Rotten Friends

It can be difficult to be in different seasons of life with "friends". They don't have children, so they have no idea how difficult it can be to find a babysitter, especially at the last minute. I doubt that they are deliberately trying to exclude you by choosing non-family sorts of things to do. It probably wouldn't occur to them to go to the circus or the zoo or the children's museum. There wouldn't be much in it for them. Perhaps they don't care for children; they have that right, but it certainly doesn't make for easy get togethers with you.

I highly recommend Dr Laura's books on husbands and marriage (Laura Schlessinger). Feminists hate her (and hate men), but her books explain the differences between men and women, and what men need. They need to be #1 to their wives, and admired and praised and thanked for what they do, just as women need to be wanted and appreciated by their husbands. Your relationship should come before your relationship with the children (studies show that that makes for more security and happiness in the home). It helps to plan ahead for date nights, and have sitters lined up if needed. After reading The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands, I made a few simple changes (stopped nagging, stopped pouting, got off his back about his hobbies, started welcoming him home with a smile/hug instead of with anger that he was late or whatever) and our marriage is now fantastic. I'm no longer hurt and hostile most of the time, and am deliriously happy with our marriage (unlike before when I used to throw around the D word and was forever pissed off). We have a heated discussion about 6 times a year (or less) instead of that many times a week or day. He looks forward to coming home now, and spending time with me, instead of dreading it. Perhaps if your hubby was more fulfilled at home, he wouldn't be looking to maintain ties with people he no longer has much in common with. I'm not trying to insult you at all; I've been there. I can't recommend the books enough. I'm reading the Proper Care and Feeding of Marriage now. Of course, maybe he hasn't grown up yet for whatever reason (still trying to have a perfect childhood?) Dr Laura has another book that's still sitting on my shelf (I'll get to it...) called Ten Stupid Things Couples Do To Mess up Their Relationships. It is probably worthwhile reading as well. I don't think I would say any more to him about severing ties with these "friends". Let him come to that conclusion himself.

It helps to have friends with similar children to your own (another couple with 2 kids about your kids' ages) that you can trade babysitting with. People are often happy to do it when that means you'll reciprocate. Parents of young children are often home for dinner and all that anyway, and might not mind being called upon at the last minute, again if it means that they can do the same with you on occasion. Good luck!

I'd tell my hubby that it's perfectly okay for him to have friends and interests that he and I don't share, but I would really prefer to step back and allow him to have his friendship with them.

I would suggest that you stop discussing these people in a negative fashion. Your hubby knows darn good and well that they aren't very good friends. Men tend to have lifelong friends - so it's really hard to accept that he's outgrown the friendship. I'd be willing to bet that there's also an element of rebellion. YOU say he's outgrown the friendship, so by golly he's going to prove you're wrong. Plus, he's got a sympathetic ear in these people when he's upset with you.

Be polite when you are around them - but that is it. Just be professional. (I know. I know. It's technically a personal relationship, but you should treat this like a business relationship. You're in the business of taking care of your hubby and keeping him happy. So, don't talk badly about his friend and be superficially pleasant. You will never change their opinion about you - so don't try. Your hubby has the only opinion that counts.)

I think if you step back and give him space and time your hubby will probaby start stepping back, too.

Hi L.. I think Jessica pretty much hit the nail on the head with all her advice, and also, TJ had some good advice, and additionally, I suggest a two pronged approach.

The first, "if you can't beat them, join them," so-to-speak. I suggest trying to befriend the woman, since you know her husband used to be friendly. Maybe invite them to your house for dinner a weekend night here and there, so you can sort of re-establish a friendly rapport with your husband's best friend, while getting to know her as well. Plus, if they're at your house, then at least you know where they all are. Find out if there's something special she makes, and ask her to come over and show you how to make it, even if you already know how, or you make it a certain way already yourself. See if there's not a way you can get together with her during the week in the daytime, like to shop or have coffee or lunch, just so you can get to know her. Suggest to her that when your guys go out, you and her could do something without them, to have some "girl" time. You need to try and get her on your side.

Now, the second prong would be for you to be the main thing your husband thinks of as often as he can think of you. I suggest if you don't already do "naughty" things, start doing them. It's not manipulative at all to play to the fact that men are visually stimulated, and it's the visual, fantasizing, as well and the physical aspect of relationships that keep them going. In fact, the experts suggest that even though you don't have to be especially creative to interest a man, it pretty much has to be done often. In my opinion, it seems to me like men had a bit of ADD, and you have to entice them frequently. If you keep them mentally interested, as well as physically interested, I think that will go a long way for you. You have to make your husband more interested in you than he is in anything else.

