Prejudice and Parenting

In my household, we believe that giving begins and ends with giving. We never question whether it is deserved or not.

Some people don't have the ability, or choose not to understand, a lifestyle, (whether it be state aid, parenting, finances, religion, etc.) that is not the same as theirs. This mentality is nothing new and will always exist.

I give my DD the facts and keep my opinion out of it.

I guess I am not thinking people are raising their kids with a prejudice against people who use food stamps. I hope they are discouraging them about making food stamps a way of life.

I have no problem with a family getting food stamps when there was a job loss or illness or medical bills or several other short term safety net functions. I would hate to see any children going hungry. I think any of the ladies you say are prejudice would have that same kind of compassion.

At the same time I know that we live in a land that provides so much opportunity to better yourself that staying in that position is hard to understand. You have to have a lot of bad luck (happens) or a lot of bad choices. We have little way of knowing which is which. That's what we need a better handle on as a country.

Before you peg me as never having seen hard times, you'd be wrong. But when I was little, very few would have taken food stamps. I ate a lot of bread, potatoes and greens and beans. I lived in a lot of cold houses. It didn't make me want to stay there. It motivated me to not stay in poverty.
That's what I share with my kids. We share our food and faith and love with people who have less than we do and more than we do and we benefit from knowing both.

The short sightedness of people on this site critical of Americans on welfare would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

I NEVER hear them talk about the TRILLION plus dollars spent on the Iraq war. God, what good we could do for our country right now with that money.

I NEVER hear them talk about the criminals instrumental in the financial crisis of 2008 who created the climate that allowed so many more people to NEED the social services in question. Trust me they aren't on food stamps and don't give a fig about anyone who is, they're doing just fine.

I NEVER hear them talk about corporate welfare, tax loopholes and subsidies that allow highly profitable insurance, energy, agriculture and pharmaceutical companies to take advantage of us all.

It's easy to blame the little guy. Throughout history human nature has proven that during tough times people like a scapegoat and that scapegoat is ALWAYS the people on the bottom.

There are cheats and liars everywhere, lets clean it all up and see where we make the biggest gains. Welfare fraud is chump change compared to the great rip off of the American public going on right under our noses.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/25/government-subsi...

There's good choices and bad choices. Taxpayers get tired of cleaning up peoples bad choices. Taxpayers support helping for a duration of time just NOT long term (bad choice after bad choice).

I support: a family that lost their job/s
I don't support: a woman that has multiple children by multiple men
I support: a woman that is a widow with children
I don't support: someone who is always late to work & keeps getting fired
I support: a woman & children & her husband abandoned them
I don't support: a family that takes vacations but doesn't pay their bills first

I LOATHE when people say that Conservatives don't support welfare or other forms of social services. WE Conservatives give way more *financially & volunteer time* than any other group. Those that call themselves welfare supporters are usually stingy with their time & money, DON'T BE FOOLED.

Yes, we tell our kids that ANYONE can fall on hard times & we have been blessed not to. BUT even if they fall on hard times they still need to work hard to better themselves and make GOOD CHOICES.

I don't think that anything is going to change where this is concerned, mom. There are really judgmental people out there. They haven't had this happen to them, so they lump all the people together who get food stamps and public assistance - those who have fallen on hard times and are responsible, and those who are out to fleece the system.

I think too, that people really don't understand that it's a small amount of our overall budget. They also ignore the good people and only focus on the stories of the fleecers.

Those who teach their children to look down their nose on the poor are short-sighted, in my view. Do they REALLY think that their kids might never lose their job? What would happen if their own grown kids ended up needing food stamps? It certainly is ironic when that happens.

All of us need to be of the mindset "there for the grace of God go I", but these judgmental people will never think of it like this. They don't want to because they believe that they are inherently better than other people.

In regards to you not wanting to talk to other parents at drop-off, I have one question. How will you change this problem if you don't look at it head-on? If they start gossiping in front of you, change the subject. Talk about something worthwhile. It might only take one parent to help with this. Be that parent. It's worth it.

Dawn

Dang, all people who need help must be total slackers, yeah?

