fuel her, and let Grandpa feel he "won" by refusing to acknowledge the effect this has on you, your husband, your kids, and the family dynamic. If there is ever a reasonable discussion of these issues, you can wait for one of them to admit a problem and then say you got very upset about having this conversation, dealing with the ongoing problem, and being panicked about their safety and emotional wellbeing. Good luck and let us know how you are doing.

People with addiction issues know how to play the victim so you feel bad for them. Don't allow her to put your family in a situation you don't feel comfortable with. She's not entitled to grandparent rights since she's a step grandparent. Stick to your guns and put your children's best interest first. If your fil don't want to visit without his drunk wife then it's his choice.

i'm all about boundaries. they're important. they should be clear and some should be non-negotiable. that includes allowing drunks around your kids.
but this sounds more like you're using your kids as reward and punishment. that's not cool. and yes, engaging in any sort of rational discussion, argument or negotiation with a drunk person is a waste of time.
i think that instead of being concerned about being taken seriously by someone whose judgment is impaired, that you make this call based on what's best for your kids.
she sounds pretty toxic. obviously she can't get grandparental rights. but you've got their grandfather to consider. i'm betting you can place appropriate boundaries around their relationship with your kids without it all hingeing on you sticking to your guns or not.
and yeah, they talk about this sort of thing at al-anon.
khairete
S.

she got drunk, you called her on it, and now she is pissed off at you and expects you to apologize, afraid not. what can you say to her," i am sorry you are a drunk?". your husbands father refuses to come by without bring her along..fine. let him stay at home with her. that way you dont have to deal with her or the person who makes excuses for her. what would happen if mz. drunk got behind the wheel drunk with your kids in the car and was in an accident? do you think she would take responsibility..afraid not.guess who mr excuse maker and mz drunk would blame..YOU! these are your children , not hers, she wants to be around kids drunk..let them be her own..not yours.she has no "grandparents rights" because she not related to them..her husband needs to grow a pair a deal with her instead of making excuses for her..get caller id and block her calls. K. h.

Drunk twice in 1 week? No, I wouldn't apologize. And I wouldn't ever leave the kids alone with her.

If she was that drunk she probably won't even remember the conversation/argument you had with her.

I lost a ton of sleep over confronting a drinker in my family about something awful that they said while drunk and this person never even remembered.

I'm with Fuzzy. Stick to your guns.

If you wish to try to repair the "damage" for Grandpa's sake, then put a time limit on how long you wait until you lift the "ban" on step-Grandma. Just make sure it's a good long time and that if you ever get even that slightest hint of alcohol on her then she is out for another "6 months" or however long.

If she is drunk her argument has no credibility, period.

Keep this boundary in place and let the chips fall where they may. Those in denial need to feel the consequence of the step mother's drinking or their enabling behavior. Upholding boundaries you set with them will help them feel the consequences, see the "cost" of their behavior, and maybe start to open their minds to change the behavior.

Please consider what the others have said about attending Alanon. Or in the very least start reading Alanon recommended books. It will make how to handle these situations much, much clearer and build your confidence on how you are handling them so that you aren't second guessing your decisions.

Best of luck to you

ETA: I hope that you and your husband are not drinking around her or you lose your credibility also.

I think you did overreact by saying NO MORE EVER. However, I would just tweak that and say, LIMITED visits with the kids. If you normally would go over say after Church on Sunday's and stay until dinner, then just go for an hour or two. So she can still "see" them without it being drawn out. You didn't say how old your kids are. Mine saw my mom under the influence once (she had a reaction to new meds and alcohol) and it scared them enough that they are non-believers in ANY alcohol at their young ages. lol Not necessarily a bad thing. So if it were me, and I have been there with family, I would just limit time spent with them, not eliminate it all together since that is not realistic. And if she's drunk, then that's a deal breaker and you just turn around and leave. No one needs the drama. Good luck.

Personally if anyone ever threatened me with grandparents rights I would never speak to them again. She is your DH's stepmom and one who didn't come into the picture until after he was an adult so she really doesn't have a leg to stand on but her husband may. You may want to research grandparents rights in your state and follow up with a lawyer. Regardless she nor anyone else has any rights to your child. She never would be welcome in my house again nor would I ever go to another event with her there. It doesn't matter if she was drunk or not. Do not backtrack on anything you said. Your kids, your rules. If she has poor behavior then treat it as such and follow through with whatever your consequences are.

So you're the odd man out. It's going to be a battle that might cost you your marriage. He's going to pick his mother, it's programmed into them.

When he has visitation he's going to let his kids see his mom.

You need to find a way to manipulate this whole thing to your side.