Preschool - Anyone Else Been Through Something like This?

Age 4 is tough to tell what's going on in their little minds - but it's not to early for evaluation. My kids' pre-school teachers noticed stuff with both of my kids and in our school district they will evaluate any time after age 3. I think it's a NY thing - and since we both live in NY it's worth a try. I see you live in NYC so the school district may be more difficult to deal with since it's so large - but it's worth a shot.

With both of our kids we found that the pre-school teachers were pretty accurate in their assessments. Our daugher was referred for speech - and although she did have a delay in 2 areas - it was not significant for her age and she didn't meet the threshold for services although they suggested she'd be helped by getting speech therapy - which we did.

For my son the pre-school teacher suggested he be evaluated for speech and to help him with "attending". I have no idea what they were talking about. Ends up my son has language based learning disabilities, speech delays and ADHD. I was not happy with anyone about this - I was convinced they were all wrong - I was NOT going to drug my kid, etc. Well - to try to make this long story less long - he's now in middle school - after much testing and much services over the year we've determined that he's very very smart in math, science, spatial perception (think engineering, building) but has severe delays in language processing (de-coding sounds in reading, mixing up sounds, turning things around - dyslexia). He was one half point shy of honor roll in his first quarter of middle school. He has come a far way from first grade when I was often in tears thinking he'd never be able to read!!!

The bottom line is that you see your son in a very controlled, calm environment - in your care with much of your attention. The teachers see him in the type of environment he'll be in for much of the next 18 years - and if he will have to work for a living one day - he'll also have to work around other people in busy environments. My feeling is if he has even a small learning disability - he will be so much better off to have it addressed early than to go to schoon in aonther year or two and sit in class feeling liek he has no idea what's going on becuse he's too busy dealing with his learning issue. Kids will compensate for a problem but fail to learn all they could based on their intelligence if they're spending all their efforts compensating for a problem.

A few authors to look at "A Mind at a Time" by Mel Levine (and his other books) and books by Cynthia Tobias "How They Learn". there are many many famously, brilliant people who've had to work around learning disabilities of other differences in the way their mind works as compared to others. It is separate from intelligence - and often has no bearing on a child's intelligence - although not ddressing it can impact their ability to learn.

From what I've seen ove the last 51 years of my life, some of the most amazingly intelligent & successful people I know have some kind of learning issue - and it's made them a better person having to work with it and around it.

You will work thorugh this with your child - it's NOT a big deal unless you allow it to be. You've been able to do all these great things for your child and give him all of your best in these tender years - you'll figure this all out - and when he's in middle school like mine is now you'll be able to look back at this time as a turning point for your son. You go mama!

I think you are taking this too personally. The teacher spends the day with your son and she obviously has experience with many more children of the same age group than do you. This is not a personal attack on your son and even if he did have some issues, it is not a reflection of your or his worth. I know you didn't say that, but you just sound so offended that someone suggested there could possibly be an issue with your son, and that is not what this is about. As far as your discipline techniques, please do not just assume that this teacher is so incompetent and does not know how to handle a child of your son's age. I am sure she is in the classroom for a reason and has dealt with many kids and issues over the years. Also I do not think you should expect a "special" discipline routine to be implemented for your son. Teacher's cannot spend the whole day giving one child a hundred warnings before it is time to do something. I do think that by this time your son should be able to follow directions in school the same as the other children. If he is the child struggling with this, then he is having an issue--sorry. I don't see why you would not have him evaluated. If there is a problem, then your son can get some help and if its nothing than you get good news. Sounds like a win-win to me. He probably is just a little behind socially, but why are you attacking the teacher for doing her job and being attentive to your son? She brought her concerns to you in an appropriate manner and has experience that you do not. I can understand worrying when someone tells you that your child may have a problem, but I just don't get your outrage over this. The teacher has suggested an evaluation, not open-heart surgery. If you don't trust the teacher and school to do the jobs they are trained to do--then maybe you should try homeschooling so you can have complete control. I am not writing to be harsh, but you are blowing all this out of proportion and honestly your son is the one being dragged through the mud. Try and understand that your son needs to be able to get along in school in a classroom setting. You can't be dictating the way a teacher runs her classroom every time your son has a problem. I think you need to try working with this teacher and not against her, and start giving her some credit that she may know a little more than you when it come to teaching and behavior she sees everyday.

