This Bugs Me, Because I'm Paying for It.

Don't their tax $ pay for it too?
With all the $ given in tax breaks to big business and the wealthy I can't believe something as tiny as the free lunch program for CHILDREN bothers you so much. It's a drop in a HUGE bucket.
That sounds really petty and bitter.

maybe a little. but then when i realize she's divorced, and trying to support 3 kids on 35K, my panties unwad.
i hate government waste, but this barely raises a blip. this is nothing compared to the loopholes extended to fabulously wealthy citizens and corporations.
khairete
S.
ps it's 'she and her ex.'

Maybe this will make you feel better. If her parents are as wealthy as you claim, and if you are as poor as you claim, her parents are paying for it, not you.

See, all better. :)

Do you have any idea what a miniscule part of the overall budget this kind of spending is? Are you also outraged over the billions of dollars taxpayers give to banks, oil companies and other corporations?
This is like being angry at children for taking a penny from the "take a penny leave a penny" dish.
Do your homework and get educated before passing judgement on your friends and their financial situation.

In my area they'd BOTH be below the poverty line.

S... I was listening to NPR a few months back about researchers who'd found that its not the wealthy, not even the upper middle class who keep voting and most outspoken about trying to do away with social services... It's predominantly the poor & lower middle class! Which is just shocking to me... But their findings/line of reasoning goes like this:

No one else should have anything I don't.

I think those programs are there so kids can have food they wouldn't normally be able to afford. The income levels you have to be at for them is basic and equal. If he pays child support she would not qualify for them. When a couple have joint custody they often don't assign child support. So if she's not getting any money from him but the kids live with her during the school days then she should go fill out the paper work so she can get assistance.

It's what those programs are for. If she has wealthy parents then why should she depend on them to support her? Isn't that what we always tell the parents whose adult kids are always asking for help? Tell them no so they can learn to stand on their own 2 feet? They should tell her no so she can learn to live within her means.

I think that perhaps you need to think about how expensive it is with 4 kids to feed lunch to by paying the school costs.

Oh yeah, I can't figure that up because we get free lunch through the school. Our income is not as high as hers, it's more than half her income and we only have 2 grand kids we're raising. We qualify for free lunch.

About half the elementary schools in my town have nearly 100% of the kids enrolled on 100% free lunches. The program is to make sure kids get a full lunch that may be the only meal they get all day. I don't think anyone would say, truthfully say that these kids should go hungry or with less to eat than any other kid.

I know if I had to pay full price I would simply make a peanut butter sandwich for the kids each day. They'd have to do without fresh fruit or fresh veggies at school like they do at home.

So lighten up. Maybe she's getting more for free than you think she should but she qualifies. She has to turn in her income and her divorce stuff so they can establish her income. If hubby isn't paying for the kids lunches perhaps you can blame him instead.

Do you live with her to know her life? 35 thousand isn't a lot to make per year. Especially with 4 kids. Heck even 50 thousand a year isn't a lot! You know when my son went to school in Orlando his entire school got free breakfast and lunch, and many of the schools in Orange County are like that. Maybe her parents pay for vacations, maybe they co-sign her though life so she doesn't live in poverty with her kids. It's not your place to judge who needs free lunches and who doesn't.

I doubt you know every detail of her financial situation. Plus, if she & her ex are working, then *they* are paying for the free lunch program as well. It's not like you are single-handedly paying for her kids' lunches.

Why are you jealous anyway? I doubt you'd want to be divorced and supporting 3 children on $35,000 a year.

All I hear when people complain like this is "wah wah wah wah". I also hate to hear people complain about the salaries other people make, as if it's any of their business. The rich get tax breaks you woudln't like, either, but I suppose it's ok because they are rich?

You know what really gets to me? People who do things like use the word "her" instead of "she". Repeatedly and without cause or apology. It means they didn't pay attention in school and are somewhat poorly educated. The poorly educated don't see things the same way the well educated do, they lack critical thinking skills and a level of diplomacy that would allow them to put themselves in someone else's shoes. Those who eschew decent grammar and syntax think simplistically and don't bother to understand that life is not only what they see with their own two eyes. In other words, if you aren't going to care enough to use the education that was provided to you for free, I don't have to take your concerns seriously enough to believe they come from a good place in your heart. You're jealous and it's so obvious that you might as well have written this post in green letters.