Send him photos of you on his phone, the more risque, the better, BUT, keep in mind that you don't want to send him something you don't want someone else to see on accident if he's not looking at his picture mail in private, so maybe a "warning" text message, something like: "Hun, guess what I'm wearing right now? Want to see? Go somewhere private in 5 minutes, and I'll show you. Want me to wear it tonight?" Stuff like that.

Also, you say he's an adrenaline junkie. Did you ever indulge with any of it either before you married him or after? Find out specifically what he likes to do, and be the one he goes and does it with. I know you can't do it all, but try and do a couple things with him here and there, so he sees that you're trying to share his interests, or try and get him to explore new ones with you. Get the two of you into something you can both do together.

As far as family time, I think if he really loves you and the children, if you make these efforts at reconnecting the two of you on a more fundamentally coupled nature, then everything else will fall into place. He may feel like you lost sight of him as a man and mate, and think of him more in the utilitarian sense.

I somewhat agree that once we get married and have children, it sometimes stops being about enjoying life alot, and becomes more about being "functional" and practical. We have to remember to have fun, both individually, and as a couple. When we're happy individually and as mates, then the rest will come along.

If he continues to be selfish, and none of this works, unfortunately, I don't think there's anything else you can do. You may have a tough choice to make as to rather you can stay together or not.

Best of luck to you and your family,

K. W.

I feel so bad for you. It hurts when you do not feel as important to your husband than others. I've felt it before. I am surprised that if your husband is around your age, that he isn't more mature by now. I spent many years of my husband always taking friends sides over me and it always ivolved alcoho. We met every Fri. night after work with a whole group of people to drink and dance and have fun. I would get so angry because I had to work on Sat. and I wanted to go to bed my midnight and he didn't want to leave. He would say, go ahead and go, I'll get a ride home. The other couples there would always leave together. I would go home crying. Finally we discussed how bad our marriage was getting and why. Most of our troubles had to do with going out with those friends and drinking. We decided to stop meeting them and work on ourselves. It was the best thing ever.

Your husband needs to see the importance of your family and make better choices for them. If these friends are rude about you, they are not very good friends. He must be complaining to them if they are saying bad things about you. Why else would they not like you? Are you rude to them in person? He needs to get his priorities straight. Why did he marry you in the first place and why has he turned against you? Anyway, if those friends are willing to do some things with you, have them over around the kid's bedtime. Then if they get out of control, your kids won't be there to witness it. Then you can feel out if you still want to be around them and make plans for next month. If they still give you a bad feeling, then don't have to hang out with them. Tell your husband your reasons in a tactful way. He needs to respect you more as you are a couple and he has made a commitment to you. If it doesn't soak in then maybe tell him that he needs to go live with them until he decides who is better for his life. You have children to think of. If I had it to do over again, I would be home with my boys on Friday nights and spend quality time with them, not these people, who in the end, did not support us as a couple and would stab me in the back. You can still party once in awhile, but it is time to start weaning off the partying.

Remember, it's not up to you to entice him with sex or anything else, he needs to love you enough to want to be with you before anyone else.