I own an operate a Montessori preschool and boy is this a pet peeve of mine. First, I never allow my teachers to address serious issues that is my job as director and even as a director I am in no way qualified to diagnose a child. Everyone is so quick to label children just because they are not perfect little soldiers. In all of my years of being in childcare I can honestly say I have seen maybe 3 children truly with some type of behavioral, social, or learning issues. I know with most aftercare programs there are a lot of young girls heading the classrooms so just think about it it's like when we were in school the substitute teacher is there and things go haywire. Aftercare is in most facilities play based so of course you have room for little structure, and mostly free play. I do not know your son but I can only guess that the chaos in aftercare is affecting him. If he was fine before and that is the change then you have two choices in my opinion. Pull him out of aftercare or let him figure things out for himself. Trust me I am a mom before anything and I know how it hurts to see your child struggle. We never want to see our children have difficulty, but that is what teaches them life lessons, which also is what preschool is about. Letting your children figure things out for themselves is what makes them independent, and strong adults. In my opinion is much more important then the academics of preschool. I DO NOT like the fact that this teacher gave you a diagnosis, it was very unprofessional and I would speak to the director about your concerns. If you son is new to preschool they need to be patient with him, most children have been in preschool longer and grow up with the comfort of the same friends. I would also try to have a friend over one on one, or meet at a park so he can learn to engage one on one first. He just needs to get his confidence up. Like you I raised my children to be kind, respectful, etc. Unfortunately not all kids are like that so it is going to take your son time to learn how to deal with these types of personalities, and when he does he will be fine. Take the therapists advice and try not to step in unless you really have to. Good luck and do not worry I am sure your son is fine!!!

I always crack up when I hear the "has difficulty transitioning" line. WTH! They are kids and they are doing something they enjoy...duh-it IS difficult quitting something that you are having fun at. I know it is for me! And they are just kids. Seriously, I am sick of these teachers playing doctor and spewing their "issue" pyschobabble at us when our kids dare to venture slightly out of their observed 'norm' for their agegroup. I was told this about my son and told to consider holding him from Kindergarten even though he has a March birthday! Thank God I didn't listen to them...that would have been the singular biggest parenting mistake that I would have made. He thrived in Kindergarten and is doing amazing now in first. Never a single issue.

So you should request a meeting with the teacher AND the director where you lay it on the line. Explain to them what the experts that you have consulted have said. And then tell them unless they can produce for you the teachers advanced degree in childhood development you would be heeding the advice of the experts on this.

My friend just dealt with the same sort of "teacher diagnosis" you did. I recommended (since it was completely covered by insurance) to get her son checked out by a professional or professionals. I told her it isn't like she has to take any of their advice or recommendations, even if they find something like ADD or ADHD, it isn't like anyone can force her to medictae or do anything she doesn't feel comfortable with (in fact no one even has to know about her taking him to a professional and/or the results). I explained that it might set her fears to rest on all his "issues" and "diagnosis." Once he was reviewed then she could take the information and do whatever she wanted to do with it. It wouldn't cost anything, or do anything negatively either way, besides give her a starting point of how to handle it.
She took him in, and spent an entire day getting him diagnosed. The doctors confirmed there was absolutely nothing wrong with him...just that he was a very emotional and passionate kid. Once she felt better about the whole situation, she brought all the test results, and sat the teacher down (no blame or anything...just showed her the results and discussed them all). The teacher felt good about the fact my friend took action and listened to her...and she has been much more understanding, and better about how to handle him. They have since talked and the teacher has explained that things are 100% better...whether it is the teacher's attitude or my friend's actions...her son is doing much better.

I think from the what you have explained, he probably has not adapted as well as some of the other children who may have been there for several years already. My daughter has been in daycare/preschool since she was 19 months old. They started teaching her to clean her table mess at lunch at that time, wait for her name to be called, and to stand in line and keep her hands to herself. This never occurred to me and I was amazed when I saw it. Why would you teach your son to keep his hands to himself if he has been by himself? Why would he wait until his name was called if he was the only one there. I think the school needs to realize his situation.

On the other hand, the school seems to have concern for your son and is kind enough to step up and speak to you about the situation and their observation. Maybe there were other ways to approach the situation and maybe it is not what you would have done, but at least they spoke up. Better to know they said something than to have him be left behind.