Diana, how much of your tax dollars do you think are going to support this woman?

Out of everything you pay, maybe a fraction of a penny -- and that's not just for her -- if all social welfare programs were eliminated, as in, gone completely, you'd maybe pay ONE CENT less in taxes. But probably not -- that's how little money you're "giving" her.

My sincere and constructive advice to you is to find something else to worry about.

I would rather my tax dollars feed a kid then some of the other horrible things it's wasted on.
I don't see the problem.

Life is not fair.

Somebody should have mentioned that to you already. Sorry I had to be the bearer of bad news.

If she's single and raising three kids on $35K per year then I think in the whole scheme of things this is a pretty silly thing for you to concern yourself with.

She and her husband want the stigma and poor nutrition of a daily government lunch for their children more than they want to scrape together enough money to pack a healthy lunch.

The income numbers you quote are very low to run two separate households so it's not like they are rolling in disposable income. Maybe you should just focus on yourself and if you really want to complain about government waste take a closer look at farm subsidies, foreign "aid", military contracts with private companies, transportation department contracts with only a couple of bids, tax loopholes for big corporations, our ENTIRE healthcare system...

It's annoying, but then what can you do, really?

I don't really see it as a loophole though, 50-50 means he's probably not paying child support and 50k is not a lot of money. I should know, my husband makes 50k and it's tough to live on as a family of 3. I don't know how a man plus 3 kids could do it! I can't imagine living on 35k, and you can't really add both incomes together because I'm sure they live in separate places with separate bills. So really, it's 35k when it's all said and done for both of them.

We're in the middle too, no free stuff for us. Annoying for sure.

So her kids get free school lunch. So what?

You can get upset about it or not, but your response isn't having any impact on the situation, so why bother? Life is hard enough without looking for reasons to be angry or upset about things you can't control. You can't control this, so let it go.

I agree with Gamma G. Your "friend" might be getting more for free than you would like her to get, but if she qualifies, she qualifies. The 50-50 custody likely means she gets no child support, and in most urban areas in this country, household incomes of $50K are not much, and $35K is very low indeed--with four kids, even 50-50, $35K is poverty level in many areas.

It says a lot that you know so many details about her finances. Why are you filling your head with those facts and brooding on it? Maybe it's time to take the energy you're pouring into your anger about her and put it to positive use somehow - perhaps volunteering in a school cafeteria so you can see how much a good lunch benefits kids?

And the fact that her parents are "multimillionaires" means nothing. That does not mean they are giving her one cent of actual cash, that she could spend on school lunch, right now.

I'd sit down and think hard about why you're expending so much of your own mental and emotional energy on this issue when you could be thinking about almost anything else.

Yes, it sucks, but there are always people who work the system to get things for free whether they really need them or not.

While you know their salaries, how much do you really know about their actual financial situation? I can't fathom raising three kids on $35k. If her parents are as rich as they seem, maybe they are the ones paying for the vacations and the big stuff, but they don't help with the every day stuff like food, mortgage, bills, etc.

I totally understand being upset, but it's not going to do you any good and it's not going to change anything. The bottom line is that her salary qualifies her for the program, so her kids get the benefit.

It cracks me up that people are so naive to say "I would never deny a child a free lunch". I bet if you took 50% of these free lunch kids off the system, they wouldn't go hungry.

My best friends brother and SIL are getting a divorce just for the sake of getting *free* stuff for their 4 kids. BTW he makes $125,000, which is way above the median in his area. Thank God my best friend is disgusted by this as much as I am, and she's a democrat....slowly turning to conservative views.

If you took their median income, it looks like she'd still qualify. You wouldn't combine their incomes because they're living and paying for separate housing and such. If she's not falsifying information and were to be audited and found to still qualify then, really, I don't see the problem. It doesn't matter that her parents are rich, that is, until she gets the inheritance.

Is this really about the loophole, or about your jealousy of their financial situation?

The fact is, while it IS wrong for them to be defrauding the system, unless you are willing to report it or say something to them, you being upset about it is just wasted energy.

