My almost 4-year-old daughter isn't listening in preschool intermittently. She runs away from her class out of the classroom, either into another classroom or outside to the playground, and will not stay on her rug during story/song time. Since she loves preschool, we have dealt with this by asking the preschool to call us and have us pick her up when she does this so we can put her in time out at home. This worked to correct her behavior the first time, but we have had to pick her up the first two days this week because of her misbehavior. The preschool wants us to come in and sit with her when she misbehaves so we can "guide" her through the routine the rest of the day. We believe that this extra mommy and daddy attention will just incentivize her to continue misbehaving. We have a meeting with the school director tomorrow. We have had her evaluated and she has some abnormality with her attention span (my brother and father have ADHD). Should we go in and sit with her, find another preschool (we can't afford more than the $150/month this preschool charges), or try another discipline technique that we aren't utilizing yet. I have an appointment with her doctor at the end of the month for an assessment. Help!
Thank you for everyone who responded. All of you have definitely given my husband and I a lot to think about and questions to ask going into our meeting tomorrow. I should clarify a few things that were mentioned in the comments. First, my daughter attends a parent co-op preschool 3 days a week for 3 hours at a time. The co-op element, and the fact that we work in the classroom up to 2 days a month, is what makes it so affordable. Second, my husband and I stay away from virtually all processed foods and religiously read ingreidient labels for unwanted additives and colorings, and we feed our child this way as well. Third, my husband is on SSI and receives less than $900/month. I recently completed my master's degree in public health and I am unemployed looking for work. But since I just finished school, I do not qualify for unemployment. We are living off of moderate savings, so another more expensive preschool is just not possible right now. Fourth, I have not considered medicating her as of this time. I have a background in medicine and have been researching ADD extensively. Most ADD medications are amphetamine derivatives and are contraindicated for children under 5. However, one sure sign of ADD is something called the "stimulant paradox" where medications, like amphetamines, that would get normal people wired will calm the person who has ADD. My brother exhibited this characteristic, but as I will not medicate my child at this time, I don't know yet whether she will as well. Fifth, the inability to stay in the classroom or stay in the circle is something she did extensively for the first month of preschool, so we were there everyday correcting her. Then she improved and we were able to leave her on her own for nearly 2 months, except for once when we had to bring her home, but her behavior improved due to that (she LOVES preschool). The two sessions before Christmas break she started acting up again and during Christmas break we made it very clear to her that if she started not listening to her teachers again, she was going to come home again. When we do have to bring her home, we remove all the toys from her room and she stays in there for the remainder of the time she would have been at preschool. She finds this to be quite objectionable, and it worked the one time, with threats of that happening again being enough to keep her behavior in check until the last 2 weeks. I have had her evaluated by the school district, and they found her attention for things she wasn't interested in to be a bit short. I have contacted the school psychologist again for additional advice, but she hasn't called me back yet. My husband and I agree that sitting with her will not help, but might reinforce the behavior. At first we knew she didn't know what was expected of her so we didn't have any problems being there. Now she knows what is expected (she's been able to control her behavior before), but we think she is being defiant and we don't want her to think that being defiant means mommy and daddy will come hold her hand. Tomorrow we are going to suggest she be moved to another class. Her preschool is divided into four rooms and a playground which two of the rooms have access to. Her current teacher opens the door to the playground for fresh air since we live in the SF Bay Area and the school does not have A/C. However, my daughter has been seeing this as an invitation to run outside. I tried exercising her on her tricycle for an hour before preschool yesterday, but it didn't help. But her teacher is realtively new (this might be her first year teaching), and so my daughter might benefit from a teacher with a bit more experience. Also, she probably does need something to keep her hands busy during rug circle time, which is something the school psychologist suggested. We will take all of this with us tomorrow and I will update this posting with what happens. Thank you!
I'm very confused. She isn't 4 yet and she is wants to go do something else, and this is seen as a problem? Anyone else think that this isn't taking into consider the normal development and attention span of an almost 4 year old?
She 4. Find a preschool that will enforce the rules instead of calling the parents to do it. Both of my boys have ADHD and I know there were moments in preschool where they had to be guided to behave properly...but I was NEVER called in to do it.
Back up the teachers and let your daughter know that THEY are in charge and she is to do what they say.
She is 4yrs old. Try giving her wholesome foods in the morning for breakfast (minus the sugar). Remove/limit any distractions at home (TV, music, anything that can cause hypersensitivity). Ask the teacher to provide consequences and/or rewards for the times when she does sit still. Sitting with her in class once or twice might help, but try to find out whether or not she is just not adjusting to keeping still in that type environment versus home where she might be accustomed to running freely about. She may not be able to "turn" off the two. Again, she is just 4yrs old...Maybe the teacher can try seeing if she is bored at that time and giving her another activity during circle time.