Now your eyes are open to it and you have educated yourself of the signs. Do your best to work with the teacher and see if he has any improvements. See if you can get him to discuss his day and try to work on the subjects she mentioned.

Best wishes.

Mom, I teach preschool and its time to find a new preschool, this one does not sound like a good fit. It is the job of teachers to teach him how to transition from one activity to another and preschool to after school care. Does the after school pgm involve lunch and naps? Is he in the after school care with much older kids, if so I would not do this. The children should be no older than 4-5 that he is with. I don't think preschools should have older children with preschool age, it is not a good mix. Also just curious, how many days a week is he in preschool/daycare and for how long? I would not have my child in preschool all day M-f if that is the case. Part time is best at his age. Good luck.

Sigh... I have been through something very similar. I would watch this closely.

In our case, things seemed "ok" until they started evaluating the children who needed to be "prepared" for kindergarten. At that point (after near a year at this school), I was told that I needed to establish a "drop off routine" which I thought we had and was never told it was an issue. Then I was called for several meetings because my son was a "puzzle" and they didn't know how to work with him. I was also told that he had "boundary" issues.

I will say that my son is a high energy, excitable kid with a very creative imagination. He's also a very sensitive kid, and his anger, confusion, hurt feelings often translate into anger. He had difficulty transitioning to new activities without warning, and was more sensitive when he was tired. Many of the times that they had problems with him were at the end of the day between 4-5pm.

This was a play based preschool with a good reputation and seasoned teachers. But it was also a pretty loose program in terms of structure. Kids had a choice of table activities or playing freely outside in a very large play yard and at some point were called together in groups to participate in circle time with children who were their age. I don't think that the supervision was that great, and their definition of helping teach boundaries, was letting kids play wildly and when the boundaries were crossed that child was labelled as a problem.

My advice is to meet with the teachers and explain your parenting style and what is effective for him, and then closely monitor the next several weeks or months. I so wish that I would have trusted my gut and been more of an advocate for my son. And I wish I would have pulled him out of the program sooner. I felt the same way that you do... he had friends and seemed to like it there until the end. It nearly broke my heart when he told me he no longer wanted to go there because he felt like the teachers were "mad at him a lot of the time."

He started kindergarten this past August and has done wonderfully. I almost didn't start him thinking that he was too immature ( a young kinder with an August birthday), and that he had all of these "behavior problems" that would "not be tolerated in kindergarten". His teachers in kinder looked at me like I'm crazy when I asked about things that his preschool told me were a problem. He loves school now.

I do have to also add that the difference with some of the behavior may have to do with the fact that he is in a morning kindergarten class ( vs. an afternoon preschool). But I think it's more likely that the difference is that kinder is more structured and the expectations are very clear and consistent. Plus his teachers are awesome and know how to deal with little boys.

Good luck Mama~ Trust your instincts.

Sounds like you need to find another preschool where they will work with him and not try to make him fit the mold. My now 18yr old had similar problems in preschool. I took him out and put him in the public school's pre-school program and he did not have any problems. He loves school - still does! He is off to college in the fall - I can hardly believe it! Enjoy each and every day with your little guy!!
YMMV
LBC

I understand this is hard for you, but try to take a step back and put the shoe on the other foot. Yes, this teacher made a "diagnosis" she was in no way qualified to make. She should have handeled it very, very differently. She has a tough job dealing with large groups of kids every day. Remember how exhausting a birthday party is? Think about dealing with an even large group every day with a few kids thrown in who take extra attention. Then see if you can find it in your heart to cut her some slack and turn this into a learning experience all around.

She clearly needs to learn where her authority ends and some serious interpersonal skills. So in your conversation, this is something you can make clear. Your child does not need an evaluation according to medical professionals, you see yourself as her partner in childcare and want to come up with a plan for dealing with what she sees as issues. By offering her support you might get exactly what you want: a reevaluation on her part of your son and better understanding of his behaviour in future.

i am a school nurse and generally feel that evaluations are ok, but this sounds like maybe more of a teacher issue than a child issue. First of all, what is this teacher's professional background.?

When my kids attended preschool, I thought the teachers were actually certified educators, then came to find out that they had just attended some short, simple community ed classes. My daughter then worked at a preschool after high school and was called a teacher even though she had no background in early childhood education. Therefore, I'd really like to know what points of reference this preschool worker is using.