When my father died, I was given some things that he had in storage that had been given to him when his mother, my grandmother, passed away.

There, among her things she'd hung on to, were War Bond ration stamps for her and her kids. My grandmother hadn't used all of them, but the names of her kids were on the "tickets".
Sugar, bread, flour, eggs, baby formula, milk, etc. Things we easily take for granted were rationed and you couldn't get them without the vouchers.

Today, for me, these ticket booklets are priceless reminders of what my grandmother must have gone through trying to ration and raise her babies.

Were they "entitlements" ?

At that time, the government said you can only have so much of this or so much of that.

~ There will always be judgemental people. As long as you are doing your best and teaching your kids that sometimes people need help, you have no worries. I've been a single mom for 15 years. I've worked my butt off to raise two kids, but there have been times I've needed help due to illness or broken bones, etc. I've raised two of the most compassionate, understanding, and giving kids you could ever meet. They have a heart for people who've had to struggle sometimes. They are very generous and caring.

I didn't read your other post about a rude community service worker.
There are rude people everywhere and you can't get hung up about it.
You can't take it personally.

I've managed to raise giving children who have a heart for people.

Dogma, pragmatics, and politics aside...I've raised my children to care for those who have even less than we do because there is a world full of them.
It could be due to unfortunate circumstance or their own doing, but it's not for us to judge.

Gossip is never a good thing. Not for those who engage in it, and not for those who hear it and give relevance to it.

Just my opinion.

What I share with my daughter, niece, and nephew is that we are accountable for the decisions that we make and need to make our choices carefully. It's wise to finish school and to obtain a skill or degree that allows one to earn a reasonable living. It is wise to wait until financially able to care for a child before making a child. It is wise to avoid drugs, alcohol and other addictive substances. It is wise to live within our means and to save for a rainy day. It is wise to abide by the law. I also teach that it is unwise to have babies that they cannot afford, to screw around in school and to do things to mess up their futures. We are accountable for the choices that we make, and no one owes us a living, housing or antyhing else. I also teach them that there are people who do fall on hard times through no fault of their own (loss of jobs, illness, death in family, just really cannot catch a break, etc), and they are are deserving of care and compassion. There are people who fall on hard times through their own poor decisions (teenage pregnancy, dropping out of school, addiction, living beyond their means), but we should still have compassion on them to care for them while helping them get back onto their feet. Then, there are people who have made the decision to milk the system. Those who work the system are taking advantage of people like me who made sacrifices needed to take care of ourselves, live frugally so that we remain within our means, get up and go to work for a paycheck that is a fraction of what we earned because the government redistributes a huge chunk of our own earnings. What I teach my family's kids is that they don't want to rely on the government to take care of them, that sometimes it cannot be helped, but it is not ideal. I'd also recommend to them that if they do find themselves in need of government services that it is probably not a good idea to complain about the services they receive from the government on the taxpayers dime. If that sounds politically incorrect or prejudiced that's kind of too bad.

I have been a "public service worker." I'm a retired police officer. I'm very aware from personal experience that many people need and deserve public assistance. In my work I was also aware of many people who are getting public assistance who need help learning how to become mature and responsible adults. All too many people believe that having babies is their personal right even when they can't support them financially let alone nurture them emotionally.

We, as a society, are raising children to feel entitled to government help. Gone for many people is the belief that they are personally responsible for their own welfare. It's because of these people that public service workers such as the one you experienced are less than cordial or compassionate. She probably saw at least one someone earlier in the day who were rude and demanding with her. Unfortunately, she's burned out and took her frustration out on you who didn't deserve it. As an intake person she gets paid very little money and has very little support within her own system.

What I tell my grandchildren depends on their age. I sympathize with my grandchildren when they notice someone panhandling or who appear in need of help. With my 9 you grandson that's all I do. With my 12 yo granddaughter, who is having difficulty with being personally responsible, I sometimes use that occasion to talk about personal responsibility and how it's up to her to get a good education and learn how to get along with people so that she won't be in that position.