I think its too early to diagnose ADHD, but with your family history its definitely a strong possibility that she has it. I think you're right about not going in to sit with her-she'll quickly learn that to get extra mommy/daddy time she should misbehave. How about positive reinforcement. A sticker chart and a reward when she behaves a certain number of days? If it IS ADHD, then as I'm sure you know, punishment won't help and it really isn't fair to her.
I agree with Katie on the ADHD diagnosis. I feel like many people are so quick to diagnose these things when it usually is just a developmental phase. Is she having problems with the routine and transitioning from one thing to the next? My son was and his teacher created this book about the day schedule which we use to read to him the night before and the morning of school. It really helped him out and he went from having terrible days to having great ones. I also think he has matured a ton so she may just be in a developemental phase.
The sticker chart that Katie has mentioned below has also helped my son. We have it that once he gets five stickers for good days at school and he can go on an adventure. He loves it. Good luck. Stick with the preschool. It sounds like they are willing to work with you to try to find positive solutions.
I like some of the suggestions AMomof2 offered. When I had preschoolers wander off (very, very occasionally) I would calmly bring them back to where they are supposed to be. Aside from leaving the class, this is something that I, as a teacher, would want to work with the child on in the preschool setting instead of having her taken home. Is there a specific reason the teachers feel that they need you to help guide your daughter through the day? Is there something happening which they wish you to observe firsthand? I ask this only because I found the presence of the parent to usually be MORE of a distraction to the group (and child) and that children often revert to their parent/child relationship behavior instead of that 'higher' behavior we often see of a preschooler within their group. (Not always, but many children do better at preschool, behavior/expectations-wise than they do at home.)
I have a friend who helps kids with attention issues in the public school setting. I would talk to a behavioral therapist and see if there are any therapeutic tools to offer which the teachers could integrate. For example, having a small ball of moldable beeswax to play with might offer enough resistance for her fingers to help her body feel that she is 'busy' and then can settle herself down to listen. (I actually found that kids really like to be busy with playdough or another activity while I read longer stories to them. This is when I would bring out lacing beads or lacing cards for the group.)
One other thing: you are paying $150 a month. How many days a week is your daughter going? If it's just one, she may have a harder time getting used to the routine. If I were your friend, I would want to know if this is a place where the teachers have a lot of experience and education, and would be able to help a child with these sorts of needs, or if you would be better off waiting for a situation which offers more support for your family. (FWIW, I am used to hearing of around $250 or $300 a month for preschool programs. It costs a lot of money to run a preschool program!)
She's in preschool. She is just now learning how to behave in school and in a group setting. Give her some time! PLEASE, PLEASE do not medicate a 4 year old. This really is typical of a child who is 1) spoiled; and 2) 4 years old just learning how to be in school.
IMHO, people are too quick to medicate; everyone always wants to think it's a chemical imbalance or whatever rather than a learning/discipline/respect issue.
Of course picking her up and taking her home didn't improve her behavior. The school didn't punish her so there was no causal link in her mind between the bad behavior and having to go home.
I think the school's suggestion is right on target. Go to school with her; do not dote on her or make it fun for her. Make sure she knows that you are there, not because you want to be, but because you HAVE to be because she does not behave.
Then, insist that the school implement a punishment when she misbehaves. That's the only way she is going to learn that the SCHOOL expects good behavior and that the SCHOOL will punish her for bad behavior.
And what the he!! does "abnormality with her attention span mean? I hope you got a further explanation of that term.
Aren't the teachers supposed to be guiding her and gently disciplining her? How is she getting so far out of reach before anyone notices? I think I'd look for a new place. I am so sick of seeing "ADHD" thrown out there by society when a kid isn't perfectly behaved. Sometimes a little more structure and boundary are what a kid needs, not prescription drugs.
Well... not for nothing, but she's four years old and she's just now learning how to properly behave in a school setting. If ADD/ADHD is in the family, and if she does have it, it's certainly possible that it's manifesting itself now. Your daughter sounds just like my eldest daughter, who is now 12, and was diagnosed officially with ADHD over a year ago now. In our case, medication has been a godsend and I wish we had evaluated her much sooner. I just thought that was how kids are.
Anyway, in regard to your daughter, I think that removing her from the classroom and being the ones to discipline her are actually counter-productive when she behaves against classroom rules. The discipline MUST come from the teacher and/or classroom monitor. By removing her from the classroom and bringing her home, you're making it look like you don't trust the teachers to handle discipline... that you and Daddy are the only ones who can and should discipline her. That's a set up that can really bite you in the backside and make discipline impossible for even minor issues in the classroom.