Have you spoken to the director of the school? She may be unaware that this teacher has said this to you. The need for evaluation is too painful for a parent (even if the need is valid) for the recommendation to be given without a team meeting. I'd also like to know what they've tried as strategies for helping your son.

Your post touched my heart. Don't let anyone other than your pediatrician or other physicians label your son especially at this age. If you lived in CT you would find that you would be able to take legal action against that teacher/school for suggesting your son has ODD or sensory integration disorder as a diagnosis must be done by a health care professional only. I get so mad when schools think they know more than they do. I have 5 children, my oldest turned 28 today and my youngest turned 12 2 days ago and with both of them their teachers tried to label them. With my daughter we contacted her opthamologist who flipped out on the school system as they had her labeled as neurologically impaired which was far from the truth as she had a rare eye muscle disorder which he corrected when she was a toddler. Then when we started down the same road with the school system and my son I immediately got an attorney who threatened them with a lawsuit and insisted that all the staff involved have something put into their employment file stating what they had done and what disciplinary action was taken. After all the garbage they put us through with both of them, including taking us to due process for testing, it was determined that our kids did not have anything wrong with them. You need to stand as tough as we did, you are your son's advocate and biggest supporter, don't let the schools get away with anything. Do what I did tell them to do their job and teach and to butt out of the health of your child. Sorry if I sound tough, but it is a sensitive subject and God I wish you lived in CT so that I could help you advocate for your son; I would go to the meetings and chop those teachers down with my experience. Let me know how you make out. Hugs to you and your son.

I have!

My son began having what was considered behavioral problems at daycare at 3- 1/2 and we were asked to leave the daycare after some incidents. We spoke to professionals and they relayed as your friends did, that at that time, it was way too early to make a diagnosis. When he started his new pre-school at 4 we made them aware of his history, but at that time, we did not know if it was environment at the daycare and the lack of professional experience to manage my son, versus was it my son, his disposition and needs. The pre-school immediately brought in professionals (as well as we requested our own professional) to observe him and then the pre-school early in the year mandated he be covered in the classroom by a special education intervention teacher. In a matter of many short months, my son went through an extensive evalutation period (over 6 professionals through the DOE) and then a review we were able to get 15 hours of coverage at the school through the Dept. of Education. However, we needed to cover my son privately through our own means for the remaining hours, as the school (Director) mandated it in order for him to stay in school.

Here is what I learned from this experience.
1)Private Pres-school institutions greatest concern is for the safety and welfare of all children and therefore protect themselves. You think that they would be able to manage all children, but on occasion, they need further support. During the process of getting the extra support for my son, we received phone calls expressing the support need, one time they sent my son home early for bad behavior (absolutely ridiculous at 4) and generally just tortured us.

2)Make decisions based on your own instinct and make sure you are comfortable with your decisions. In hindsight, I realized that all though my son is willful, and he definately benefited from the extra attention and rules, it was way over the top and unfair at many times for him versus the other kids.

The years between 31/2 and until my son went to Kindergarten were very hard on us as a family, because we always had this threat over our heads. Here's the clincher, from the day he walked into the public school kindergarten door, my son has been phenominal! Because of the evaluation process we were able to take advantage of many of the DOE services, OT, Speech, Therapy and CTT classroom - Collaborative Team Teaching which means there is a special ed teacher and a gen ed teacher in the classroom. His teachers keep telling me he is doing great and that they are waiting to see this child they read in his IEP (individual education program), but he just isn't there. He is even completely changed at home.

We also learned in early Sept. that my son was severely far sighted, which we believe accounted for so many of the behavioral pieces that were relayed to us - stepping on kids on the rug, pushing through the line - the fact was, he didnt see them. How ridiculous that all the special support that we even paid for, never suggested this.

Here's my last piece of advise. You know your child, and don't let the school send you down a path that is innappropriate. Reach out to the Department of Education for evaluation and support. The earlier the better for both you and your child. And just love your child. Time goes super fast!

Good Luck!
M. (____@____.com) - feel free to write me back!