Well, this sounds serious, especially if these people are talking badly about you and he is not defending you. Your spouse and your family should always come first. However, I do believe that people should have friends and do things with them without their spouse. I think it's healthy. If this was just a guy friend and not a married couple, I would suggest that you try and make a deal. For example, I go out with my girlfriends twice a month and my husband stays home and babysits. Some of these women and single, some married, some with children, other's without, but many of the childless friends are ones I have had for years, so there is a long history there. Besides, sometimes it is nice to talk about things that are not child related! My husband on the other hand has had a hard time keeping friendships with childless friends, so I encourage him to go out twice a month with the friends that he does want to hang out with (the ones with kids). It is hard. It means one night a week where the family is not together, but in the end I think it helps us all be more interesting and happy people. In your situation, I am not so sure because it is another married couple. We never go out with other married couples without the other person (I would feel like a 3rd wheel), I just think that is a little strange. What kind of things do they do together? Are you sure that they aren't trying to set him up a lot? Especially, if they are encouraging divorce? Maybe if you tried to make some plans with these people instead of them making the plans, you could arrange childcare ahead of time? That way you are showing that you are trying and if they flake out or say no, it's not your fault? Maybe agree that you guys will plan to go out with them twice a month and that's it? What about setting up a childless evening with all of you and then when it is winding down, saying something like, "Wow this was a lot of fun! I really wish that we were able to do this more often, but it is so hard to find a babysitter sometimes. Maybe next time you guys think of something fun to do you can let me know as soon as possible so that I can find a babysitter. I feel bad sending (insert hubby's name here) without me all the time because I can't find a babysitter." Than at least you know that they know the problem and you aren't nagging or putting the blame on them. Just a thought. Maybe try and set up more "dates" with just the two of you or with other married couple with kids? Maybe he just needs more adult time? Does he have other healthy friendships that you can encourage? Maybe having more evenings with other couples with children could help? My parents used to have evenings at our house with friends after we went to bed. They played games and cards, ate dinner, had drinks and we jsut slept through it! I haven't tried it, but I have a VERY SMALL house! It really sounds like he just needs to move on from these friends, but won't. I don't see how you can make him if he won't. I would at least try and see if you can fix the problem with these people, although you may be looking at much larger issues here. It could be he is only using them as a scapegoat and really just doesn't want to grow up and be part of a family. In that case, I don't know if there is anything you can do to save your marriage. Good luck. I wish you the best.

Hi L.! Men have very sensitive egos and don't like to "feel" manipulated. So, approach is everything:-) I recommend starting with yourself also. Make some new friends perhaps through a womens group. You will be destined to find a woman that you like who has a family and perhaps your families can get together for family activities. Seek the kind of people that you admire and that you would like to be like and surround yourself with them and embrace them. Good luck:-)

Really feelin' for you girl!
It seems to me that many of my women friends are married to men who are more like children. Yes, he needs down time with his buds and Yes, he should be able to do fun things and Yes, so should you. The truth is...he has a family to attend to with more than just $$. The children are very young and NEED him around, not just to complain about what a burden they are but to create and foster the foundation relationship they will have together for life.
The family schedule should reflect the catagories of demand: 1. family together 2.dad alone 3.mom alone 4.couple together 5.mom with kids 6.dad with kids. Me time isn't the only time there is. Unfortunate but true, ya can't make him do anything he doesn't want to and for some, the "me" phase lasts for life.
What I did when trying to get mine to more fully participate was to stop waiting for him to do things with the family, particularly in the summer. Found some Mom buds to hang with and take little trips, cook outs together, picnics and adventures. When daddy "has to work" and you just languish watching kids, nobody has fun. Do what you need to. He'll see the joy happening and maybe want to join in.
As for the friends,,,they just are not your people. If and when they have children their song will be different. Build you posse of support. Just keep loving him and calling him into becoming a fuller, better human being. Best to you L. M.

I'm just feeling your pain! My husband thankfully doesn't have many friends, but rather his video games that take him away from family time, and it seems nothing I can tell him will make him understand how I feel. His friends are all the guys he works with, most of them are single or divorced and they do invite him to parties, bars, etc..always things that don't involve kids and it irks me to no end! Most of the time he doesn't go. I pick those nights to "make a special dinner" or entice him somehow to stay home too. Or make the night before he's planning on not coming home "extra fun" after the kids are asleep..if you know what I mean..then he thinks about it the next day and wants to come home again! You might want to take the direct approach and ask the other friends if they don't like you, they might just think you don't like them! Some people just aren't kid people, or they aren't until they have their own. Or maybe they can't have kids? In my experience people who can't are jealous of those that do and that could be an issue. Just make a life of your own with other families and let him see how fun it is, or go out with your single girlfriends and leave him with the kids, or even better take him and the kids somewhere with you and make him watch them while you mingle, he'll get the point hopefully! And my husband's one bad friend is his brother, so it's that much harder to shut him out!

L.,

I truly feel your pain. I agree with what TJ has said, that is some good advice.

Sympathetically,
Melissa

My name is C. D. and I was married to a man that was similar to your husband. It was all about him, work, golf and his friends. I had 2 young children at the time. Unfortunately, I divorced my first husband and married a wonderful man who I love very much. He is a family man and puts me and our 3 children (2 by prior marriage 1 with him) first. We rarely do anything apart because we love being with each other.