Oh, Diana... I once knew a woman who did this. She was a former (really, really bad) client; she lived in what most would consider here a very nice neighborhood, had quite enough money to spend on the things she liked.... and she'd talk about taking her kids to the park for the free lunches in the summer. It was like something in her brain was just broken about money.

I grew up poor and we didn't have the free lunch in the park program during summers, but I know how embarrassing it was to be holding the 'other'-colored free lunch card in the cafeteria. So it was somewhat appalling to me that this gal would act like the park summer lunch program was like some kind of fiesta that everyone was welcome to take part in. SURE... they don't force people to get vouchers from DHS or anything, but we always hope one would have the DECENCY not to take from others who are in actual need, not because mom feels entitled and can't be bothered to make a damn sandwich for her kids. ugh!!!

ETA: my post was certainly a knee-jerk reaction to yours. I can understand why you are frustrated.. I think people have really different ideas of what 'poor' is. :( I haven't really thought about the person I mentioned above for years until this post. In any case, all we can do is live our own lives with honesty so we can sleep well at night. If she told you that they (husband and she, colluding) claimed less purposely, I'd be scratching my head too...

Maybe this will help you perspective - since they are both employed, they also pay taxes and have been paying them for as long as they have been working. Their own tax dollars are paying for the lunches now.

It isn't a loophole situation, nor is it gaming the system. There are clear circumstances and guidelines, for which they seem to properly qualify.

Many years ago my husband was laid off from his job for several months. Although we had a house and money in the bank we did take advantage of any subsidies that we qualified for at that time, such as kids camps, sports programs and Y membership. I do not feel guilty having taken them, even though we technically could have paid for these things. The thing is times were tough, and this was one way we could save money without the kids having to go without stuff. We contributed to these programs with our tax dollars for years and years, it was our turn to benefit. Does your friend receive child support on top of the $35 00 a year? If so then she would have to claim that as income. Whether her family has money or not is besides the point.

I understand your feelings - felt the same when I knew my dau/ex sil were scamming the system. (they have a judgment against them - good luck to the state to collect that!)

I raised my 3 on less than $35k a year - and was ALWAYS told I made TOO MUCH to qualify for any help! They counted child support even tho I was NOT getting it - funny, wouldn't have been asking if I was getting that support! Revenge is sweeter when you come out on top in the long run!

I think we all know people who are doing things they shouldn't do...but I have to be honest if I had 3 kids and was only making 35K a year...I would have them on free/reduced breakfast/lunch...if we qualified.

I would be doing everything I could so to stretch every dollar as far as I could...because 35K is not a lot of money to keep four people housed, clothed, and fed.

My parents make good money, but it isn't my money, yeah, they are going to die one day (hopefully not anytime soon, but I can't live on inheritance now).

I guess if you said they were still married and made $85,000 and had their kids on free lunch, then I might get upset...but not over a single mom living on 35K using benefits that she is qualified to use...if I was in her shoes I would choose to feed my kids anyway I could...

I am not certain where you live, but in my current home town and most places I've lived, $35K for a family of 5 (an adult and 4 kids) is below the poverty line. Personally, my older daughter and I lived well below the poverty line for 8 years and she qualified for the free school lunch, but I didn't want to have to face judgement from self-righteous people who resented my child receiving a $3 lunch. So I packed PB & Js and I went without health insurance to pay for her bag lunches. Later, I really regretted that I didn't take the assistance out of fear of what someone else thought about me and my family.

What has happened to "Love thy neighbor?"

Now it is mostly, "Judge thy neighbor," "Resent thy neighbor," "Hate thy neighbor," "Be angry at thy neighbor," "Speak ill of thy neighbor," etc.

How different would this scenario (and the many others like it) look if we stopped judging and started really trying to understand and see people and started owning our own faults and shortcomings and focusing on those instead?

Yes, it sucks but I am from the school of thought that nothing goes by
unnoticed forever. I don't mean by the government but by the grand
scheme of life in general.
It will catch up with them. Possibly in some other way.
Just stay on the straight path & you'll be better off. ;)

I'm with you. I'd report her... If it's 50/50 custody, I don't think it is or should be based on her income alone. If she had 100% custody, it'd be a different story. Their JOINT income is over $85k a year. They are equally responsible for the kids so I think joint income is the key here. Seriously report her.