I will give you a short answer: yes, technically your preschool teacher should be aware that all children in that age group are at different stages in their socialization AND she should know how to handle children that have trouble transitioning, sharing and throwing the occasional tantrum.
My daughter has been in full time care since infancy and is typically doing GREAT at her center, but even she has the occasional bad day and fortunately we are with an excellent center, with trained staff and if ever anything comes up, they will usually already have a plan in place on how they are planning to address the issue.

One thing to consider is that sometimes the mix of kids in the classroom makes a difference (as well as the capability of the teacher). Some pre-schools/daycares have mainly kids who have been there for a long time and sometimes the groups get quite cohesive, so it is hard to be a new kid (even at this age) and if he is the only or one of few new kids, then his lack of adjustment will be especially obvious.
If he's fine in the mornings, I would consider staying, but if his teacher is already singling him out, it could become a problem down the line.

At this point I would suggest that you request a note from your pediatrician regarding his assessment of your son and make an appointment with your son's teacher AND the director of the center to discuss your concerns and address hers.

I have a REAL problem with preschool teachers throwing out a diagnosis that they are NOT QUALIFIED to make. Most professional, good centers do regular student assessments that are shared with the parents, who can then take those with them to get their concerns evaluated by a professional. Rattling off a bunch of incidents and throwing some "diagnoses" at you doesn't sound very professional to me.

One thing that I have learned is to address issues with preschool teachers with the center director right away. This does not have to be confrontational, but it will help reminding the employee of their practices and both sides can set expectations. After that you can still decide how to proceed.

Good luck!

grrrr...I taught toddlers through pre-k for 15 years and this irks me to no end....Teachers are NOT doctors, therefore should NOT diagnose...in all my years, I had 2 children with true issues....in my opinion, these "teachers" should take the time to bond with and build repoire (sp?) with the children and parents. Once you find a way to connect with a child, you can then tailor your program to fit their individual needs. I had one child that would throw a fit when you told them to sit down, but if you asked her to please sit down next to you (or another friend) she did with a smile on her face. You need to be flexible b/c every child's home life is different and to be truly effective, you need to accomodate for that.
That being said, I had a conference with one mom that was stand-offish from the time she walked in, I had no idea why or what I did....turns out that while I was ready to show her how her child was excelling at his learning, she had it in her mind (from his previous teacher) that we were going to say he was ADHD....when she said that, I responded with ummm no, he's an active, normal 4 year old BOY! Once she realized that I wasn't going to LABEL her son, she relaxed and together we were able to make his pre-k year full of successes.....That being said, I would speak to the director, tell them of your concerns and requests. If they don't accomodate you or at least come to a compromise (a bit of your style mixed with a bit of their style) Then I would look into finding a new teacher or school...(By the way, the two that had true issues, the jist of what I said to the parent was-I noticed these things, they concern me...do me a favor, speak to your ped and come back and prove me wrong/tell me I'm crazy ( lol) .Just my opinion. Hope it helps

Sounds like a normal 3/4 yr old to me - especially if he's undergoing change. They aren't 5, 6 or 7...but sometimes I think these teachers expect them to act like they are. I have a 3.5 year old and I totally relate! Sometimes I personally think my son should be evaluated - LOL but thats my own issue when things aren't going smoothly and to be quite honest, I feel like his teacher doesn't handle things to well when her "students" are being to emotional, clingy or are having difficulty. If it was just her in the room, I'd be freaking but THANKFULLY the two assitants are much more sensitive to this and know how to handle it better. Perhaps your sons teacher is the same...does she have children of her own? At this age, I think it helps in understanding...my son is so attached to me and makes a big deal when I drop him off, but not when his father does. They whole school feels bad for me but the insist he is fine and as he's getting older I'm realizing its true. YES, he misses me and would rather be home with me, I am thankful for that. He is also attached to items. Comfort items. Hes still little! When he moved to a new classroom it was very difficult for him for a LONG time even though he knows the teachers, knows the kids, etc. One thing I found out was that at the end of the day - like the last hour when the regular day was done and they were just waiting for the final pick ups that they were jsut putting all the kids in one room and letting them have free time or watch a movie - well, the movies WERE NOT for 3 yr olds IMO...Toy story, Dennis the Menance, Nemo etc and my son was HORRIFIED by parts of these movies - b/c he over analyzes right from wrong and hasn't had the chance yet to grasp the GREY areas of life. The teachers pretty much laughed not understanding his thought process and they kept saying he was fine he was fine until I realized he was fine b/c he was being a "good boy" and didn't want to cause a problem so he endured it but when he saw me he broke down or he really didn't want to go back. So I finally FREAKED OUT and said that first of all - they should continue to do their job until the end of the day and if that means sitting in there classroom and watching the children then they should do it. I also said, that while many children don't pay enough attention to these "kids movies" my son does and he doesn't let things go plus hes a good boy who wants to listen to his teachers - so I told them NO MORE MOVIES. It just blew my mind that this went on for so long! So now...the younger kids stay in their classroom PLAYING, READING and doing what THEY ARE SUPPOSE to be doing, not sitting in front of the tv with the older kids watching movies they didn't understand while no one was there to discuss it with them (like I do at home) Ughh...so we moms know our children and know when we should or should not take the advice of professionals and in the "daycare" setting, unfortunatley a lot of thesse "teachers" don't have the credentials they need - they are young girls with little to know education or they are young girls with an education but no real life experience at this point so while there are some FABULOUS, INTELLIGENT, EXPERIENCED teachers, there are also some that aren't...so stand strong, and be confident in your mothering to confront this situation and do what it takes to make it all ok! Good luck! Life lessons....when its all done congratulate yourself and see what you learn about you, your child and the people you will come in contact. I remember my mom saying to me that "this is the first of many battles you will go to for your son" when I had to deal with my first issue...it was enlightening!