You have to ask yourself if you want to sacrifice your happiness for someone else. He needs to ask himself whether he really wants to be a family man. It may only get worse. If you have been to counseling and he refuses to take the advice, he has chosen his friends and work over his family. This is serious.

Have you tried having adult time with him? Maybe getting a babysitter so you can go out together and rekindle your relationship. He has to remember what marriage is about, relationship, compromise and children.

The only thing that you can change is yourself. Just make sure that you are always trying to show him the love you have for him. If you are a fun, kind, caring, loving wife and great mother, he will see that and love you more and slowly begin to see how that is worlds better than the relationship with that guy and his wife. But the more you are uptight, bringing it up in negative conversation, "nagging" (in other people's opinions), then you will be less appealing to him.

There are two great books that I highly recommend, not just for "troubled" marriages, but for all married people - The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman and Love and Respect by Emmerson Eggrichs. My husband and I had some great Ah-Ha moments reading those books and they helped us understand each other and they also prompted conversation between us.

If your husband feels he still wants to be with his friend, but you are the one always staying home, have your husband plan a cookout and invite them over. That way they can be together, but it's on your turf. If they decline, then you are finally not the one turning down the date.

Hi! Just a thought... even though you may not really ENJOY this, what if you suggested to your husband that you and he trade off taking care of the kids when you get an invitation? Maybe if you go off with these friends while he stays at home, he will appreciate what it takes to do that last minute and try to see things from your perspective...? Or you could suggest that the women stay with the children one time, the men the next. Maybe then the friends would see what it means to be caretakers.

I honestly don't know what to tell you. I've never been married - but I can imagine how hurt and upset I would be if my husband acted that way. I know you've been to counseling but have you tried sitting him down and laying it all out for him? Showing him that he is choosing these "people" over his family. Explain to him what the alternative (life without you and the kids) could be like for him.
I am a 24/7 single parent and two years old than you. I miss out on A LOT of fun stuff (sittes are expensive and surprisingly hard to find) - but being afraid of "missing out on the fun" is a pitiful excuse for letting someone mistreat your family. I go without those friends (cause they aren't really friends).
Maybe it's time for another family member or friend to step in and point out his foolishness?
I have a hard time understanding husbands that put anything before there family. I empathize with you and hope that you are able to find a solution before his foolishness over these "people" causes permanent damage.

Hi L.,

I think it is important in a marraige to allow each other some personal space in the social arena. I know these friends you have described are not your ideal, but hopefully over time your hubby will realize that and move on. My husband and I have common friends, but also seperate friends. He has his sporto guys and I have my moms with kids.We allow each have one night a week that we each get to go do something "fun" whether it be alone or with our own friends. He is on a softball team and will go play then hang with "the guys". I usually go to a yoga class and/or meet up with a friend for a meal, a drink, or a walk. We both love the freedom we get and appreciate each other for allowing it. Most importantly it is scheduled and predictable. He knows he has every Tuesday if he wants (unless an important family event is going on)and I can look forward to my thursdays. This way neither of us feels like we are getting "stuck" with kid duty while the other gets to go have fun. It also allows us to do something extra special with the kids when the other parent is out for the evening. Your guy can tell these friends that he has "x" night of the week to do something and you won't be expected to go. If they can't hang that night, then it is their problem, not yours. Hopefully if he feels like the decision is his, he'll leave these friends.
Oh, and save the babysitter money for when you two can go out on a date either alone or with friends you both want to be with!

Yuck. During times of difficulty in my marriage, I remind myself, as much as I would like, I can not control other people's choices or behavior. BUT set boundaries for yourself and your kids.

I would tell your hubby before this comes up again exactly how you feel and why with emphasis on what you would like to see from him. Tell them that you don't like their vibe and don't wish to hang out with them. If he chooses to, fine but you would hope that he would be respectful of you when you're not there.

I would also be sure to do something fun with the kids while he is gone not only to take your mind off of his choice but also to have something to tell him that he missed out on while hanging with the "hostiles". Let him go without fueling the fire. No nagging necessary. I think it would be fine for them to know that you choose not to go. Let them think what they will. It doensn't sound like their opionion should be worth much to you anyway.

Also consider "dumping" kid watching duty on him last minute to do girl only activiites too to remind him you can have fun without him too if necessary. That didn't come out excactly right but I think you know what I mean.