Yeah, in this case you have every right to judge. That drives me nuts. I totally support programs to make sure kids are getting the food they need, but as parents, when you can feed your own kids thats what you should be doing. Super shady and irresponsible behavior.

Well, I'd question having that type of person as a friend.

There is no such thing as a free lunch.
There will always be those who take, take, take... They work the system. They believe they are entitled to your money. And those who elected our current leaders obviously believe the same way, since our tax dollars are funding it all.
So, check out Benefits.gov - it will blow your mind -- oh and they have the site on a mobile ap so that those who want to scam some benefits can do it with their iPhones. The whole thing makes me crazy.

That frustrates me too, but her kids should not suffer because the parents are ignorant and greedy. Yes, they pay taxes like everyone else, but if EVERYONE ELSE also worked the system for free lunches, our taxes would go up or the system would go away - so the kids who really needed it wouldn't get it.

It's the same as me pinching pennies for groceries standing behind the family buying cigarrettes and using foot stamps for the kids milk, while holding a Coach purse and the newest technology in their hands.

The system is severly flawed. Until it is fixed, this will continue and the American people will be the ones paying for it.

They are divorced. Which means she is SINGLE and caring for 3 kids. On her 35k income. Since it's 50/50 custody, she doesn't get much child support and still has to care for the kids half the time on half the income of her ex. I assume they are not living together so she also has to pay for her housing and bills on her own. Her multimillion dollar parents have nothing to do with it. If she has a house, car and takes 3 vacays like you say, then she is probably maxed out on credit cards also. So instead of judging her and her choices, whether she is taking advantage of the system or not, let the drama go and just be her friend. Or don't. But it's not worth your stress that you are clearly putting into it. Good luck.

I would never want to deny a child a free meal at school because his parents are trying to scam the system. There are a lot of other government programs that irritate me more. Government assistance should be a temporary 'hand up' not a permanent way of life (except for a few circumstances) The current administration seems to glamorize the benefits and make it easy to qualify. Government assistance has been around for years, but the number of people in the programs now are expanding (even beyond the economic downturn) Some people need the help temporarily, but others are just gaming the system and staying on government assistance for generations- why work when you can collect all these benefits? It irritates me more about the delay in getting services for our veterans who have served our country and are trying to work through the red tape at the VA.
I get a sense that people feel legit about getting free services because they see so much government waste in other areas and feel like they deserve some too.

Would I personally be using the free lunch system with my three kids on 35,000 per year? No. If I reduced our spending to bare bones levels (as I have several times) I could pretty easily pack their lunches on that. I've gotten us by for years on way less and never taken a government dollar. We did qualify for medical coverage for two years when we were way below poverty (35,000 does NOT qualify you for any aid in some states), but did not go to the doctor once during those years. During other years we payed oodles of out-of-pocket medical bills (for 3 births!) and skipped all child care options for years to do so. Because no, I don't think anyone else should pay anything for my kids.

I have lots of friends much wealthier than myself. Some of them even have helpful husbands rather than being single parents like me. Some have never been cheated on like me. Some of them probably pull tax scams and such who knows. Some of them have gotten large inheritances and purchased homes in NYC (SO JEALOUS!) Some of them have never worked a day in their lives and have cushy benefits through their spouses jobs but they think "other people" are lazy. Does this get me down? No. I have countless blessings in my life. I have way more than most people in the world. No one is equal.

Sounds like your friend has low character as many people do. But is she a nice person? Is she a good friend to you? Some people have rich parents. You don't have to be alone in the world to qualify for benefits which is too bad when some people have no other security at all. I agree with you. But judging her finances won't get you far.