I don't necessarily think he has any learning or behavioral disabilities. I think the issue might be from a misunderstanding on your part about what 4 year olds are expected to do in that school's preschool class. I don't mean to sound harsh, but the concepts of sharing, circle time and socialization were focused on in my daughter's 2 and early 3 year old class. She is now 4 and her preschool class has lesson plans and a set curriculum. Since you mentioned the preschool has a good reputation, the school probably is accredited and had younger classes to teach school culture and expected behavior. For him to jump into that setting (with kids that have been in that curriculum for the past few years) is not an easy fit. It doesn't sound like he was ready for that kind of structured program.

There are many preschool programs that introduce the school culture and expectations to a 4yo and will prepare him for kindergarten, but his current preschool might be geared for children that are already used to the structured academic setting.

Sounds like you are doing all the right things. Good job pulling the afternoon thing - that's a lot of time away from mom at that age. Also, all that follow up with your friends/contacts. I think it's great that you share your experience of what works at home. Teachers are the Lord Almighty - they don't know every strategy and it does take time for them to figure each child out. Something I have found useful (for the future) is to write a letter to the teacher before school starts, introducing my child, perceived strengths and weaknesses and discipline strategies that work for us. All her teachers have thanked me for the help. I give written permission for the letter to be shared with non-main teachers (ie art, music, pe, or any speech/OT/PT - I have a child with special needs).

Something I have found is that I really have to trust my instinct and go with what I think is right, while being open to learning from others. I am the expert on my child. I sometimes wish the doctor or teacher knew the answers, but over and over again, I find that because I do research, talk with others, find things out, that I do know a lot. It's frustrating - but true.

Smile, be friendly, believe the best - and trust your instincts.

You know your son the best. You raised him and know how to deal with whatever he needs. So first of all, my suggestion is not to get too crazy about this.

On the other hand, his teachers are able to compare his behavior with the behavior of many other children of the same age. And this is not something you have been able to do. So my suggestion here is to find a day to observe him for the entire time at school so that you, too, can compare him. Then you will have the same information that the teachers do, and you can see if you feel you need to do more.

My child, a girl, was just the opposite. She had many problems, including a sensory one, but being a good little girl who does not want to attract attention, her issues did not get diagnosed until 6th grade. Unfortunately we were not aware of her suffering before then.

So, I think you are wise to watch, question, investigate, and listen to your heart, where you will know what you need to do for your son.

Best of luck!

Oy.
This teacher is probably used to having kids in preschool that have been in daycare for years. Obviously those kids respond differently to preschool than kids who haven't really been away from their parents on a daily basis. I think that your son's behavior sounds pretty darn normal to me. I would go with your thoughts; talk to the teacher and tell her that after doing research yourself and talking to the people you have, things are fine. If she is going to have an issue, let her know that you two can meet with the director of the preschool and if it becomes an issue, you can remove your child from that facility. Good luck!