Her mother has received state aid. My granddaughter knows that it's available to those who are hard working so that they can be self- sufficient. She hears me emphasize the importance of becoming self-sufficient and to learn how to be self-sufficient her entire life. We talk about waiting to have babies until one is able to financially and emotionally support them. We talk about going to school so that one can have a career and not just a job. We empathize with those who haven't been blessed with strong family support like she is.

So, yes, just like with every other value important to me I talk about welfare with my 12 yo daughter and also did with my own daughter. I adopted my daughter and she came from the welfare system. When she was 7 or 8 she suggested I go on Welfare like her birth mother so I could stay home. We talked about why I wouldn't do that. We talked about how I got to be where I was in life and how she could also be successful.

I have noticed that judgment seems to be more common now than when I was younger. At the same time it seems that relying on the state for basic needs is also more common. I talk with everyone even when they're judgmental because I empathize with them too. Our system does need change. I understand where they're coming from. I understand that they have very little if no experience with the family that is barely making it and in need of assistance. They are prejudiced because they've not had the experience I've had with those who do deserve and need the assistance. All they've seen are the free loaders who are unwilling to find a way to become self-sufficient. There are people receiving assistance who don't talk about it. I understand them wanting to keep this from others who are often too quick to judge. Unfortunately that all too often results in people only seeing the free loaders, the families who've been on assistance for generations.

I value openness and honesty in appropriate places and times. I've learned that a "soft answer turneth away wrath." When I'm in a situation as you describe I try to express sympathy for the workers hard life. I might say, yes it appears that way but I have another view of the situation. If this only causes more bad attitude I stop and go out the door. Sometimes it results in that person smiling and becoming more friendly.

I don't think "poorly" of people who qualify for and use food stamps. Several of my immediate family members have used food stamps at times in their lives to feed their children. If I ever need to, I wouldn't hesitate to use food stamps or any other available means to keep my daughter fed. I give a few dollars to people on the street corners, or to charities that I respect. I explain my choices to my daughter - that I don't know anyone else's situation, I only know that I help a little when I can and hope that others would do the same if I need it.

Wouldn't life be so simple if we could divide people into Good vs. Bad, and each and every choice we make every day into Good vs. Bad. Voila! Life is figured out and our outcomes secured! Do we really believe our financial circumstances are completely and directly determined by this Good vs. Bad thingy!! Wow, the world I live in is not so black and white. I read about people all the time who show questionable ethics and who have millions, and people who have "worked hard" all their lives and are struggling...and vice versa.

I am really struggling with understanding the level of anger expressed about people who are receiving a benefit measured in a few hundreds of dollars, when one CEO after another is taking home "golden parachutes" measured in tens of millions. Please, lets get some perspective, and some compassion for people in need.

We get food stamps. I don't know if my kids know or not. I have never really spoken about it in front of them. We live in an affluent "area" but are in the "affordable housing" apartments. So my kids go to a pretty rich school. In fact, ONLY our apartments go to the school....everyone else is in houses.
I am not hesitant to talk to other parents because of our money. I AM because of my weight...but that's a whole nother story. Moms judge because of THAT all the time.
It's not like I go up and say, "Hi! My name is L. and we receive food stamps!"
You are kind of all over the place in your post...I do that a lot too. :) But, to answer your specific question, no. I don't judge.
L.

I don't understand the connection between your previous issue - the rude social worker - and food stamps.

I also don't understand how living in a particular area effects how you obtain mental health care? That makes no sense to me. Unless the only place available to you is your county mental health facility. But even then, once your husband was incarcarated and your children stressed due to this event, your pediatrician should have been able to make a referral for you based on that. I think perhaps you don't understand your own health care system and/or your own insurance.

Perhaps a call to your insurance company could help you figure it out so you're not at the mercy of the "system" or "rude" social workers.

I have always told my kids exactly how I feel about public subsidy. They have a right to know where much of our income goes. That is not to say that in some cases it isnt perfectly justifiable. But I think it is ridiculous that 1 out of every 4 children in this country are fed by the public.

First, I do not think poorly of people who need food stamps. That being a given, I do not reflect that opinion to my son.