I can empathize with your position as I do have one friend at this time who is on my last nerve because she's "depressed" about her debt. Meanwhile, she quit her job 2 years ago and never quit going on date nights with her boyfriend who lets her live with him rent free and helps her with EVERYTHING, European vacations, having housekeepers, getting hair done every two weeks, manicures, iPhone, shopping, etc. Her boyfriend is retired and NOT wealthy, so the only way she could possibly be doing all these things with NO JOB is by racking up credit card debt. And then she's depressed about credit card debt. Which is annoying to me since I don't do any of those things because I can't afford to-therefore I have NO credit card debt. But in the end, it's none of my business and I like being her friend.

You have to let it go. You can't control other people, only how you feel about them.

Do I hate people scamming the welfare system when they're actually very comfortable? Yup, every bit as much as I hate multimillionaires and enormous corporations for stealing billions of tax dollars from the middle class with fancy loopholes. Their infractions are MUCH more expensive to society.

Most of the people in our town I see on food stamps in line at the grocery store are white and very very very young with babies (pro-life, conservative, working class area)-many of these teen parents were raised by young single poor working parents. They are not living comfortably on the tiny monthly checks and unhealthy "allowed" foods, and I hope they overcome their situation one day with the help they are getting and that their babies can go through childhood with enough food. Comfortable people jeopardizing this aid with negative stigma because of their scamming need to be ashamed.

But most of all I wish nothing good for the wealthiest 1% hoarding all their dishonestly "earned" money and mega corporations like Wal Mart and McDonalds and countless others maintaining astronomical profits by paying employees so little that they need government aid while working full-time.

Sounds like 3 kids on $35K a year qualifies.

The government only provides this option for a short time. Unfortunately, her kids and all the other students eventually know who gets these 'free' lunches and why they get them. Might be saving her some money now, but not the social embarrassment and stigma that goes with it.

It's a little under the radar, but people like this who don't mind hiding income to qualify for these benefits, will lose a lot of respect from their own friends, family and kids in the long run. As you are now.

It truly sucks when people find and work loopholes in the system...

But I prefer the idea of paying for people who cheat the system to the idea of children who need it going hungry.

It is truly a shame though, and it burns my hiney when I KNOW for a fact people are cheating. (Of course, I agree that appearances can be deceiving, so unless she specifically told you they are taking advantage of the system, I wouldn't assume too much.)

The loopholes are there for a reason. Politicians won't vote to close them because dependency = votes. We need to make it our business and vote OUT the people who continue to block legislation that will close the loopholes.
Until we hold them accountable for trying to destroy the American tradition of self-reliance, it is only going to get worse.

FWIW, like you, I am not against welfare. I am against welfare fraud.

I'm right with you. I like to help others in need and can be very compassionate. Now that my kids are big enough, I want to plan several service family vacations where we go care for children at an orphanage through this wonderful organization (http://abc.eznettools.net/D302506/X326786/volunteers.html). I have a hard time though with victim mentality and entitlement and think a lot of people need to figure out how to manage their finances or life so the rest of us don't have to pick up the pieces. That is why I am a big fan of educaion to help others, the whole teach them how to fish concept that Heifer International employs. I grew up poor, so I appreciate those who helped us out, but I also understand first hand that we were poor because of the poor choices my parents made (they made wonderful choices in many other areas though).

The first few years of my marriage, our combined income was well within the poverty level, but we didn't use any form of welfare or even debt. I just figured that it was up to me to figure out how to pay for our own lives and knew the consequences of not being disciplined and planning ahead from my childhood. We were teased for how strict and tight our budget was. I also would not even have considered having children in those circumstances where I could barely feed myself, and it baffles me when people do. I think it's basic common sense to not have kids until you can afford them both financially and emotionally. I'm not talking about afford gymnastics, piano, vacations, birthday parties and college funds. Kids don't need that to have a good, happy life. I'm talking about basic food, clothing, shelter, stability and love. I understand accidents can happen. But I will say that when I was a newlywed I also used 3 forms of birth control because I knew I was I no position to raise a child and care for it.

So I understand your frustration and agree on principle. But maybe their take is that dad and mom are both paying into the system and will their whole lives, so might as well take advantage of an opportunity to get some of it back to make things not as tight. They are probably paying more in taxes than they take out in free lunch. And one branch of welfare that fully support is helping innocent children and truly disabled who are not capable of caring for themselves. They shouldn't suffer because their caretakers don't meet their needs.