And then what happens when her day is extended? When she attends more frequently? What happens when the expectation from her is that she misbehaves and will be picked up but that doesn't happen? Would that cause an escalation?
I do like that you pay attention to her diet. We follow the Feingold Diet here for my eldest daughter due to her ADHD and ODD. We also follow it for my middle daughter due to her Autism, ODD, ADD, LD, and related issues. When some of the chemical dyes and HFCS make their way into our diets, you can tell with behavior, headaches, upset stomachs, etc. Now all three of my daughters, including my neuro-typical daughter, willingly avoid the trigger foods. We do a lot of home cooking and I'm teaching the girls to be label readers. I'm vigilant about it and always have been, so that at school the girls know what to avoid when sharing snacks or when buying ala cart. I can tell when my eldest daughter buys a strawberry Pop Tart, for instance. I can tell when my middle daughter gets a cherry Popsicle. When they get home, there are are rage issues and crashing, attention issues, and more.
Your daughter isn't too young to have the public school evaluate her. Have the independent evaluation you had done in hand, and the school will be more likely to do it without question. That evaluation you had done entitles your daughter to services. The school evaluation, which will be free, will simply give the school an idea of where to target the services. Your daughter will likely get a 504 and behavior plan, but will also help identify if there are other issues to look at and if so then you can follow up independently on those as well to see if you need an IEP and PPT.
ADHD is highly genetic, so it's wise to have that on your radar. Contrary to what people inexperienced think, it's not something doctors will quickly medicate (and in all my years of dealing with ADHD, I have yet to meet a parent or hear of a doctor who was quick to medicate) and it's not a condition involving lazy parenting. Our son's ADHD symptoms first became clear in preschool. So, I'm thrilled you're getting the assessment just to be safe.
However, I do question this school's strategies. Having parents come in seems like a reward to the child, so I agree with you there. I definitely wouldn't do that. It seems like they should be taking the lead in correcting the behavior and have consequences in place if she's not following the rules. They should also keep in mind, too, that it's preschool and kids are going to have a hard time sitting still.
In your position, I would be looking for another preschool. They're giving you signs they don't want to deal with your child and preschools can and do kick out kids. That happened to our son.
Best of luck to you! I hope you find someplace that's a much better match and also learn you aren't dealing with ADHD.
Have you thought about having her evaluated by the town to see if she will qualify for the free preschool? You are right, that behavior is not normal for a 4 year old. You can get her services without any diagnosis. I would be very honest about her and her abilities and see if she qualifies. Next year is Kindergarten, not Pre-K...is that correct? The expectations for behavior are much higher.
Since you had her evaluated by the town and she didn't qualify, your next step is getting the reccomendations of a doctor if you, the doctor, and the school really think there is a problem where she can not be in a regular preschool. Just because you don't qualify once does not mean you wont qualify a second time. Has at least 6 months-1 passed since she was evaluated by the school?
I'd try another preschool if I were you. My son had these problems and worse, and yet all but one of the preschool teachers he had found some way to manage him.
If she misbehaves in class she gets to have your attention and get out of going to school. SO you need to leave her at school and let her have natural consequences. Which are staying inside for recess if she gets that punishment, letting her do her work while the other kids play if it's something that "needs" to be done. A craft or art project would not be something that "had" to be done.
She's in pre-school. Next year she'll be in Pre-K. That's when she'll be needing to sit and do work at a table. She's age appropriate as far as I can see from your post.
You so described my daughters situation. WOW I am sorry I have to say I am so glad to hear I am not the only mother with a daughter having similar issues.
What we had to do is convey to my daughter that the teachers are there to help us learn and play. They are not there to discipline her. That is our job as her mommy and daddy. For our parenting my children tend to really listen the 1st time to daddy. Just the sound of his voice and direction they know he means business. Me on the other hand I say and do the same thing and they push my limits. I am learning though, that I mean it the1st time. So will all that said, they would call me to talk to her while I was at work. She would listen and say yes mommy I will listen, but 20 min later she was up to no good again. They even brought in a behavior specialist to view the classrooms. They had to get permission to evaluate my daughter. I finally told them you need to call her daddy. They did and the 1st time he had to leave work to go get her, she didn't like daddy make her do. She had to pack up all her toys, even her baby she sleeps with and put them away in garage. She was not able to watch her cartoons for a while I don't remember how long. Taking her toys away hurt her so bad she never wanted the school to call her daddy again.
The behavior specialist told the school that then needed to switch a few teachers around. Some teachers dealt with certain ages better, because of their educational background.
Life is so much better at preschool. I think having the right teacher with the age groups, backing the teachers at school, and daddy getting involved helped.
GOOD Luck to you all!