Even if I did, I think it's more beneficial for kids to learn that hard work has its rewards, both in the work itself and in the ability to care for ourselves. Not only that, it's important not to judge aloud what another person's situation might be. No one really knows except them. If I have an unfavorable opinion about someone, I generally keep it to myself. My kid shouldn't have to make sense of the misfortunes of the world. I grew up with a very bitter mother who always assumed the worst of others and it was a habit I cognitively had to change in myself years ago.

Overall, I do look for common ground. While I grew up poor and went to some pretty lousy schools, my son goes to a school that is mostly attended by middle-to-upper class families, some of which are so well off, honestly, I really can't relate to some of their complaints (those pesky country club fees!) or experiences;however, I really strive to keep in mind that we are all trying to be good parents, and that's how I try to connect. We're all here for the kids.

When it comes to panhandling here in Portland, we usually chose to donate money to the local mission/transition projects and also give money to the local street paper vendor (they buy the paper for 25 cents and sell it for a dollar) and buskers, who are using their talents to earn tips. If I see a homeless person with children, we usually buy food to give or give them some money. While they might not be my responsibility, I also feel that I cannot be the person who looks away. Those kids exist, even if their parents made poor choices or have fallen on hard times.

I didn't read your other question, but will just say this: we all have bad days; we all deal with assumptions from time to time. Go on being the person you want to be and hopefully modeling tolerance to your own kiddos. That is all we can do.

I was on section 8 (rent assistance) as well as on a sliding scale for child care many years ago with my first daughter. I worked hard and I mean hard to get off of both of them. I used store coupons and shopped great deals to give my daughter what she needed as well as what she wanted, when I could. But, I went to school and worked a second job or overtime when I could to make things work.

I am now married with 2 incomes. I am very thankful and never forget where I came from. When the daycare that she went to was open, I used to donate via United Way to them. This was in hopes that another child could go to that preschool while his/her parents worked to get ahead.

The same goes for the YMCA. I am holding on to their donation form and as soon as I have some extra money, I intend to send enough to send a child to summer camp.

At the same time, my (younger) daughter wants me to give the man on the corner money too. They are on every corner and in some instances, it is very obvious they are working the corner. They take shifts. I tell her I can't because I don't have enough money for everyone, but I do donate to charity in my own way.

Yes even though I used the system for some time, I do feel there are people who work the system. I work in a public service capacity and we have criteria that people must meet when they ask for assistance. Often it works, but sometimes people get their way even though I feel they are working it.

So to answer your question, I feel strongly about my opinion, my way, or my values. I do teach that to my daughter. I am certain some people will feel it is judgmental, but soon she will form her own opinion.

I don't fault anyone for using services justifiably. If you qualify, then take it! I am not talking about generations of family on welfare who teach their children nothing about self respect and initiative. I am talking about people who have at one time paid taxes or married to someone who does and they need some help. When I would question my parents why people lived or did things differently, they usually answered in a very negative way which I would sometimes repeat and then be ill received. Don't do that to your kids people!!

I find it hilarious that people assume foodstamps are "handouts". If I have a job and the government takes taxes out of my paycheck... How is it wrong for my family to receive a few hundred a month to make sure our children are fed a *good* diet?? Healthy food is more expensive, ya know. Taxes are *community* funds. They are divided up as necessary. And if *I* pay my part, then yes I do believe I am entitled to receive help. That being said, many people receive assistance when they really just need to make better financial choices. Like having a cheaper/older vehicle or renting a smaller home. It's not so much judgement as it is reality. But then again, if the government regulated foodstamps better, we wouldn't have this problem. When they calculate your income they go off of gross. And the only expenses that count are rent/mortgage and utilities. It's not a really accurate way to determine what a family has and needs.

People were just as judgmental back then as they are now, it's just back then as soon as you were out of the room your friends would whisper about you behind your back. Now with the advent of internet anonymity they can type it to your face. People always have been and always will be people.

I qualified for and needed the aid of food stamps for about six months in 2010 and my daughter qualifies for the free lunch program currently. I understand what it's like to need to ask for assistance. It's an embarrassing place to be and I long for the day I no longer have to worry about paying my bills or losing the house. I am always 100% honest with people but I never bring up anything about it unless I'm directly asked or the topic is brought up and I feel I have something to contribute to the conversation.

In addition, as someone who was forced to talk to therapists as a child I have to say they didn't help me at all. I felt more supported and "centered" after having an honest talk with my parents than with a stranger they paid to "help me". Therapists are only really a viable mental health resource when you actively choose to be there. Otherwise they are just a money sink, and when you're as close to the line as you appear to be, you'd be better off spending your money elsewhere and do your best to be your kids sounding board.

You can lead a horse to water etc.

Not sure why people think you are not entitled to aid when your husband put you in the position to require it by making a bad choice. I would assume that when you married him, you had no way to predict that he would commit an offense whose consequence was incarceration - unless you are psychic? :)

Although I *try* not to be judgmental about public assistance, I admit it's hard when I drive a 10-yr-old car, shop at resale shops, use coupons and generics, sometimes make my own clothes, cut my own hair and have never had a manicure, and then someone drives up in their brand new luxury car, wearing designer clothes, freshly coiffed hair and sparkling nails and demands their free stuff while talking on their new whiz-bang phone. To me, that person has their priorities skewed and I can't help but think they are bilking the system.

I have had conversations with my child about why Jimmy has an XBox but gets a free lunch. We talk about whether the XBox was a gift from someone else or whether the family feels an XBox is a *need* versus a *want*. In our family, that XBox would be a *want*, after housing, clothes, food, health and education. I realize that other families have different priorities and we discuss that in order to establish fiscal responsibility in my household. We have survived a couple of layoffs in recent years by making sure we have a clear understanding of wants versus needs.

I don't think poorly of someone who needs food stamps. However, I think poorly on someone who made poor financial and life choices. My kids were and are very active in our church. We give to the food pantry here in Houston and our church. I decide the charities that I support and do so.

As for the lunch program, I believe it is a nobel idea with many flaws. Its the old addage, "the few ruin it for the many". That is why you are seeing people upset about food stamps or any type of welfare program. Its frustration because alot of people are hurting but are able to support themselves.

Its the perseption of it. I work really hard and pay alot of taxes. You have someone who isn't working and wants to be a SAHM and can get government assistance. NOT FAIR! That is what it is about FAIRNESS.

As for mental health, I still don't understand why your pedi can't give you a referal. That doesn't make sense to me.

I honestly try my best to not judge anyone. I frequently tell my kids that sometimes we don't understand why people do what they do or why they are in the position they are in etc. But it is NOT our job to judge them, its our job to HELP them if we can. Its our job to encourage and treat everyone with kindness and respect--even if they don't share that view.

As far as the mental health referral, have you told your pediatrician that you are unable to get care without a referral from them? Have you asked them to provide one for you so you don't have to pay cash? I would tell them directly. I am sure they could make a few simple phone calls to clear this up for you. I know the cost of insurance is sky high and there is no reason why you shouldn't get referred.

For the gossip etc : I tell my kids we don't gossip about anyone. I don't think poorly of people who need food stamps. I have been in that position and got out of it etc. Used it for what its there for---But until I have walked a mile in someone's shoes, I have no reason to speak unkindly about them or what they choose to do. There is a price to pay when you get these services like food stamps etc. A stigma is attached and it is really, really heartbreaking to be on the receiving end of ridicule and disgust from other people. I remember going to the grocery store at 2 oclock in the morning so that I could avoid having other customers or cashiers make a big deal about me using a WIC check to buy food for my kids. I had so many countless interactions with others and the grocery staff that it was soooo embarrassing. Now should I have had to go do that in the middle of the night? NO It was wrong, I shouldn't have been treated that way. But I was. So I did what I had to do During that time~ My husband had a job, I had a job etc. but we needed a little help and thats where WIC came in. Many people said :get a job, etc. I have one! We just fell on hard times like a lot of people. I just hope by telling this that others will think before you judge. I really try to make sure that I don't judge others negatively.

Having family with all sorts of needs, I DO NOT think badly of people who use food stamps.

I too think that should not give handouts to immigrants until they become legal citizens.